New Char Advice

[garion]

So i have zilch exp on world of warcraft, i do have many years of D2 under my belt though (not that it matters =P)....

so i was thinking about making either a blood elf or undead:

rogue: with herbalism/alchemy

warlock: w/ tailoring/enchanting

i was hoping to get some pros and cons...better professions for those classes...and which class is a more ideal match-up with which race (i was hoping to make one of each race and once of each class)....

perhaps even some general tips on how to do my talent tree for exp/lvling and then later respec (not sure if thats a good idea)?

so far after all my reading it seems that specing a rogue with combat with swords is a nice way to go about lvling...not sure if this is true...but it would be great to hear some feedback from people who have vastly more exp than i....

thanks in advance!

-g

[Blakbow]

Well, I can't really say much about how you should spec your rogue. I've heard that combat swords is good for lvling, but I use a system more stemmed in subtlety/assassination becuase i use as much stunlocking i can when grinding to get myself behind my mob to utilize backstab whic atm is one of my more powerful moves, and the imp. stealth features allow me to get in closer, and i also use two tigerbane's for the stack ap when grinding leather.
I chose skinning/lw on my main to make my own gear, but still need mats that alch produces.
As far as just making money with prof.s, I can make decent with LW, but on my other I have skiining/mining and seem to make more by ah mats than actual products. Of course it all depends on your servers economy, but I usually get 1 1/2g per 20 stack of copper/bronze bars, and about 1g for 20 stack of heavy/thick leather.
The dual tigerbane setup allows me to grind beasts easier which helps with my prof. as well as just general lvl grinding, although it has no bonus on humanoids.
The first respec is only a gold, and even if you go combat, you'll want to at some point pick up imp. eviscerate from the assassination tree, and picking up the basic stealth stuff as well as a few nice talents in subtlety tree gets you down to serated blades, which ignores amounts of enemy armor, and will open up hemo, which i like for its damage increase as well as being one of the least costly moves i have energy wise which allows me to stack 5 combo points rather quick, but doesn't do quite as much damage as other moves.
Rolling with a rogue picking up imp. gouge is definantly a big help, as well as imp. backstab. Picking up a few of the basic things from each tree, at least imo, is a good way to start, and then decide which tree you want to go deep into.
Swords are definantly slower and do alot more damage, and they say a slow main hand and fast off hand is ideal, although the con in that is with a sword in main hand instead of dagger you lose your ambush, backstab, and certain other abilities requiring a dagger in the main hand.
My suggestion at lower lvls is to use daggers, swords, and even maces, and try to keep the lvl up in either so later when you decide which works best for you you won't have to start from scratch. There's a right combo for you and it may not be what is considered the normal way.
I will say about herb./alch, that while you'll be able to make some gold selling the raw mats, most people only tip so much for alch combines if they provide the mats, which quite alot do.
If you think you'll need alot of pots then alch is a good thing to go into, but if you're looking for something to make money then you may want to go with two gathering skills.
This is just a long winded opinion, but hopefulyl you find something in their that makes you think or gives you an idea of something that might work for you.
I'd also say, from experience, ghostly strike is not all its made up to be, and i plan to respec to get rid of it. Evasion popped at the right time is enough, as ghostly strike is only about 5-10 seconds, and evasion is easily twice as long and i usually have my mob/horde mostly dead by then. Best to throw that point into opportunity or initiative on your way to serrated blades and hemo, but thats just me.
Both undead and BE have their advatages. Blood Elves have mana tap and silence, which is good to wear down casters mana and limit their attacking.
Undead have will of the forsaken, to break fear effects. Nothing sucks worse than being in a fight and having the upper hand, then getting feared while they recast or heal.

[Gorny]

Whatever you do, don't roll Horde and get on Llane.

If you absolutely have to roll Horde, get on Llane so I can ... erm give you a warm welcome.

[Zendarin]

So i have zilch exp on world of warcraft, i do have many years of D2 under my belt though (not that it matters =P)....

so i was thinking about making either a blood elf or undead:

rogue: with herbalism/alchemy

warlock: w/ tailoring/enchanting

i was hoping to get some pros and cons...better professions for those classes...and which class is a more ideal match-up with which race (i was hoping to make one of each race and once of each class)....

perhaps even some general tips on how to do my talent tree for exp/lvling and then later respec (not sure if thats a good idea)?

so far after all my reading it seems that specing a rogue with combat with swords is a nice way to go about lvling...not sure if this is true...but it would be great to hear some feedback from people who have vastly more exp than i....

thanks in advance!

-g

As far as how to spec your rogue the best advice I can give is to read Osiris guide at http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dt4f32p_4dcj7jt.

Most rogues agree that combat swords is the way to go but there is some disagreement on what order to do things. I had started taking Assas. talents first (for 18 points) and then speccing through the combat tree. At lvl 35 I read Osiris guide and respecced to the build he suggests for lvling and it made a HUGE difference. I am loving it.

Sneaking up on MOBS and pickpocketing them then using a cheap shot to incapacitate em while I slice and dice makes me feel very rogueish (is that a word?) as well as going through mobs like they were swiss cheese.

Now as far as professions go - you will get some disagreement here. Many people will tell you take gathering professions until you are high level as you need them to make money whereas crafting professions cost you money. I am probably one of the few who disagree with this. I do tailoring/enchanting on my priest ( he is making 10 slot bags at lvl 20 - can't advance any further in tailoring till he gets to 35) and skinning/leathercraft for my rogue (I am wearing several pieces I have crafted myself and have yet to find anything better from quests/drops).

I have made enough to buy my mounts just trading on the AH with my AH alt. I also have an alt that has mining to provide cash flow if needed, but so far I never play him as I haven't needed it. For me skinning/leatherworking has been an ideal fit for my rogue.

[Dhoum]

In terms of race, I would recommend Undead for your Rogue. Will of the Forsaken is good for any class but Eternal Breath is more useful for Rogues than anyone else because of the movement speed reduction you get whilst in stealth. Things like Naga and Murlocs are far easier to find on their own underwater than on the shore (where they tend to stick together more) and being able to function for a long time underwater has served me extremely well in the past.

As far as talents are concerned, I've gone with Subtlety/Assassination if for no other reason that I have a fondness for backstabbing! If you plan on soloing for the most part then Combat swords is clearly the most efficient (if un-roguely to my mind) but if grouping then I'd argue that Assassination/Subtlety is better both in terms of utility and numbers (because in a group, chances are you're always behind the mob).

[Zendarin]

Its good to keep both swords and daggers maxed as you level but this is easilly accomlished. If you are combat swords you want a high damage range sword in MH (slow is great as that usually means a higher damage range) and a very fast dagger in OH. This will allow both to be max at all times with no problem and is very easy to outfit yourself with.

Once you are at end game you can get very fast swords for OH (such as Latros) but at lower levels a decent fast sword is hard to come by so stick with the dagger OH unless you get a very lucky drop.

Combat swords is not only the best build for leveling but lately it is comint out better than or equal to combat daggers as the highest DPS in raids as well. This is one of the hotly debated issues atm but basically when it comes to raiding at end game respeccing is easy and the DPS meters are pretty close for the 2 styles so you can try them both and see which suits your personal playstyle better.

[garion]

hey thanks for all the tips guys...looks like ill have to go throug osiris's guide again (and again when im actually playing...since i don't have all the terms/locations/concepts well cemented just yet)....

but perhaps i will go with the rogue and possibly herbalism/alchemy or skinning/leather working....

and i am leaning towards the undead....

i still don't understand all the different moves/attacks they have in the game

opening moves that earn combo points...(back stab/ambush)
then there are moves that stun (cheap shot/kidney shot/ gouge)
and end moves (evicerrate?...not sure what the others are)

i guess its one of those things that i will get down while playing (im very excited!)....im thinking about putting this on a laptop i have yet to buy so that i can play in at my girlfriends (wi-fi...hope that isn't an issue with WoW)

in anycase i will try to follow osiris's guide for lvling and skill distribution too...(combat with sword i guess until im at a higher lvl and possibly respec when i understand the game better...but in the mean time i let the pros blaze the trails for me =P...)

thanks again!

***GORNY!!!! you're on both sites?!?...im guess ash is here too...he also warned me about a warm welcome on his server too...lol :wink2:

[Blakbow]

A friend of mine is trying to get me into the practice of switching weps in combat, but its a bit tricky and takes time to get down right. Sounds simple, you open with main hand dagger, oh sword, open up with cs, then backstab, then stunlock with gouge or KS, and switch to swords, at first it takes up valuable dps time, so you need to practice on lower lvl mobs to get your swithc down fast. Of course lower lvl mobs is a relative terms, and should usually just be a green a few lvls lower than you, 1 or 2, so you don't kill it before you can get the pattern down.
I'm still learning this, but it seems effective if you can get your speed and accuracy of switching down.
This allows me to open with my big main hand dagger moves like BS, then switch and do massive damage with my main hand sword. This way I don't lose any moves that require main hand dagger, or high damage from slow main hand swords.

[garion]

ah...so you can open up with daggers to get that major opening dmg (is dmg to a mob onto all the enemies or just that one monster in the mob you open with?)

and then switch to swords and use skills like sinister strike (im still reading osiris's guide...its pretty awesome..apparently there are multiple guides!)

but there is a limit on switches right? you can probably only carry two sets of gear, so one with dual daggers? and one with dual swords?

does anyone use a bow/ranged weapon (ive read they are good for pulling...but this sounds more like in groups rather than solo)?

thanks!

[Gorny]

Yes, Ash is here too.

He plays Alliance on some other server - forget which. He (I think?) plays Horde on Llane, Aerojonesey and Maplebarb are here too. Most of the DII OTF crowd is on Llane, Alliance side.

Anyways, if you come to Llane, I can set you up with some starting cash and a few potions regardless of which Faction you are on.

[Blakbow]

ah...so you can open up with daggers to get that major opening dmg (is dmg to a mob onto all the enemies or just that one monster in the mob you open with?)

and then switch to swords and use skills like sinister strike (im still reading osiris's guide...its pretty awesome..apparently there are multiple guides!)

but there is a limit on switches right? you can probably only carry two sets of gear, so one with dual daggers? and one with dual swords?

does anyone use a bow/ranged weapon (ive read they are good for pulling...but this sounds more like in groups rather than solo)?

thanks!

Actually, when you open with a hit on a mob its just that mob,so you'd have to reuse daggers to open with cs/backstab on another mob.
What I've been doing is simply using a dagger/sword setup, opening with the dagger in the main hand to use cs and then backstab to do as much opening damage as i can. I usually don't have time to switch my weps out before cs expires after i use bs, so i had been using gouge to give myself time to manually switch, as i don't know about creating a macro to fascilitate the switch instantly, but am planning to buy a mainhand sword and attach it to one of the side bar hotkeys so i can click switch it on mid fight, which will work even better, and if i can condense my main hotbar so i can put it on a number key it'll be even quicker/easier switch.

As far as bows for pulling i use one all the time when i need to break up groups. Its not always easy and i do sometimes pull 2 or even 3 mobs from a group of 5 or 6 if i'm not careful about my positioning, but it is extremely useful when there's a chest/node/quest item surrounded by a large group and i'm solo. Plus, I've yet to see any green thrown weps with stats on them myself. So getting a good bow that has stm. or agi. on it is a great item to have for solo pulling, as usually in a group rogues do cc/dps and don't usually pull.

[garion]

Yes, Ash is here too.

He plays Alliance on some other server - forget which. He (I think?) plays Horde on Llane, Aerojonesey and Maplebarb are here too. Most of the DII OTF crowd is on Llane, Alliance side.

Anyways, if you come to Llane, I can set you up with some starting cash and a few potions regardless of which Faction you are on.

oh thats awesome...some familliar faces on llane....do you guys play pretty regularly? (if thats the case maybe ill start a char to play with you guys from time to time...a nightelf of sorts (mage or hunter perhaps?)

*so how is the wolfen and oneils empires here? /wink

Actually, when you open with a hit on a mob its just that mob,so you'd have to reuse daggers to open with cs/backstab on another mob.
What I've been doing is simply using a dagger/sword setup, opening with the dagger in the main hand to use cs and then backstab to do as much opening damage as i can. I usually don't have time to switch my weps out before cs expires after i use bs, so i had been using gouge to give myself time to manually switch, as i don't know about creating a macro to fascilitate the switch instantly, but am planning to buy a mainhand sword and attach it to one of the side bar hotkeys so i can click switch it on mid fight, which will work even better, and if i can condense my main hotbar so i can put it on a number key it'll be even quicker/easier switch.

wait there isnt a button to switch (like diablo2 "W") you literally have to click and drag?...oi...

*thanks for the sequence of opening too :laugh:

[Toxicshadow]

wait there isnt a button to switch (like diablo2 "W") you literally have to click and drag?...oi...

*thanks for the sequence of opening too :laugh:
No hotkey by default, no. However it is possible to make 1 by using macros or addons, although you might need some help with that..

Actually, why don't I just make you a macro? Replace the stuff written in <these> with whatever it says (without the <>s) and it should switch around your weapons, then just drop it on a quickbar and assign a key.
/equip [noequipped:Daggers] <mainhand dagger>
/equip [equipped:Daggers] <mainhand sword>
/equipslot [noequipped:Daggers] 17 <offhand dagger>
/equipslot [equipped:Daggers] 17 <offhand sword>
Oh and "sword" can just as easily be.. well anything but a dagger.

[garion]

oh yeah...i read about these in osiris's guide...macro's...do you have ot type them in outside the game (some txt file or...an in game console?)...

thanks toxicshadow!

i also noticed a addon called rsswapper in the addon section of the forum...but my friend mentioned that add-ons can be a pain when they aren't updated and the game is patched...so ill probably just forgo the add-on for now...and maybe try it out later on (when i have a bit more experience =P)

im really excited about this game...!

[Toxicshadow]

Well, your macros are stored in an out-of-game .txt file so I suppose it's possible to create them there, too. A much easier alternative, however, would be to open your in-game chat and entering "/m" - just those 2 signs - /macro might work as well but why borther? Well anyway this'll open the Macro Interface which will let you create and edit macros in a much more user-friendly enviroment (if you use the .txt you'll have to know all sorts of tags, in here you just need to know chat commands).

Oh and addons are indeed a pain. What's gained compared to what's lost makes them not at all worth it, yet many high lvl players use them simply because they need what's gained (a few milliseconds here and there, all adding up) more than what's lost (20 frames per second if you got too many, as I do, as well as several hours after major patches trying to get your addons working again). If you stay away from them 'till lvl 60+ you'll actually be able to feel the difference, and until then learning the hard way will let you understand the game better.

[Zendarin]

Well, your macros are stored in an out-of-game .txt file so I suppose it's possible to create them there, too. A much easier alternative, however, would be to open your in-game chat and entering "/m" - just those 2 signs - /macro might work as well but why borther? Well anyway this'll open the Macro Interface which will let you create and edit macros in a much more user-friendly enviroment (if you use the .txt you'll have to know all sorts of tags, in here you just need to know chat commands).

Oh and addons are indeed a pain. What's gained compared to what's lost makes them not at all worth it, yet many high lvl players use them simply because they need what's gained (a few milliseconds here and there, all adding up) more than what's lost (20 frames per second if you got too many, as I do, as well as several hours after major patches trying to get your addons working again). If you stay away from them 'till lvl 60+ you'll actually be able to feel the difference, and until then learning the hard way will let you understand the game better.


I have to very strongly disagree with that. I started using 2 addons very early (lvl 10) and they have made a WORLD of difference. The most important one is Titan Panel. This adds 2 very narrow strips to your UI - one at the top and one at the bottom - which has info such as map coordinates, how much room you have in your bags, current amount of money, experience per hour this session, % of damage to your gear (so you always know if you need to stop and repair without having to open anything) how much time it will take to level at your current rate of exp. gain, and a bunch more information. Hovering your mouse over any of these items will expand to give you even more info.

If you download the UI manager (right from this site) it makes things VERY easy. It will find the addon, download it, install it, and keep it up to date for you. Then the only thing you have to do is remember to turn on your addons at your character login screen (you will find an addon link in the bottom left corner once you have an addon installed).

You never need to do anything else and if you ever disable them you will wonder how you ever lived without them.

The other addon I use is Auctioneer which helps you get a feel for how much items are worth on the AH - also tells you how much a vendor will pay for each item whenever you hover your mouse over that item.

edit> btw once I learned how to use Auctioneer and started doing regular scans in the AH it has helped my bank alt to amass over 100 gold in 2 weeks time by buying stuff which was listed way below market value and reselling.

This has enabled me to have crafting options on all my characters instead of gathering professions and still be able to afford a mount at lvl 40. Example - I just picked up a stack of growth potions for 16 gold buyout. I could tell from Auctioneer that the last 38 times this potion has sold on AH it has been for 7 gold EACH. So I bought the stack, there was no other growth pots up so I have no competition, and immediatle relisted 2 of them individually for 7g each. They sold by the next day so I have made back 14 of the 16 gold I spent and still have 18 more potions to put up for sale.

I don't always find hot deals like this when I do a scan, but when I do it rocks.

[Gorny]

oh thats awesome...some familliar faces on llane....do you guys play pretty regularly? (if thats the case maybe ill start a char to play with you guys from time to time...a nightelf of sorts (mage or hunter perhaps?)

*so how is the wolfen and oneils empires here? /wink


wait there isnt a button to switch (like diablo2 "W") you literally have to click and drag?...oi...

*thanks for the sequence of opening too :laugh:


Forget the item switching macros, just use the Itemrack UI (Ihttp://wowui.incgamers.com/ui.php?id=1263) It's well worth it, except that it does not functiuon during combat.

I can give you a crash course in using UI's if you want me to do so, many of them make the game easier.

[Valas Azuviir]

. Plus, I've yet to see any green thrown weps with stats on them myself. .

Might want to poke a blacksmith then. Thick Bronze Darts

[Blakbow]

Touche. Didn't know about those. Most bows are still better, but now i'll have to look at a site, as i've never seen any, not even those, on my server's AH.
Thanks for that though, at least now I know they exist.

[Valas Azuviir]

I use them on my warrior, only green bow with +stats I've come across thus far is +1 agi, and as a warrior that +2 is worth a wee bit more, especially when you consider you just use them to pull anyway.

[Blakbow]

I've seen a few green bows in AH with +agi and strength, but they were slightly above my lvl and budget, but there are ones with random enchants too. I checked a few sites after you mentioned that and ran across a few, very few, green and some really nice blue/purple thrown weps.
Still not as numerous as bows/guns, but having thrown weps mean not having to buy ammo, or carry an ammo puch which leaves a spot open for another 10-16 slot bag.

[garion]

wow that auctioneer feature seems pretty useful...and that works whenever you hover your cursor over an item in your inventory....pretty awesome...

i probably will play a bit before i go off to get addons....also it will probably give me a better i dea of what parts of the game i think are tedious and the addition of an add-on can remedy it....=P

thanks for all the suggestions...

auctioneer
UI item rack? (the link didn't work for me)
also i hear map add-ons can be nice...i was thinking about the gathering one...where i saves your previous gather points in the game...

not sure what else is out there....

[Gorny]

wow that auctioneer feature seems pretty useful...and that works whenever you hover your cursor over an item in your inventory....pretty awesome...

i probably will play a bit before i go off to get addons....also it will probably give me a better i dea of what parts of the game i think are tedious and the addition of an add-on can remedy it....=P

thanks for all the suggestions...

auctioneer
UI item rack? (the link didn't work for me)
also i hear map add-ons can be nice...i was thinking about the gathering one...where i saves your previous gather points in the game...

not sure what else is out there....


Shoot me a PM here or there, I can walk ya through it.