Do you wish Theramore was a full city?

[Pharoahe]

I dont know about the positioning of Horde cities, so I cant talk about that.

But sometimes i really wish it was easier to travel Kalimdor. I think one of the main reasons why Kalimdor is alot less busy is that both Exo & Darna are right on the top of the continent. Personally it makes questing there a huge pain.

For example in the 50's you may be questing in Un Goro, Silithus, Winterspring, Felwood & Azshara. Now getting to Winter, Felwood & Azshara isnt too bad from Darna. But if you want to go Un Goro or Silithus, you either have to catch a flight from Darna which will take 10 - 15 minutes? Or you have to get a boat from Eastern Kingdoms & then another semi- long flight. The cities in Kalimdor just seem like theyre in bad positions...

I think either Exodar should have been somewhere close to the middle or Thermore Isle should be turned into a proper city (i.e you can port from Shat).
Exodar just seems like a waste of city. I go there regularly to hand in Runecloth & 90% of the time there isnt a SINGLE person there apart from me.

Thoughts?

[Azori]

I dont know about the positioning of Horde cities, so I cant talk about that.

But sometimes i really wish it was easier to travel Kalimdor. I think one of the main reasons why Kalimdor is alot less busy is that both Exo & Darna are right on the top of the continent. Personally it makes questing there a huge pain.

For example in the 50's you may be questing in Un Goro, Silithus, Winterspring, Felwood & Azshara. Now getting to Winter, Felwood & Azshara isnt too bad from Darna. But if you want to go Un Goro or Silithus, you either have to catch a flight from Darna which will take 10 - 15 minutes? Or you have to get a boat from Eastern Kingdoms & then another semi- long flight. The cities in Kalimdor just seem like theyre in bad positions...

I think either Exodar should have been somewhere close to the middle or Thermore Isle should be turned into a proper city (i.e you can port from Shat).
Exodar just seems like a waste of city. I go there regularly to hand in Runecloth & 90% of the time there isnt a SINGLE person there apart from me.

Thoughts?

I agree.

Exodar is too far removed from everything, and it used to take me forever to get to silithus/un'goro when I was levelling mining.

[Kalos]

Indeed. I wish they hasn't trashed Stromgarde in a rather lame offscreen manner just to fit in with the whole "Only one racial captial city" blurb. Much of WoW seems quite forced compared with how loose things flowed back in series earlier.

[Altaris]

Kalimdor sucks for Alliance. But then again, Eastern Kingdoms isn't really much better for Horde. They just get lucky enough to have a zepp from Org to Grom'gol.

[rgirty]

I wish it was, alliance does not have a coastal city...

well, there's darnassus..but really, come on.

It could have been pretty cool.. could be still?

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

As someone who plays both Horde and Alliance, somewhat equally (as of late, I used to be much stronger on playing Horde than Alliance), I'm going to have to say that Theramore is in many ways synonymous to Grom'Gul Outpost, for transportation purposes for each faction respectively. The Alliance has a strong presence in the Eastern Kingdoms, and only a very small/localized presence in Kalimdor. The Horde has a strong presence in Kalimdor and a very small/localized presence in the Eastern Kingdoms.

Looking at the cities, Orgrimmar & Thunder Bluff are the most strategically-situated cities on Kalimdor, spread apart in the central parts of the continent, along the Northeast/Southwest "zones" of the central Kalimdor. For the eastern Kingdoms, Ironforge and Stormwind are stratigically positioned in a similar fashion, along the North-central and South-central zones of the Eastern Kingdoms. The positions of these cities help their respective factions have a good amount of ease for getting around on the respective continents.

Undercity and Silvermoon City are positioned effectively right on top of each other, since until the mid 50's or so, it just isn't realistic for Horde to run out of Silvermoon/Eversong/Ghostlands to the rest of the Lordaeron portion of the Eastern Kingdoms without multitudes of deaths, and instead there is a teleporter... in the Ruins of Lordaeron, rendering it as being effectively in the same location as Undercity for most Horde travel purposes. In a similar light, Darnassus and Exodar are pretty much on top of each other, both of them are accessed from Auberdeen. Both sets of these cities are positioned somewhat out of the way, in the Northern parts of their respective continents, and are... inconvenient for most situations.

The Horde's method to using Horde travel to get to the Southern part of the Eastern Kingdoms is the Zepplin to Grom'Gul Outpost in Stranglethorne Vale. The Alliance method to get to the Southern part of Kalimdor is a boat to Theramore. Both of those are positioned in zones that are roughly equivalent in level, and makes the travel somewhat restrictive for characters below level 30 or so (realistically). Neither of them is "really" a city, but is in relatively close proximity to a neutral city (Booty Bay for Grom'Gul Outpost, or Gadgetzan [or Ratchet realistically] for Theramore).

There is a bit of a balance going on between the two factions in this way. Boosting Theramore to the status of a full city would give an advantage to the Alliance, which then something would need to happen for the Horde to "balance it out" - unless you seriously think that Grom'Gul needs to be a full city as well, I just don't see this as being a change that would ever happen, nor would I want it to, because right now, there's a balance (of sorts).

[ChaosSaber]

As an added note, when going from Darnassus to anywhere in south Kalimdor, it is actually faster to go via menethil harbor (Darn > fly to Auberdeen > Boat to Menethil > boat to Theramore > fly to wherever) 80% of the time. The remaining 20% comprises those times where you just miss one or both of the boats and are left waiting for an extended period of time.

Never fly from Auberdeen to Menethil unless you want the scenic tour of Kalimdor. It's gotta be the longest flight in the game.

Edit: to address the question posed, yes I think it would have been better if Exodar had crashed off Kalimdor's east coast; possibly connecting by boat to Steamweedle Port. It's a cool looking city that is going to waste. I keep my bank alts there because there's never any lag from crowds.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

As an added note, when going from Darnassus to anywhere in south Kalimdor, it is actually faster to go via menethil harbor (Darn > fly to Auberdeen > Boat to Menethil > boat to Theramore > fly to wherever) 80% of the time. The remaining 20% comprises those times where you just miss one or both of the boats and are left waiting for an extended period of time.

Never fly from Auberdeen to Menethil unless you want the scenic tour of Kalimdor. It's gotta be the longest flight in the game.

Edit: to address the question posed, yes I think it would have been better if Exodar had crashed off Kalimdor's east coast; possibly connecting by boat to Steamweedle Port.

Going from the Northern areas of the Eastern Kingdoms to the Southern areas tends to be fastest from a Zepplin trip between Undercity and Grom'Gul for the Horde too.

[dgrampa]

...Never fly from Auberdeen to Menethil unless you want the scenic tour of Kalimdor. It's gotta be the longest flight in the game...

You mean Theramore, right?

Going from the Northern areas of the Eastern Kingdoms to the Southern areas tends to be fastest from a Zepplin trip between Undercity and Grom'Gul for the Horde too.

...The Horde's method to using Horde travel to get to the Southern part of the Eastern Kingdoms is the Zepplin to Grom'Gul Outpost in Stranglethorne Vale. The Alliance method to get to the Southern part of Kalimdor is a boat to Theramore. Both of those are positioned in zones that are roughly equivalent in level, and makes the travel somewhat restrictive for characters below level 30 or so (realistically). Neither of them is "really" a city, but is in relatively close proximity to a neutral city (Booty Bay for Grom'Gul Outpost, or Gadgetzan [or Ratchet realistically] for Theramore)...

Except that Alliance needs to take 2 boat rides as opposed to the Horde's direct flight.

[Polaba]

Except that Alliance needs to take 2 boat rides as opposed to the Horde's direct flight.

And are the Zeppelins constantly camped by ??'s who think they're big, strong men? I think not.

[dgrampa]

And are the Zeppelins constantly camped by ??'s who think they're big, strong men? I think not.

My point was that it is slightly easier for horde to travel than it is for alliance. You seem to be trying to make the same point, but using the reasoning that the horde camp the boats more often than the alliance camp the zeppelins. Not sure why you quoted me, but hey, whatever. :thumbsup:

[Mesmer]

And are the Zeppelins constantly camped by ??'s who think they're big, strong men? I think not.

Only if your on a PVP realm.

There are a bunch of zones that are a pain to travel in and around. My fav would have to STV as an ally ... gahhhh I hate running up and down that road fending off red mobs.

[Pharoahe]

As someone who plays both Horde and Alliance, somewhat equally (as of late, I used to be much stronger on playing Horde than Alliance), I'm going to have to say that Theramore is in many ways synonymous to Grom'Gul Outpost, for transportation purposes for each faction respectively. The Alliance has a strong presence in the Eastern Kingdoms, and only a very small/localized presence in Kalimdor. The Horde has a strong presence in Kalimdor and a very small/localized presence in the Eastern Kingdoms.

Looking at the cities, Orgrimmar & Thunder Bluff are the most strategically-situated cities on Kalimdor, spread apart in the central parts of the continent, along the Northeast/Southwest "zones" of the central Kalimdor. For the eastern Kingdoms, Ironforge and Stormwind are stratigically positioned in a similar fashion, along the North-central and South-central zones of the Eastern Kingdoms. The positions of these cities help their respective factions have a good amount of ease for getting around on the respective continents.

Undercity and Silvermoon City are positioned effectively right on top of each other, since until the mid 50's or so, it just isn't realistic for Horde to run out of Silvermoon/Eversong/Ghostlands to the rest of the Lordaeron portion of the Eastern Kingdoms without multitudes of deaths, and instead there is a teleporter... in the Ruins of Lordaeron, rendering it as being effectively in the same location as Undercity for most Horde travel purposes. In a similar light, Darnassus and Exodar are pretty much on top of each other, both of them are accessed from Auberdeen. Both sets of these cities are positioned somewhat out of the way, in the Northern parts of their respective continents, and are... inconvenient for most situations.

The Horde's method to using Horde travel to get to the Southern part of the Eastern Kingdoms is the Zepplin to Grom'Gul Outpost in Stranglethorne Vale. The Alliance method to get to the Southern part of Kalimdor is a boat to Theramore. Both of those are positioned in zones that are roughly equivalent in level, and makes the travel somewhat restrictive for characters below level 30 or so (realistically). Neither of them is "really" a city, but is in relatively close proximity to a neutral city (Booty Bay for Grom'Gul Outpost, or Gadgetzan [or Ratchet realistically] for Theramore).

There is a bit of a balance going on between the two factions in this way. Boosting Theramore to the status of a full city would give an advantage to the Alliance, which then something would need to happen for the Horde to "balance it out" - unless you seriously think that Grom'Gul needs to be a full city as well, I just don't see this as being a change that would ever happen, nor would I want it to, because right now, there's a balance (of sorts).

all good points, but like i said im focussing on ease of play & would expect things to be made easier for Horde too.

As an added note, when going from Darnassus to anywhere in south Kalimdor, it is actually faster to go via menethil harbor (Darn > fly to Auberdeen > Boat to Menethil > boat to Theramore > fly to wherever) 80% of the time. The remaining 20% comprises those times where you just miss one or both of the boats and are left waiting for an extended period of time.

Never fly from Auberdeen to Menethil unless you want the scenic tour of Kalimdor. It's gotta be the longest flight in the game.

Edit: to address the question posed, yes I think it would have been better if Exodar had crashed off Kalimdor's east coast; possibly connecting by boat to Steamweedle Port. It's a cool looking city that is going to waste. I keep my bank alts there because there's never any lag from crowds.

yeah but the problem with this route is that you cannot go AFK. You have to sit there making all these seperate journeys. do i really want to spend 15 minutes travelling?
For people who mainly PvE & quest, if you have one hour to play are you going to
a) take a 5 minute flight to winterspring
or
b) spend 15 minutes trying to get to Silithus?
it just doesnt make sense for people who want to knock of a couple quests in the evening...

[Baboon]

I've played both Alliance and Horde a lot, and I have to say Kalimdor is horrible for Alliance. The Zeppelin from Grom'gol to UC really makes Eastern Kingdoms a lot better for Horde. And why isn't there a boat between Darkshore and Theramore?

[Tollin]

Never fly from Auberdeen to Menethil unless you want the scenic tour of Kalimdor. It's gotta be the longest flight in the game.



Try a flight from Undercity to Swamp of Sorrows, just as bad as Theramore to Darnassus.

It's all laid out very well for both sides actually. It just sucks sometimes to waste a half hour of your playtime to travel anywhere I know I played back in 2005 when you had to sit there for every flight, and re-click on the next flight master to go to the next connection. Imagine doing that when you are in Winterspring and you have to travel from Stormwind!

The biggest difference is that the Horde have the barrens which is a 10-20+ questing zone, throw in Stonetalon Mountains with it and you have one zone pretty much for 20 levels. That makes it seem easier but in reality it blows. Unlike the alliance side where you progress nicely from one uber cool zone to another, Elwynn forrest, Westfall, Duskwood etc.... The horde go from starting zone to the Barrens. After ten levels all that orange starts to get very annoying.

I am ready for some new zones to open up, the Island of Gilneas, Mt Hyjal etc...

[Baboon]

Try a flight from Undercity to Swamp of Sorrows, just as bad as Theramore to Darnassus.


That's why your startpoint should be Orgrimmar, so you take the zep to Grom and fly to the swamp. The zep layout is what makes it better for Horde compared to Alliance. From Orgrimmar, you are reasonably close to anything in Kalimdor, and you have two flight directions toward Eastern Kingdoms.

But anyway, I'd get ported to Shatt at level 1 and use the portals next time I level. Scryers and Aldor have no problems with level 1's when you are neutral with them.

[Pharoahe]

Try a flight from Undercity to Swamp of Sorrows, just as bad as Theramore to Darnassus.

It's all laid out very well for both sides actually. It just sucks sometimes to waste a half hour of your playtime to travel anywhere I know I played back in 2005 when you had to sit there for every flight, and re-click on the next flight master to go to the next connection. Imagine doing that when you are in Winterspring and you have to travel from Stormwind!

The biggest difference is that the Horde have the barrens which is a 10-20+ questing zone, throw in Stonetalon Mountains with it and you have one zone pretty much for 20 levels. That makes it seem easier but in reality it blows. Unlike the alliance side where you progress nicely from one uber cool zone to another, Elwynn forrest, Westfall, Duskwood etc.... The horde go from starting zone to the Barrens. After ten levels all that orange starts to get very annoying.

I am ready for some new zones to open up, the Island of Gilneas, Mt Hyjal etc...

Yeah but swamp of sorrows isnt a zone you spend alot of time in, so you can just set a hearth there.
but in the 50s youre questing in 2 continents & about 8-10 zones, so Shat is the easiest place to set the hearth to. Its just a nightmare travelling from Darna.
Exodar is a ghost town, and basically a waste of space. It should be in Southern Kalimdor or Theramore should be a city.

This isnt a Horde v Alliance debate. Im sure you hordies have legit problems too, im just venting on this one.

[Scorch_Hellfire]

no i dont think theramore needs to be a full city... although it would make sense... but then again its pretty much the same way with the horde... silvermoon and undercity are at the top of the eastern kingdoms... the only difference is that the horde have zepplins going straight from theyre main city to undercity which then has a teleport to silvermoon so its pretty easy where as the alliance has to fly to menethil harbor then take the ship to auberdine then take the ship or fly to darn/exodar... and i guess the ship to theramore is supposed to be the alliance equivalent to the grom'gol zepplin... but whatever...

[selone_orc]

The one thing they should do is make the boats as well guarded as zeppelins are now. They boosted zeppelin security, why not boat :p

[Laringar]

ChaosSaber, I do like you... my auction/bank alt hangs out in Exodar, because not only does it have no crowds, but it looks cool, and the mailbox is literally right outside the AH. I don't have to cross a bridge and risk falling in, I don't have to weave through the streets, or trek half a mile to a giant tree. Just walk up a short hall. So yeah, I think that's the best part about the Exodar to me. _Really_ wish it was in a better place, though.

[robertnc]

I really like the idea of a boat from Auberdine -> Theramore. In 2.3, the existing boats have been sped up, and a new boat path would be a great idea without breaking lore or making Hordies upset about this being unfair. They should just take the Auberdine -> Rut'theran boat out, give everyone that FP free (just like Dark Portal -> Honor Hold in HP), and use that dock for Auberdine -> Theramore.

Also, borrowing the Horde's zeppelins is fun!!

[Laringar]

You can't take out the aub-->rut boat, because then it wouldn't be possible for anyone but NE to get to Darnassus. Even with the free flight point, horde still couldn't get out there, and even being Ally myself, I have to call foul on an unattackable city.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

You can't take out the aub-->rut boat, because then it wouldn't be possible for anyone but NE to get to Darnassus. Even with the free flight point, horde still couldn't get out there, and even being Ally myself, I have to call foul on an unattackable city.

Not true, Darnassus had been attacked multiple times by Horde on my server way back when. Just takes some druids, warlocks, shamans, and patience. It is hardly "unattackable".

[ChaosSaber]

Not true, Darnassus had been attacked multiple times by Horde on my server way back when. Just takes some druids, warlocks, shamans, and patience. It is hardly "unattackable".
Are you actually suggesting that the Horde swim across the deep water between Auberdine and Darnassus?
I think that still counts as a foul because it's considerably harder than attacking any Horde city, where you can just run straight in.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

Are you actually suggesting that the Horde swim across the deep water between Auberdine and Darnassus?

It's been done, some applications of Aquatic Form, speed potions, and waterwalking did wonders to get the necessary elements over to Darnassus to then perform the summoning to bring the rest of the group over.

I think that still counts as a foul because it's considerably harder than attacking any Horde city, where you can just run straight in.

Thunder Bluff springs to mind as being a bit complicated for that. Not going to argue that Darnassus isn't more difficult to get to, but it isn't impossible. There is a big difference.

[Laringar]

With the boat there, Horde can use that to raid Darn. You shouldn't have to use pots and various things to speed past the fatigue zone, then summon to get your party there... people get banned for using the same methods to get to the developer island off Tanaris.

Then again, there's always the "cheap" method... have the NPC at the end of BFD port you into the middle of Darnassus.


I'm just saying that they should leave the boat to Rut in, because it would be unfair to horde to make it that incredibly hard to raid Darn.