How do the pvp pro's control their characters??

[JasinC]

I play a warrior, and never use the mouse to move. I use a,s,d,q,w,e and the num pad for all my abilities. This works terrific until someone runs through me and I have to turn around. Hitting a or d to turn 180 degrees to get to them is horrendous and costs me the fight sometimes.

So say I use the mouse to keep focused on the target... I can spin as fast as I want and nobody can get away from me. But then how do I use my abilities?

Do I keep my left hand on the number keys above the letter keys? Use 1, 2, 3, F1, F2, F3, etc for my key abilities? What happens when I wanna strafe? Or tab target, or use some situational ability that is far away on my keyboard?

I was thinking of sticking with the a,s,d + num pad until I need to chase someone, then switch to mouse. Is this how most do it?

How do the pros do it? With hamstring and intercept I don't have a problem, but now that our arena rating is getting a little higher, I've been running into this problem more and more and I'm starting to feel like a noob. I'm willing to learn a different method of char control, but I want to make sure it's optimal.

What's the best way to control your char in pvp? (Arms warrior)

Thanks

[xDarkDrifterx]

Dunno about pro, but here's how I control my toon.

I'm a hunter but I usually play with my left hand on the keyboard to hit various keys and use the right hand on the mouse - which I then use to hit the number pad keys from time to time. I didn't put anything that I hit alot on the numberpad keys those are aspects, tracking, etc, things I use but just not often. My main attacks are on the keyboard numbers. If I hold down the right mouse button then hit Q or E to strafe I can run circles, turn quickly, and since my left hand is on the keyboard I can do hunter jump shots with my thumb hitting the space bar, etc. I pretty much play this way on all my alts (mage, warrior, rogue, preist). I never got into the left hand on keyboard keys and right hand on numpad keys control, maybe b/c being a hunter I found it easier with a mouse in my right hand - then it jsut transfered to how I control my others.

[mender of bad soles]

I wouldnt call myself a pro, but my setup is tested in arenas and in <r50 gvg(Guild v Guild) in guild wars.

I use my mouse for camera angles, limited movement, and use the extra mouse keys for several target macros:target last hostile(not focus), make target focus, target focus/make focus target. This is important because it allows my left hand to cast with one motion, as rather than hitting two keys i do one with each hand. This reduces reaction time noticeably, even though it may be annoying to learn at first.

My left hand is centered in the middle of my keyboard with movement keys as fght, using the f and h keys as strafes rather than turns to free up space and force me to be efficent with movement. I dont beleive in using the turn functions in this game, they are simply too slow to ever be useful. jump remains at the spacebar, ive tried moving it around but you really dont need a skill on large keys.

My skills are bound around fght, with keys bound so their uses do not impede character movement. For example, binding an instant so that only the middle finger(rests on t key, used for many keys above the qwertyuiop line) can reach it is probably not a good idea if you use it most often running forwards. I also avoid putting chained skilled at oposite ends of the keyboard, minimum time between one skill and the next is very important.

as a general rule, quick movement imparing abilities i.e frost nova, CoC, r1 frostbolt etc should be in a position where the pinky and thumb can reach them, so you can hit them without stopping. single high damage or long cast skills should be at medium length from the movement keys, as you can useally deal with moving your fingers back after such a skill. Combo skills, or ones used in quick succesion should be placed as close to the movement keys as possible along with interupts and reaction skills. "Get out of jail free" abilities such as ice block or bubble can be medium distance from the movement keys as well, as they give you time afterwards to move back.

Buffs and rarely used/very situational spells can be spread out on the edges of the keyboard as you wont reach for them all that often.

With the full range of keys on the keyboard +good hand movement, there is no reason not to have multiple ranks of your favorite skills around, efficency never hurts.

A very helpful trick is to learn how to use the movement keys with other fingers, it gives you a greater range of keys to hit quickly. For example, lets say ice lance is bound to L. I want to hit it while running forward+left, so instead of moving my thumb or reangling my hand, both of which are very unnatural movements, i move all my fingers one key to the right, freeing my index finger to hit the key. While making use of this type of movement may not seem to do much, it relieves stress on the wrist and fingers while also effectively increasing your hand's range while moving another ~15 keys.

I will stop my control rant here, i have more things in use but they are not relevant to pvp on a warrior. If you are interested in slightly more class or pve spesific info pm me, i enjoy hotkey theorycraft a great deal :grin:

Ronan

[Aerath]

Simple answer: Use the mouse to turn and move.
Use quick keys and extra mouse buttons for actions.

[caldepen]

I use the mouse to turn but usually advance with "w" and mix it in with the double mouseclick advance when I have to spam a couple of hotkeys but still want to move forward, if that makes sense. Get to know and love your keybindings.

When I am just rambling through the land looking for fun and want to pick my nose with my right hand, or take a drink of water than I use a-w-d.

[bearbehind]

My keyboards a little wierd as i have no seperate cursors (they are combined into the main section along with my insert/home/page up - down keys etc.

But basically i run around with the cursors and have my most frequently used spells pre set on a /castsequence macro.

I have about 5 such macros for various encounters so most fights resort to basic button thumping.

Learn to write a few basic macros and you're laughing.

[Twoflower]

Simple answer: Use the mouse to turn and move.
Use quick keys and extra mouse buttons for actions.

QFT.

between aswd, q,e,f,r,tab, left shift and left control, 1,2,3,4,5, f1, f2, f3, f4 and f5 you should have enugh room for your abilities :)

[NamelessoneX]

I use the mouse exclusively for movement. This is because i "grew up" on TFC and not quake so i never got the whole W-A-S-D thing. However it gives me a few advantages over someone who does use wasd or just arrow keys.

1) Less "wrong button" problems. I can be clumsy
2) Easyer to kite, since i only need mouse and space bar to jump, spin/dot-cast/then run or contune in motion if a dot.
3) Easyer to pan around the sides and rear...very important.

Over all the best way to pvp is the way you are most comfortable with. I would never like WASD, so i dont do it. However as a melee class, rear positioning is important so only use a set up that can maximize this

[Aerath]

Over all the best way to pvp is the way you are most comfortable with. I would never like WASD, so i dont do it. However as a melee class, rear positioning is important so only use a set up that can maximize this

Frankly... No.

Whilst I would definitely agree to using the hot keys you're most used to and comfortable with (as long as they're within reach!)... Never ever use WASD to turn or move.

Keyboard turners are free honour kills. They will never catch a player that moves by using the mouse.

[Kugan]

Over all the best way to pvp is the way you are most comfortable with. I would never like WASD, so i dont do it. However as a melee class, rear positioning is important so only use a set up that can maximize this

I agree with Aerath. It’s one of the most uncomfortable things someone can do in WoW to change from keyboard turning to mouse. Their fingers are going to hurt, they are going to feel completely useless, and they are going to press the wrong button at the wrong time.

It’s also one of the best things they can possible do to improve their character.

[bearbehind]

I remember changing from keys to mouse when playing FPS shooters like Quake.

It was weird for ages, but the benefits are soooo much better.

Also: I use the mouse to turn and look, and have my left & right cursors to strafe. - Great for kiting

[Duke Brand]

Presonally I disagree with you all..... I use my keyboard to turn & move and never have issues. I've kited killed many horde. Do what you feel comfortable with imo. Nice thing is that with dots & MF your target doesn't have to be directly infront of you. Also once i get MF on my target it automatically turns my character with them. So no matter how many times they run through me or around me I turn with them.

Turning & looking is very easy this way aswell....I hold down the W key and use my mouse to change the camera angle.....it's easy.

[Kugan]

Presonally I disagree with you all..... I use my keyboard to turn & move and never have issues. I've kited killed many horde. Do what you feel comfortable with imo. Nice thing is that with dots & MF your target doesn't have to be directly infront of you. Also once i get MF on my target it automatically turns my character with them. So no matter how many times they run through me or around me I turn with them.

He plays a Warrior. I know Warlocks/Priests/etc. can just cast stuff no matter where people are, but it's pretty important for a Warrior to keep his target in front of him.

It's also important for a Warrior to react in a moment's notice to what someone else is doing. Moving your mouse is not an option.

Edit: For more information about this, see
http://www.darklegacycomics.com/87.html

[xDarkDrifterx]

Edit: For more information about this, see
http://www.darklegacycomics.com/87.html

:laugh: lol great stuff

[Amiral]

Frankly... No.

Whilst I would definitely agree to using the hot keys you're most used to and comfortable with (as long as they're within reach!)... Never ever use WASD to turn or move.

Keyboard turners are free honour kills. They will never catch a player that moves by using the mouse.

He didn't point to using WASD as a way for melee, only that melee should do all they can to stay behind their target, whatever means... my interpretion.

Anyway, being no big pvp-pro myself, I keep (q)W(e)ASD for pure lazyness, as I can't always be bothered with using the mouse to turn (Riding in cities for example), though I always use it in battle. As a warrior, you'll need about 15-20 keybinds, and those are quite easily gotten by using only 1-5 and modifiers, and a few other keys.
A tip to keybinding is to use keys like C and bindning character info to a modifier+C instead, so those functions which are not time-crucial don't take keybinds you could put to better use.
And as for using your mouse, pressing both left and right buttons will result in your character running, which is a way of keeping your left hand almost completely free for using all the buttons you want.
Another tip is to bind spells of the same function to buttons close to each other, like having Hamstring on 4 and Piercing Howl on R, and so on.

[bearbehind]

I generally bind such keys on a single macro.

I.e my main attack button casts arcane shot, followed by serpent sting and finishes with a concussive shot. - given a reset value of 3, i can stop pushing the button if i don't need to stun them at the end if they don't start advancing. If they do i have that same key+ctrl to shoot a concussive instead so i can time it all perfectly.

I just find cutting down keys easier.

I have hunters mark and pet attack on one so ican commence an attack with oine button, and aimed shot followed up with a trap on another. (so i can launch the opener shot followed by my usual salvo then that key changes function to a trap if the guy runs at me.


Ahhh i love macros....

:grin:

[JasinC]

Yeah I've been playing around with different methods. I've been liking one way in particular. That's just using 1-5, f1-f5, and the mouse to move.

However, I'm only really comfortable doing that when i have to chase someone :) Holding in a or q and the right mouse button to strafe, and then having to press 3 for mortal strike is gonna take some getting used to.

My friend lent me his nostromo pad, but I really don't wanna be reliant on something like that. (If that makes sense)

I guess the biggest problem is where to put my oh sh*t buttons. (PVP trinket, aoe fear, spell reflect macro, etc)

That and having hunters and sprinted rogues running through or around me, and I've already made a lot of improvement with the above method.

[Kugan]

At the end of the day, anything that you use in PvP should be bound (if you are playing a melee class. A caster class might get away with clicking, but I think binding would still be better). If you are clicking on even one ability you are gimping yourself too much.

I do click on my potions, but I’m trying to learn to play without them (since I can’t use them in arena). Everything else is keybound.

Although it does cause some problems. Had this discussion with my arena partner the other day about whether I should take ghostly strike or riposte. He came with the suggestion of taking both. To which I replied: “Don’t be silly. I can’t possibly fit both into my keybindings.”

[Aerath]

At the end of the day, anything that you use in PvP should be bound (if you are playing a melee class. A caster class might get away with clicking, but I think binding would still be better). If you are clicking on even one ability you are gimping yourself too much.

I do click on my potions, but I’m trying to learn to play without them (since I can’t use them in arena). Everything else is keybound.

Although it does cause some problems. Had this discussion with my arena partner the other day about whether I should take ghostly strike or riposte. He came with the suggestion of taking both. To which I replied: “Don’t be silly. I can’t possibly fit both into my keybindings.”

Macro them. Riposte only triggers on a Parry, so the rest of the time you can safely spam Ghostly Strike.

[Kugan]

Macro them. Riposte only triggers on a Parry, so the rest of the time you can safely spam Ghostly Strike.

Castrandom is unreliable in PvP. I want to use what I want when I want.. not use something random between two spells.

If I could macro them that Riposte would be used when it could, and ghostly the rest of the time, I would, but as far as I know that's not possible.

[bearbehind]

If I could macro them that Riposte would be used when it could, and ghostly the rest of the time, I would, but as far as I know that's not possible.

I think you can - kind of

You can castsequence it as it simply

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=1, ghostly strike, riposte

You cast ghosty then on an immediate second press cast riposte if ready, If not wait 1 second for the GCD to finish then press again to launch ghosty again (you'll know its ready cos the icon will change :).

PS - im not a caster so i don't know about ghostly strike so if it doesn't trigger the GCD ignore this.

The other way is simply to ad a modifier command and cast it that way.

[Kugan]

I think you can - kind of

You can castsequence it as it simply

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=1, ghostly strike, riposte

You cast ghosty then on an immediate second press cast riposte if ready, If not wait 1 second for the GCD to finish then press again to launch ghosty again (you'll know its ready cos the icon will change :).

PS - im not a caster so i don't know about ghostly strike so if it doesn't trigger the GCD ignore this.

The other way is simply to ad a modifier command and cast it that way.

Hmmm. Not a bad idea. Ghostly Strike is on a 20 second cooldown, so maybe something in the line of
/castsequance reset=20, ghostly strike, riposte
which will allow me to cast ghostly strike each time it's available, and riposte the rest of the time.

Not sure if it will work, but if it does, you will be my hero, Bear.

If it doesn't... you owe me 100g for my respec :grin:.

I'm out of modifiers for my keys :cry:

Edit: I'll test it on my Paladin first with Holy Shock and Hammer of Wrath.

[bearbehind]

Hmmm. Not a bad idea. Ghostly Strike is on a 20 second cooldown, so maybe something in the line of
/castsequance reset=20, ghostly strike, riposte
which will allow me to cast ghostly strike each time it's available, and riposte the rest of the time.



reset = 20 will wait 20 from last button push. So if you hit the button to early or by acc then you'll have to wait the whole 20 secs again.

try with less of a reset time.

[NamelessoneX]

Frankly... No.

Whilst I would definitely agree to using the hot keys you're most used to and comfortable with (as long as they're within reach!)... Never ever use WASD to turn or move.

Keyboard turners are free honour kills. They will never catch a player that moves by using the mouse.


This is not true for all classes. Learning how to play with a mouse can be very hard for some people. This is more so true with people who use laptops. Regardless this was not the point i was trying to make, as i myself use a mouse and not arrow keys. However i do have experience useing the arrow keys, as thats how i learned. In my opinion, all caster classes and non positioning intense classes can have someone use the arrow keys and do ok. Rogues, feral druids in cat, and warriors who are aiming to do well (or any melee user who wants to maximize damage) will want to use the mouse. But the point is, although i think everyone who is really interested in pvp or even pve should learn to use the mouse, if you don't want to or cant, that doesn't mean you will do awfully. I've watched some videos where i've seen plenty of back peddling and slow turns but they still did well.

[Kugan]

This is not true for all classes. Learning how to play with a mouse can be very hard for some people. This is more so true with people who use laptops. Regardless this was not the point i was trying to make, as i myself use a mouse and not arrow keys. However i do have experience useing the arrow keys, as thats how i learned. In my opinion, all caster classes and non positioning intense classes can have someone use the arrow keys and do ok. Rogues, feral druids in cat, and warriors who are aiming to do well (or any melee user who wants to maximize damage) will want to use the mouse. But the point is, although i think everyone who is really interested in pvp or even pve should learn to use the mouse, if you don't want to or cant, that doesn't mean you will do awfully. I've watched some videos where i've seen plenty of back peddling and slow turns but they still did well.

Not true. Everybody can learn to use the mouse to move (if they have a mouse instead of a touch pad).

But if you are saying "don't do it if it is too difficult", no one will. It's extremely difficult to get used to, but it is easier than the keys once you get the hang of it (I can't move with the keys anymore. Can't get into buildings...)

[JasinC]

So ok, I've been practicing using mouse turn, and Q and E to strafe.

When I strafe around to the left with Q, I can hit 2-5 (main abilities) no problem, but when I use E to strafe, I can't hit 4 or 5 because my finger is in the way.

Maybe I'm a bit dense here, but if someone can give like a real life sample key layout I'd appreciate it. I usually have to strafe around people and switch directions a lot, while using mortal strike, whirlwind, hamstring, tab-targetting, intercept, you get the idea.

Basically what i'm asking is: if you guys are using q or e to strafe, what keys are you using to hit abilities?

If you're not using q and e, what are you using?

[Kugan]

If you're not using q and e, what are you using?

I used A and D before I got my Nostromo.

Since you won't be using them to turn anymore, you might as well use them to strafe.

[Amiral]

I used A and D before I got my Nostromo.

Since you won't be using them to turn anymore, you might as well use them to strafe.

yeah, that's what I'm too lazy to do...

Anyone know of an addon switching keybinds in/out of combat?

[NamelessoneX]

Not true. Everybody can learn to use the mouse to move (if they have a mouse instead of a touch pad).

But if you are saying "don't do it if it is too difficult", no one will. It's extremely difficult to get used to, but it is easier than the keys once you get the hang of it (I can't move with the keys anymore. Can't get into buildings...)


No im not saying that. Actually like what i said in the quote, its possible to ignore useing a mouse and still do well, but not as well as someone who does.

In my opinion, all caster classes and non positioning intense classes can have someone use the arrow keys and do ok. Rogues, feral druids in cat, and warriors who are aiming to do well (or any melee user who wants to maximize damage) will want to use the mouse. But the point is, although i think everyone who is really interested in pvp or even pve should learn to use the mouse

Becides, anyone who is content with doing "ok" wont really care much about the positioning anyway let alone mouse over keyboard or clicker over hotkeys.

[Duke Brand]

ya know i think it's pretty darn funny that you define a good play & and excellent player by how they control their toon. I could almost gaurntee there are people out there that can out perform you with using their keyboard to move and mouse for attacks than the other way around.

It's common knowledge your way is not always the best way. It may be best for you, but not everyone else. The best way is how you feel comfortable playing. I have personally played the game both ways and have seen a significant decrease in my dps when using my mouse for movement. I can position myself perfectly on any fight i have been involved in, I have no issues kiting in PvP what so ever, and even better yet on my rouge i have no issues moving in behind a target to attack. It's all how you feel, play how you feel comfortable. IMO, there is no advantage to either way of controling your toon...it's all how you feel comfortable.

Oh and on a side note, my raid lead during Kael'thas fights use to call out ever person who used the keyboard to turn when they would get Thaladred the Darkener running after him......I was the only one he couldn't tell was using a keyboard to turn. Reaction time is key....if you got that it doesn't matter.

[Aerath]

ya know i think it's pretty darn funny that you define a good play & and excellent player by how they control their toon. I could almost gaurntee there are people out there that can out perform you with using their keyboard to move and mouse for attacks than the other way around.

It's common knowledge your way is not always the best way. It may be best for you, but not everyone else. The best way is how you feel comfortable playing. I have personally played the game both ways and have seen a significant decrease in my dps when using my mouse for movement. I can position myself perfectly on any fight i have been involved in, I have no issues kiting in PvP what so ever, and even better yet on my rouge i have no issues moving in behind a target to attack. It's all how you feel, play how you feel comfortable. IMO, there is no advantage to either way of controling your toon...it's all how you feel comfortable.

Oh and on a side note, my raid lead during Kael'thas fights use to call out ever person who used the keyboard to turn when they would get Thaladred the Darkener running after him......I was the only one he couldn't tell was using a keyboard to turn. Reaction time is key....if you got that it doesn't matter.

Believe what you want but 'reaction time' has bugger all to do with it.
Mouse turning 160 degrees is next to instant, button turning 160 degrees is not. It has nothing to do with players, reaction speed or anything - it's simply how this is programmed.

End of discussion.

[Duke Brand]

Believe what you want but 'reaction time' has bugger all to do with it.
Mouse turning 160 degrees is next to instant, button turning 160 degrees is not. It has nothing to do with players, reaction speed or anything - it's simply how this is programmed.

End of discussion.

Not true, and a large majority of this may be due to latency, but I typicially sit around 90ms latency plus if I have a quicker reaction time of .5 seconds faster than you do there is a good chance I could probably turn just about as fast as you do.

It is your OPINION that mouse control is better than keyboard control. I stress opinion because that is what it is. You have stated no facts behind it, nor can suppport it with facts so it is strictly an OPINION.

Now we can end this discussion

[NamelessoneX]

ya know i think it's pretty darn funny that you define a good play & and excellent player by how they control their toon.

Im glad you agree ^_-

If you cant control your character how exactly do you plan to control the pvp encounter? If you are not the one in control, regardless of who had the innitive, then you are not playing to your potental. Again, this is *not* to say someone or some classes cant go with out useing the mouse. This is very true, espically raiders. But a sub or assn rogue, feral druid looking to pounce etc, will be slow to turn and wont get proper positioning. So if you cannont do this you are not playing to your potental. Its not meant to put anyone down, its just how it is.

[mender of bad soles]

Mouse turning 160 degrees is next to instant, button turning 160 degrees is not. It has nothing to do with players, reaction speed or anything - it's simply how this is programmed.

Looks like a fact to me...... The programmed turn speed is limited. Nothing you do can change that. You claim that your reaction time can make up for this, but we are not argueing if you can make up for it, but instead which system is faster with human input removed from the equation.

if you really beleive you can turn faster with keys than with a mouse try it ingame with a 180 turn w/keys then with mouse........... the results are pretty clear to me at least.

More to the topic of this thread, how do you strafe with pure mouse movement? I seem to be midway between the keyboard movement and mouse movement strategies......

Ronan

EDIT: Nameless makes a point that i think some people fail to realize. How you control your player is some signifigant percent of what would be called "player skill." The more efficent your controls are, the more efficent you can be as a player. One of the changes that allowed me to be fairly sucessfull at 3v1s was my targeting system, allowing me to juggle three players with a minimum of effort and confusion. effective controls allow you to do exactly what you want, allowing your inate skills to be fully manifested in the game. While you can be effective as a talented player with no advanced controls, without a doubt the addition of a good system would bring you farther and increase your capacity to play well.

[Aerath]

Not true, and a large majority of this may be due to latency, but I typicially sit around 90ms latency plus if I have a quicker reaction time of .5 seconds faster than you do there is a good chance I could probably turn just about as fast as you do.

It is your OPINION that mouse control is better than keyboard control. I stress opinion because that is what it is. You have stated no facts behind it, nor can suppport it with facts so it is strictly an OPINION.

Now we can end this discussion

Get this through your brain. There is no latency involved. There is no reaction time involved.

If -you- on -your- computer turn with a mouse vs -you- on -your- computer turning with keyboard, the only difference in the equation is the speed difference in turning between the two options.

As stated above, it takes longer to turn by keeping a button pressed than a twirl with the mouse. Again, this has nothing to do with how fast your hand-eye-speed-reaction-speed-coordination-whatever is.

It solely has to do with mouse vs keyboard. Anything you mention is sidetracking the discussion and leading people to a faulty conclusion.

Logic, dear Watson.

--

As to strafing - move and press the strafe key. Those generally are close to your hotkeys anyway.

//edit:

To add to that. If you're on a caster, you can forget about killing anyone if they reach you when you're using keyboard turning. You can not cast at anyone behind you, and you can't move through them without aborting casts.

[dagee]

So ok, I've been practicing using mouse turn, and Q and E to strafe...


If you're not using q and e, what are you using?

If I understand correctly you want an example of a key binding that works well. First off, let me tell you that this is just my example and it works for me. Like you, I used the keys for movement, though I have always use the mouse for turning. Just recently I remapped my keys so that I had quick access to 12 abilities (not 15 sorry), while still keeping strafe and forward and backward. I am a rogue so I won't list my abilities but kind of give you a generalization for my key set up. First off everything for me is centered around edsf not wsad (call it old school). My current set up: keys 12345 keys that are used all the time in every situation. I have been using them since day one no reason to change them now. 6 a skill that has a bit longer timer perhaps a trinket or something else that gets used but occasionally. Next qwr - another set of skills that are used a lot almost every fight. Finally zxcvb- these are my life saving skills, pvp trinket, cc breaker, vanish... what have you.

Just to let you know I did do the whole give up keyboard for movement thing on my warrior and with some practice it worked very well. The reason I went back to having some keybindings is because I do have a caster and I find that the ability to strafe effectively is very important as a caster and for me I needed a keyboard for this. If my only characters had been melee then I might have given the keyboard up completely (for movement).

[bearbehind]

How the hell can you effectively kite with a keyboard controlled toon?

The tried and tested run-jump-twirl-shoot-twirl-land-run is the only true way - bar the run-straferun-shoot method.

Keyboard controlers would have to run-jump-land-stop-turn-turn-turn-shoot-turn-turn-turn-die.

Are there any keyboard hunters here? how do you do it?

[NamelessoneX]

How the hell can you effectively kite with a keyboard controlled toon?

The tried and tested run-jump-twirl-shoot-twirl-land-run is the only true way - bar the run-straferun-shoot method.

Keyboard controlers would have to run-jump-land-stop-turn-turn-turn-shoot-turn-turn-turn-die.

Are there any keyboard hunters here? how do you do it?


I used to do it , jump and turn with the keyboard. The problem was...well...it was pretty slow. To slow to really use it effectively. That and the bigger problem wasent useing it on someone you knew who was behind you, but trying to use it as a way to tab select someone because you weren't getting the full rotation in it, just a short one.

[Clavina]

If -you- on -your- computer turn with a mouse vs -you- on -your- computer turning with keyboard, the only difference in the equation is the speed difference in turning between the two options.

As stated above, it takes longer to turn by keeping a button pressed than a twirl with the mouse. Again, this has nothing to do with how fast your hand-eye-speed-reaction-speed-coordination-whatever is.

It solely has to do with mouse vs keyboard. Anything you mention is sidetracking the discussion and leading people to a faulty conclusion.


QFT, as mentioned numerous times mouse turning is far superior to keyboard turning for ALL classes. However most ranged classes can get away with the keyboard turning due to the way the class works. I know that if I fight a keyboard turner then it's pretty much a free kill. (I also have painful memories of a keyboard turning tank at the Anub'Rekhan fight in Naxx )

Some basics of mouse moving:

Left Button will let you look somewhere without changing your direction.
Right Button will turn your char the way the camera faces
Pressing both mouse buttons will make you move the way the camera faces with no need to press anything on the keyboard. (can be useful to get behind ur foes and quickly turn around to hit them)

[Elsu]

I use a "marble mouse" for most movement, and the keyboard for strafe and everything else.

I started using this method several years ago in first-person shooters and although it seemed a bit awkward for a couple of weeks, my game play improved dramatically as I became comfortable with the track-ball mouse.

The "marble mouse" I use has a standard 3 button configuration with the Mouse Wheel centered between the Left and Right buttons acting as the third or Middle button, and the "marble" or track-ball is controlled by my thumb.

When playing World of Warcraft I have almost every key bound to an action or use, and many keys are given more than one action by using the Alt, Ctrl, or Shift keys as modifiers.

[ardanwen]

simple mouse (2 button + scrolling wheel), in combination with a nostromo gamepad (n52). One of the keys of the nostromo I'll program as a modifier, the rest is used for walking or are commands.

4 keys are used for walking (toggle forward, backward, strafe left, strafe right), 1 key for toggling running / walking, 9 keys (and 9 ctrl + keys) are used for calling macro's or just plain attacks. The gamepad is used for shifting between forms / aspects or stances, and modifier+ gamepad is used for targetting / next / previous / nearest. The scrollwheel on the nostromo is used to control pets (stay / follow / attack), and with the modifier can change passive / agressive / defensive.

No need to click anything with the mouse during pvp, so the mouse is used for zooming / looking / turning / targetting / looting, and circle-strafing (using a strafe key from the nostromo and hold-rightclick mouse for moving).


Works like a charm. My UI is pretty minimum (one of the sidebars for potions etc), no main bar, which makes for nice playing.

http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=157024

[ulas]

i used to be against mouse play but ever since i started to heal in instances i find it easier to click on heals. for pvp grinding i go for WASD and when i jump around in pvp i just throw my right hand on the arrows and use my left hand or attacks

[Gameliel]

Probably a dumb question but whatever.. so when ya'll say "mouse to move," you mean for turning, looking etc. Not moving in general. As in, you don't use the mouse to move forward or backward, correct?

'cos I use the mouse to turn, look and etc but I do use the W and S keys to run forwards and backwards.

[Aerath]

Probably a dumb question but whatever.. so when ya'll say "mouse to move," you mean for turning, looking etc. Not moving in general. As in, you don't use the mouse to move forward or backward, correct?

'cos I use the mouse to turn, look and etc but I do use the W and S keys to run forwards and backwards.

Press both mouse buttons. Et voila - you just moved ! :wink:

[nosoup4crr]

I've only read the first 2 pages, so if this is being repeated, I apologize.

Often times, people will respond with answers such as "do whatever you like" or "do whatever you're comfortable with." This is all fine if someone is only playing to enjoy the game. But, if someone is trying to improve his skills, this is bad advice--and I sincerely hope that the OP doesn't use it.

This game is not that difficult. Adapting to use the mouse as opposed to turning with A/D will take all of 3 or 4 hours practice. Using the mouse has benefits. And to say that one should ignore those benefits because it would make him uncomfortable is silly. If this game were so difficult that changing a play style such as this would necessarily hinder one's ability to effectively make other actions, my advice might be different. But this simple change should in no way compromise your ability to effectively do other things--not in this game. This is analogous to saying that if someone isn't comfortable playing 2's and 3's in poker, he shoudln't. It hamstrings possibilities and necessarily limits potential.

If you want to become good, mouse turning is a MUST. With a backstab rogue, I could effectively make a melee opponent, turning with A/D, miss about 20%-25% of his attacks. With a combat rogue/warrior, I could make him miss around 35%. That's a big, big difference.

If you want to get better, you have to practice different techniques.

[SSH83]

WHAT ARE YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT!!!?? Everyone knows that all pro play with default control settings! The option to change key binding are totally for nubs.

[Valas Azuviir]

WHAT ARE YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT!!!?? Everyone knows that all pro play with default control settings! The option to change key binding are totally for nubs.

You do realize I hope, that trolling is against the forum rules (http://wow.incgamers.com/forums/rules).

If, you didn't know before, you know now. In addition, rule breaking makes me grouchy.. Although, you won't like it, when I get grouchy. So, it might be more prudent, not to break the rules no more.

:evil2:

[MixiMan]

You do realize I hope, that trolling is against the forum rules (http://wow.incgamers.com/forums/rules).

If, you didn't know before, you know now. In addition, rule breaking makes me grouchy.. Although, you won't like it, when I get grouchy. So, it might be more prudent, not to break the rules no more.

:evil2:

Lot's of posts are like this, i don't consider him trolling.

He was clearly making a joke, too bad you didn't think it is funny. I don't think it is funny, but it is by no means Trolling.

If people with a higher post count made that remark i bet you might even encourage him.

Cheers

[DrOsmius]

Some basics of mouse moving:

Left Button will let you look somewhere without changing your direction.
Right Button will turn your char the way the camera faces
Pressing both mouse buttons will make you move the way the camera faces with no need to press anything on the keyboard. (can be useful to get behind ur foes and quickly turn around to hit them)

Additionally, which seems to NEVER come up in these threads: if you hold down the right mouse button, the turn keys (typically A & D) become strafe action rather than turn action.

So myself, I use a combination of both mouse and WASD..and QE are not needed for strafing, and become hotkeys.

[Aerath]

Lot's of posts are like this, i don't consider him trolling.

He was clearly making a joke, too bad you didn't think it is funny. I don't think it is funny, but it is by no means Trolling.

If people with a higher post count made that remark i bet you might even encourage him.

Cheers

Check the remainder of his posts - there's precious little that doesn't constitute trolling in the past dozen - two dozen or so. (I didn't check back any further.)

[MixiMan]

My bad, read back a few posts and i now understand where Valas comes from.

[cloista]

To be honest, I used to be a keyboard turner and a clicker, I was for the first 2 years or so of playing.

When I came back a few months ago, I made myself learn to mouse move and hotkey skills.

I really wish I'd done it sooner, as I'm so much better now it's unreal.

[Duke Brand]

Get this through your brain. There is no latency involved. There is no reaction time involved.

If -you- on -your- computer turn with a mouse vs -you- on -your- computer turning with keyboard, the only difference in the equation is the speed difference in turning between the two options.

As stated above, it takes longer to turn by keeping a button pressed than a twirl with the mouse. Again, this has nothing to do with how fast your hand-eye-speed-reaction-speed-coordination-whatever is.

It solely has to do with mouse vs keyboard. Anything you mention is sidetracking the discussion and leading people to a faulty conclusion.

Logic, dear Watson.

Wow someone is getting a little pissy. My point was not comparing me on my computer vs me on my computer. Go back and read it and you will find that it is comparing me on my computer vs you on your computer. So yes latency would make a difference.


To add to that. If you're on a caster, you can forget about killing anyone if they reach you when you're using keyboard turning. You can not cast at anyone behind you, and you can't move through them without aborting casts.

This statement is completely incorrect, because as a shadow priest i rely on my dots to kill people, in which i do not have to be facing my target to get dots on them. As for kiting i don't need to turn around to cast SW:p or SW:d MF is a channeled cast so my toon follows the other player no matter where he goes. No turning involved. And if you have time in PvP to get a MB off then you are playing against a horrible player in the first place.

[Kugan]

This statement is completely incorrect, because as a shadow priest i rely on my dots to kill people, in which i do not have to be facing my target to get dots on them. As for kiting i don't need to turn around to cast SW:p or SW:d MF is a channeled cast so my toon follows the other player no matter where he goes. No turning involved. And if you have time in PvP to get a MB off then you are playing against a horrible player in the first place.

So you are a tanking Priest?

I would love to fight you on my Rogue. Actually, I’ve fought a few like that at AV this weekend… and I didn’t really enjoy killing them. There’s no fun in killing someone who doesn’t even try to kite you.

[Duke Brand]

So you are a tanking Priest?

I would love to fight you on my Rogue. Actually, I’ve fought a few like that at AV this weekend… and I didn’t really enjoy killing them. There’s no fun in killing someone who doesn’t even try to kite you.

Nah, I kite rogues and warriors. 13k hp and 370 resilence helps alot when you are just standing there stunned.

But yes in my 5v5 I am the tank.

[Clavina]

Wow someone is getting a little pissy. My point was not comparing me on my computer vs me on my computer. Go back and read it and you will find that it is comparing me on my computer vs you on your computer. So yes latency would make a difference.



This statement is completely incorrect, because as a shadow priest i rely on my dots to kill people, in which i do not have to be facing my target to get dots on them. As for kiting i don't need to turn around to cast SW:p or SW:d MF is a channeled cast so my toon follows the other player no matter where he goes. No turning involved. And if you have time in PvP to get a MB off then you are playing against a horrible player in the first place.

Thats all well and good and I'm happy keyboard turning works for you and your 3 spells. But the OP is asking about controlling his warrior in melee combat, for him (or her) keyboard turning = fail and mouse turning = win.

[Aerath]

Wow someone is getting a little pissy. My point was not comparing me on my computer vs me on my computer. Go back and read it and you will find that it is comparing me on my computer vs you on your computer. So yes latency would make a difference.

This statement is completely incorrect, because as a shadow priest i rely on my dots to kill people, in which i do not have to be facing my target to get dots on them. As for kiting i don't need to turn around to cast SW:p or SW:d MF is a channeled cast so my toon follows the other player no matter where he goes. No turning involved. And if you have time in PvP to get a MB off then you are playing against a horrible player in the first place.

I only get pissy when people continue to spread false information, which you still are doing.

[Duke Brand]

I only get pissy when people continue to spread false information, which you still are doing.


In your opinion it is false, in my opinion it is true. So to me you are spreading false information you don't see me getting pissy do ya? Get my point. It's still all opinion.....nuff said.

Oh and i'm curious what information in that last post is false?

[Aerath]

In your opinion it is false, in my opinion it is true. So to me you are spreading false information you don't see me getting pissy do ya? Get my point. It's still all opinion.....nuff said.

Oh and i'm curious what information in that last post is false?

My point is that your point is beside the point.

Latency does not come into play with mouse control, which was the topic of this thread. Your latency will not affect your opponent's performance difference between using a mouse or a keyboard.
Furthermore, your performance will be better when using a mouse as opposed to a keyboard due to far faster response time by mouse turning. (That is, before you start again, the game's response, not yours.)

As to turning keyboard based in an arena - it'll guarantee continuous attacks from behind. You not running into dagger rogues or feral druids much might not having driven the point home that this isn't a good thing.

[nosoup4crr]

I'm sure he's right--and it's every other person that's wrong.

By the way...The simple fact that this guy is able to get 360 resilience and however many pieces of MG gear is evidence enough that WoW's PvP system broke when they did away with ranks.

[Duke Brand]

I'm sure he's right--and it's every other person that's wrong.

By the way...The simple fact that this guy is able to get 360 resilience and however many pieces of MG gear is evidence enough that WoW's PvP system broke when they did away with ranks.

I did grind to Lt commander pre cross-server bg's, when bg's were actually good. So trust me the system is not broke. What's your pvp rank btw??? I'm just curious. I spent my time in 3-4 hour AV's i spent my time sitting in que, then going to a raid waiting to get into a battleground and finally after the raid the bg pops. So basically don't try to make a point unless you know the facts behind what a person has done.

I'm also curious what rated arena teams you have? Are the 1700+ I know mine sure are.

[MixiMan]

I believe the point was that turning with the mouse is faster and therefore better in PvP.

I agree with that point.

I don't really get what your point is here Duke, but if you could specify your point, i am sure that everybody is willing to conduct in a civilized discussion with you.

I believe there is a bit of drifting off topic going on here :P

[Spooky xxx]

i think his basic point goes like this:

statement: "turning with the mouse is faster and therefore better in PvP"
counter: "no its not, because i'm still good with the keyboard"

you can't really do anything about the stubbornness of someone who'll make an argument like that. you can't point out that although he *can* pvp with k/b turn, it'd be faster with the mouse. if someone *can* do it one way, and has done so for too long, they'll just become increasingly blind to alternatives.

[Spooky xxx]

well, the only thing you can do (in game) is repeatedly backstab them. when i find a kb turner in battlegrounds, i love to shred them over and over. as they ponderously turn on the spot, i leap (cat-like) behind them faster than they'll ever be able to face me.

personally i also quite like when you find a hunter who's backing away from you to get range, with the cat move speed talents you can run up to them, go behind them, shred and move backwards yourself as they're moving backwards. the confusion this causes i find quite funny :)

its not just daggers and cats that like being behind either. attacks from behind can't be dodged. you can't use a lot of your spells on something behind you.


but, on a forum, you can't do anything about the "i'm still good with the keyboard" fixation.

[Spooky xxx]

i think the testament that you can be moderately successful in wow with such a primitive control method is an ultimate proof wow will never be a major esport. can you imagine trying to do tournament level quake, or counterstrike, etc with kb turning? you'd get SLAUGHTERED time and time again, because the environment is not as forgiving as wow, and the average skill level is much higher. it'd be like a lvl 1 wow player going into arenas. seriously.

[nosoup4crr]

with kb turning? you'd get SLAUGHTERED time and time again

True story. It's no contest. I can't take someone seriously who makes a statement contrary to every common sense notion and every bit of advice from players who have higher credentials than a 1700 arena rating? I mean, really...1700 isn't exactly something you put on a resume. I'm a shadow priest as well--one who finished season 2 with a 2v2 and 3v3 team both above 1950 (still wearing 5 blues, no less)--and even that score doesn't give me enough leverage to go to a battlegroup forum, saying that I'm right and they're all wrong.

And if you're not casting mana burn or mind blast (as you previously stated were reasons why you didn't need to use mouse turning), that's likely the reason you're stuck at 1700.

[kslay]

i play a dwarf hunter and i have done ALOT of battlegrounds. in fact it's almost rare when i dont come in top 3 in HK and damage done in battlegrounds. and no, i'm not the type that goes off running by myself farming HK, but in AV when the alliance turtles, i always get mad kills.

in BG its easy being a hunter, stay back, send pet, and pew pew. anyone comes close to the graveyard (AV) just stay back and kill him. find places where you can still shoot but stay out of sight so enemies won't kill you first.

in arena, i've achieved an 1800 rating in both 2v2 and 3v3, and almost a 1700 in 5v5. back then i had crap gear so now that i'm decked in S2 arena gear i mite start doing arena seriously to try to get S3. arena was harder for hunters, because of LOS and deadzone issues. almost always the first to be targeted by the enemies.

however in 1v1 world battles, all i did was pop my TBW/BW and send pet. set a frost trap, and run the other way. concussion shot, and kite in circles. once in a while drop a freeze trap and start up an aimed shot. usually i put up aspect of the cheetah if it wasn't a warrior (since they can intercept and stun you) and just kite them to death. if its a rogue make sure to hunters mark and serpent sting them so they can't stealth or vanish for too long. put up track hidden if you want, it only helps a little bit, and put pet on aggressive mode. with mages, just make sure they don't get into your deadzone because good mages WILL. make sure you have the medallion of the alliance/horde because you'll need it. if you're BM hunter, any clothie will die easily.

[xDarkDrifterx]

with mages, just make sure they don't get into your deadzone because good mages WILL.

I love that now that our dead zone is basically non existent, mages still try to deadzone my hunter and get an arcane followed by a multi at almost point blank range . . . :grin: ahhh that keeps me smiling in BG's lately lol :thumbsup:

[Spooky xxx]

kslay- thats great. whats relevant about your post though? you didn't mention anything about how you control your character.

[morpHHooos]

Hi all, interessting thread, I'm also messing around with my controls since few weeks.

I'm also playing a warrior!
I usually used esdf+mouse, using s+f for strafing, e+d forward/backward , and mouse to turn. But i got some probs with that.

For example, when I strafe to the right side (f), I cannot use most of my skills, cuz they are on r-t-g-h, .. , I think many people have this prob. cuz I see much more "left strafers" than right.

So im forced to strafe to the left always, that my pointer finger is free to use skillz, and I hate it, I want to move/strafe in ANY direction I want and still be able to use all of my skills.

I tried to change the fingers which I use for moving:
strafe with little finger and ring finger, use middle finger for forward/backward, so my pointer finger is always free for using skills, I tried it two weeks, but I sucked even more in PvP and ended up using my old style again. :(

Press both mouse buttons. Et voila - you just moved ! :wink:

Ye nice Idea, but u still have restrictions with that, how do you want to move forward and at the same time targeting an enemy who is out of "tab targeting"-range.

As a warrior, you can't stop, you have to move ALWAYS, always in action, change direction, strafe through enemys, and at the same time you must be able to use all of your skills. Damn I should have stick to my shadowpriest ^_^..
nah, warrior is pretty fun, and I'm doing well with my controls atm...but.. yeah, it's not perfect. I cant control my toon 100% , and that makes me sad =/

need some advice from "pro" warriors, plz ^_^

/smile
/flirt
/kiss

:wink3:

[Amiral]

Regarding strafing only one way, that is really helped by being able to juggle fast between double mousebutton control and wasd/esdf.
If you want to strafe right, you move your forward finger to right strafe, and you still can button what you want.
The only problem is that when breaking effects with trinket while pressuing both mouse buttons as well as a keyboard button, is that your character can stop moving, and that is really annoying, when for example trinketing a nova and not moving until you've released all your buttons again.

[Spooky xxx]

morpHHooos - as Amiral says, try using 'both mouse buttons' some times to move so you can move your left hand fingers.

other thing is to rebind keys so they're reachable easier, from both sides.

[GameyHarp]

I never uses w,a,s, or d to move. I'm always holding both my mouse buttons for running/spinning and us my q and e for straffing. I use 30+, keybindings, my most often ones being used being 1-5. Shift+1-5, F, G, X, Shift+F and shift+G and R.

[Spooky xxx]

I never uses w,a,s, or d to move. I'm always holding both my mouse buttons for running/spinning and us my q and e for straffing. I use 30+, keybindings, my most often ones being used being 1-5. Shift+1-5, F, G, X, Shift+F and shift+G and R.

sounds dumb, you can't click target while moving, or look behind/around you. that'll be why hunters use snake trap i guess.

[Amiral]

I never uses w,a,s, or d to move. I'm always holding both my mouse buttons for running/spinning and us my q and e for straffing. I use 30+, keybindings, my most often ones being used being 1-5. Shift+1-5, F, G, X, Shift+F and shift+G and R.

sounds dumb, you can't click target while moving, or look behind/around you. that'll be why hunters use snake trap i guess.

well, if you make a macro for focusing a target, you wont have to worry about that..

basically, you bind your focus-key to something, then bind your select focus key, then select a focus, then just focus on it with the focus key...

[GameyHarp]

I don't click to target, I spam tab UNLESS, a hunter does use a snake trap which is the only time i do click. And because i've been on a PvP server my whole life of WoW i'm always spinning in circles looking for people, it's just second nature now.

[GameyHarp]

well, if you make a macro for focusing a target, you wont have to worry about that..

basically, you bind your focus-key to something, then bind your select focus key, then select a focus, then just focus on it with the focus key...

I will have to give that a try...

[mender of bad soles]

I've always found my method of targeting to be great; it also is faster than tab spam in my opinion.

I have target nearest bound to up-scroll on my mouse. I have previous target bound to down scroll. I have the same set up for allies with shift. I have the original camera functions set to control/alt +mousewheel.

Ronan

[Amiral]

I've always found my method of targeting to be great; it also is faster than tab spam in my opinion.

I have target nearest bound to up-scroll on my mouse. I have previous target bound to down scroll. I have the same set up for allies with shift. I have the original camera functions set to control/alt +mousewheel.

Ronan

hum, that sounds great...
Hope it works while having pummel on wheel-click,
*eek at switching to the warrior when about to pummel pally*

[sheeped]

I never uses w,a,s, or d to move. I'm always holding both my mouse buttons for running/spinning and us my q and e for straffing. I use 30+, keybindings, my most often ones being used being 1-5. Shift+1-5, F, G, X, Shift+F and shift+G and R.

This has really been bugging me as im trying to improve my gameplay as ive started doing competiitive arena :grin:. Im a frost mage and i always used to used wasd to move and mostly to turn except for the occasional run-jump-spin-fireblast-spin-land-run. Recently ive started binding my spells and abilities to my keyboard and started using the mouse to tun more, but im still using the keys to move forward and back. My question is if you use move using only the mouse (and keys to strafe) and hold both mouse buttons to run, how do you look around yourself?? I have me camera on "smart" so it always points the way im moving, and this has been mostly fine, ive been able to move with the keyboard and look all around with the mouse but how do you do this when you use the mnouse to move??! Is the answer to have the camera pointing only the way you want it too? and not automatucally follow you or what? If someone can tell me how they move, and still look around themselves i'd be greatful. Also when making any suggestions please keep in mind that i'd like to keep on targeting people with my mouse, as i think this is a far more efficiant and effective way of targeting people than, say, using tab or a macro. Thanks in advance for any replies

sheeped

p.s. sorry if this is a bit long winded :shocked:

[eatrocks]

I would like to know how those awesome pvp-ers who use the mouse keep the camera from going wonky when they move. I have been practicing with mouse movement and I always end up with my camera angled straight up at the sky or straight down at the ground :cry:

[Amiral]

I would like to know how those awesome pvp-ers who use the mouse keep the camera from going wonky when they move. I have been practicing with mouse movement and I always end up with my camera angled straight up at the sky or straight down at the ground :cry:

Then something's gotta be wierd about your gfx-settings... that's never happened to me.
Could be that you have set the camera to your mouse too, so it moves when you move the mouse and hold a button or something.

[Wintrow]

Holding Left-Click turns the camera
Holding Right-Click turns the character

I assume, perhaps wrongfully, that nobody deviates from this?
(as in, turns it off)

[Spooky xxx]

well, if you make a macro for focusing a target, you wont have to worry about that..

basically, you bind your focus-key to something, then bind your select focus key, then select a focus, then just focus on it with the focus key...

amiral, if you use focus macros thats fine, doesn't solve the problem of only using tab-target to target people being slower.



GameyHarp, so you sometimes just stand still and spin around on the spot, looking for people? or you run in small circles so you can see around you? that's terrible...
i run forwards and spin the camera around so i can see round corners, see behind me, etc while moving forward. this is crucial when bringing a flag home or whatever.
also when you let the mouse go, the camera rotates back to pointing forward, so its all good.


the 'nearest target on wheel scroll' thing sounds good, will also have to check that out.


sheeped, situationally i think best way is a combination of tab target and click target. tab is easy, you dont have to move your hands, you can do it with the camera pointing anywhere, its usually the fastest. but you can't use all your keys when you're doing this

click target is better if theres a lot of targets and you want a specific one. but you can't use the mouse to move when you're doing this

[Crossbones]

What I do is I keep my left hand on the WASD keys and I know my keys without looking so I just move it up when in the heat of battle to use those number keys for attacks...

I use my right hand on my mouse at all times, I would recommend if you have a turning around problem go to your interface and slide the slider on the first page so you can scroll out far with your mouse, it's like birds-eye view that lets you see a lot more.

[xDarkDrifterx]

go to your interface and slide the slider on the first page so you can scroll out far with your mouse, it's like birds-eye view that lets you see a lot more.

IMO ALL players should have this set at max and should pvp in bg's etc with the camera out all the way or darn close to all the way out. This will also increase your fps usually by a few frames. You see more of everything, can tell where those ranged attacks are coming from, see that rogue before he stealths, just see more in general which is a good thing in pvp (you don't need to be able to see your toon up close to perform actions). For instance if you're in WSG and you stand near where the path first opens up on to the roof with your back against the wall (not way in the corner) you can actually pan the camera far enough so that you can see the entrance from the tunnel to the roof and all around you withought moving. Setting your camera at max will change your BG's in a big way! It kills me everytime I see some guy spinning around in a circle to actually see people (inc shammy - where? behind you! turn turn turn oops to far turn turn - oh man I'm dead - scroll out man!!!), it makes you wonder exactly how big they are on their screen atm (probably taking up the whole thing). But my character looks cool and I want to see my glowing weapons as I hit people with them . . . /afk please.

[Spooky xxx]

xDDx agreed. camera all the way out, spin it around as needed with left mouse

btw- i tried the 'scroll wheel to target nearest enemy' thing, its actually nothing special at all because thats what the tab key is already, its already target nearest enemy.

[Lazt]

Frankly... No.

Whilst I would definitely agree to using the hot keys you're most used to and comfortable with (as long as they're within reach!)... Never ever use WASD to turn or move.

Keyboard turners are free honour kills. They will never catch a player that moves by using the mouse.

Frankly... No.

Whilst I would agree that as a melee class this MAY be true.... I started on a lock practically everything I do does not require I face my opponent... My dots can be applied to anyone near me rather they are behind me in front or whatever.

I started on the lock and began with the qweasd, so I am very good at strafing around melee'rs so they have a hard time getting to me.. And I own just about anyone anywhere. Only thing that even gives me any kind of a challenge "in most cases" is a very good epic'd rogue.

Now that I have a warrior (only lvl 32) I am starting to see how I may need to convert to mouse for him....

But for my lock, My left hand rests on awd and my right hand rests on 4567, I use 1-0 and - =, i also use Shift 1-0 and - =, and I use F1-F12, and Shift F1-F12. Using my right thumb to jump. Rarely using mouse to adjust camera angle if ever needed.

But again as I am getting more familier with my warrior im starting to think of other ways I could be more proficient with him. But using a mouse would not make my warlock any better at all........ I can run straigh away back facing my opponent and still dot them! When I drain life it auto follows them anyway even if they are circling me (rogues) and most fights before they would have time to go through me anyway i can turn while dotting them an dethcoil drain life.

[Aerath]

Frankly... No.

Whilst I would agree that as a melee class this MAY be true.... I started on a lock practically everything I do does not require I face my opponent... My dots can be applied to anyone near me rather they are behind me in front or whatever.

I started on the lock and began with the qweasd, so I am very good at strafing around melee'rs so they have a hard time getting to me.. And I own just about anyone anywhere. Only thing that even gives me any kind of a challenge "in most cases" is a very good epic'd rogue.

Now that I have a warrior (only lvl 32) I am starting to see how I may need to convert to mouse for him....

But for my lock, My left hand rests on awd and my right hand rests on 4567, I use 1-0 and - =, i also use Shift 1-0 and - =, and I use F1-F12, and Shift F1-F12. Using my right thumb to jump. Rarely using mouse to adjust camera angle if ever needed.

But again as I am getting more familier with my warrior im starting to think of other ways I could be more proficient with him. But using a mouse would not make my warlock any better at all........ I can run straigh away back facing my opponent and still dot them! When I drain life it auto follows them anyway even if they are circling me (rogues) and most fights before they would have time to go through me anyway i can turn while dotting them an dethcoil drain life.

You are missing the point Lazt.

You do NOT feature into this equation. You are entirely inconsequential to this. There is no debate. No nothing. The world at large does not care how you perform in PvP with using keys, because it is entirely irrelevant. Harsh, but the truth.

All that matters in this particular case, as stated several times now, is that turning by keys is much slower than turning by mouse and thus inferior. There is nothing else to it.

[Kugan]

IMO ALL players should have this set at max and should pvp in bg's etc with the camera out all the way or darn close to all the way out. This will also increase your fps usually by a few frames. You see more of everything, can tell where those ranged attacks are coming from, see that rogue before he stealths, just see more in general which is a good thing in pvp (you don't need to be able to see your toon up close to perform actions). For instance if you're in WSG and you stand near where the path first opens up on to the roof with your back against the wall (not way in the corner) you can actually pan the camera far enough so that you can see the entrance from the tunnel to the roof and all around you withought moving. Setting your camera at max will change your BG's in a big way! It kills me everytime I see some guy spinning around in a circle to actually see people (inc shammy - where? behind you! turn turn turn oops to far turn turn - oh man I'm dead - scroll out man!!!), it makes you wonder exactly how big they are on their screen atm (probably taking up the whole thing). But my character looks cool and I want to see my glowing weapons as I hit people with them . . . /afk please.

On my Paladin, yes, I’ll agree. I’ll probably agree with all ranged classes.

On my Rogue, I set the camera angle pretty close. It’s more important that I see if I’m in range of my target than to see what’s going on around me. If the camera is too far zoomed out, it might appear as if the target is close enough for me to hit it, while it is actually just out of range.

[borix]

I use W/S keys to move forward and backward. Sometime, when I'm lazy I use both mouse buttons together to run (such as when I'm traveling a long distance) In addition, I also use num-lock to travel long distances which means I dont have to hold down W and I can use the mouse without having to click or press anything.

I use the mouse + right click exclusively to turn and always keep my enemy centered in my screen. This way I know they are always in front of me for shadowbolts, etc (I play a warlock as main but use same technique for all classes). Basically I just hold right-click down and put the enemys face right in the center of my screen. and keep it there... this is key for enemies that like to run around you to throw you off, you have to flip around really quickly and I don't see how this could be possible with the keyboard alone.. what are you going to do when a nasty rogue runs in really close and starts running circles around you? You need the mouse in this situation or the opponent will always be behind you... at least I don't know of any other way to solve this problem with the keyboard alone, and on PVP servers like mine this happens everytime you are attacked in the world.

I use keys 1-8 and F1-F8 as hotkeys. I'm also going to add in F,R,V,C as hotkeys as well after reading this forum.

[Lazt]

You are missing the point Lazt.

You do NOT feature into this equation. You are entirely inconsequential to this. There is no debate. No nothing. The world at large does not care how you perform in PvP with using keys, because it is entirely irrelevant. Harsh, but the truth.

All that matters in this particular case, as stated several times now, is that turning by keys is much slower than turning by mouse and thus inferior. There is nothing else to it.

Apparently YOU dont read then?

He specifically said that if you dont use mouse you are "free hk".... period thats what he said. Regardless of what you think this discussion is about... my reply is to what HE said.

My point, was not about ME, but was about a warlock in general. And I DID agree that SOME class's...... definitely need mouse turning to be very effective.......

However, with a WARLOCK, there is almost no reason to use mouse to turn......... NOT ME... but WARLOCK. Dots can attack in any direction.... fear hits any direction... i dont have to face people to do ANYTHING EXCEPT deathcoil and SBolt, but I dont actually cast sbolts they are instant, so its not like i have to worry about someone running through me......

And if i do have to turn with keys I can dot people WHILE turning as to not waste a single second......

But hey.. you tried...


Edit: and again.. as I said certain class's.. especially with my mage, mouse is critical.

Additionally, I would go as far as to say that key movement awd + sqe is essential as well... because with two hands on the key boards most of the time....

left hand awd + shift(ctrl), you can move while having access to three times as many keys

No modifier
Shift
Ctrl

Those are the only 3 I use, im sure you could use more if you wanted to like alt maybe?

If you have 1 hand on the mouse at all times then even if you could use shift / ctrl, it would be much harder to reach all of your hot keys while holding shift.

So Mouse IS definitely nice to use, but only when you NEED to turn around q uickly. Not as a normal mode of movement.

[RioteR]

I use the mouse to turn left and right, but i still use the keyboard to actually move my character. it works perfectly fine for me, i can do very will in a BG as a rogue this way.

[snowieken]

Guys, it is getting quite heated. Maybe you want to stop and ask yourself if this topic is worthy of an argument like this?

[Xelycide]

I'm no pro but I am a bit of a control freak when it comes to the UI, and I use a combination of keyboard and mouse for movement/targetting. Extra mouse button toggles auto-run or mount (with a modifier). I absolutely can't stand keyboard rotation, in fact I can barely stand to see other people using it, so A and D are always strafe for me, W is forward, S backward.

I have my camera zoomed out as far as it will go almost always, set to never auto-follow my movement, and in the event I want to *very* rapidly center or reverse my view I make use of the not so commonly known binds for saved camera views and flip camera, currently on the side thumb wheel of my new mouse but I think I may end up go back to a modifier+scroll wheel setup for those since I can't seem to get used to the position of this new side wheel.. I'll probably put something less frequently used on it.