Grrrrr. Being nice just bit me. Hard.

[dancingstarr]

The other day one of my guildies spotted a weapon in the AH that he had been wanting for a really long time. He didn't quite have the gold for it, and asked if anyone could make him a short-term loan to help him get it. I (thought I) knew him to be trustworthy (somewhat irrelevant, but we're talking about an adult here), so I told him I'd mail him 27g and he could just get it back to me before I hit lvl 60, when I would need it to train my riding skill. A few minutes later, he told me there was a mail issue atm, and asked if I could meet him to trade. Ok, it sounded fishy, but I tend to trust people at their word. I met him in Org, gave him another 27g, and told him to mail the other back as soon as he got it. He agreed.

Before I logged off for the night, I still hadn't received the gold I mailed to him. I sent him a message reminding him to return it as soon as he got it, and also that the other gold was a loan, and I would expect it back at some point soon.

He replied the next morning with an email essentially saying, "I received the 27g you mailed. I wasn't sure whether I should keep this or not, so I'm holding onto it until you tell me otherwise." Hrm. I sent him a message saying that I was assuming that he didn't get my earlier email, since he wasn't clear on whether he should return the gold I mailed him, and that he should return it immediately.

This morning I got a letter from him saying, "I have to get some other stuff first before I can send it back."

*sigh*

I've received a lot of really random help in this game from complete strangers. I've learned a lot here and am a very efficient money-making machine. :laugh: Since I almost always have extra gold kicking around, when someone needs help, I help them. When I group, I give everyone whatever potions they need for free. Helping people makes me happy. =)

So, yeah, I can pretty much expect to not receive any of the 54g I loaned this guy back. Well, the 27g that I loaned and 27g that he stole from me. And there's not a thing I can do about it, at least not that I know of. Grrrrr.

Any suggestions on how I can convince this guy to play nicely, other than asking (which isn't working)?

Wow. I feel like I'm in kindergarten and he just stole the toy truck I was playing with. The only thing I can do is say, "He took it! He took it!" :embarassed:

[Stigg]

tell your guildmaster. Assuming you are in a respectful guild, he should get kicked unless he returns the gold.

[Golug]

I was in a guild with some in game mates after I took a break from WoW. One of them needed shadowcloth for his 'lock, so I loaned him 7. I then fell out with one of the lads and left the guild (not worth arguing over). Now he's refusing to give me the shadowcloth back. A lesson learned. Still makes me angry tho!

[DaMuffinMan]

You could try the old "You could get banned because of this ... " but that may not have any effect at all.

As they said tell you guild leader and just keep at him. I am sure he will return it.. eventually..


When ever somebody asks me for money and tells me they will pay me back halve the time i know they wont...

[Twoflower]

i only lend gold to people i had contact whit for some time. and i mean quality time contact, chatting, questing, raiding etc. I dont think that even 50% of my guildmembers count to that close group of friends.

As for your special case, get over it :) see if your guild master does something about it, but it is only 50 g, dont get all worked up over such a small amount.

[swaldman]

As for your special case, get over it :) see if your guild master does something about it, but it is only 50 g, dont get all worked up over such a small amount.

Well, it's not a huge amount to loose (As long as you have a lvl 70), but that shouldn't make it unimportant for the guild. If this guy is doing this with 50g now, maybe it will be something more siginficant later on.

[Twoflower]

of course, the principle behind such behaviour is very questionable and if your guild master does not do anything about it, you may wanna consider looking for a new guild. I just wanted to say that 50g is nothing to loose sleep at night about.

[dancingstarr]

Yeah, I mailed the guild leader and forwarded copies of the guy's letters to him, the whole time feeling like I was tattling. *sigh*

The thing is, I would have been ok with not getting the 27g back...I generally don't expect that I'll see any gold I loan back (even though I always get repaid when I make it clear it is a loan). It's a karma thing, really. It comes back to me in other ways. But when he made it pretty clear that his intent at the outset was to trick me into giving him twice as much as he allegedly needed, and then kind of threw it in my face that he wasn't giving it back to me, well, grrrr. I want it all back, like right now.

Meh. I'm not going to chase the guy. I'm sure he'll have been kicked by the time I get back from vacation, not that it matters. People like him will just move on to the next guild and not think twice about it.

Edit: Yeah, how upset can I be? It's fake gold in a game (not a whole lot at that), and I can make it back in the blink of an eye.

[bwirum]

Principles can be hard to let go. Even if only for 50g.

[Tikki]

but it is only 50 g, dont get all worked up over such a small amount.

ARE YOU KIDDING!?! That's TONS of gold!!!! :shocked:

Firstly, you're very very kind - and sadly, kind people often get stepped on.
I would follow the advice of these wise folks. Hopefully you'll get it back, sadly you probably won't. And I don't think 50g was worth the lesson you learned. Perhaps the GM could give you some gold from the guild bank (if you have one), that way it's less of a loss to you and shows that the GM cares.

Best of luck! I hope it works out for you ;)

[Aerath]

Reminds me of an old saying.

"If you loan a friend $10 and never hear from 'em again, it was worth every dime."

[Twoflower]

Tikki you are cute :)

this week, i spend 5000g on epic flying. Then 200 on the epic flying mount. I showed some poor noob where to buy his first mount at lvl 40, and since he was 35 g short, i just gave him the 35 g.

Realy, once you hit lvl 70 and have access to the amazing possibilities to make gold in outlands, everything under 4 numbers is just peanuts.

As i said, i baught the epic flyer this wek, and just from selling one primal mooncloth bag and doing daily quests, i am allready back at 1600 g.

edit : lol aerath, didnt know that one :) but it s brilliant :)

edit 2 : Kaltes : it used to be that gold is sent instantly, items always take exactly one hour. It got patched lately and now it s anything that you send between 2 chars on the same account is instantly ( even items ) and everything between 2 different acounts takes one hour ( even if it is only gold ).

[Kaltes]

I'm just asking out of curiosity... when he notified you that there was a "mailing" problem, how long did it take between you sending him the gold and him telling you that? Typically I've always been told (and have seen) that unless you're mailing items / gold between characters, it takes at least an hour before the mail can appear, especially on busy nights...

Maybe he was expecting it to be instantaneous? Doesn't give him the right to say, "Well I'm going to use that extra gold for other things first". No man, that's not your call, I gave you gold for this one thing, and now I want it back. Most you can really do though is

1) File said complaint with your guild master, and hopefully they and other members can "talk some sense into him". Worst comes to worst, if it really bugs you perhaps another guild member will be kind enough to give you the lost gold.

2) You could file a complaint with a GM, but again I feel that they're not even going to handle the case... they'll probably tell you something along the lines of, "Better luck next time". Can't really blame them, unfortunately trust is never guaranteed.

[Tikki]

Tikki you are cute :)

this week, i spend 5000g on epic flying. Then 200 on the epic flying mount. I showed some poor noob where to buy his first mount at lvl 40, and since he was 35 g short, i just gave him the 35 g.

Realy, once you hit lvl 70 and have access to the amazing possibilities to make gold in outlands, everything under 4 numbers is just peanuts.

As i said, i baught the epic flyer this wek, and just from selling one primal mooncloth bag and doing daily quests, i am allready back at 1600 g.
.

I will say the first time I ever played I thought when I hit the 1g mark I won the lotto. It took me forever to get my mount because i hadn't learn the money making ways of WoW. I didn't start using the AH until 30... meaning I bought and sold everything at merchants!!! (Partially because I could never find the AH in any cities! lol)

With my newer toons I've manage to begin making gold quite quickly (i had my mount paid for by lvl 23)

Still, I can never imagine having in the 4 -digit gold number (i'd love too!!) perhaps once i venture to the outlands things will become easier :)

[dancingstarr]

I'm just asking out of curiosity... when he notified you that there was a "mailing" problem, how long did it take between you sending him the gold and him telling you that? Typically I've always been told (and have seen) that unless you're mailing items / gold between characters, it takes at least an hour before the mail can appear, especially on busy nights...

I think from the time I mailed the gold to when I met him in Org probably 30 minutes elapsed. I've seen gold transfer more quickly than that to other players since the patch, iirc. When I got to Org, I asked him to check his mail one more time. He said no, he hadn't received it, and didn't think he would because of the "mail issues." I know about the one-hour transfer thing, but decided just to give him the gold (trusting that he would mail the other back) so I could get off the computer.

As I was flying out of Org about five minutes later, I saw him in trade asking for someone to do a firey weapon enchant. I think that was when I figured out that I wasn't getting the gold back. There's no way he could have had enough to buy both the weapon *and* the enchant unless he had either a) lied to me (and the rest of the guild, since the entire conversation about the loan took place in guild chat) about how much gold he actually had or b) received the gold I mailed and elected to keep it.

I tried really, really hard to give him the benefit of the doubt, though.

Thanks for the suggestions...I'll let you know how things work out when I get back from my much-needed vacation. =)

[coani]

mail issues:
after the recent patch, mail now works like this:
transfers to your own alts (within your own account) = instant
items/gold to other accounts = 1 hour delay.
gold to other players used to be instant, but now all mails with attachments are delayed.. maybe he wasn't aware of that change.

as for the enchant, maybe he did have the materials for it already (they're not expensive.. or at least didn't used to be).

[moopy]

Still, I can never imagine having in the 4 -digit gold number (i'd love too!!) perhaps once i venture to the outlands things will become easier :)

They will :) The instance portals are paved with gold, jah seh.

[Kodonn]

this week, i spend 5000g on epic flying. Then 200 on the epic flying mount. I showed some poor noob where to buy his first mount at lvl 40, and since he was 35 g short, i just gave him the 35 g.

Realy, once you hit lvl 70 and have access to the amazing possibilities to make gold in outlands, everything under 4 numbers is just peanuts.


Really...going on about how much gold you spent this week is kind of irrelevant to dancingstarrs issue (unless you intend to send her some).

For starters, she is pre-60, so the whole "Outlands has plenty of gold" isn't going to help until she gets there. :rolleyes:

Secondly, I have found that not all servers offer the same AH gold making opportunities. Even on my main server (RP) there is such a drastic difference between the alliance AH and the horde AH, that sometimes it's more proffitable to do item transfers from one faction to the other via the neutrel AH and a trusted friend. So that could also be a limitting factor for her.

But I think most importantly, is the fact that she helped out a guildmate and has now lost all trust in him. And if the GL doesn't do anything about it, she will probably lose trust in him/her as well.

Sure, 50g isn't a lot to someone who has 1000's to throw around, but to someone who might be on their first character and only have 200g to start with, it's 25% of her fortune.

The greater loss though will be how it affects Dancings' willingness to help out anyone in the future. As she said, she probably wasn't expecting to ever see the first 27g again, but it's sad that a guildmate would burn her that way. How many other people now won't benefit from her generousity because of what this one person did ?

[unbdm]

Reminds me of an old saying.

"If you loan a friend $10 and never hear from 'em again, it was worth every dime."



that is good, real good... I will use that again sometime I'm sure...

[Beruen]

I tend to loan gold to guildies to get their non-epic ground mounts, and I'm running about a 75% repayment rate. Good enough to keep me going. I never loan the money out if I think I'll actually need the money, I just assume that I'll never see it again. That way, when I do get paid back, it's a surprise :-)

[coani]

beruen: very good policy :)

[Etrin]

I am probably wrong but non player account gold is being grabbed by the game at times because of gold sellers. Even those guys have given up on in game mail. ONLY doing chr to chr transfers.
I dont' know if you get a letter saying bye gold or what.
AND if might just be for gold over a certain amount.

FUNNY that Bliz is attacking gold sellers and bots, if we F over some honest players SCREW THEM we are BLIZ...

[Janfader]

I am probably wrong but non player account gold is being grabbed by the game at times because of gold sellers. Even those guys have given up on in game mail. ONLY doing chr to chr transfers.
I dont' know if you get a letter saying bye gold or what.
AND if might just be for gold over a certain amount.

FUNNY that Bliz is attacking gold sellers and bots, if we F over some honest players SCREW THEM we are BLIZ...


?

Any how...

Next time you see him on line, ask him again for the 54 gold back kindly. If he refuses for whatever reason, raise a ticket to the GM. They'll help you, trust me. :thumbsup: Essentially, they'll come on line and speak to him directly about the whole deal. GM's have a nice way of putting things into perspective. :azn:

This falls into line via the movie Payback. It doesn't matter how much money is involved, its about the princple of the matter. :listen:

Good Luck.

[NOYB]

I never lend money out to friends for the same reason. You never know if/when you'll get it back, and asking for it becomes an uncomfortable scenario.

[dancingstarr]

Back from vacation. =(

So, when I logged into the game there were two letters from the guy who took the gold -- the first one said, "I didn't try to screw you. I just needed the gold." The next letter said nothing, but contained 8g.

There were two letters from my GL -- the first one letting me know that he got my letters and the ones I forwarded, and that he sent a letter to the guy asking him to return the gold. The GL apologized profusely for this guy's behavior, and didn't like that this was going on in the guild.

The second letter from my GL contained 54g and explained that the guy who took my money is an *insertseveralchoicewordshere* and had no intention of repaying the gold. He has been kicked from the guild. The GL was sent me some of his own gold because he felt badly that someone in his guild did this. He also forwarded me a copy of the guy's response to his letter. It basically said, "Yeah. I hate this guild and I am trying to screw it and everyone in it. I'm tired of getting stupid letters from her and from you. I'm not giving the gold back and you can go....Tell her she's not getting her stupid gold back and to stop sending me letters!!!" Well, you get the idea. It went downhill from there pretty quickly.

I cracked up, sent the gold back to my GL and explained that it was a principle thing, not a money thing. I've chalked it up to experience. Next time I'll just go to the AH, buy the whateveritis, and hold it until they have the gold. If they need it that badly, they'll pay up. If not, I'll have a shiny new whateveritis to sell or give to someone else. =)

I'm a total carebear. I'll always help people, just more carefully next time.

[Twoflower]

to highlight the other side :

i got lend 1700g from a player i know. sort of. We were in a guild together for maybee a month, and we maybee did 3 instance runs together in that time. Then we almost never talked besides a occasional /wave when we crossed for 6 months since i went to another guild. Still he somehow thaught i am a friend of him and after questing together for a hour ( after 6 months not talking at all, to stress that point ^^ ) he just lend me 1700g. well, he was a bit drunk, too :P

anyway, i repaied him whitin a week.

[Tollin]

Think of it this way dancingstarr.. you paid fake money to learn a real lesson. Never send money to people you don't really know and even then dont send an amount you are not comfortable with losing.

I dont send money to my friends I have played with for months. I ask them what items they need and do the old bartar system.

Example, buddy of mine, known him for months is a tailor is farming mats for epic robes, I have 6 stacks of cloth and some spider silk and some motes of mana that he needs.

I need shards, primal waters and primal lifes for my enchants I want. We trade what we have to each other to help each other out. He sent me money once for epic riding skill I sent it right back. I dont want that.. i dont do that.

[Aerath]

Back from vacation. =(

So, when I logged into the game there were two letters from the guy who took the gold -- the first one said, "I didn't try to screw you. I just needed the gold." The next letter said nothing, but contained 8g.

There were two letters from my GL -- the first one letting me know that he got my letters and the ones I forwarded, and that he sent a letter to the guy asking him to return the gold. The GL apologized profusely for this guy's behavior, and didn't like that this was going on in the guild.

The second letter from my GL contained 54g and explained that the guy who took my money is an *insertseveralchoicewordshere* and had no intention of repaying the gold. He has been kicked from the guild. The GL was sent me some of his own gold because he felt badly that someone in his guild did this. He also forwarded me a copy of the guy's response to his letter. It basically said, "Yeah. I hate this guild and I am trying to screw it and everyone in it. I'm tired of getting stupid letters from her and from you. I'm not giving the gold back and you can go....Tell her she's not getting her stupid gold back and to stop sending me letters!!!" Well, you get the idea. It went downhill from there pretty quickly.

I cracked up, sent the gold back to my GL and explained that it was a principle thing, not a money thing. I've chalked it up to experience. Next time I'll just go to the AH, buy the whateveritis, and hold it until they have the gold. If they need it that badly, they'll pay up. If not, I'll have a shiny new whateveritis to sell or give to someone else. =)

I'm a total carebear. I'll always help people, just more carefully next time.

At least you learned 2 valuable lessons =)

1) The guy was a total dick.
2) The GM you got rocks.

Gotta be worth some cash - the last one in particular :flowers:

[Karkas]

I dont send money to my friends I have played with for months. I ask them what items they need and do the old bartar system.

For me being friends with someone includes a large amount of trust and willingness to help each other out without wanting anything back. Probably you have some kind of reason for your principles but for me this is not what friendship is.

Maybe I am really naive but I quite often help friends and even help out people I played only for a little while.

I remember a year ago I quested on my, then main, lock for an hour in STV with a guy I met looking for a group to kill the elite panther. He dinged 40 but didn't have money to buy his mount. We had a great time questing he seemed very friendly, so I decided to borrow him 50g (of the 60g I had then). He was very surprised and really appreciated the trust I put in him after such a short while. He bought the mount and came back to me to show it. The next day he send me a mail to thank me and to say again how much he appreciated the trust I put in someone I just met. Two days later he send me a mail to tell me he had an epic drop. He sold it and send me back my 50g, again thanking me. For the following months we often had a little chat when we were both online.

If 9 out of 10 times I do this I would not get back my gold, then it would still be worth it for the one time you can make someone genuinely happy and surprised in a game. Luckily the chance this happens is more than 1 out of 10.

To cut a long story short: dancingstarr, please do not "learn your lesson" and keep your friendly and helpful attitude. Yes, you might go flat on your face once in a while. But the times you can really help out a friend or stranger more than makes up for that.

BTW: kudos to your guildmaster, he's a great guy

[TdAddict]

well thats wat u getz when u puty tooui much trust uinto someone u dontnme reslly know.

sorry fr my englishh, i am not naive englishh spiekr

[Tollin]

For me being friends with someone includes a large amount of trust and willingness to help each other out without wanting .

BTW: kudos to your guildmaster, he's a great guy

That is just it.. i am very jaded.. i lost some good friends and watched a guild fall apart that we all loved and still to this day lament over due to a fight over loot, money and the like.

Now, I don't deal in money with my friends. I deal in objects. Much easier that way.

[wyren]

Just make sure to write his name in the notebook so you dont ever run with him on a raid and have him ninja the loot. I keep a note book and write down who I help and who helps me. I also write down the people who are rude and lacking honor.
I am a softee and loan or give way too much away but it is only a game. You can tell a lot about people by the way that they act when they feel that there are no consequences to their actions. at least 80% are pretty cool and as much as it suck it is usually less costly to find out as soon as possible. I am glad you got your gold back and i am glad you are in a good guild.

[Qwertius]

Tikki you are cute :)




I was JUST thinking the exact same when I read that post.

[Janfader]

well thats wat u getz when u puty tooui much trust uinto someone u dontnme reslly know.

sorry fr my englishh, i am not naive englishh spiekr

To be of help and great learning tool is Word - spell check. Try it out. create your message in word, then to spell check, then copy paste into this forum.

1. It will help you learn to spell English words and to obviously understand/write in english text.

I'm not a spelling B wiz by any means too.:wink:

GL.

As for the OP, that's great news!:thumbsup:

[Kaldresh]

Sometimes people just suck. Other times - they don't. I've played with people for half an hour and loaned them money. I've played with others and wouldn't loan them a mirror. I played with someone for about an hour one day - she asked me for some silver for this, some silver for that. I was having fun so what the hell. She turned around and mailed me 10g (as a thank you and to 'get me started' she said). <shrug> It just all depends - I'm of the mind that you can tell a great deal about a person by how they play. If their play and conversation made me feel comfortable, I enjoyed myself and thought of adding them to my friends' list - then why not? It's not real gold, after all. But to be honest - I'd make my decision IRL pretty much the same way.

I'm glad the GL handled it - that guild's a keeper. :)

[Kaltes]

Back from vacation. =(

So, when I logged into the game there were two letters from the guy who took the gold -- the first one said, "I didn't try to screw you. I just needed the gold." The next letter said nothing, but contained 8g.

There were two letters from my GL -- the first one letting me know that he got my letters and the ones I forwarded, and that he sent a letter to the guy asking him to return the gold. The GL apologized profusely for this guy's behavior, and didn't like that this was going on in the guild.

The second letter from my GL contained 54g and explained that the guy who took my money is an *insertseveralchoicewordshere* and had no intention of repaying the gold. He has been kicked from the guild. The GL was sent me some of his own gold because he felt badly that someone in his guild did this. He also forwarded me a copy of the guy's response to his letter. It basically said, "Yeah. I hate this guild and I am trying to screw it and everyone in it. I'm tired of getting stupid letters from her and from you. I'm not giving the gold back and you can go....Tell her she's not getting her stupid gold back and to stop sending me letters!!!" Well, you get the idea. It went downhill from there pretty quickly.

I cracked up, sent the gold back to my GL and explained that it was a principle thing, not a money thing. I've chalked it up to experience. Next time I'll just go to the AH, buy the whateveritis, and hold it until they have the gold. If they need it that badly, they'll pay up. If not, I'll have a shiny new whateveritis to sell or give to someone else. =)

I'm a total carebear. I'll always help people, just more carefully next time.

Glad to hear that there can be some closure to your issue. It's a shame that there was someone like that in the guild who was trying to rob you. Fortunately it seems that you have a very cool guild leader, and that they were willing to help you recover from your losses. At least there was a lesson learned from this!

[dancingstarr]

I'm glad the GL handled it - that guild's a keeper. :)

/agree :grin:

I think he was as shocked as I was that someone wasn't happy with the guild, since we all help each other and there is no drama. *shrug*

I played for a couple of hours and made the gold back already, so all is well. Thanks again for all of the suggestions/help. :thumbsup:

[Valas Azuviir]

well thats wat u getz when u puty tooui much trust uinto someone u dontnme reslly know.

sorry fr my englishh, i am not naive englishh spiekr

Might want to quit, while you're ahead kiddo.
We got ways of tracking our posters.

You're in Australia, heck your initial posts were in understandable English as well.
Ok, so technically it was more akin to textspeak probably. But they were still of a higher standard than your current postings. So, I don't rate the chance of you being a non-native speaker very high.

If, you think this song and dance routine, will grant you some leeway with regards to the rules we have here, then you've been smoking the funny plants a wee bit too much.

[Stigg]

bt eh mite b tling truth the

/hides from the fiery wrath of VA

[TdAddict]

Yes I smoke those funny plants, quite nice actually, lol just kidding.

I hate text speak, I hate 1337 speak, I actually do not like talking like "hru 2day?" or whatever.

Yeah I am an Australian, lol.

BTW good news hearing your good news.

[Gavriel]

I hate text speak, I hate 1337 speak, I actually do not like talking like "hru 2day?" or whatever.

Then might I ask what was the point of this whole exercise? Why the pretense at being a German person with little or no English skill?

[Teargas]

Wow ): Sorry to hear.

Sometimes people like to take advantage of you if you're too nice to them. Of course helping others out is definitely a good thing, but I don't think he was the right person to borrow money from you.

Usually, if someone asks me for Gold, I will often tell them no. Often times I feel pretty bad being firm with them, but I refuse to give anyone gold unless I know I really trust them. And even then, it's rare.

Good luck ): I hope he eventually does return the gold to you.:cry: