Enough is enough.

[Blakbow]

After walking a guildie to do sfk and get her FPs from IF up, and having a run in with a group of 4 horde in dun algaz ranging from 43 to 25, we get to Southshore for the FP, and as soon as we get there, a lvl ?? (i'm guessing 70) ud rogue runs in and begins to slaughter all the 20-50 people who happen to be there/fly in. Now I'm not going to complain about being killed on a pvp server, I know it can happen any time.

My complaint is the ability of one 70 to camp and entire town and hold it hostage. It seemed his main goal was to keep his victims there for his own amusement( I hate 13 year olds who think being the bully for a change is cool.), as he killed the griff master repeatedly, and anytime someone tried to run, he'd break away and chase them down.

Now I've been to brill, and seen the 45+ elite guards, compared to Goldshire's lvl 25 non elites. My question is: Why did blizz make it so that 1 horde can hold a town like SS hostage, yet it would take a full alliance raid to do that on Tarren Mill?

This may be the frustration of a massive camping by one 70 while trying to get a guildie fp's on the way to run sfk, but there NEEDS to be something to prevent this kind of thing from happening all the time. I suggest a stacking Debuff for killing essential npc's( griff masters, quest givers, vendors.), 10% drop in stats for each kill up to 80%, about the same as rez sickness, to prevent 70's from 1 hitting everyone and griefing lower level areas. Guards and non essential npc's would still be fair game, as well as any essential npc who attacks first, if that ever happens. I know world pvp means dying and i accept that, but griefing and camping is another story done by people with no lives.

There is no reason 1 player should be able to hold an entire area hostage. This is a game and is supposed to be fun, but just becuase one person gets his kicks aggravating others, doesn't mean he should have full carte blanche to do it. 1 person having fun griefing is not worth 5-20 logging off becuase of it. I seriously hope blizz finds a way to lessen this kind of crap. I didn't like it at 20, i don't like it at 45, and when I'm 70 if i hear of it, even if i die, i'm going to do something about it, becuase its flat out crap either way. I don't do it, and I will personally knock the avatar teeth out of anyone i can i find doing it.
</rant>

[Thargos]

Like the alliance never does the same thing.

It's fun. Me and my guild do world PvP every sunday.

[Tollin]

Blizzard favors horde over alliance... once you realize that you will be better off.

Two years of alliance toons.. dumped

6 months of a horde toon, much better gear, quest rewards, towns etc.... Kalimdor is so much better layed out and has better flight paths than the eastern kingdoms for the alliance.

Its true.

[Aerath]

z0mg ! PvP on a PvP server ? No wai !

Seriously. If it bugs you that much, reroll.

[Ravashak]

Reminds me when I very briefly started on a pvp server, got to lvl 20 or so, entered Lakeshire in the Redridge Mountains, and there a lvl 60 (pre-TBC) tauren druid was just ganking everyone. Went back to my old char on a pve server very fast =þ

[ConnerMacleod]

Reminds me when I very briefly started on a pvp server, got to lvl 20 or so, entered Lakeshire in the Redridge Mountains, and there a lvl 60 (pre-TBC) tauren druid was just ganking everyone. Went back to my old char on a pve server very fast =þ

This is not the rule, it's the occasional distraction. PvE only is so boring, you gotta take over a town once in your career. Being pve is just a waste of a good time you'll never know about. Besides, how do you improve when only mobs test your play skill?

[spadron]

I have no problem with this kind of thing.

If it happens I just remember their name for payback once I hit 70 :D Nobody's a hostage...just res at another GY if they hang about too long.

[JaedxRapture]

The ability for a very powerful player to camp a town and hold it hostage adds a unique and realistic aspect to the game, and is a part of PvP server. It's how it works. You signed up to be open for full PvP. And honestly I feel the current PvP server setup isn't hardcore enough.

Now for my generic answer to all of these: ZOMG YOU GOTS PVPED ON A PVP SERVER! CALL TEH POLICE.

(Sorry, I just have to do it every time. :grin: )

[det]

Blizzard favors horde over alliance... once you realize that you will be better off.

Two years of alliance toons.. dumped

6 months of a horde toon, much better gear, quest rewards, towns etc.... Kalimdor is so much better layed out and has better flight paths than the eastern kingdoms for the alliance.

Its true.

Funny you should say that, because I distinctively remember Horde being frustrated on being outnumbered at least 3:1 on most servers initially and even on my PvE server there were times where you couldn't quest in Hillsbrad because TM and the NPCs were constantly obliterated by Alliance.

My first experience at lv 9 of PvP was a lv 34 Paladin "raiding" Brill.

Playing a Draenei atm and enjoying it as much as I enjoyed playing Horde. The quests are very similar, there is not a lot more travelling and especially once you reach neutral NPC it is just the same quests for both sides anyway....

[Blakbow]

Its not that I mind dying, or even getting ganked. Its the fact that someone specifically targets quest givers and flight masters in areas where players and guards are 20 lvls or more below them, for an hour or sometimes (sentinel hill) hours on end.

I can't see 1 or 2 14 year olds getting their jollies to be more important than 15-20 players not getting their money's worth out of a game they also pay for just becuase someone is killing the quest giver they need to continue what they were doing. all I'm saying is blizz should do something to make it less enticing to kill essential npcs. Guards and town folk, heck, even vendors is fine, just give them something to prevent them from continually slaughtering quest givers and flight masters. Doing it once or twice I can let slide, but to be there for 30 minutes or more trying to get a flight path for the first time and someone keeps attacking and killing the grif master, thats just too much.
In the end it hampers the fun of the lower lvl players and may end up costing blizz some revenue. so many seem to miss the differentiation between an actual raid, and griefing/camping.

Goldshire guards are what 30-40 on elite? I remember the first time i got close to brill when i got lost trying to find sm the first time. lvl 45-50 elites slaughtered me.

It wouldn't be that bad to make towns harder to take, only more challenging for those who say they do it as a challenge. Where's the challenge in killing grey mobs?

I'm not asking to make pvp pve, I like pvp, i accept the gankings, I just want something doen to make such griefing harder.

[det]

Again, I believe making the Horde guards a slightly higher level is due to the inherent imbalance in population. At least it used to be that way, haven't checked in a long time.

As for NPC killing - yes...that is "lame" and frustrating. But we have seen a developement here. World PvP..or PvP honor in general was flawed for a long time. Then BGs were introduced and dishonor for killing NPC civilians. That worked well, but eventually the PvP system attracted lots of criticism again (rewarding only time invested, not skill). So we now have another adjusted system...and yes, even on an RP server (PvE) you get Horde AND Alliance levelling starting towns.

There at least I had a chance to switch to my toon on the other site and chat with the "offenders". Turns out, they are not 13 year old. My son, who plays beside me wouldn't think of doing that, actually he would be annoyed by you generalisation ;)

It is as much 16, 20 and 30 years old living out some frustration. So what is the solution? Make NPCs untargetable? Yes..it is a town being held hostage. This is "Hans Gruber" in the Nakatomi building and guess you have to be "John McLane" trying to free people ^^

Yipeekayee!

[Gavriel]

Me and my guild do world PvP every sunday.

And you are a Venture Co denizen, are you not? I will tread carefully on Sundays.

[NOYB]

It probably happens more frequently on PvE servers. An answer to that situation is to level to 70 and make it a point to dominate them every chance you get.

[clevins]

I think some of you are missing the point - one Alliance player CAN'T do this in Tarren Mill. The guards are too powerful. SS, in contrast, has no guards worth the name - they can keep the animals at bay, but not a 70, no way.

And Thargos etc... holding Southshore hostage when you're 70 isn't 'doing world pvp' - it's being a snot.

[jrichard]

Wow, i'd urge you to start a horde character and just try to quest in the barrens sometime. Quest npcs and the flightmaster in the crossroads spend more time dead than alive most nights on my server.

Have never said this before, but QQ more.

jrichard

[odinsnephew]

Look guys and gals, it happens everywhere. Its annoying, but it happens at different levels (of griefing I mean), on different servers, at different places and times.

I have experienced both sides and they are bad as each other especially at the aforementioned Crossroads/Southshore and some other corners of Azeroth - its Dog eat Dog out there, meaning if say a Horde town gets attacked, then usually an Alliance one will "Get some retribution back". Natural reaction im afraid ;)

(the above statement also applies to a recently ganked player - they WILL take the next player(s) of the opposite faction out - no questions, no remorse. No guilt either.)

To Blakbow - I agree but playing on a PvP server just deal with it mate - Log off and check your kids/washing/emails/play an Alt etc, etc for 10 minutes and try again.

Good luck and PvP ftw!

[kall]

Meh. Seriously, meh. Crocodile tears for you about Southshore.

Last night, for the 5th night in a row, Crossroads had no quest-giving NPCs or Vendors available. One L70 mage was killing all comers.

Sheesh. This is what Global/Local defence channels are for.

[caldepen]

I think it adds to the lore. One evil dude (perspective) comes in and lays waste to the town. Is there not someone out there brave enough to free the villagers? What server are you on? Everytime one guy does this a call goes out and then you have a dozen guys coming in to kill him/her. It seems to me that there are not enough heroes on your server and too many inspecting their own l33t gear.

[Sonya of Red]

Not to be a middle of the roader on this issue but... I do see both sides to this issue. When your limited on time and just trying to get something done this type of griefing behavior can be very annoying. When you hit higher levels though it adds to the game. I like being the guy who takes revenge on the evil doers - the campers, griefers and gnomes (kidding).

[sycamore]

I'd sympathise very much if you were on a PvE server, but I'm afraid I agree that when you're on a PvP server you can't really object to world PvP, whether or not it meets your criteria of what PvP should be.

I'd argue that there's a case for the system you mention on PvE servers though.

Isn't Southshore a bit of a special case anyway? I'm sure that the level of the guards was reduced because horde have to do a quest there which was virtually impossible when the guards were at an equivalent level to TM, etc. That's not the best way Blizzard could have solved the problem though, agreed.

Also, I agree with Det that the ageist comments weren't necessary, and no, I'm not twelve, I'm 36, and no, I've never griefed a lowbie town and probably never will.

[Thargos]

And you are a Venture Co denizen, are you not? I will tread carefully on Sundays.

I forgot to say on my main. On Burning Legion.

[Blakbow]

I said "makes me think they're 13.", not in actual years lived but in mentality.
On my server, horde generally outnumbers ally roughly 3/1, or at least it did, seems to be getting better now.
I guess its just that on my server the 70 ally are either in outlands, or dueling in one of the major cities.
I've gotten the chillwind fp and avoid SS whenever i can, have world defense on to check if where i'm heading is ubder attack to avoid it, but i guess i'm the only one on it.
Tarren mill gets raided/attacked once for every 50 times SS gets hit.
I really don't think its too much to do something to make constantly killing the grif master, or quest givers give a negative effect in a town full of low levels. I'm all for killing out in the world, or even attacking towns. Killing quest givers with a group of 70s in westfall for two hours is just stupid, and imo should have some consequence.
It just seems everywhere that ally guards are lower lvl than the contemporary horde guards. At least make all guards for equivalent towns the same lvl. I mean why have regular guards at the alliance city, and higher lvl elite ones at the mirror horde city?

[Tollin]

Funny you should say that, because I distinctively remember Horde being frustrated on being outnumbered at least 3:1 on most servers initially and even on my PvE server there were times where you couldn't quest in Hillsbrad because TM and the NPCs were constantly obliterated by Alliance.

My first experience at lv 9 of PvP was a lv 34 Paladin "raiding" Brill.

Playing a Draenei atm and enjoying it as much as I enjoyed playing Horde. The quests are very similar, there is not a lot more travelling and especially once you reach neutral NPC it is just the same quests for both sides anyway....

I said BLIZZARD favors horde over alliance...not the players. Pop imbalance due to the days of "Oh look the Night Elves are so pretty and oh look whats a hunter do...?"

Or "Oh wow I want to be a paladin they sound cool a warrior that can heal!"

etc...

Look at the horde racials versus the alliance racials, look at the gear rewards vs what the alliance get, look at how many instances the horde get vs alliance.....

Pve, look at the layout of Kalimdor vs the Eastern Kingdoms, go to far north while questing in Lakeshire / Redridge and see what happens.

I am right, one more example, look at the pictures / screenshots of the developers testing new content. mmmmhmmmmm I saw the sign and it opened up my mind I saw the sign.

[Dhoum]

Tarren mill gets raided/attacked once for every 50 times SS gets hit.
I can assure you that those figures are reversed on EU Burning Blade. It's all dependant on which realm you're on, yes players killing flight masters and quest givers is annoying, yes having a higher level character continually gank you even though they get no honour for it, is annoying but it's the way things are.

On PVE realms there are still NPC-ganking issues but at least on a PVP server you can call in your own artillery to help you out ... on PVE the gankers can stay blue and still kill NPCs to their heart's content.

I wish there was a penalty for killing key NPCs and for honourless kills, sadly there isn't and it's something that every one of us has to deal with at some point. Somebody holding a town hostage? Call in your own level 70s to sort it out, that's the nature of the game.

[Tikki]

*takes a big whiff* smell that folks? That's some good ol' PvP.

When it comes down to it - city capturing is part of the game. Some people who are naturally evil, like myself, LOVE IT. If I'm in a city where there's a level ?? manipulating everyone's time, I normally died, watch for a minute or two giggling with evil excitement, rez, run to griffin, die, return to body, rez when ?? is occupied, griffin out of there.

Stuff like this lights the fire under you to lvl up. and when you do, and can have wicked PvP, and it's worth it.

My bf and I will often take over Sunrock Retreat (I think that's the name of the horde place in the Stonetalon Mountains). I think if you look carefully enough, you'll find an equal number of horde and alliance places that can easily be taken. It's not Blizzard's fault that the highly occupied Alliance territories are the ones with sketchy guards.

that's just what you get sometimes :)

[Qwertius]

I think it adds to the lore. One evil dude (perspective) comes in and lays waste to the town. Is there not someone out there brave enough to free the villagers? What server are you on? Everytime one guy does this a call goes out and then you have a dozen guys coming in to kill him/her. It seems to me that there are not enough heroes on your server and too many inspecting their own l33t gear.


so true

No way a enemy lvl 70 would be able to do this for an HOUR. if he goes of for more than 15 minutes the CAVALRY should be arriving. eager to hunt him down. just call out for help, there should always be other lvl 70s on your side that enjoy this

[Stigg]

z0mg ! PvP on a PvP server ? No wai !

Seriously. If it bugs you that much, reroll.

Less qq more pewpew

and with these three statements, the thread should die.

[Wintrow]

OP: Wall of text crits forum for wtfbbqpwn damage.

[Chazers]

I don't mind the ganking thing very much. On my server, Black Dragonflight (I'm horde), when I was questing in hillsbrad through the 20s, I would get ganked daily minor-moderate amounts, and Tarren Mill would be attacked nearly daily. Luckily, 70s would always come and settle this out so the raiding didn't go on for very long. Ganking will be there and even though it's not fun when a 70 ganks you, you'll be happy when that lowbie walks by and you can return the favor.

It also balances out with 70s helping. For instance, two level 36s (I was level 30 at the time) killed me off guard when I was fighting mobs. They then attempted to camp for a bit, so I waited until they left before rezzing. Later on, I was afk near the road and when I came back, a level 24 NE priest walked by me (I being about level 31 then) . I took the opportunity.

I killed him, and camped him. I slayed the poor Night Elf while he was trying to flee three more times, angered by the other level 36s (who happened to be NEs) who killed me. I showed pretty bad behavior too. I would use aspect of the cheetah to run by him, and I would freeze trap him before he died and /danced by his frozen self, making him watch. Finally, he made it over the border into Hillsbrad and was able to rez in South Shore.

Anyways, I learned my lesson when, under a minute later, a level 70 Night Elf rogue killed me instantly, most likely one of that 24 night elf's friends or an Alliance player who said he would help him. I sat at my body waiting to respawn while the rogue camped around my body on his mount for over ten minutes. Luckily, he eventually took off and a level 70 killed him for me :).

But I digress, and what I'm trying to say is that pvp can be fun, and it's a win-lose situation. If no one held SS hostage and Alliance ganked and raided Tarren Mill everyday, would you really, honestly be fed up with the Alliance doing this?

Anyways, hopefully you can have more alliance join your server, that should fix the problem somewhat.

[xDarkDrifterx]

*takes a big whiff* smell that folks? That's some good ol' PvP. :)

Word Tikki!

:thumbsup:

[unbdm]

I agree with the OP, I don't go to southshore anymore unless it's on my 70. I used to like to quest / grind in the areas, but it's not worth it. At least at STV you have a chance of it not being overun by 70s.... maybe that's just my server, but southshore is a waste of time now for leveling, IMHO.

Barry

[SirBazturd]

I just dinged 30 in RL today and I like camping alliance towns with my 70 rogue. It isn't just the kids out there doing it!!!

[cyradis2003]

Its not that I mind dying, or even getting ganked. Its the fact that someone specifically targets quest givers and flight masters in areas where players and guards are 20 lvls or more below them, for an hour or sometimes (sentinel hill) hours on end.

I can't see 1 or 2 14 year olds getting their jollies to be more important than 15-20 players not getting their money's worth out of a game they also pay for just becuase someone is killing the quest giver they need to continue what they were doing. all I'm saying is blizz should do something to make it less enticing to kill essential npcs. Guards and town folk, heck, even vendors is fine, just give them something to prevent them from continually slaughtering quest givers and flight masters. Doing it once or twice I can let slide, but to be there for 30 minutes or more trying to get a flight path for the first time and someone keeps attacking and killing the grif master, thats just too much.
In the end it hampers the fun of the lower lvl players and may end up costing blizz some revenue. so many seem to miss the differentiation between an actual raid, and griefing/camping.

Goldshire guards are what 30-40 on elite? I remember the first time i got close to brill when i got lost trying to find sm the first time. lvl 45-50 elites slaughtered me.

It wouldn't be that bad to make towns harder to take, only more challenging for those who say they do it as a challenge. Where's the challenge in killing grey mobs?

I'm not asking to make pvp pve, I like pvp, i accept the gankings, I just want something doen to make such griefing harder.

Crossroads on a pvp server is virtually unplayable most days. Sunrock is camped 9 days out of 10. Tarren Mill is constantly under attack by 70's. 2 lvl 50+ can hold the elevators at Freewind. On my server at least the alliance outnumber us 3 to 1 and the bored lvl 70's will make sure you can't quest and that any instance that is worth doing is going to be hell to get into.

Cuts both ways.

[bwirum]

I just dinged 30 in RL today and I like camping alliance towns with my 70 rogue. It isn't just the kids out there doing it!!!

Hey, hey, hey! Happy birthday!

[Shellar]

No way a enemy lvl 70 would be able to do this for an HOUR. if he goes of for more than 15 minutes the CAVALRY should be arriving. eager to hunt him down. just call out for help, there should always be other lvl 70s on your side that enjoy this
Unless, of course, you happen to find yourself on the wrong end of 5:1 population imbalance.

[bwirum]

Which, sadly, happens all too often...

[unbdm]

I just dinged 30 in RL today and I like camping alliance towns with my 70 rogue. It isn't just the kids out there doing it!!!

well, I'm sure it helps you deal with your insecurity issues... don't wory, with therapy I'm sure you can get it together if you apply yourself.

[NOYB]

That's an unfair shot. It's a game. There is absolutely nothing wrong with what he's doing. There's always a solution to campers, and calling them insecure or whining isn't it.

[Zendarin]

I don't get it - this is not a horde vs. alliance issue and it is not anti-PVP. It is griefing - targeting FP and quest NPC's just to harrass. It's not even real PVP.

Not only that - the OP gave a very real solution that would benefit BOTH horde and alliance. Capturing towns would still go on as normal, PVP would still go on as normal, but you would not get ppl camping the FP and quest NPC's over and over just to %*(&^ with you.

Tikki - I understand the thrill you get but you mentioned rezzing and hopping on a griff - how do you do that when the Gryphon Master is continuously dead?

Yes the obvious answer is the "defense" channel - but I feel the OP makes a very good point and even offers a very viable solution. Instead of all the "qq" posts how about giving some honest consideration to the problem and solution.

just my 2 coppers.

[unbdm]

That's an unfair shot. It's a game. There is absolutely nothing wrong with what he's doing. There's always a solution to campers, and calling them insecure or whining isn't it.

oh please... anybody that doesn't get bored of ganking lowbies has issues... nothing unfair about my comment. why don't you go tie the tails of cats together or something...

Reminds me of the Sienfield episode where Kramer is taking Karate lessons with a bunch of young kids... when Jerry gives him a hard time about being proud of himself for winning in sparing, Kramer replies "we're the same skill level"....

Barry

[Tikki]

Tikki - I understand the thrill you get but you mentioned rezzing and hopping on a griff - how do you do that when the Gryphon Master is continuously dead?

Well, there are several methods of escaping if the griffin master is dead. You can rez and hearth...if your hearth is set for that area, you can rez behind something or far enough away that you can make your escape. it may take a few times...but you'll get away ;)

[NOYB]

oh please... anybody that doesn't get bored of ganking lowbies has issues... nothing unfair about my comment. why don't you go tie the tails of cats together or something...

Reminds me of the Sienfield episode where Kramer is taking Karate lessons with a bunch of young kids... when Jerry gives him a hard time about being proud of himself for winning in sparing, Kramer replies "we're the same skill level"....

Barry

More ad hominem arguments please. I like how you avoid that people that roll on PvP servers agree to this behavior when they choose to create their toon. (Whether they realize it or not.)

This linking of personal behavior to video games. Sounds like something the 700 club would come up with. I'll bet you think rock and roll is the work of the devil too. :)

[Gavriel]

oh please... anybody that doesn't get bored of ganking lowbies has issues... nothing unfair about my comment. why don't you go tie the tails of cats together or something...

Correct me if I am mistaken, please, but I believe the unfairness came from the inference that somebody who kills a player of a lower level has self esteem issues. This does not necessarily have to be the case.

I tend to dislike this type of behavior as well, were it to happen on a PvE server. Players there sign up under the assumption that they will have the freedom to quest and only participate in PvP on a voluntary, opt-in basis. Whilst this will not directly flag them for PvP, it does disrupt their gameplay - something those players have specifically rolled Normal to avoid. If this happens on a PvP server however, you might even find me behind the helm. Virtually anything and everything becomes fair play then, as long as you are prepared to pay the price when their guildies come to collect.

[unbdm]

More ad hominem arguments please. I like how you avoid that people that roll on PvP servers agree to this behavior when they choose to create their toon. (Whether they realize it or not.)

This linking of personal behavior to video games. Sounds like something the 700 club would come up with. I'll bet you think rock and roll is the work of the devil too. :)

again, you fail to reckognize the point, I'm not saying it's against the rules, I'm saying the people have self esteem issues if they don't quickly bore of it.

Speaking of rock and roll... in guitar hero I can ace every song if I use easy mode... I can't do it on the harder settings... I know the analogy would be a stretch for you, but I get bored on the easy settings, but it is perfectly legal for me to keep it on easy. The discuions is on behavoir or jerks, not rules of the game; I'm only commenting on the likely motivation.

Barry

[unbdm]

Correct me if I am mistaken, please, but I believe the unfairness came from the inference that somebody who kills a player of a lower level has self esteem issues. This does not necessarily have to be the case.



I certainly agree, my comments is on people that seem to take joy in doing for long peroids of time, and on a regular basis.

Of course I'm over simplifying this, you are right, it is far more complex, we wouldn't need doctors if I could diagnose in a silly forum thread, they may not have self esteem issues; but really, most bullies do have self esteem issues, that is a well regarded fact. I'm suggesting this behavior is that of a bully. My intent was to call the birthday boy 30 year old out on this, not every self rightious dudly due right that wants to reference the rules for PvP servers in the form of a hypotheical discusion... lets here from the tough guy that likes to camp lowbies...

Best Regards,
Barry

[moopy]

I refer you fine people to my belf patrol (http://wow.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4021448) thread. What the idiot belfadin didn't realise was that the 20something hunter and 40something warrior friend that he was harassing were just little alts. When they turned into a warlock and hunter in purples, he left town so fast, you couldn't see him for dust. Happy day.

[Tikki]

ooh unbdm....*sigh* ... what are we going to do with you?

Do you enjoy first person shooter games? Do you enjoy playing them multiplayer? Perhaps you play with your best friend, and he's just not that great, but you both enjoy playing...you kill him 67.89% of the time, making it very obvious that you're the better player. Do you quit if he keeps asking you to play? Perhaps it's a challenge to him. I doubt you'd quit playing, simply because you BOTH find the premise of the game fun. This is much like PvP - everyone who plays PvP knows what it's about - knows the rules, the happen'ins, the game play. There's bound to be players out there that have skills, armour, weapons, and lvls to their advantage. But both players who interact in PvP, whether it's two lvl 70's, or a lvl 70 and a lvl 40, are playing PvP, both enjoy PvP, and both accept that there will be, at times, unfair advantages.

PvP is much like life - sometimes poop happens. Life's unfair, and at times PvP is unfair. The good thing about PvP is it's a choice- not a predetermined type of play - you can CHOOSE not to play PvP.

To say that people who camp others have psychological problems is not only preposterously, but down-right NEUROTIC. (yeah, I used my Freudian knowledge on your bum). If you think people who camp players have psychological problems, then you’d have to say the people who get camped, and keep playing, also do. They must be push overs, taking all that bullying and not doing something about it…man, if you think about it, PvP servers must just be filled with all kinds of psychologically disturbed people.

And for one thing, low self esteem is not classed in the same “issue” as tying cats tails together. Low self-esteem is something that everyone experiences which makes it a normal issue; harming helpless animals is, in most cases but perhaps not yours, is a rare psychological disorder where psychopathic issues are present. If you think everyone who uses their advantages to defeat something/someone has psychological issues then you’re opening a whole giant can of slimy worms.

PvP is NOT bullying since camping/ganking is something that players are AWARE of when they enter a PvP realm – they are choosing to take that chance when they do.

I need morning coffee. Oh and you might want to spellcheck your posts when you're discussing a serious, name calling topic. It makes you sound a bit more believable and a little less red neck.

[moopy]

Wow, Tikki, you go!

(Oh, and PvP servers are doubtless filled with "all kinds of psychologically disturbed people", is it not said that "everyone is someone else's weirdo"? :-)

Kickass post all-round though, kicking the facile barrack-room psychology well into touch. Not sure if I agree with all of it, but I'm not stupid enough to try and stop a runaway express train. Now I'm going to find somewhere safe to hide until it blows over..

[cyradis2003]

I certainly agree, my comments is on people that seem to take joy in doing for long peroids of time, and on a regular basis.... lets here from the tough guy that likes to camp lowbies...

Best Regards,
Barry

Is this Barry the Polar Bear?

Barry the Notorious PK'er rights activist from D2 Hardcore? At least when someone kills you in WOW you pop back up and go on with your gaming experience eventually. In D2 HC the people that the bear ate never popped back up. The gear was lost, the toon dead forever and ALL the time was lost .... the day was ruined.

Make an alt and if your main gets camped go play the alt in another area.

[unbdm]

It makes you sound a bit more believable and a little less red neck.

but I am a redneck... I don't think pulling the PvP server argument or comparing a FPS game where somebody wins the majority of the time even slightly compares to a lv 70 camping lv 25s....

Of course if you were to read all of my posts you might have realized I didn't think I was actually making a clinical diagnosis, more making the point that I think this behavior is 'jerk like', and akin to bullying... and self esteem issues are generally regarded as a significant contributor to bully behavior. Again, you can make all the arguments you want around the side topics, but you’re missing the point.

Speaking of rednecks... you make me think of an episode of 'king of the hill' where some social worker tried to take Hank Hill's kid away... the social worker was some dweebie self righteous social worker from LA... conflicting perspectives, but a funny episode. Anybody see that one? The social worker new all the right words, even the laws, but in the end, was just a self righteous dweeb.

But alas... I can honestly say I have never been camped like some people describe it. Maybe I was just lucky, but to me, camping has been a 10 minute inconvenience at the most... But SouthShore has become bad lately, to the point where it's a waste of time for leveling.... although no more than a 10 minute inconveniences. So I guess I'm arguing from a hypothetical perspective also, and assuming an extreme situation I have never actually encountered, but have only heard described.

Go camp some lv 25s with your 70, I think you're messed up in the head if you do it for a long period, and on a regular basis, classify it how you want Tikki.

Barry

[Tikki]

I never said you were making a clinical diagnosis, I was more or less pointing out your really inappropriate comment where you associated tying cats tails together with people who have low self-esteem – you implied that they stem from the same ‘issues’, which, to any lay person who holds any tiny piece of logic would know is completely absurd! My main point was that people KNOW what they’re getting into when they CHOOSE to play on a PvP server. With that said, people should not complain and/or criticize the play that goes on when players are completely legal (as in following the rules set by Blizzard) in their actions. There’s always way to continue playing when you’re getting ganked/camped – I’ve listed a few of my strategies.

I just blew a kiss to a stranger in the clinic because I wasn’t thinking…he was a 60 year old man that gave me the WEIRDEST look….damn you guys for getting me so wrapped up in this.

Anyways – ganking/camping isn’t bullying because implies that you are a victim of unknowing/unwanted behaviour. Since people choose to play PvP they can’t say that the PvP play is bullying – or so I think.

It’s all opinion, I just don’t think it’s correct to put down people who enjoy the legal game play that PvP offers.

And I actually don't have a lvl 70. I have a level 42 though...which still gets camped.

Moopy: don't be scared :) I'm just a teddy bear! mwah mwah!

And I like to gank/camp players for a period of time - does that make me crazy? I'm normal as normal can be!!! :)

[irogue]

Why a level 11 blood elf rogue would sap every alliance (70s too) in booty bay for 6 hours? Why a level 70 undead rogue would kill lowbies at the Menethil harbor (wetlands) or Southshore for hours?

Don’t they have better things to do in game or real life?

You honestly don’t think those ppl have issues (stress, fights with wife/husband/bf/gf, not doing well at work/school, disappointed about yourself)? You must be kidding me. Do you grief ppl when you are in a good mood? No, you let them live or you even help them.

On the other hand, I really appreciate that WOW keeps those ppl in game so they won’t go out and key my car, brick my car windshield, shoot neighbor’s dogs with BB guns, spit in my mail box, or pee in my garden.

Thank your WOW PVP servers and please keep the way it is.

:smiley:

[Kaldresh]

Of course if you were to read all of my posts you might have realized I didn't think I was actually making a clinical diagnosis, more making the point that I think this behavior is 'jerk like', and akin to bullying... and self esteem issues are generally regarded as a significant contributor to bully behavior. Again, you can make all the arguments you want around the side topics, but you’re missing the point.

Aside from the fact that Tikki is an online friend of mine and I think her post kicked ass, you're kind of wandering all over the lot here. There can be a few reasons for bullying behavior, one of which is repeating what one has experienced. As in some L70 griefed someone so bad that now they go around doing it and have discovered the enjoyment of the one thing we all want but refuse to acknowledge publicly: power. Enjoying power is not necessarily a self-esteem issue. And since that's the whole point of the game, garnering power, I'm at a loss as to where the gross generalization of self-esteem issues comes from anyway. A great many people will happily tell you that anyone who spends enough time at one game to level up to 70 has self-esteem issues to begin with. Hmmm.....

Secondly, in case you're not aware of it, when you have two factions constantly on the precipice of war, absolute domination is the norm - because that's how you win a war. Umm... duh.

Thirdly, as has been pointed out, all players on a PvP server know exactly what they are buying into. If L70s griefing/camping for an hour at a time bothers you because OMG you might actually have to go to a *different* place to level, then don't roll on a PvP server. Another duh.

Speaking of rednecks... you make me think of an episode of 'king of the hill' where some social worker tried to take Hank Hill's kid away... the social worker was some dweebie self righteous social worker from LA... conflicting perspectives, but a funny episode. Anybody see that one? The social worker new all the right words, even the laws, but in the end, was just a self righteous dweeb.

Left-handed attacks are really rather conspicuous. You didn't really think no one would notice did you?

But alas... I can honestly say I have never been camped like some people describe it. Maybe I was just lucky, but to me, camping has been a 10 minute inconvenience at the most... But SouthShore has become bad lately, to the point where it's a waste of time for leveling.... although no more than a 10 minute inconveniences. So I guess I'm arguing from a hypothetical perspective also, and assuming an extreme situation I have never actually encountered, but have only heard described.

I see.... so you're just throwing out an opinion on something you have no experience with. Uh huh. Interesting. I think that's an indication of self-esteem issues.... See? Anyone can say it about anything.

Go camp some lv 25s with your 70, I think you're messed up in the head if you do it for a long period, and on a regular basis, classify it how you want Tikki.

And as soon as I roll an alt on Tikki's server and level that sucker up, I'll be helping her do it - self-esteem issues notwithstanding. Maybe we'll run into you. :wave:

Oh, and Tikki - as to being normal.... don't get carried away, hon. You're stretching the bounds of believability there. :p

[unbdm]

Anyways – ganking/camping isn’t bullying because implies that you are a victim of unknowing/unwanted behaviour. Since people choose to play PvP they can’t say that the PvP play is bullying – or so I think.



well, that explains the heart of our disagreement I think. I believe that long periods of camping on a regular basis is bully behavior, regardless of the legalities within the game. Further, being that low self esteem is a regular contributor to bully behavior, I draw the simple conculsion that this type of behavior = low self esteem... of course this is a far too simple of a conclusion for all cases, but it's the model I'll stick with until I'm convinced otherwise.

As to cat’s tails, you may be right; I was more trying to provide an analogy of a helpless victim; although an extreme and disturbing analogy, that was the point.

Barry

[Tikki]

you go kaldresh!!! WOooo!!! We'll totally dominate Executus someday! muuahahahahahaha! Do you know why? Because we're wicked! And sexy! And totally rock! *slaps bum* mMmmhmMm! Take that!
----
I don't think these PvP people have anymore issues than someone who plays any type of video game for hours on end. To say someone is different/weird/problematic for how they play the game is what i have a problem with...How involved someone is with a game - well that's a different story. If you're playing it for hours on end, then I think you should evaluate what you're doing...or what you're not doing. But that can be said for anyone who does anything in excess. Excessive ganking, like excessive eat, golfing, movie watching, burping, pooping, hopping, yelling, singing, etc probably waves a little flag of caution. But enjoying camping and ganking and wining and dominating is...well....human nature. Like Kaldresh said, in war you must have power and dominate. What about police officers who, everyday, enforce their power on people who break the law? As a matter of fact, that horde over there is killing my boar (even though it's 20 levels below me, it's still my boar) and one of the 10 commandments is "thou shall not covet another mans property", therefore he's breaking the law and I shall inflict my enforcing ability of him!! .. in some distant and strange way, I see the connect. In WoW, it's a war - horde vs alliance. How should your play be different than how it's done in real life?

There's SOOOO many people that complain about ganking/camping on PvP servers, but that's part of the play there. You're choosing to take that risk when you sign up. Just because you fall victim to it doesn't mean the hunter is wrong. If you're going to judge someone for having issues, judge the player who wears diapers so they can play 12 hours straight without moving.

I have one final thing to say that sums up my feelings

Don't hate the game - hate the playa.

Peace out.

----

well, that explains the heart of our disagreement I think. I believe that long periods of camping on a regular basis is bully behavior, regardless of the legalities within the game. Further, being that low self esteem is a regular contributor to bully behavior, I draw the simple conculsion that this type of behavior = low self esteem... of course this is a far too simple of a conclusion for all cases, but it's the model I'll stick with until I'm convinced otherwise.

Lets think of it like this...when boxers go into the ring and fight, is the person who wins a bully? ah. no. why you ask? because the other person agreed to fight. PvP is an agreement to allow yourself to be ganked in order for you to have the ability to gank others.

If a group of guys decided to playball paint together...and there is this one little guy that just isn't fast, isn't a good shot and had really cheap gear, should the other players not take advantage of that mans misfortune? I mean the point of the game is to shoot people. Is someone who does take advantage of this poor guy's misfortune, regardless of the number of times they do, a bully?

If people can't handle losing - then they should play AGAINST people.

As to cat’s tails, you may be right; I was more trying to provide an analogy of a helpless victim; although an extreme and disturbing analogy, that was the point.

well my apologies.
it was a poor analogy.

[Teargas]

I'm sure it probably does get annoying and frustrating, getting ganked repeatedly and held hostage. Doesn't sound fun, but everyone who plays on a PvP server deals with something like this regularly. It might seem a little bit unfair, but I think that's what PvP servers are really designed for. It's really the excitement. Some people enjoy it. =\

Edit: Spelling ^^;

[Kaldresh]

you go kaldresh!!! WOooo!!! We'll totally dominate Executus someday! muuahahahahahaha! Do you know why? Because we're wicked! And sexy! And totally rock! *slaps bum* mMmmhmMm! Take that!


Of course we rock! Executus should be very afraid..... hehehe

As my sweet old granny used to say: If you don't like how the game is played, then don't freakin play. OK, so maybe she wasn't that sweet... but you get the point.

[Tikki]

Of course we rock! Executus should be very afraid..... hehehe

As my sweet old granny used to say: If you don't like how the game is played, then don't freakin play. OK, so maybe she wasn't that sweet... but you get the point.

hahaha Go Granny Go!!!! I like her! And they should be afraid! muahahaha :grin:

[bwirum]

For the record, and if nothing else then for the sake of the argument, I'd like to present my full support to Barry on the subject. Go Barry!

[unbdm]

Lets think of it like this...when boxers go into the ring and fight, is the person who wins a bully? ah. no. why you ask? because the other person agreed to fight. PvP is an agreement to allow yourself to be ganked in order for you to have the ability to gank others.

If a group of guys decided to playball paint together...and there is this one little guy that just isn't fast, isn't a good shot and had really cheap gear, should the other players not take advantage of that mans misfortune? I mean the point of the game is to shoot people. Is someone who does take advantage of this poor guy's misfortune, regardless of the number of times they do, a bully?

If people can't handle losing - then they should play AGAINST people.



well my apologies.
it was a poor analogy.

PvP wasn't the issue though, the issue was higher level players camping lower level for extended periods of time. I was bringing forth that I believe the motivation for extreme cases of such behavior is personal distress. At the risk of being overly dramatic, bullies on the school bus also learn the rules, and how to stay within them, and still manage to intimidate their victims.... of course you can't log off the school bus, but the motivation for the behavior is the same.

Barry

PS thanks bwirum...

[Tikki]

yeah, but kids have no choice to be on the school bus. you can choose to play on other servers - hence, PvP is not bullying. If you don't like something, don't put yourself in that situation.

camping itself- part of the game. spending all the time doing one thing, be it camping/eating/karate - is not healthy for anybody.

NOooOOoOO bwirum!!! Come to the dark psychoic side...muaahahahhahah!!
if you don't, we're going to tie your tongue in a knot and fear you around the room..muahahahahahahahahahahah!!!

just kidding...*hugs and kisses for all*

[Kaldresh]

NOooOOoOO bwirum!!! Come to the dark psychoic side...muaahahahhahah!!


Sorry bwirum - Tikki can't spell. It's the dark psychotic side... :)

I understand being excessively camped can be irritating.... but at the same time, labeling people with psychological issues simply because you can't play the game the way *you* want to is whining taken to a new level, particularly when you can go to a different server and not have that problem. "Everyone should play the way *I* think they should play - for my convenience (even if my convenience means rewriting the rules for the server I'm on) - and if you don't - well you have self-esteem issues." Ummm... right. Meglomania much?

It's how the PvP servers are designed to play. Get over it.

[Tikki]

lol thank you kaldresh!

I have to type super fast and post secretly since my bosses are all around! I often, if not ALWAYS, miss my typos/mess up...

darn...it really took away from my evilness, didn't it? :p

[Eratia]

I believe the motivation for extreme cases of such behavior is personal distress

I think you are probably taking the association of griefing with bullying way too far. Griefing has in-game consequences, but seldom any real world consequences. Bullying does have real world consequences and, as you point out yourself, you can't log out of the school bus and go and play on one of your alts.

PvP realms are deeply unfair. Speaking personally, this is what I find attractive about them. Once you are in contested territory you know you are fair game for anyone. It's a bit of a rush and makes the game really emotionally involving, even if that emotion = seething with rage over being camped.

As far as killing NPCs and quest-givers go... meh... they respawn in 10 minutes or so and I believe you can report a player who repeatedly kills quest-givers.

[Tikki]

even if that emotion = seething with rage over being camped.

i experience that emotion quite regularly - isn't it great? :grin:

[Nucflash]

Long time lurker, this may be my first or second post (not sure). Throughout this thread I keep seeing the word "legal" being used in some context. IMHO, Just because something is legal, doesn't make it right.

It's "legal" for the government to steal a third of your income and give it to someone else, but that doesn't make it right.

It's "legal" to kill your dog (if you wanted to) but that doesn't make it right.

It's "legal" to invade any aspect of your privacy that "certain officials" deem "necessary" but that doesn't make it right. The list goes on and on.

I personally don't have a problem with getting ganked...it's annoying, but cest la vis'. Being camped for hours on end though, gets old fast.

[Kaldresh]

I personally don't have a problem with getting ganked...it's annoying, but cest la vis'. Being camped for hours on end though, gets old fast.


I'm sure it does - that's why I don't play on a PvP server :) But that's when it's time to go play your alt. Hmm..... potential guild name: My Main Is Being Ganked

[Eratia]

i experience that emotion quite regularly - isn't it great?

haha... no, I really think it is in a way. It's a great motivator for levelling. And even if you aren't roleplaying the anger you feel towards the opposite faction is totally immersive.

[Tikki]

I was using the term legal to explain that, according to Blizzard's games rules - these actions are permitted and that players are doing nothing wrong.

Perhaps this is all a moral debate. What one person finds alright might not be want another does. Kind of like justice, right?

The thing about PvP, is that if someone ganks/camps you, there's nothing stopping someone else ganking/camping that individuals that's doing it to you. it's a dog eat dog world. There's little guys and big guys. Little guys can always become big. Just because you don't like to gank/camp, doesn't mean others can't - and shouldn't enjoy it.

to say these actions are bullying and such is kind of a pansy move. change to a server where you don't have the choice to pvp.

-- kaldresh : lol LOOOVE the guild name.
--eratia : that's why I love it. lights a fire under me to level up and kick some ba'touse! :)

[unbdm]

to say these actions are bullying and such is kind of a pansy move. change to a server where you don't have the choice to pvp.



To not reckonize regular camping of lowbies for extended time as a bullyish behavior is a "pansy move"... If this is what the discusion has come to, I guess it's about over.

Why would somebody that enjoys world PvP want to change servers? World PvP and extreme cases of camping lowbies are not the same thing.

Barry

[Tikki]

reckonize ... the discusion .... I guess it's about over.

Barry

fair enough!

each to their own.

[Stigg]

Oh dear Tikki, you make quite a few big statements here. How are the corpse runs in Searing Gorge? How about being camped at Marshal's Refuge? How about trying to complete the Pirates quests in Tanaris with a 70 collecting Mageweave? How long does it take to corpse hop to UBRS?

[Mirinda]

I went to Southshore to help a guildie who couldn't get away because three 70 Horde rogues were killing the flight master and everyone they could tempt into flagging themselves. What a bunch of cowards. When I started blowing them up, they started coming at me three at a time, blowing all their cooldowns at once. They chugged potions to avoid death. They tried to camp me. Then they had the gall to report me to a GM! For what? I wonder how that turned out, because my guild all informed the GM of the three's harassment of lowbies in Southshore.

[Thargos]

World PvP isn't harassment.

[xDarkDrifterx]

One of the main reasons people camp lowbies is in hopes that they will call for help from others or get on their main (if they have one) - hopefully high levels will come to help that the ganker can then battle against. World pvp isn't always easy to come by depending on the server that you're on, so generally the easiest way to get people to "bring the calvary" is to attack lowbie towns, then hope for the slow arrival - a few at a time, of higher level toons, instead of say, attacking SW or UC.

doesn't have anything to do with psychology etc . . . geez . . . lol

[unbdm]

doesn't have anything to do with psychology etc . . . geez . . . lol

probably true... just low self esteem...

[Kaldresh]

probably true... just low self esteem...

Gotta love a person with a sense of humor. Good for you!

[xDarkDrifterx]

probably true... just low self esteem...

Personally, I really think my point is the reason - a lot of people I know including myself have done this to draw out higher levels (but it's just my opinion oviously.)

Why do they do it for hours on end? . . .becuase they are the same kids that at level 68 (with their main) say in guild chat or general . . "I'm bored" - how anyone could be bored with this game is beyond on me - but yet they are. I get bored with raiding lowbies town failry quickly and like to move on to the next bigger town untill we eventually get stopped, but these kids - especially running solo - don't care about the challenge once the higher levels haven't shown up.

______


But, keep on keeping on with your low self esteem commentary - what ever makes you feel better . . . lol <-- see what I did there :wink:

[Zendarin]

man, if you think about it, PvP servers must just be filled with all kinds of psychologically disturbed people.

Oh my gosh - Tikki - I think you have got it :grin: :tongue: :grin:

[caldepen]

There is absolutely no point in whining about this stuff. It's PVP! There is no such thing as ganking, camping or ninja'ing! Don't like it? Play Mariokart.

[Tikki]

Oh dear Tikki, you make quite a few big statements here. How are the corpse runs in Searing Gorge? How about being camped at Marshal's Refuge? How about trying to complete the Pirates quests in Tanaris with a 70 collecting Mageweave? How long does it take to corpse hop to UBRS?

Oh my little Stiggly ... *sigh* ...if you don't like it, change to a PvE serve :wink: I'm not saying it's not frustrating - hell, I've called a few idiots for what they were at the time, but I signed up for it - so I shan't complain when what I signed in to happens :afro:

And xDDx is right...when you camp someone you often getting people to come save them, and that's when the fun happens ;)

In Ashenvale, one lvl 70 will continuously clear Astranaar out until a few 70's come and take him out 3 or 4 times. I imagine that when you're at that level, that's one of the exciting things you can to - you can put your skills to the test.

it's all part of the game, not part of a deranged mind :) Although, most of us have one muuahahahaha

[Stigg]

Oh my little Stiggly ... *sigh* ...if you don't like it, change to a PvE serve :wink: I'm not saying it's not frustrating - hell, I've called a few idiots for what they were at the time, but I signed up for it - so I shan't complain when what I signed in to happens :afro:
Me thinks you missed the hidden message of my post.

[Tikki]

I just wanted to call you stiggly, stiggly.

and i did miss it...i've had a hard day. i'm running low on brain juice.

[Stigg]

Does that mean I can call you Tickly?

And no worries. I figured you would have missed it, as it was cleverly hidden in words and numbers and logic, intertwined with parallel universes, time machines and flux capacitors.

[odinsnephew]

Does that mean I can call you Tickly?

And no worries. I figured you would have missed it, as it was cleverly hidden in words and numbers and logic, intertwined with parallel universes, time machines and flux capacitors.

Aaah, until you mentioned the logic I thought I had it nailed.

You can call me Odinsly ;)

Good night Stiggly & Tickly :thumbsup:

/sleep

[bwirum]

Just to note: I believe that if someone repeatedly is killing off quest givers and flight master (otherwise known as essential NPC's for others gameplay) it constitutes harrasment and is a bannable offence. I seem to recall reading that somewhere, sometime, but I don't think I could be bothered checking atm, so just take it as an opinion.

[Dhoum]

If I don't get honour from a kill, I don't initiate an attack .. though if they attack me, all bets are off.
If I see someone twice my level attacking my guards, I'll stun them till I'm dead ... and then I'll stun them some more.
If I get ganked, I come back again and again and again (right over my corpse) ... I have more patience then any ganker I've ever met.
If I get beaten in an honourable fight, I sneak back and try to take revenge.


I agree with Unbdm.

Even idly killing a grey as you ride past them is no cause for praise or admiration ... after all, it's an honourless kill. Actually camping a grey though is cause for ridicule and I would be very free with my ridicule if I ever saw such behaviour from anyone in the Horde.

The Alliance don't know any better so one can't expect the same standard of behaviour from them.:wink:

[Sturmbringe]

I want to play in Tikki's server. Damn, sometimes I regret playing on a PvE server.

The last time a Horde guild raided SS on my server was back when ppl where just starting to gear in T2, GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR...I miss SS Horde raids. :(

Having spent the most part of 3 years playing WoW in doing outdoor PvP and mostly defending Alliance settlements and lowbies/newbies, I find that the frequency of outdoor PvP has decreased substantially following the launching of TBC in my PvE server.

Last time I played WoW was in May, just before I joined my present ship, and I used to spend my time hanging around Sentinel Hill, which on my server is Horde's favourite outdoor PvP raiding target, but had my HS set to Menethil so that I could travel quickly to Darnassus/Astranaar or SS if necessary.

Outdoor PvP gave me some of my most satisfactory moments in WoW.

A little advice to ppl who would like to do some outdoor PvP, and act the Alliance "Defender/Care Bear/Care Police":

-Switch on your Global Defence Channel.

-Set your Hearth Stone (HS) in Menethil Harbour. The reason for this is that from MH you can travel to the outdoor PvP hotspots faster than any other settlement in game. Outdoor PvP hotspots in my server are: Darnassus, Astranaar, Southshore, and Sentinel Hill.

This will enable you to spend most of your time in SH (which on my server gets raided every 30 minutes on average or so) and still be able to travel very fast to either SS or DN or Astra when somebody decides to attack. And if you get bored and nobody attacks, you can always catch the gryph and be in SW in 5' or so, in order to go join some BG to kill some of your time.

I don't really care what drives people to enjoy ganking lowbies. I feel grateful that such Hordies exist however, because they make me enjoy the game by chain-ganking them. Were it not for WoW punks (who happen to be mostly UD Rogues from my Alliance perspective) I would perhaps have quitted WoW long ago. To me, there is nothing so satisfactory and self-fulfilling as to help and/or rescue people who're in peril, in game.

I feel sorry, however, for people who play in PvP servers where their faction does not enjoy doing outdoor PvP. That may mean that they will often find themselves being griefed for hours on end whitout help.

My advice: Avoid rolling toons in underpopulated PvP servers, and go instead for high population, full PvP servers.

[chipmc]

I guess my server is somewhat dull in comparison. There's at least one alliance guild that tries to raid Undercity maybe once a week. They make it as far as the room with Sylvanas and Varimathras. Then get horribly pwned by them and any of the level 70's that happen to be in the city at the moment.

You'd think they'd learn one of these days...

[Quercus]

isnt it the same when allys attack XRs in the barrens because every day there is a attack on xrs on the other pvp server im on and im always killin them but its the same both ways

[Qwertius]

One of the main reasons people camp lowbies is in hopes that they will call for help from others or get on their main (if they have one) - hopefully high levels will come to help that the ganker can then battle against. World pvp isn't always easy to come by depending on the server that you're on, so generally the easiest way to get people to "bring the calvary" is to attack lowbie towns, then hope for the slow arrival - a few at a time, of higher level toons, instead of say, attacking SW or UC.

doesn't have anything to do with psychology etc . . . geez . . . lol


hehe. FINALLY somebody who understands this.. Listen to DarkDrifter guys.

[Dhoum]

You want some attention and a chance of PVP with equivalent levels? Attack Orgrimmar.

The only reason to attack the Crossroads is to flash your epeeen as you kill the level 40 guards and quest givers.:thumbsdown: