I've turned my back on alchemy

[TheConfusedCaster]

I'm a level 70 warlock who was an herbalist/alchemist from day 1 of WoW's release. Before I turned my back on this profession, I had 375 alchemy, and was an elixir master (for those of you who don't know what that is, it means I ran Black Morass in the Caverns of Time 5-6 times just to get the crystals to finish the quest so that i'd have a chance to proc extra elixirs/flasks).

Basically i've stared from my crappy blues as i've watched others run around in epic shadowweave, battlecast, etc. My tier 1 & 2 sets are tucked away in my bank, so this is pretty ironic that I have to wear blues, whereas even the noobs get these crafted epics.

Alchemy wasn't doing so good, the herbs were selling for more than the actual elixirs due to the skillup demand, even with elixir mastery, I was not making the profit I could have had I sold the herbs raw.

At this point the only benefit of alchemy was the occasional water to air primal for a 5-6g profit, and some elixirs of major shadow power that helped a bit during raids. Today (the day I walked away from alchemy) I actually made a "discovery" of "Flask of shadow fortification", a useless flask that gives you 35 shadow resist and some health regen. I imagine it'd be good for a fight where one needs alot of shadow resist, but to be honest, they weren't selling.

So I left alchemy with a single click. I'm going to be a tailor and get that damn set. I know it's going to cost some gold to level up the tailoring, but i've got 4.2k and i've already hit 212 tailoring. I know the required mats for the shadowweave set and I intend to farm them. I'm keeping herbalism though, as my epic flying mount allows me to actually net some gold from that.

The purpous of this thread? I want to let everyone know how useless alchemy is for making gold, and that if you're a mage/warlock with alchemy instead of tailoring, you're cheating yourself....I learned it the hard way.

[Stigg]

This story is an exact copy of my Mage's career. Got to 70, got to 375 herb/alch, dropped alch for tailoring. Just be prepared for a bit of a grind from about 330-375. Its a devil of a lot of mats. Try and run Mech for some of the Arcanoweave patterns. And good luck!

[MammaMu]

I third this for my 70 mage, 375 herb/alch. The poor gnome doesn't see much playtime anyway these days, but alchemy is definitely a disapointment. The sad thing is I dropped 300 tailoring at TBC release in favour of "all the cool new alchemy recepies that would make me a ton of gold"...After that bitter lesson I tend to do a bit more research ;-)

Having a toon with maxed alchemy is still semiuseful for feeding unlimited pots to alts, but if this mage ever gets some serious playtime again I will drop alchemy for tailoring in a blink.

These days I mostly play a rogue, now at 58 with 300/300 skinning/mining - the gathering profs is still too good bucks on my server to give up. At 70 I will drop skinning for either blacksmithing or engineering...yes, I have a dream, a dream that once again engineering will be restored to the fun and useful profession it once was! ;-)

[wesje]

I make a good 150 to about 500g spending 1hour getting mats and making elixers each day.

The point of this thread aint 'alchemy doenst make gold' , but 'theconfusedcaster doesnt know how to make profit out of alchemy'

Know your basic economics and its ez. Have some marbles and its even better. Spend some tiem and its a breeeeez

[Fenris Ulf]

I think he's bemoaning equipment more than the money aspect. The guy has 4.2k gold after all.

I just discovered the Super Rejeuvanation potion yesterday, a nice pot to have if not necesarily great for healing. I use the alchemists stone so I get more benefit than non users.

I'm leveling up a Shaman LW to help outfit my druids dps set, but for druids alchemy and herbalism is natural. The epic patterns in LW aren't that much of an upgrade from kara gear and pre kara gear, especially for tanks and veterans of many heroics.

I don't know a single caster in the guild that has kept alchemy.

[rgirty]

My wife's mage dropped herbalism for tailoring. Stayed with alchemy.

Why you might say?

She has the major fire pot protection recipe, and the major fire potion offensive recipe.

She has xmute primal earth to primal water (profit 15g per day)
She has xmute primal mana to primal fire (mana are easy to farm)
She has xmute primal water to primal air (kinda, meh esp with earth to water)

Not to mention the alchemist stone, for long fights heavy +dmg casters often need to pot and the +15 all stats scales pretty well if you have all the +hit you need.

Herbalism? nawe...You can farm wizard row or other places and make as much as herbalism provides and not waste a profession on it.

[TheConfusedCaster]

I make a good 150 to about 500g spending 1hour getting mats and making elixers each day.

The point of this thread aint 'alchemy doenst make gold' , but 'theconfusedcaster doesnt know how to make profit out of alchemy'

Know your basic economics and its ez. Have some marbles and its even better. Spend some tiem and its a breeeeez

Sir, i've played WoW from day 1 and I certainly know how to make a profit out of every profession, as I have been all of them at one point in time.

I have herbed my ass off for countless hours and pumped out stacks and stacks of elixirs, but guess what? The raw herbs (atleast on my server, and all of my friends servers) sell for more than the elixirs. Why is this you may ask? Well, many times people buy herbs to pay for their skill-ups in alchemy, hence the demand shoots up and the raw herbs end up costing more than the elixirs.

I have an epic flying mount and I am quite efficient in picking up herbs. An elixir of mastery for example costs 3 terocone and 1 felweed. 20 Terocone on my server goes for about 28-30g a stack. 5 elixirs of mastery here go for about 15g a stack. To get that "150g" on my server, you'd need to make exactly 10 stacks (each stack being 5) of elixir of mastery. Each stack containing 15 terocone, and 5 felweed. 10 stacks of elixir of mastery contain 150 terocone (3 Terocone per elixir, 5 elixirs = 15 terocone, 15 (terocone) X 10 (stacks of elixirs) = 150). That means that you got paid 1g per each terocone. Compare this to your profit had you sold the terocone without combining:

First of all you would have saved 2g (or 1g 80 silver depending on your rep) per 5 imbued vials (20g for 10 stacks), secondly you would have gained an extra 8-10g per stack of terocone used had you sold it raw. Lets look at the numbers had you sold your herbs raw:

Felweed on my server (and the majority of peoples servers that I know) goes for roughly 15-17g a stack, you'd need 50 felweed to make your 10 stacks, so thats 35-40g right there. Now when you factor in the terocone at 28-30g per stack of 20 and sell 150 of it instead of making elixirs, you net roughly 210g. Count in the imbued vial cost, you save 20g. Count in the felweed had you just sold 50 of it instead of elixiring it, and you get a total (terocone + felweed) netting you a whopping 250g, about 100g more than what you would have gotten making elixirs.

Now this may not be the case on your server, elixir of masteries may go for 40-50g! Who knows? But on my server, and the server of everyone I know, herbs sell for more than their finished products, it's unfortunate, but yes it happens. This is just one example using elixir of mastery, but i'm pretty confident I can prove the same with about any other elixir/potion/flask out there.

After being an alchemist on 3 different characters i've come to the conclusion that its main use is for priests/druids etc. to make raiding easier, but definately not for a clear profit. Even with elixir masteries added benefit to proc extra, i've procced x4 a few times and even that was pretty random and didn't do much to scale my profit had I sold the herbs raw.

You may be in denial/shock, I was for awhile too, I didn't want to leave alchemy, but after weighing the pros and cons, and seeing the gold I was missing from dilluting my herbs into elixirs, I got rid of alchemy and actually took a profession that can benefit my class (btw, tailors can make shadowcloth etc. which has a cooldown, and they do make money this way, especially if they find good patterns, so couple that with herbing and it beats herb/alch hands down regardless of herb/elixir prices).



My wife's mage dropped herbalism for tailoring. Stayed with alchemy.

Why you might say?

She has the major fire pot protection recipe, and the major fire potion offensive recipe.

She has xmute primal earth to primal water (profit 15g per day)
She has xmute primal mana to primal fire (mana are easy to farm)
She has xmute primal water to primal air (kinda, meh esp with earth to water)

Not to mention the alchemist stone, for long fights heavy +dmg casters often need to pot and the +15 all stats scales pretty well if you have all the +hit you need.

Herbalism? nawe...You can farm wizard row or other places and make as much as herbalism provides and not waste a profession on it.

Major fire protection potion? Those used to be good in the MC/BWL days, but i've seen those recipes go for 20-30g on the AH. Major "fire offensive"? Are you talking about Elixir of Major Fire Power? That's not rare either. Earth to water? Yeah, pretty useful, I used to use water to air, and that netted me about 5-10g a day, but thats nothing, remember those xmutes have a 24 hour coldown.

Alchemist stone? Yep, useful for long heavy fights if your class can use it, again, i'm not debating alchemys usefulness for tanking/healing etc., just its profit capabilities scaled with what you could have in its place.

Farming wizard row will never amount to the quantity of herbs I can get speeding around on my epic flying mount with 20% increased speed (due to two trinkets) and mithril spurs....yes they stack, i've tested it.

[YamahaGuy]

I agree with you OP. Same on my server.

Stacks of Netherbloom / Terocone / Dreaming glory / Felweed sell FAR MORE than anything you can make with them. If you made an elixir or potion to sell, you just lost money.

IF you sell a stack of 5 for a wee bit more than the cost of the herbs to make them, someone will undercut you and they won't sell. People undercut until the pots are less than the herbs.

Just sell the herbs and get it over with.

I am xmute specialist; it procs maybe 1 extra once a week. Thats 90g a week extra. Thats a little more than 2 of my repair bills (bout 40g if I have a yellow item.) Of couse, my guild asks me to xmute because I am xmute spec, so I dont make money off that either anyway.

Yes yes, I could do earth to water, that would pay... 1/2 of my repair bills for the day. lol.

I have a rare 'haste potion' recipe from shattered halls; I havnt sold 1 yet. I don't know if people even know it exists on my server. Theres never any others in the auction house. I bet no one searches for 'haste potion' either. Im sure rogues and others could use them, but whatever

[rgirty]

Major fire protection potion? Those used to be good in the MC/BWL days, but i've seen those recipes go for 20-30g on the AH. Major "fire offensive"? Are you talking about Elixir of Major Fire Power? That's not rare either. Earth to water? Yeah, pretty useful, I used to use water to air, and that netted me about 5-10g a day, but thats nothing, remember those xmutes have a 24 hour coldown.

Alchemist stone? Yep, useful for long heavy fights if your class can use it, again, i'm not debating alchemys usefulness for tanking/healing etc., just its profit capabilities scaled with what you could have in its place.

Farming wizard row will never amount to the quantity of herbs I can get speeding around on my epic flying mount with 20% increased speed (due to two trinkets) and mithril spurs....yes they stack, i've tested it.

The newest fire protection recipe, new to TBC. Used to absorb the maiden's holyfire and the end boss in heroic ramparts and also commonly used in heroic mech.

The offensive fire power recipe i'm referring to is the recipe that you get from scryer rep, and it isn't common. I have rarely seen it for sale on the AH. Unless you have an individual who can make them for you regularly you will have trouble getting these pots if you can't make them yourself.

The benefit from the alchemist's stone when you hit a health pot after the shade's pyro or when you down a mana pot on the prince is very powerful indeed.

I'm not doubting your profit in herbs, but many have reported and i've seen for myself 7-9 primal mana per hour being farmed. On my server that means 135-160g per hour. I'm not sure how fast you can pick herbs, but I doubt you can surpass that gold per hour farming mark.

By the way if you have been able to get your mithril spurs and riding crop to stack you have accomplished a major feat as blizzard themselves say it isn't possible.

See the link to the blue post on the official boards here:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=79677587&pageNo=1&sid=1

I forgot to mention, transmute earth to water 15g a day profit for me, and potion master spec means more mana pots/health pots for the raid and myself.

Better than herbalism? For me yes.

[YamahaGuy]

The newest fire protection recipe, new to TBC. Used to absorb the maiden's holyfire and the end boss in heroic ramparts and also commonly used in heroic mech.

Common?

That pot requires a primal fire, which is 30g on our AH.

30g potion.

Anyone clicking the [create] button on that one is.... well, crazy.

[Altaris]

Noob time: what is "wizard's row?"

[rgirty]

Common?

That pot requires a primal fire, which is 30g on our AH.

30g potion.

Anyone clicking the [create] button on that one is.... well, crazy.

Did you notice the part where I said we have the primal mana to primal fire xmute?

It takes 5-6 minutes to farm a primal mana, often times this is done just waiting for others to meet you at the summoning stone in cosmo.

Xmute primal mana to primal fire- make pots. Costs you very little time.

You do have the net loss of the 15g you would have made should you have xmuted earth into water instead, but you can sell the pots for 5g each for a net gain of 10g over the earth to water xmute. These only really sell on the weekend, I typically burn my xmute then.

Primal fire on my server is 20g, the pot sells for more than that, and often I keep them for guild use.

It is crazy if you go buy a primal for 30 and make them, I'll give you that.

But the way I do it simply burns an xmute for the day.

To take this a little further, I also use the spellfire cloth tailoring xmute that the mage is spec'd for. 1 primal fire, 1 primal mana = 2 spellcloth. The elemental that comes with this xmute often drops 3 motes of fire which I use to make the scryer fire pot if I need it, if not I save the motes fire/mana and often combine them to make the fire prot pot, or transmute that primal mana eventually into fire..if not using them for the next spellfire cloth xmute.

Wizards row: southeast corner of netherstorm.

[YamahaGuy]

It takes 5-6 minutes to farm a primal mana

Each primal mana can sell for 20g itself. (server specific)

Xmute primal mana to primal fire- make pots

Now you have a primal fire, worth 30g. (server specific)

- make pots.

Assume 1; unless your specced; and even then still a chance to make 1.

You just lost your option of 20g, or 30g sale.

15g you would have made should you have xmuted earth into water instead,

Primal mana 20g
Primal water profit 15g
Total lost: 35g.
Pot: 1

simply burns an xmute for the day

And 35g, with that routine. Or 100g+35g, if you could have procced an extra might/skyfire/earthstorm.

That post, kinda goes with the thinking "If you farm something yourself, it doesnt cost anything".

Yes, it does cost you money, because you didn't haul it to the AH and sell it.

If you farm a primal fire, its worth 30g. (server specific). If you put it in a pot, and used the pot, instead of selling it, in the end of math, it cost you that 30g, you could have sold for.

Then, a look at the examples - 30g pot, for

Maidens holy fire, which can be dispelled+flash heal. No one should die from that unless
A - Twice / Three times in a row on same person
B - Repentance immediately after holy fire (ocasionally a lost player)

End boss ramparts - Decent healer plus people not standing in the fire spots, and a tank that tucks under his belly for the cone attack, taking no damage

Heroic mech - Kite ads.

Kay kay, I know it sounds like im nit-picking.... or... well I am nit picking, but dont mean to... errrr.....

Im just trying to see why people would economically justify downing a 30g potion. =/

Last note, on my server anyway, no one would pay more than 5-10 gold for that potion on the AH.

[rgirty]

Each primal mana can sell for 20g itself. (server specific)



Now you have a primal fire, worth 30g. (server specific)



Assume 1; unless your specced; and even then still a chance to make 1.

You just lost your option of 20g, or 30g sale.



Primal mana 20g
Primal water profit 15g
Total lost: 35g.
Pot: 1



And 35g, with that routine. Or 100g+35g, if you could have procced an extra might/skyfire/earthstorm.

That post, kinda goes with the thinking "If you farm something yourself, it doesnt cost anything".

Yes, it does cost you money, because you didn't haul it to the AH and sell it.

If you farm a primal fire, its worth 30g. (server specific). If you put it in a pot, and used the pot, instead of selling it, in the end of math, it cost you that 30g, you could have sold for.

Then, a look at the examples - 30g pot, for

Maidens holy fire, which can be dispelled+flash heal. No one should die from that unless
A - Twice / Three times in a row on same person
B - Repentance immediately after holy fire (ocasionally a lost player)

End boss ramparts - Decent healer plus people not standing in the fire spots, and a tank that tucks under his belly for the cone attack, taking no damage

Heroic mech - Kite ads.

Kay kay, I know it sounds like im nit-picking.... or... well I am nit picking, but dont mean to... errrr.....

Im just trying to see why people would economically justify downing a 30g potion. =/

Last note, on my server anyway, no one would pay more than 5-10 gold for that potion on the AH.

I substantiated my loss of profit in my post, and each server is specific. If you have the pot and it is easy to make there is no reason you can't use it with your maiden encounter.

Just have each of the healers take one at the beginning of the fight, it lasts two minutes should give them some protection then their pot timer is up should they need it for a mana pot.

20-30g for a pot is small if your raid uses all other pots/elixirs/food buffs and flasks that are wiped away if you do not win the encounter.

I know people are going to come back and say "l2play" but why not give yourself every advantage going into the encounter, is that not what the pots are for?

btw, 3x fire pots for the maiden encounter once a week is a very small amount. It equals about 30 minutes in a good farming session.

If people are going to quabble about 30g, they need to get some better money making tactics. There are 4 daily quests that are very easy to do, it takes me about 35 minutes each day to do them as a holy priest and it yields 50g. That will easily cover my flask+repairs for a nights raiding.

So, making the pot isn't crazy it does not actually *cost me anything, but I do lose profit I would have made should I have sold those mats.

But such is true every single time I run someone through shadow lab, BM, Old Hills.. etc for their attunement. I'll not make the 100+g i would have made farming in that time, however the loss of income is warranted for the instance.

Drop alchemy or herbalism? I'm more inclined to drop herbalism, I suppose the real factor is playtime. I have rare short spurts of extra time and found it more profitable to farm that 15-20 minutes and use alchemy than to do herbalism in the same amount of time.

Yes, I compared both I had herbalism on that toon for over a year. My server is fairly populated with herbalists, the herbs on the auction house aren't that pricey. Pot spec alchemist can save money by buying herbs and making pots vs just buying the pots.

Each do what they will, but when someone in the guild asks "hey I need a primal/air/fire/water for xxx. I can xmute it for them, save them $ and help out the guild. Rather than saying "let me go get some herbs, sell them and buy your primal".

Just my preference, I like to distribute pots/primals to people that need them to advance our cause.

[YamahaGuy]

If people are going to quabble about 30g, they need to get some better money making tactics. There are 4 daily quests that are very easy to do, it takes me about 35 minutes each day to do them as a holy priest and it yields 50g. That will easily cover my flask+repairs for a nights raiding.
.

The whole point of the OP is alchemy profit. The whole point on the primal fire pot is its a ripoff to alchemists making it

Its a waste.

Whether someone does, or does not have, the resources to waste.

I just drank 20g-30g to save me 4k damage once. Not a flask that burns for 2 hours and does more, or a 2 elixir combo. A pot.

Im not gonna start wasting 20g-30g because someone else thinks money is a drop in the hat

Just my preference, I like to distribute pots/primals to people that need them to advance our cause.

A lot of people do. But most would put a primal fire toward a nice crafted item (12 req) or an enchant, or something else good.

The only only only reason I could justify making this potion, is the discovery of a cauldron recipe.

Which could take... hundreds of tries... or a couple tries.

And someone discoverying the recipe doesnt make the potion profitable still for every other alchemist.

[Illiana]

On my server it is very well possible to make a profit on alchemy, just not on all recipes. Take the elixir of fortification for example. Requires two Ragveil, one Felweed and one Imbued vial to create.

One stack of felweed goes for 14 gold on average.
One stack of Ragveil costs 11 gold.

So for 20 Elixir of fortification I need one stack of Felweed (14 gold) + two stacks of Ragveil (2 x 11 gold) + 20 Imbued vials (7.2 gold), so creating one stack costs me 43.2 gold in total.

These elixirs sell for 45-50gold/stack almost every single time, so if I don't get a single proc I will still not have lost any money or maybe even earn 5 gold. From personal experience I'd say I get a " free" elixir every 5 tries, so if I make one stack (20) I will on average get 4 Elixirs for free. If I sell those too, for 2.25 - 2.5 gold a piece, we are looking at a very healthy profit margin!

The same can be said for Adepts elixir (one stack costs 20 felweed @ 14 gold a stack, 20 Dreamfoil @ 14 gold a stack and 20 Imbued vials @ 7.2 gold, so creating a stack of Adepts elixir costs me 35.2 gold), which sells for at least 40 gold/stack on my server.

Elixir of major healingpower is also a moneymaker, as is Elixir of major strength. I tend to stay away from all the recipes requiring Terocone, because that herb sells for way too much in the raw herb form to ever be able to make a profit of using them in an alchemy recipe.

I have made thousands of pots this way, using my own mats and buying mats on the ah cheaply. I have discovered the Flask of fortification, Flask of relentless assault and Flask of mighty restoration recipes now, and those can also proc if you are elixir specced! My guildies get the procs if they bring the mats, and strangers have to decide in advance - I either make their flasks for free and I get to keep any possible procs, or they pay me 5 gold and they can have the procs.

In conclusion, there still is money to be made off alchemy, but it really depends on the server you play on.

[rgirty]

.

The whole point of the OP is alchemy profit. The whole point on the primal fire pot is its a ripoff to alchemists making it

Its a waste.

Whether someone does, or does not have, the resources to waste.

I just drank 20g-30g to save me 4k damage once. Not a flask that burns for 2 hours and does more, or a 2 elixir combo. A pot.

Im not gonna start wasting 20g-30g because someone else thinks money is a drop in the hat



A lot of people do. But most would put a primal fire toward a nice crafted item (12 req) or an enchant, or something else good.

The only only only reason I could justify making this potion, is the discovery of a cauldron recipe.

Which could take... hundreds of tries... or a couple tries.

And someone discoverying the recipe doesnt make the potion profitable still for every other alchemist.

I guess it all comes down to playstyle. Herbalism = make your own gold. Alchemy = make your own gold and help out the guild?

I make fairly decent money from alch, I don't have the time to herb so it makes more sense for myself. Others, may find herbalism better for them I suppose.

[TheConfusedCaster]

The newest fire protection recipe, new to TBC. Used to absorb the maiden's holyfire and the end boss in heroic ramparts and also commonly used in heroic mech.

I see, well i've done heroic mech many times without using that potion, it's the first time i've heard of anyone actually using it for a heroic instance. Maybe some people need it? All the PUGs i've been in didn't. And as Yamaha guy said, it requires primal fire, which imo, is too expensive for a simple pot.


The offensive fire power recipe i'm referring to is the recipe that you get from scryer rep, and it isn't common. I have rarely seen it for sale on the AH. Unless you have an individual who can make them for you regularly you will have trouble getting these pots if you can't make them yourself.

Name of potion please?



The benefit from the alchemist's stone when you hit a health pot after the shade's pyro or when you down a mana pot on the prince is very powerful indeed.

I never doubted that alchemy was useful, but i'm not going to farm herbs simply to do better in a raid, I want to do it for profit. So as I said, if you want to take alchemy for its useful properties in a raid instead of profit, that's fine, I never argued against that.



I'm not doubting your profit in herbs, but many have reported and i've seen for myself 7-9 primal mana per hour being farmed. On my server that means 135-160g per hour. I'm not sure how fast you can pick herbs, but I doubt you can surpass that gold per hour farming mark.

Let me get this straight, you're comparing farming primals to herbing? Well first of all, when you herb you get the chance to also pickup motes of life (which since i'm a tailor, I can use towards making primal mooncloth which sells at 45-50g a piece). Not only do you get motes of life, but you have a chance to pickup Fel Lotus's which sell pretty good as they are required for the new flasks.

If you get into picking netherbloom, you can actually get motes of mana and essentially farm primal mana while herbing. I can farm primals pretty fast too, my lock has full shadowweave set, a few epics and some good rares, but I choose herbalism because the profit is far higher. You see, in order to get profit out of killing a mob, you need the work of actually taking down its life, whereas with herbalism, you merely have to open a node, and to get to these nodes with an epic flying netherdrake is really easy. The only exception where herbalism slows down is when an area is being camped and theres too many people herbing, but that's a temporary situation.


By the way if you have been able to get your mithril spurs and riding crop to stack you have accomplished a major feat as blizzard themselves say it isn't possible.

I took the skyshatter (sp?/breaker?) quest. I outflew the first handful of competitors, then I had to take on the boss. 10-15 times he flew out of range and the quest failed because I couldn't keep up with him. At the time I had a riding crop. I asked around and everyone told me the same thing, that spurs/carrot doesn't stack with riding crop, but I didn't care. I went out and put some spurs + carrot, and i'll tell you this, I never had that problem again. He did not go out of range once, and I was taking the same path, I also noticed a speed improvement.

So perhaps I have indeed accomplished a "major feat", but i'll guess its merely realizing that not everything Blizzard says is true. Perhaps their statement was "psychological warfare" to get us to not use multiple mount increasing items, because they were too lazy to patch it.




I forgot to mention, transmute earth to water 15g a day profit for me, and potion master spec means more mana pots/health pots for the raid and myself.

Better than herbalism? For me yes.

With alchemy gone, I have tailoring, shadow tailoring spec. I can make 2 Shadowcloth every four days. That means that all I need is 1 bolt of imbued netherweave 1 primal shadow, and 1 primal fire, and I got 2 Shadowcloth. I get an extra one because i'm specced shadow tailoring. Thats about 100g, but its on a 4 day cooldown. Thats a longer cooldown than your primal earth, but you only make 60g every 4 days with your transmute there.



Did you notice the part where I said we have the primal mana to primal fire xmute?

It takes 5-6 minutes to farm a primal mana, often times this is done just waiting for others to meet you at the summoning stone in cosmo.

Xmute primal mana to primal fire- make pots. Costs you very little time.

Primal mana on my server sells roughly for the same as primal fire. I'm not sure what you're talking about with primal mana being "easier to farm", as far as I know, all motes have the same droprate, and they are random.



You do have the net loss of the 15g you would have made should you have xmuted earth into water instead, but you can sell the pots for 5g each for a net gain of 10g over the earth to water xmute. These only really sell on the weekend, I typically burn my xmute then.

Transmuting 1 primal mana for 1 primal fire for 1 potion? Including the fact you're losing gold by doing this, it just seems like unnecissary work, unless you're using it for need instead of profit.


To take this a little further, I also use the spellfire cloth tailoring xmute that the mage is spec'd for. 1 primal fire, 1 primal mana = 2 spellcloth. The elemental that comes with this xmute often drops 3 motes of fire which I use to make the scryer fire pot if I need it, if not I save the motes fire/mana and often combine them to make the fire prot pot, or transmute that primal mana eventually into fire..if not using them for the next spellfire cloth xmute.

I've talked to a guy on my server who is one of the best mages around. He's got the 350 engineering goggles, full crafted epics, and a ****load of epic tailoring recipes. He shares my opinion that spellcloth transmutes are a waste of gold if you're doing it for profit. Why? Because the combination of primal fire + primal mana + imbued netherweave bolt will sell more alone than combined. Basically, you're not getting a profit out of it. If you're making two, that's fine, but since you're losing all of that profit to begin with, you're really only getting the gold for one.

Shadow tailoring makes more imo, because while it requires a primal fire too, the other primal thats required is a primal shadow, which is very common off demons and sells for 5g in the AH.



I substantiated my loss of profit in my post, and each server is specific. If you have the pot and it is easy to make there is no reason you can't use it with your maiden encounter.

Just have each of the healers take one at the beginning of the fight, it lasts two minutes should give them some protection then their pot timer is up should they need it for a mana pot.

20-30g for a pot is small if your raid uses all other pots/elixirs/food buffs and flasks that are wiped away if you do not win the encounter.

I haven't seen you substantiate the loss of profit had you gone herbalism/tailoring and had an epic mount to pick herbs, this was my main argument, alchemy doesn't make as much as this combo.

As far as using that expensive potion in a fight, I've never had to. Using flasks/elixirs for raids is useful, but did you know theres a repeatable quest for flasks now in blades edge?


I know people are going to come back and say "l2play" but why not give yourself every advantage going into the encounter, is that not what the pots are for?

btw, 3x fire pots for the maiden encounter once a week is a very small amount. It equals about 30 minutes in a good farming session.

I'm not going to "give myself every advantage" if it's going to hit my pocket book that hard. So each primal fire (i'm assuming) makes 1 pot? You make 3 thats 60 gold. And theres no way someone is going to be able to indefinatey farm 3 primal fires in 30 minutes, the motes are random, not consistent.


people are going to quabble about 30g, they need to get some better money making tactics. There are 4 daily quests that are very easy to do, it takes me about 35 minutes each day to do them as a holy priest and it yields 50g. That will easily cover my flask+repairs for a nights raiding.

I think if someone is going to dismiss 30g, they don't realize that it's going to hurt their profit in the long-run. There's more than 4 daily quests, I know them all, and even doing these you are wasting money considering the amount you could be earning had you used the time to herb. I do some too occasionally then I go back to herbing.



So, making the pot isn't crazy it does not actually *cost me anything, but I do lose profit I would have made should I have sold those mats.

And this is the entire reason I made this post essentially.


But such is true every single time I run someone through shadow lab, BM, Old Hills.. etc for their attunement. I'll not make the 100+g i would have made farming in that time, however the loss of income is warranted for the instance.

Instances don't warrant a loss of income, atleast not for me. I'm not prepared to lose gold over an instance.


Drop alchemy or herbalism? I'm more inclined to drop herbalism, I suppose the real factor is playtime. I have rare short spurts of extra time and found it more profitable to farm that 15-20 minutes and use alchemy than to do herbalism in the same amount of time.

If you have no extra time, then that's another story altogether that has nothing to do with the professions, but merely the fact they are not being used to their full potential due to lack of time.

I never dropped alchemy for herbalism, I dropped alchemy for tailoring and kept herbalism instead of dropping herbalism for tailoring and keeping alchemy.


Yes, I compared both I had herbalism on that toon for over a year. My server is fairly populated with herbalists, the herbs on the auction house aren't that pricey. Pot spec alchemist can save money by buying herbs and making pots vs just buying the pots.

I was an elixir master, and the same formula is used for potion masters. It's a very random chance. You can get a x4, a couple x2's, or you could make 100 and get nothing. The "mastery" proc is not consistent.

You are saying the herbs on your server sell for less than the potions/elixirs? That's surprising, since on my server and all of my friends servers, herbs sell for more as they are used for skillups when leveling alchemy, as well as other tradeskills. This is the first time i've ever heard of herbs selling for less than the finished product, and that seems like a very strange situation considering that your server is "fairly populated".


Each do what they will, but when someone in the guild asks "hey I need a primal/air/fire/water for xxx. I can xmute it for them, save them $ and help out the guild. Rather than saying "let me go get some herbs, sell them and buy your primal".

I think this is the defining difference, you are talking about helping a guild/raid and various uses for pots/elixirs in instances, and I am persuing tradeskills solely for profit, save for tailoring which I picked up to make my shadowweave set, and also to get a profit from shadow/primal mooncloth crafting.



On my server it is very well possible to make a profit on alchemy, just not on all recipes. Take the elixir of fortification for example. Requires two Ragveil, one Felweed and one Imbued vial to create.

One stack of felweed goes for 14 gold on average.
One stack of Ragveil costs 11 gold.

So for 20 Elixir of fortification I need one stack of Felweed (14 gold) + two stacks of Ragveil (2 x 11 gold) + 20 Imbued vials (7.2 gold), so creating one stack costs me 43.2 gold in total.

These elixirs sell for 45-50gold/stack almost every single time, so if I don't get a single proc I will still not have lost any money or maybe even earn 5 gold. From personal experience I'd say I get a " free" elixir every 5 tries, so if I make one stack (20) I will on average get 4 Elixirs for free. If I sell those too, for 2.25 - 2.5 gold a piece, we are looking at a very healthy profit margin!

The same can be said for Adepts elixir (one stack costs 20 felweed @ 14 gold a stack, 20 Dreamfoil @ 14 gold a stack and 20 Imbued vials @ 7.2 gold, so creating a stack of Adepts elixir costs me 35.2 gold), which sells for at least 40 gold/stack on my server.

Elixir of major healingpower is also a moneymaker, as is Elixir of major strength. I tend to stay away from all the recipes requiring Terocone, because that herb sells for way too much in the raw herb form to ever be able to make a profit of using them in an alchemy recipe.

I have made thousands of pots this way, using my own mats and buying mats on the ah cheaply. I have discovered the Flask of fortification, Flask of relentless assault and Flask of mighty restoration recipes now, and those can also proc if you are elixir specced! My guildies get the procs if they bring the mats, and strangers have to decide in advance - I either make their flasks for free and I get to keep any possible procs, or they pay me 5 gold and they can have the procs.

In conclusion, there still is money to be made off alchemy, but it really depends on the server you play on.

Your situation is a different one. I was not lucky enough to make a discovery except with "Flask of Shadow Fortification" which I believe to be to this day one of the most useless flasks in the entire game.

You discovered flask of fortification? Congrats, you can indeed make a profit out of that, but that's IF you discover it. I'm not counting discoveries into my decision because i'm talking about alchemy as a profession. If someone chooses alchemy, they are not going to have flask of fortification, mighty restoration, or relentless assault, save for if they are lucky to discover it. I myself go off consistency when it comes to profiting from professions, and discoveries are not consistent.

With that said; From what I understand, flasks require fel lotus which drops at random off herbalism. So if you make enough from the flask that you can cover the cost of buying fel lotus off the AH per flask, then you've found a profit. But as I said, my decision was best for me because I did not have any worthwhile discoveries.

As far as elixir of major healing power and adepts, i've seen those go as low as 5g a stack on my server because of the low herbs that are required to make them. Maybe people are just smarter on my server? lol I don't know, but thats just the way it is here. If I had 8-10 discoveries and was on a server where adepts/healing power sold for a good price, i'd keep alchemy, but i'm not, and I haven't :)

[Beruen]

Name of potion please?

Elixir of Major Firepower, +55 to fire damage, takes two motes of fire, an ancient lichen, and an imbued vial. No clue what it sells for on my server, as I never tried.

Primal mana on my server sells roughly for the same as primal fire. I'm not sure what you're talking about with primal mana being "easier to farm", as far as I know, all motes have the same droprate, and they are random.

I can't say who's on the server with more normal pricing, but on my server, mana goes for 3-10G less, depending on the time of week. As for being easier to farm, I'm not sure why, but while I'm lucky to get 3-4 primal fire in an hour of farming, I consistently get 5-7 primal mana an hour.

As far as elixir of major healing power and adepts, i've seen those go as low as 5g a stack on my server because of the low herbs that are required to make them. Maybe people are just smarter on my server? lol I don't know, but thats just the way it is here. If I had 8-10 discoveries and was on a server where adepts/healing power sold for a good price, i'd keep alchemy, but i'm not, and I haven't :)

I think this is the real point. Different servers, different economies. As long as I stock up on mats during the week rather than on the weekend, I can buy mats to make spellcloth on the AH, sell the result on the AH, and still make a nice profit, without being spellcloth specialized. Same with shadowcloth. In fact, since the cloth sells for more, i make more off the spellcloth, since Primal Shadow has hit 7G a primal on my server since the drop for motes of shadow got changed. Fortunately, I heard of the change before it went live, and stocked up on primal shadow back when it was still under 2G each. I don't know how well mooncloth sells, because I'm rather addicted to storage space, so all my mooncloth production that doesn't go to healing gear is going to mooncloth bags for the forseable future.

Personally, I don't see alchemy as being a moneymaker, but I'm on a server where even felweed sells for silly amounts. Different servers, radically different economies.