Why do the horde win EVERY match I play?

[Gavano]

I recently started played wow again and currently have a 57 dwarf hunter. I've played about 30 matches and lost each and every one of them. I always go in a group with my guild (4-5 people) and we almost always finish as the best 4-5 players in BG (or alliance side at least). My question is how come the horde win every match? Has the alliance got a disadvantage or something?

P.s: Just played two more AV games and lost 0-450 orso... This is seriously pissing me off cause I want to lvl to 70 and get nice epic gear. Without having to go 1-57 on a new horde account, simply because I actually want to enjoy the game.

[Polaba]

It is beyond me.

Maybe they have better coordination, racials...I honestly don't know. You would have to compare the /bg chat in both sides to really know, because I don't know what's going on. My guild has even assigned someone to film all of our games, paying specific attention to the horde (he's a rogue, can watch them in secret) and we still don't know what it is.

[pirhotek]

Well, in my battle group, Ruin, I would say Alliance wins AV more often than Horde. Probably 70%. But for all the rest of the BGs it is the exact opposite and with AB it is probably horde winning 90%

My half-informed theory is just that the Horde races and flavor attracts those players with a PvP mindset more than the Alliance does. So in general a random Horde group is going to have more experienced PvPers than the same random group from Alliance.

[Imraath]

I recently started played wow again and currently have a 57 dwarf hunter. I've played about 30 matches and lost each and every one of them. I always go in a group with my guild (4-5 people) and we almost always finish as the best 4-5 players in BG (or alliance side at least). My question is how come the horde win every match? Has the alliance got a disadvantage or something?

P.s: Just played two more AV games and lost 0-450 orso... This is seriously pissing me off cause I want to lvl to 70 and get nice epic gear. Without having to go 1-57 on a new horde account, simply because I actually want to enjoy the game.Probably because there are 4-5 players running around, undergeared for the level bracket in the battleground.

[Uruzz]

By "best 4-5 players" do you mean most kills? If so then you are missing the point of BGs they are about coordinated offense and defense. If you are just fighting in the middle of nowhere then you're doing something wrong. Also, you should probably wait until you're lvl 59 then start gearing yourself as if you were a twink.

PS: Horde are just better at killing stuff in the ruin battlegroup. Play a little bit in WSG, alliance seems to win more there.

[Cattleya]

Well, in my battle group, Ruin, I would say Alliance wins AV more often than Horde. Probably 70%. But for all the rest of the BGs it is the exact opposite and with AB it is probably horde winning 90%

My half-informed theory is just that the Horde races and flavor attracts those players with a PvP mindset more than the Alliance does. So in general a random Horde group is going to have more experienced PvPers than the same random group from Alliance.

Ah, but you see, in my battlegroup Horde dominate AV, lose more than they win in AB and WSG (but these are more even) and suck up EotS.

Horde in my BG lose in EotS because we are stupid about how we play it. It's not the racials, it's not the terrain. It's the fact that we spend the whole time bickering over if we are in AB or WSG. (In other words one set of people is is trying to 4-cap and the other is running the flag at all costs and we end up spread too thin.)

So, it really just depends on your battlegroup. I think that the people in battlegroups get used to certain strategies whether they work or not, and that is why you see certain patterns on a given battlegroup. In my opinion, the fact that these patterns change from battlegroup to battlegroup makes it hard to argue that there is some innate PvP difference between Horde and Alliance.

[Polaba]

What battlegroup are you in, Cattle?

I wanna join : /

[Cattleya]

What battlegroup are you in, Cattle?

I wanna join : /
Shadowburn. :grin:

[pounda]

It may just boil down to experience, I have a 70 troll hunter (Sunera) on thunderlord and BG ques are less than 2 minutes usually, whereas on my 65 pally (Griggs) on frostmane ill wait 15-20 minutes for the ques, maybe since alliance outnumbers horde on most servers the horde gets to play more games, more trial and error than alliance gets, that's just my theory

[Idlewild]

Honestly, I think there is a huge difference in the level of maturity on each side. I've pvp'd with a mage on Alliance and a resto druid / affliction lock on the Horde side. The biggest difference? Generally speaking, alliance players care alot more about HK's than anything else. Horde characters seem to be much better at working towards the goal, even in pugs.

Case in point, I left my resto druid at 60 for a long time to heal in AV, WSG and AB. In WSG and AB I was almost always the lowest player there. I can't even tell you how many times alliance characters would target me rather than the FC...I can remember several games where our FC was in the flag room about to cap for the win, and the alliance characters present would target me instead of the guy about to win the game. If that isn't selfish, I don't know what is...

[Tikki]

If I may refer you to this thread! ( Why is Horde better in BG's than Alliance??? (http://wow.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401934) )It has A LOT of the same debate :)

[xDarkDrifterx]

So, it really just depends on your battlegroup. I think that the people in battlegroups get used to certain strategies whether they work or not, and that is why you see certain patterns on a given battlegroup. In my opinion, the fact that these patterns change from battlegroup to battlegroup makes it hard to argue that there is some innate PvP difference between Horde and Alliance.

this is a perceptive and IMO accurate point. :smiley:

[SwervinCL]

Not in our battlegroup. The horde is ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE.

AV is a joke. Everyone goes on offense with the "lets rush to kill Van" Mentallity. No one stays back to hold up the fort. I will say that it is faster for the alliance to get into the horde base than vice versa. But what makes it even easier is that no one is there to fight back except for the NPC's.

The other night I did 15 AV's and walked away with 15 marks of honor. 9 times out of 10 im sitting next to the FW GY by myself. I look at my map and there is absolutely no one behind me in our base. Its a joke. It does not take the whole damn team to beat down Van. A good group of 10 can do it just fine. EOTS is the same that was said above. Everyone fights in the middle trying to get the flag. That is fine and dandy AS LONG AS THERE IS SOMEWHERE TO RUN IT.... The alliance let us have the middle and 4 cap us...

I hate it... the horde are pushing me away from PvP....

[irogue]

Not in our battlegroup. The horde is ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE.

AV is a joke. Everyone goes on offense with the "lets rush to kill Van" Mentallity. No one stays back to hold up the fort. I will say that it is faster for the alliance to get into the horde base than vice versa. But what makes it even easier is that no one is there to fight back except for the NPC's.

The other night I did 15 AV's and walked away with 15 marks of honor. 9 times out of 10 im sitting next to the FW GY by myself. I look at my map and there is absolutely no one behind me in our base. Its a joke. It does not take the whole damn team to beat down Van. A good group of 10 can do it just fine. EOTS is the same that was said above. Everyone fights in the middle trying to get the flag. That is fine and dandy AS LONG AS THERE IS SOMEWHERE TO RUN IT.... The alliance let us have the middle and 4 cap us...

I hate it... the horde are pushing me away from PvP....

Stop playing AV and join a premade for AB, EOTS or WSG. Don't play AV until Blizz fixes it.... :smiley:

[SwervinCL]

Stop playing AV and join a premade for AB, EOTS or WSG. Don't play AV until Blizz fixes it.... :smiley:

Then how do I get the AV marks I need for the items I need to get?

[Illiana]

Funny how these things seem to differ so much in between battlegroups. I mainly play Horde side on Aszune-EU (blackout battlegroup if I recall correctly), and I'd say we win more then we loose in AB and EotS (like 60%), and we win about 20% of all the AV games. (I honestly wouldn't know about WSG - I am not pugging that field of horrors anymore.)

Using the rush strategy in AV simply does not work for the horde - if we don't defend, we don't win. I would love to have my general and last two towers behind a long narrow bridge which is the ONLY way to enter my base - with the archers shooting at all enemies approaching the bridge.

On my server at least, we think that the alliance base is much easier to defend then the horde base.

And yet, there are still busloads of people who will not defend no matter what. Who think that doing well in a bg equals toping the killing blows list. I've long ago given up on telling them that you won't get much killing blows if you are in a group of 4 trying to defend your base against a 25 man zerg.

What I would like to see in AV is a random base switch - let the horde start in the north part of the map and the alliance in the south every now and then, altering the bases' graphics to match but leaving the geography unchanged... I'd love to see how that works out!

[Tikki]

An update:

I spent the majority of the weekend grinding up WSG tokens and honor for my lvl 19 hunter. As an alliance, and after reading all these "Horde rulez @ BGs!!" discussions, I had almost not confidence that we'd win.

We won about 75% of them. Surprisingly enough, once a strategy was developed for our side, we creamed the Horde. I would say we were equally matched in twink'ness.

so fear not you alliance folks! We do win sometimes!

[Xelycide]

After playing my undead shadowpriest in the Ruin battlegroup almost exclusively since TBC, I decided to dust off my poor neglected night elf druid, left hibernating in honor hold all this time. He unfortunately happens to be in the Stormstrike battlegroup. Being used to horde winning 75-80% of our the BGs unless facing a decent premade, it was pretty painful to find alliance doing so pathetically in AV that the vast majority of players don't even queue for it, and even going so far as organizing a mass boycott.

Way back when I was playing that character at 60, AV was the one BG alliance could often win, while getting completely dominated in the others. Now it's slightly less rare to see alliance win AB or EOTS, they still lose WSG almost always, and they get utterly annihilated in AV, hardly ever even getting *any* bonus honor.
I totally agree with the comment about certain battlegroups getting stuck into patterns whether they work or not. There's also a huge snowball effect in the way the pvp gear system works. When horde are on a long winning streak, they're also gearing up far faster than alliance, which only makes it even easier for them to keep on winning, and reinforces the alliance's defeatist attitude that they might as well get it over with and get their 1 mark.

I think it's also partly the way the "random" battlegroups ended up being pretty unbalanced in terms of skill levels and relative server progression, and the fact that the types of hardcore gamers who are happy to transfer or reroll a character just to PvP are more likely to know that horde is the place to be, and more likely to research the servers and battlegroups and choose one with other hardcore PvP players. There's also the old stereotype which I believe has some truth in it.. yes, there are some good pvp players on Alliance, but they're far outnumbered by the 11yr olds and casual players who don't even know what a FPS is.