Scarlet Monastery on a PvP Server

[Katrala]

I'm Alliance on a PvP Server and this question has come up a few times in groups and I'm not familiar enough with Horde quests to know -

Are there any instances that are based in Alliance territory with quests for Horde? The only instances I know of in Alliance territory are Gnomeragan, Deadmines, and Stockades and I was under the impression that there are no Horde quests for these instances.

That being said - is it really "fair" for Alliance to have quests in instances that are based in Horde territory if Horde doesn't have to deal with the same?

At levels 30-35ish, it's a 15-20 minute walk to Scarlet Monastery and then, on a PvP Server, you spend another half hour fighting horde at the meeting stone to be able to get inside. Does horde have anything that compares with this or is Alliance just lucky? :rolleyes:

[Twoflower]

gnome has horde quests. and a engineer in booty bay who teleports people whit that quest straigth to the dungeon entrance.

and if you walk from the western plaguelands flightpoint, not from southshore, it is only a 10 minutes walk, not 20 minutes.

[Stigg]

At levels 30-35ish, it's a 15-20 minute walk to Scarlet Monastery and then, on a PvP Server, you spend another half hour fighting horde at the meeting stone to be able to get inside. Does horde have anything that compares with this or is Alliance just lucky?

Just be thankful that there are summoning stones now.

[Katrala]

and if you walk from the western plaguelands flightpoint, not from southshore, it is only a 10 minutes walk, not 20 minutes.

But most level 30's don't have WP flightpoint yet, not to mention that walking from Chillwind flight path is going to involve level 30ish Alliance walking through level 55-55 mobs.

On a PvE server I couldn't care less, but why should Alliance have to fight their way inside an instance and Horde not have to do the same?

Just be thankful that there are summoning stones now.
And I've found that using the summoning stone is usually a suicide mission. "Quick - let's just get the mage here and then we can be ganked over and over as we try to corpse-hop our way into the instance."

[odinsnephew]

Just be thankful that there are summoning stones now.

I suppose. Usually involves a Mexican stand-off as to who does the leg work though.

Usually yours truly :)

[moopy]

Ah, I levelled a priest on a PvP server- and you can heal SM just fine as shadow. I tended to stay in my PvP gear until inside the portal, and then popped the itemrack set for healing.

That was a hordie priest, mind. However, I am peaceful. I left the nervous-looking Alliance alone unless they were stupid enough to try and beat the clothie up. If they started acting up, then all bets were off.

[Stigg]

I suppose. Usually involves a Mexican stand-off as to who does the leg work though.

Usually yours truly :)

Aye, I generally have no problem with going to the summonig stone first. I had gotten used to having to head there regardless.

And Katrala -as 2f pointed out, we do have one. Gnomer. And there are a ton of quests for it...but not everybody can use the teleporter. And you don't HAVE to go to an instance. Sure, the quests might be nice, the drops nice as well, but a lot of instances get skipped over.

Now then, if you want a challenge. Check out RFC. As an alliance, that level 12-16 instance will be the hardest one for you ever. Even as a 70.

[Eratia]

It's not the same level of pain, but on my server Ulda can be very difficult for Horde to get into because there are always Alliance at the meeting stone and nobody has the FP in the Badlands (grrr...).

I find that at SM you've got the same kind of karmic circle that seems to start spinning at Nessingwary's camp. Nobody knows who attacked who first (Alliance do seem to attack Horde at SM who have just zoned in from contested areas, in spite of the fact that our reinforcements are about 5 minutes away...), but everyone feels the injustice and pretty soon you have all out war to see who can hold the meeting stone area. I find it good fun (well, for Horde at least) depending on how eager I am to get the instance run done.

I don' know if it is really 'fair', but I find that very little on a PvP server is fair, anyway (try levelling in Hillsbrad as a Horde player!!).

Also, I haven't played on a PvE server in about a year, but I thought when you ventured into enemy territory you were automatically flagged, anyway, meaning the situation wouldn't be much different from a PvP server. I can sense I may well be wrong, but it crossed my mind...

[Tort]

Nope, on a pve server the only places you are automatically flagged are inside major cities of the opposite faction. You can stand right outside of UC or Stormwind and not be flagged.

[xDarkDrifterx]

I is it really "fair" for Alliance to have quests in instances that are based in Horde territory if Horde doesn't have to deal with the same?

Nope, I feel you, it's rediculous that it's not evened out like that. Though I never had/have to many problems getting into instances on the PVP server I play on. Just on occasion you get ganked.

[YamahaGuy]

The household was on a PVP server... but the female had enough.

Every time she pick herb or read quest log someone higher killed her.

Kinda have to agree, it was total bull.,... day in and day out. So she didnt want to play anymore.

And I remember SM... problem was, your 30-40 and the people camping SM are 60 or so.

You can cry your head off for hours, no 60 alliance are going to come help you go to SM.

So screw it. Were on normal server. If there was like... a 10 level gap limit, I'd consider.

People cracked on me/us for it alot, say its not a "real server" or people who dont wanna be ganked are puss... but whatever.

[Katrala]

And Katrala -as 2f pointed out, we do have one. Gnomer. And there are a ton of quests for it...but not everybody can use the teleporter.
Who can use the teleporter? The people that have the quests?

And you don't HAVE to go to an instance. Sure, the quests might be nice, the drops nice as well, but a lot of instances get skipped over.
The only Alliance instance that I can think of where Horde would have a terrible timing getting into is Stockades, but they have no quests for it and there are hardly any notable drops, so it's pretty much pointless for them to even try.

And of course instances can be skipped over - I shudder at the thought of a Gnomer run - ever. I just think that there should be a level playing field if you want to run an instance and have quests for it.

You can cry your head off for hours, no 60 alliance are going to come help you go to SM
This is a problem that I've had, too. 70 Alliance doesn't want to travel all the way to SM to help clear the way for a handful of lowbies trying to get inside - even when friends ask me to bring my 70 in to help out I don't want to do it (I do, but it's a huge pain).

I enjoy my PvP server now more than ever, but when it comes to completing quests in an instance, I feel that Horde and Alliance should have an equal share of problems getting into, etc. Or make SM like Stockades - Horde quests only and no real notable drops.

[Naedea]

I enjoy my PvP server now more than ever, but when it comes to completing quests in an instance, I feel that Horde and Alliance should have an equal share of problems getting into, etc. Or make SM like Stockades - Horde quests only and no real notable drops.
The favorable Alliance terrain in the Alterac Valley battleground more than makes up for this.

[xDarkDrifterx]

Corrected

The favorable Alliance Glitches in the Alterac Valley battleground more than makes up for this so we as horde can win by utilizing this LOS exploit.

lol

and on another note . . . there are set pieces that drop in WC (for lvl 14's!!!!) etc and there are no set pieces untill VC for alliance and even then it's only the rogue set - there are no set pieces of any kind in Stocks.

:ponder:

[Naedea]

Corrected



lol

and on another note . . . there are set pieces that drop in WC (for lvl 14's!!!!) etc and there are no set pieces untill VC for alliance and even then it's only the rogue set - there are no set pieces of any kind in Stocks.

:ponder:
People thinking they need that gear is as much a curse as the gear is a benefit.

And I've never seen LoS glitches in AV. Is it new? I haven't run battlegrounds since BC came out.

[xDarkDrifterx]

People thinking they need that gear is as much a curse as the gear is a benefit.

Yeah lol


And I've never seen LoS glitches in AV. Is it new? I haven't run battlegrounds since BC came out.


It's old, and from what I've read there's some sort of LOS issue that allows you guys to attack our WM (doesn't work all the time and it has to be just right) You should be able to find some stuff by googling it. :grin:

[Aerath]

Either side can glitch the bosses in AV. And I'm not going to tell you how because quite frankly I despise that method.

Back on topic, I've done more SM runs than I can remember. It's fairly rare you run into a group of hordies big enough that it becomes a problem and generally they'll be your level.

[CFW]

On DarkSpear (PVP, I'm Alliance) I have had more pug's give up because of ganking than have actually made it inside SM. It has always been ??'s camping the meeting stone. Then you run into the ??'s that camp just outside the entrance...

[rgirty]

On my server level 70 horde camping the entrance is the norm.

I think a few of them are using it for guild housing.

[Beruen]

On DarkSpear (PVP, I'm Alliance) I have had more pug's give up because of ganking than have actually made it inside SM.

Yeah, that would be the server that convinced me to avoid PvP. I leveled from 30-42 so slowly because of bored ?? players that I eventually lost interest. Most of my other characters on non-PvP servers hit 70 in less time /played than that one hit 42.

I did manage to run the library and the cathedral on that character, at least. In fact, that was one of the few times I managed to drive off a ?? attacker. Between the gnomish death ray, a stick of dense dynamite, and a mithril mechanical dragonling who was a lot more likely to hit than I was, the attacker panicked and ran off, not realizing that at that point, every trick I had was on cooldown. :grin:

[moopy]

And of course instances can be skipped over - I shudder at the thought of a Gnomer run - ever. I just think that there should be a level playing field if you want to run an instance and have quests for it.

Recently, I tanked Gnomer as my second ever instance tanking run. No deaths at all. Not one. Woohoo :) Slowing people down actually allowed smoother and faster progress, time for me to build rage and TC the AoE pulls, or to position ranged mobs with LoS. People normally shudder at the thought of this instance, but I wanted to have a crack at doing it properly. Everyone was level-appropriate, possibly even a bit low. The elites towards the end (near the workshop) were resisting almost everything the mage and warlock were throwing at them. however, we persevered, and used all the tricks we had, and it went well- smoothly but with the odd moment of panic to keep it spicy.

We cleared the place, one-shotted everything we engaged and I got the shield from the last boss. I felt vindicated in my decision to dig my heels in and enforce strict order on the party- it didn't kill the fun, it actually had the opposite effect. Yeah, I know it's hilarious to run a Gnomer run like you were learning TK, but don't knock it if it works. It was certainly good practise for me.

The shammy (who was helping soooo much by relaying my requests on vent to the non-guildies who couldn't hear me) declared it to be the "best Gnomeragan run ever", which considering that we'd both had scarring experiences in the past on our other toons, was a nice thing :)

[FireofDps]

Horde get quests that are in Alliance territory;

- BFD
- Gnome

[Katrala]

Horde get quests that are in Alliance territory;

- BFD
- Gnome

BFD is located in Ashenvale, which is contested territory.

While Gnomer is located in Alliance territory, Horde can teleport there instead of having to run to it.

[FireofDps]

BFD is located in Ashenvale, which is contested territory.

While Gnomer is located in Alliance territory, Horde can teleport there instead of having to run to it.

Not if you dont have the Gnome Teleporter Devise, then you cannot teleport. Some people dont have it, so they have to run through Dun Morgh.

[moopy]

Paging Captain Obvious..

[vdeych]

Ah! I've always wondered why there are allies by SM. I have killed dozens of groups there, really bad place for questing if you ask me -- it's 1 minute from undercity...

Send two rogues/druids, one of which a 68+, or just come in early morning if you can. I think going into other faction territory is a good, fun part of the quest -- wish horde had more like that.

PS it's really not much different from contested territory anyways, like running next to camp mojache or something
despite that going on a suicide run through enemy zones is always thrilling, and thats what the game's for hehe

[Wintrow]

Sure, if you have time to burn. If you barely have enough time to scratch together a group, get everyone there and complete ONE wing you DON'T want annoying gankers wasting your sweet precious time.

Every single time I come into contact with PvP it re-affirms my faith that PvE servers are right up my alley.

And as a little jest: PvE servers are called "Normal" servers for a reason :wink: :tongue:

[Malentra]

Sure, if you have time to burn. If you barely have enough time to scratch together a group, get everyone there and complete ONE wing you DON'T want annoying gankers wasting your sweet precious time.

Every single time I come into contact with PvP it re-affirms my faith that PvE servers are right up my alley.

And as a little jest: PvE servers are called "Normal" servers for a reason :wink: :tongue:

Heh, for every moment of pure frustration I get from being on a PvP server, I get 10 more moments that I will remember for a long time to come because of the unexpected turns a simple trip out questing took.

However I play Horde, and SM is a place of great amusement for me. :D

[bubkusjones]

...
And as a little jest: PvE servers are called "Normal" servers for a reason :wink: :tongue:

Bah, who wants to be normal? Oh, and, yes, I do on occasion like to gank alliance players trying to get to SM. Especially when they're summoning. Tip #1 - have your party meet somewhere else and head to SM as a group. I"m less likely to attack a full party than 1 or 2 lonely players.

[Eratia]

Sure, if you have time to burn. If you barely have enough time to scratch together a group, get everyone there and complete ONE wing you DON'T want annoying gankers wasting your sweet precious time.

I used to see this pattern alll the time at SM on my server:

One Horde turns up, obviously first of their party to get there and waiting for a second to help with summoning, but there are three or four alliance there waiting for the rest of their party.

The Horde player isn't going to attack the Alliance party and if the Alliance party are smart they are just going to leave him alone--they won't attack if he is flagged and if he isn't they won't sit there spamming /spit or what have you.

But nine times out of ten they aren't smart, they will either attack and kill the horde player or do stupid things like /spit and /rude, etc. At which point the Horde person goes straight to guild or party chat and reports what is going on and *boom* 2 seconds later you've got a few high level Horde players giving the Alliance a lesson.

I admit there are sometimes Horde there on the lookout for trouble, but so many Alliance parties make it a million times harder on themselves by really annoying Horde players who just want to run the instance.

For Alliance, SM is like a check on your ability to think 2 minutes into the future.

[Wintrow]

Eratia,

You make a good point. But I don't see what the quoted section has to do with it. My statement was describing Ally players who are not looking for trouble and just wanna get in and do the instance. You're describing idiots who picked Human out of closemindedness.

(And no, that's not the same thing :tongue:)

[Eratia]

Eratia,

You make a good point. But I don't see what the quoted section has to do with it. My statement was describing Ally players who are not looking for trouble and just wanna get in and do the instance. You're describing idiots who picked Human out of closemindedness.

(And no, that's not the same thing :tongue:)

Good point!

I was meaning to say that, as you point out, it's unfortunate for alliance groups who really just want to get the instance done and get caught out by the lvl 70 horde rogue sitting at the meeting stone for laughs.

BUT The flipside of the story is that there are actually a lot of alliance groups who go there and annoy single horde players (who also just want to summon and run the instance) without much thought about the consequences.

So, you know, I think the SM Meeting Stone Wars are fueled by idiots on both sides, it's not just a case of the hapless Alliance being picked on by the cruel Horde.

[snowieken]

Naked (corpse) runs to RFC as an Alliance or to Stockades as a Horde (at the appropriate level for that instance) is definately on my todo list.

[Katrala]

BUT The flipside of the story is that there are actually a lot of alliance groups who go there and annoy single horde players (who also just want to summon and run the instance) without much thought about the consequences.


All horde has to do is turn off PVP.

[Zarfol]

All horde has to do is turn off PVP.

Good thing allies like to camp the meeting stone when they see horde guys summoning.

But yeah, allies are stupid sometimes and will attack you if they are only 10 levels higher. Usually all you have to do is type in Gen chat and here comes a lvl 70 to come kill any idiots that started something. I usually leave allies alone unless they start doing stupid things like "following right on top of you" so hopefully you click on them and flag PVP, or if they are killing my quest mobs :grin:

[Eratia]

All horde has to do is turn off PVP.

No, you typically zone in from a contested area, so by the time you arrive at SM you'll probably have about 2 minutes or so before you can turn off PvP.

The way the land falls means that it is pretty hard to tell if anyone is at the meeting stone until you hit the top of the rise. By which time a pack of Alliance will easily spot you and then the chase is on.

Even if you wait in UC for 5 mins so you aren't flagged, you will inevitably be summoning people from contested areas, and if there are that certain kind of Alliance at the meeting stone they will take a pop at flagged party members as soon as they arrive.

Trust me, SM can be as frustrating for Horde as it is for Alliance. Plus, I don't think Alliance have anything near as frustrating as Hillsbrad Fields to contend with.

But, you know, the grass is always greener on the other side: if you are Horde then people say that Blizz favour Alliance; if you are Alliance people say that Horde is favoured.

I think the truth is more likely that on PvP servers both factions have questing areas/instances that are incredibly troublesome, and that is good. PvP servers are unfair and so they should be, as they are about permitting and promoting open (often dirty) warfare between the two factions.

[odinsnephew]

PvP servers are unfair and so they should be, as they are about permitting and promoting open (often dirty) warfare between the two factions.

Im only replying to say - QFT. Quoted for truth ;)