Pissed at blizzard

[Pwnzaurs]

hey guys
im pissed at there decicion to have no pre mades
im not a noob that has like 100 lowbies and my main is like a 30...my mains a 70 lock/70 warrior. but they dont have t6. or pew pew weapons.
i admit it, i went on 2.2 ptr just to get the free epics, try out new classes, and do bg's. atleast i found two bugs =p. better than none
but im pissed because im bored of normal wow. farm for this. make me this. do this. bladda bladda. on PTR i got free epics and i got to have more fun on wow than i have ever had ( well not ever. first time my guild fought raggy i allmost pissed my pants in joy)
so i guess i used PTR for wrong reason. but also for right reason.
blizz meant WoW to be fun right? im sure everyone that had a epic'd out ownage machine had fun. so i really wish they open up the pre mades for 2.3 or 2.4 = p.
i guess i like having good gear without spending 10 hours/day on wow haha.
only bad thing is that the noob kids scream obcenity's in general haha.

[Annub]

they have the idiots in general on EU servers too.

[Twoflower]

sigh

go play something else -.-

calling yourself pwnzerous and stating that you want pew pew uber epics whibout doing something for them. exactly the kind of players we need.

NOT.

[moopy]

*slams head on desk*

[Kugan]

Pwnzaurs always makes me smile. I’m not sure what the point of the post is, but I’ll give it a 9/10 for comic value.

[Lothaer]

mate im lvl 70, my /played is 100+ days and im still trying to get epiced out. but im not complaining.

[Wintrow]

Well, for me, I had fun playing with a premade... Good gear to compensate for my inexperience with the class (i mean, i do have a paladin, but he's far from L70 atm), epic flying mount to speed things up, what's not to like...? i tested a lot of stuff (even the voice-chat! :tongue:).

Still, no premades means I won't be stopping by, means I won't be testing. Which is exactly what blizzard is expecting. A bit sad for me, but nothing earthshattering.

[Malentra]

The problem with the test servers (this one and recent ones) is *too many testers*. I don't think Blizzard is crying over the fact people are not joining the PTRs just so they can try out some premades.

What they want (especially to test the class changes) is to see the effect of the balance changes across various gear levels. Also for testing Zul Aman, they want to see the difficulty of the instance for different types of players...T6, T5, T4, Kara, and pre-Kara.

Useless in complaining (especially here). If Blizzard thinks pre-mades will help, they'll add them.

Now if you think Blizzard should add a separate server for pre-made characters, then perhaps you should try the Blizzard suggestion forums. (not that this would be a new suggestion, by any stretch of the imagination)

[Morollan]

my mains a 70 lock/70 warrior

I had no idea there was dual-classing in WoW.

[rgirty]

For the first time I copied a char to the ptr.. I wouldn't do a premade if I could. Our 10 man raid core is copying over so that we can practice ZA and be familiar with it when it goes live.

We don't do kara much or at all anymore with those folks and gruul is one night.. Maybe a day or two for something else but that leaves 3-4-5 days for whatever else.

I want to see the priest changes anyhow.

[moopy]

The problem with the test servers (this one and recent ones) is *too many testers*. I don't think Blizzard is crying over the fact people are not joining the PTRs just so they can try out some premades.

That's exactly it- the copy queues are massive- shows that there's no shortage of willing victims. They want to test (among other things) a new instance- and thus want people who will be able to get through some bosses. This means they're looking for a mix of typical "real" gear, not fantastically geared premades. It also means you need people who more or less know how to play those characters- not a load of LOLm8s and pwnzaurs clones who don't know what they're doing. It's hard to tune the encounters for a typical player base when the testers are playing with significantly below-average skill. It's a sane methodology, shockingly.

ZA is designed as a slight step up from Kara for lv 70s. It would make no sense to have a load of premades in t5/6 rampaging through it. It would also be rather silly to have a load of overgeared premades wiping endlessly because the players concerned have never managed anything more organised than Scarlet Monastery. Neither would be terribly informative.

[swaldman]

For the first time I copied a char to the ptr.. I wouldn't do a premade if I could. Our 10 man raid core is copying over so that we can practice ZA and be familiar with it when it goes live.

I can understand that - especially if you don't do 25-man raids and are thus without new challenges at present.

Personally, I'm looking forward to discovering a new instance. There will be Glee, and I'd rather do it on a fully-polished version of the instance rather than a buggy one - hence I'll wait.

I do have a slight regret that people will be doing it on the PTR and publishing strategies... just once I'd like to attempt something *without* knowing exactly what to do first, but short of being in a world-first guild that seems to be impossible :-(

When I was levelling after TBC's release, I made a point of not reading up on the dungeons beforehand. Usually somebody else in the group had... one time, though, the first time I ever went to mana tombs, I happened to be in a pug where everybody had the same attitude. Yes, we wiped a little more than may have been necessary, but we had a lot of fun figuring it all out.

[rgirty]

I can understand that - especially if you don't do 25-man raids and are thus without new challenges at present.

We do gruuls lair and have went into the eye and plan ssc.

But why do all that before ZA if za loot is that good?

Why not use kara +badges and ZA+ badges to get the loot from each and springboard into those upper t4 and t5 instances.

The fact is, with za and badge loot the desire to spend hours learning those bosses is less.

i browse over their loot table and am underwhelmed.

It was great downing gruul.. but he drops the collar of LoL, some t4 legs that only a couple classes even want as well as well as a healer neck that is only decent.


ZA is new content AND for some classes some of the best loot in the game. It isn't BT or hyjal but it can help us get there.

[satarina]

i was thanking the gods that there are no premades this time around. that means that all the players who transferred characters are serious about actually testing the content, not running around in borrowed purples dueling everywhere and throwing "leet speak" around to prove how cool they are.

that said, i have done a couple of premades on the ptr for fun, but got bored quickly. i want to see what the patch changes are going to mean for my day to day play, not what a character someone else rolled/geared up is like. if i end up with epics, i want it to be because i earned those babies.

[Zendarin]

hey guys
im pissed at there decicion to have no pre mades
im not a noob that has like 100 lowbies and my main is like a 30...my mains a 70 lock/70 warrior. but they dont have t6. or pew pew weapons.
i admit it, i went on 2.2 ptr just to get the free epics, try out new classes, and do bg's. atleast i found two bugs =p. better than none
but im pissed because im bored of normal wow. farm for this. make me this. do this. bladda bladda. on PTR i got free epics and i got to have more fun on wow than i have ever had ( well not ever. first time my guild fought raggy i allmost pissed my pants in joy)
so i guess i used PTR for wrong reason. but also for right reason.
blizz meant WoW to be fun right? im sure everyone that had a epic'd out ownage machine had fun. so i really wish they open up the pre mades for 2.3 or 2.4 = p.
i guess i like having good gear without spending 10 hours/day on wow haha.
only bad thing is that the noob kids scream obcenity's in general haha.

Good. Be pissed and go away.

PTR is not your personal playground - you pay to play WOW period. The PTR is to help Blizzard tune the patch b4 releasing it. If you just want to play a premade and go pew pew with your fancy toys Blizz does not need or want you on the PTR realm - go away.

[Dhoum]

I'm slightly saddened that there will be no pre-mades. From a selfish point of view this is because I was looking forward to playing a part of the game that I very much doubt I'll ever see. I'm not particularly interested in wearing l33t epix that I didn't earn myself but if they would allow me to do a couple of raids then I'd be very happy to have them. The price for admission, as I see it, is keeping an eye open for bugs and reporting them as necessary.

Incidentally, the reason I doubt I'll ever see raid-end content is purely personal choice. I just don't want to commit myself to a raiding guild for any length of time (hence a couple of weeks on the PTRs would be ideal) and wouldn't feel comfortable pretending otherwise just so I could sneak in once or twice (and turn my name to mud on the server when I didn't come back). Of course, this might change in the future, but that's where I am now.

[Wintrow]

...It would also be rather silly to have a load of overgeared premades wiping endlessly because the players concerned have never managed anything more organised than Scarlet Monastery. Neither would be terribly informative.

HEY! SM is hard ya know :tongue:!

[Vulcanz]

join a private server if you want that sort of crap...

[moopy]

HEY! SM is hard ya know :tongue:!

It is- mostly because most PUGs at that level don't seem to have their class basics down at all- really damn hard to drag them through without wiping. Having to say "get down the steps and STAY THERE" before every single pull of the cathedral gets really old. For some reason, it's always a rogue (who will attack things before they're on the tank) that you have to yell at to get back- but that applies at every level.

[Twoflower]

you and your prejudice towards rogues :)

there are terrible players in every class. Ask the resto shaman who refused to put earth shield on me ( tank ) and always pulled whit chain lightening -.- damn i left this party asap ^^

[moopy]

Flowers,

It's not prejudice, it's experience. I thought a PUG would be a quick way to level a hunter pet over the weekend. It reminded me that PUG rogues rank slightly below mildew on the evolutionary scale. In both instances, the entire group was screaming at the rogue to get back into the right place repeatedly on every pull. The best rogue of all screwed up so many LoS pulls that we had to MD every single one of them to be sure the mobs would get to the tank at all- and every member of the party wanted him dead in a ditch by the first boss of Shadow Lab. The other party's rogue wasn't much better, constantly walking into idle groups, and then running back to the party with them instead of vanishing, needing to be told to get back repeatedly on every single pull.

It just reminded me that consistently, they are absolutely the worst-played class. No other class in the game has given groups more grief, or reacted with worse grace when the party has tried to modify their behaviour to meet some minimum standard- not even to do good DPS, just not to cause constant wipes.

People often roll rogues because they want an invisible ganking ninja, so sadly, it attracts a lot of a-holes. I feel really sorry for the folks with above room-temperature IQs who rolled rogue, must suck. I know I'd rather 4-man most instances than take a PUG rogue these days, as it makes it smoother, faster and safer. There's also considerably less stress and kiddy cursing.

[Krollin]

Don't toss all Rogues into the same hat please Moopy, we aren't all crap :P

I can think of plenty of useless Shaman, Priests, Warriors, Hunters etc, etc.

Useless players all of them.

The proportion of badly played Rogues is something of a mystery to me. Or are we still plagued by Legolas wannabees who are bored of the Hunter class?

[moopy]

Don't toss all Rogues into the same hat please Moopy, we aren't all crap :P

I know, Krollin, that's why I included the caveats, and why it makes me a sad panda. I play with a few awesome rogues (O HAI Buji and Danii :) who are a joy to have around- and I'm always fascinated by your rogue theorycrafting discussions- you're clearly a smart cookie also. However, I promise that it's absolutely true, 99% of PUG rogues need telling repeatedly to "get back" before every pull, not to screw up LoS pulls and everything else. I really would rather 4-man an instance than take a PUG rogue- at any level. I'm just glad that I don't play a rogue, as people would be justified in thinking I was an equal waste of intestines. I feel sorry for those that are- especially the Kugans of this world, levelling a rogue. You're probably OK, as you're safely in a raiding guild and don't need to PUG anymore.

The most irritating thing about PUG rogues isn't that they do everything wrong that you could possibly imagine, but they become pottymouthed tantrum-throwing eejits when people try and get them to actually play properly- this I really don't understand. I've not seen this with any other class- even your typical clueless PUG hunter is generally amiable enough. Sweeping generalisation, I know, but my sample size is pretty big now, sadly.

[Krollin]

I do sympathise with you on this one.

I have played with some truly awful Rogues myself and they do tend to cause total disasters. Not sure about the behaviour thing though, I have seen terrible things happen irrespective of class. Maybe I am just lucky.

However there must be substance in this wicked slander (libel?). I sometimes try and PuG stuff with my Rogue.
I am often met with some wild prejudices and often am told what I can and cannot roll for. Never mind the fact that I am actually only in the run for the chance to get shards and that my gear is better than anything you find in a normal run or most heroics.

Fortunately after the run I am also thanked for coming along and people have even been known to ask me to run with them again. Must be because I tend to stand with the Hunter when the pull happens and stealth to the tank.

[moopy]

Krollin,

We're actually agreeing. You sound like the sort of rogue I like to group with. However, they're so vanishingly rare that these days, I only discover good rogues by raiding with them :)

[Beruen]

I don't pre-judge rogues, but I don't set high expectations either. I've got rogue friends I love grouping with. I've also got rogue friends that I avoid, though I'll gladly play with their non-rogue alts. I'm firmly convinced that at least some of the party-destructive behavior has to do with the class itself, not the people that are drawn to the class. One of my friends is one of the most meticulous players I know. EXCEPT when he's playing his rogue.

The other party's rogue wasn't much better, constantly walking into idle groups, and then running back to the party with them instead of vanishing, needing to be told to get back repeatedly on every single pull.

Heh, try running back to the group and THEN vanishing (after the rest of the party came to his defense). Oh, was that a very embarrassed rogue, we all got a very sincere apology after that mess.

Or the rogue that, in a level appropriate stockades run came running up to the group just as we pulled three consecutive pulls, dragging an extra 3 or 4 mobs every time.

Rogues aren't the only class with problem players, but they certainly have more than their share. Still, it's really nice when you get a good one in the group. Of course, the same is true of the other classes as well.

[NOYB]

As I've said before. If you tank, you will develop a seething hatred for DPS. It's just the nature of the beast. I can picture most of the kiddies that roll a DPS class hopping in their chair rocking out to death metal with a total disregard to whatever I'm typing. It's sickening. It's really bad. I've come to the conclusion that most people that play this game have ADHD or always wired on methamphetamines.

[Kugan]

I know, Krollin, that's why I included the caveats, and why it makes me a sad panda. I play with a few awesome rogues (O HAI Buji and Danii :) who are a joy to have around- and I'm always fascinated by your rogue theorycrafting discussions- you're clearly a smart cookie also. However, I promise that it's absolutely true, 99% of PUG rogues need telling repeatedly to "get back" before every pull, not to screw up LoS pulls and everything else. I really would rather 4-man an instance than take a PUG rogue- at any level. I'm just glad that I don't play a rogue, as people would be justified in thinking I was an equal waste of intestines. I feel sorry for those that are- especially the Kugans of this world, levelling a rogue. You're probably OK, as you're safely in a raiding guild and don't need to PUG anymore.

The most irritating thing about PUG rogues isn't that they do everything wrong that you could possibly imagine, but they become pottymouthed tantrum-throwing eejits when people try and get them to actually play properly- this I really don't understand. I've not seen this with any other class- even your typical clueless PUG hunter is generally amiable enough. Sweeping generalisation, I know, but my sample size is pretty big now, sadly.

Don’t feel sorry for me. I’m probably worse than any of those Rogues that you’ve grouped with.

Sure, I know the theory about playing the class, but theory <> experience. This is my first DPS character, and I just haven’t gotten enough practice to get it right.

And I’ve caused a wipe in each instance I’ve been in. I still don’t know where to hide my head :embarassed:.

[moopy]

Pfft, Kugan- I am still betting you don't need telling multiple times before every pull to get back with the rest of the group, and not standing smack out in front so you can kidney shot ranged mobs that the tank is LoS pulling :) I also suspect that you understand the concept of attacking the tanked target..

[Kugan]

Pfffft. Don't be silly!

I stand in front of the tank so that I can cheap shot the mob. Kidney Shot needs combo points. :grin: :laugh:

[Dhoum]

When playing my Rogue (yes, I'm a s bad for alts as Zendarin :smiley:) I stand in front of the tank to get an Ambush in. Most PUG tanks tend to run forward to the mobs rather than let them run straight past me 90% of the time I'm out of position and my dps drops a ton. Of course it would help if I re-specced to Combat but it's a pretty raw deal when you need to respec because of the poor behaviour of another class.

I'm not the best Rogue player in the world by any means and yes, I've caused a wipe or two by not using Distract when I should have when sapping, but I do know what I'm doing with threat generation (I always give the tank a couple of seconds to generate threat before I do anything) ... it would just be nice if the tank would stand still on pulls so I can do my job without having to guess where he'll run to and place myself there.

[swaldman]

When playing my Rogue (yes, I'm a s bad for alts as Zendarin :smiley:) I stand in front of the tank to get an Ambush in. Most PUG tanks tend to run forward to the mobs rather than let them run straight past me

<snip>

... it would just be nice if the tank would stand still on pulls so I can do my job without having to guess where he'll run to and place myself there.

If I'm tanking I'll normally pull (however that may be), then perhaps run back towards the group if that is needed (e.g. for fear range, or if I've been body-pulling and just want some distance), and then run through the mobs to get them facing away from the bulk of the group.
I can imagine that that might be annoying for a rogue who thought that I would stand still with them facing toward the group, and was waiting to be behind them... but he should get used to it after a pull or three :-)

Of course, there are plenty of moronic PuG tanks as well...

[Kugan]

If I'm tanking I'll normally pull (however that may be), then perhaps run back towards the group if that is needed (e.g. for fear range, or if I've been body-pulling and just want some distance), and then run through the mobs to get them facing away from the bulk of the group.
I can imagine that that might be annoying for a rogue who thought that I would stand still with them facing toward the group, and was waiting to be behind them... but he should get used to it after a pull or three :-)

Of course, there are plenty of moronic PuG tanks as well...

Tanks who don’t pull scare me.

I’ve often wished that there was some sort of an X that I could put on the ground when I’m tanking. Sort of a “this is where I’m pulling them too, so this is where you should stand”.

[moopy]

I’ve often wished that there was some sort of an X that I could put on the ground when I’m tanking. Sort of a “this is where I’m pulling them too, so this is where you should stand”.

In a group which has the elusive "groove" that Twoflower wants to bottle, everyone will have a pretty good idea of where the tank will stand. It may even be said to be a clear symptom of "groove".

[swaldman]

Tanks who don’t pull scare me.

I’ve often wished that there was some sort of an X that I could put on the ground when I’m tanking. Sort of a “this is where I’m pulling them too, so this is where you should stand”.

Camp fires work :-)

You can also buy smoke flares that do this. I can't remember where from off the top of my head - possibly engineering suppliers?

OK, so neither is really practical (or necessary) for every pull in a pug, but for something important, it can work.

[Kugan]

In a group which has the elusive "groove" that Twoflower wants to bottle, everyone will have a pretty good idea of where the tank will stand. It may even be said to be a clear symptom of "groove".

But until you get to bottle it, the x would be a nice plan B. :laugh:

Camp fires work :-)

You can also buy smoke flares that do this. I can't remember where from off the top of my head - possibly engineering suppliers?

OK, so neither is really practical (or necessary) for every pull in a pug, but for something important, it can work.

Camp fires! That's brilliant. Such a shame it has a bit of a cast time. Can you remember if reckoning still procs of camp fire damage (and if self made camp fires damages you). Some extra damage as well if it does :P.

[odinsnephew]

Tanks who don’t pull scare me.

I’ve often wished that there was some sort of an X that I could put on the ground when I’m tanking. Sort of a “this is where I’m pulling them too, so this is where you should stand”.

Interesting. How about an emote like /lie or /sit etc for x marks the spot? Ive never thought about it before but it *almost* sounds feasible ;)

Just dont forget to get up :grin:

[swaldman]

Camp fires! That's brilliant.

*g* my old raiding group used to use them to mark boss tanking spots - helped healers to stay reliably at max range.

Can you remember if reckoning still procs of camp fire damage (and if self made camp fires damages you). Some extra damage as well if it does :P.

No idea to either, I'm afraid. Though I suspect (and I haven't done a talent calc yet) that 2.3 raid tanking builds won't include Reckoning :-( (too many other "essential" talents in the prot tree now)

[moopy]

Hunter flares. No, no hippy trousers...

When I've PUGged with my hunter in the past, I've often dropped a flare to point out areas for people- and it seems to help.

[Kugan]

....Just dont forget to get up :grin:
If you look at the 2.2 patch notes, I have to wonder why you would want me to do that:
* Illumination: Paladins will now correctly gain mana from this ability if they sit down to drink right after a healing crit, and receiving mana from this ability will no longer cause a Paladin who is sitting to stand up.
* Redoubt: This ability can now trigger while the Paladin is sitting.
* Reckoning: This ability can now trigger while the Paladin is sitting.

[swaldman]

If you look at the 2.2 patch notes, I have to wonder why you would want me to do that:
* Illumination: Paladins will now correctly gain mana from this ability if they sit down to drink right after a healing crit, and receiving mana from this ability will no longer cause a Paladin who is sitting to stand up.
* Redoubt: This ability can now trigger while the Paladin is sitting.
* Reckoning: This ability can now trigger while the Paladin is sitting.

Tehehehehe :-)

As a mini-hijack, can anybody (probably a priest!) explain exactly what sitting down does to regen rates?

I've noticed that when out of combat, if I sit my regen increases. I can't remember whether this is for both health and mana, or both.
I've never tested whether there is any effect inside the 5-second rule.... I assume not.

[odinsnephew]

Armchair tanking! Love it ;)

Are we sitting comfortably children? Then let battle commence :grin:

And Swaldman, I think we threadjacked this one a long time ago ;)

[moopy]

Well, I am still pissed at blizzard- my mechanical squirrel is a "companion" instead of a "minion", waaaa! (etc)

[Kugan]

Well, I am still pissed at blizzard- my mechanical squirrel is a "companion" instead of a "minion", waaaa! (etc)

That is just about the saddest thing I’ve ever heard. :hanky:

Since we are back on topic, I’m pissed at Blizzard because I have to level Herbalism. I mean… either you can pick a flower, or you can’t. What’s this stupid thing about improving your skill?

[moopy]

Because you have to... umm.. not squish all the natural goodness out, or something. Maybe picking an Audrey Two requires extra skill, too. Silly blizz.

That aside, herbalism is the single easiest thing to level. I have three herbalists (yes, count 'em) on one server alone- people are used to me being fixated with flowers. If I can't think of a primary to take, I pick flaaaaaaars by default, as I always need the potions and/or free money :)

[Twoflower]

people are used to me being fixated with flowers.

yeah, i noticed ... :P

[moopy]

Shush, dear, not in public!

[Xini]

hey guys
im pissed at there decicion to have no pre mades
im not a noob that has like 100 lowbies and my main is like a 30

Sorry to say this, but you cant have more than 50 characters per account :cry:

[WatcherZero]

Tehehehehe :-)

As a mini-hijack, can anybody (probably a priest!) explain exactly what sitting down does to regen rates?

I've noticed that when out of combat, if I sit my regen increases. I can't remember whether this is for both health and mana, or both.
I've never tested whether there is any effect inside the 5-second rule.... I assume not.

It increases Health regeneration a tiny bit but doesnt increase mana regeneration at all. Seems to be something they put in early in development and forgot about.

[Wintrow]

Sorry to say this, but you cant have more than 50 characters per account :cry:

True,

But you can have 3 accounts :grin:

[mesonm]

i admit it, i went on 2.2 ptr just to get the free epics, try out new classes, and do bg's. atleast i found two bugs =p.

If blizz wants people on the ptr who are motivated by the epics, I'm sure they will add them...

What probably happens though is that premades mean that EVERYONE has those epics, which is not realistic, and won't help them find the bugs as well as 'not' having the premades would.