Using a keyboard instead of Mouse (not a 'which is better' thread)

[nidanone]

Hi guys

This is not a thread about asking which is better, using a mouse or keyboard. I know that using a mouse is more precise, but... I bought a really good gaming mouse, tried to use it more than several times, and it's just not for me.

For one, I play on a laptop, so usually I'm on a sofa with my laptop on my lap. No room for an external mouse next to me. I've tried putting a book next to me and put a mouse pad on top of it...

But I just suck with the mouse, yes turning is very quick I love that, but I'm all over the place in a close fight, and not being able to back up is an issue (my other hand is busy on my action and macro keys, and with my other hand on the mouse... ) I suppose I could program one of my mouse keys as the backup key, but still... I'm very unprecise in my movements and positioning when using a mouse, and again, with a laptop on a coach, it just doesn't work out to well.


So.. my question is for people WHO USE A KEYBOARD and to try to get some advice on making that more precise.

I don't mean about which key you bind to what... I'm a lefty so it's different for me anyway. I use the arrow keys to move, and my left hand is the one that presses all the buttons.


My question pertains to trying to do something similar that you can do with a mouse, which is be able to 'view' for example 180 degrees and then turn that way.

I know with the arrow keys it takes longer to turn than with a mouse as it's not instant, but has anyone figured out a way (or is there some kind of addon) that perhaps helps with this?

Such as a keybinding that would maybe view left 90 degrees each time you press it (and another key that would view right 90 degrees on each press), and then moving forward would instantly make you go in that direction (assuming you were still holding that 'view' key)

I think that would be very useful if such an addon existed, or if there was a way to set that up some how.


Nidanone

[Pisken]

oh , another "leftie" :smile:

I dont use my mouse to move (though i tend to "doublepress" and quick turn sometimes)..... one big tip i can hand to you is to use the keypad for moving (5,8,4,6) and use the arrows for macros/targeting/triknets/whatever , easy reached by the thumb.That way i can be a "semi mouser" with my most used spells/abilitys/macros tied to arrow keys.
You can bind the other keypad keys to different uses too...like i got 7 for jump , 0 for autorun etc,etc,etc

A classic move i use withtthe rogue is "jumpturn" , i slap my 7 key and doublepress the mouse and twitch around , its so in my fingers i almoast cant jump anymore without turning :grin:

[caldepen]

Why is this in the PvP thread? Not a big deal but it is ironic because not using a mouse is not a huge deal in PvE but a death sentence in PvP. I sometimes use just the keyboard while I am eating or something but if I encounter an enemy toon than the food gets dropped and my hand reaches for the mouse. Which is usually too late...

[nidanone]

That's why it's in the PVP thread... I like PVP, but I haven't been able to get used to using a mouse to play.

So I'm trying to get advice from others who may be using the keyboard to PVP and see how they manage.

Again, I know that using a mouse is way better, but maybe with some tricks the keyboard can come close, I don't know.

[Pisken]

well , i played wow since beta , and did MUCH pvp with different characters....tryed to be a "mouser" several times but never got a hang of it (much because im a lefthander and keyboard isnt really designed for my playstyle, no matter where i put my right hand i seem to doublepress witht humb etc...etc)

I cant really say im "bad" at pvp (and with the rogue is much of controlling to be sucessfull) ..... moving with keys works , and can work good too despite of what all other "pros" say.

Just adept to it with the right skills/macros in reach of your thumb , and use a target key (very important) never ever click to target anything since you have to move your mouse from your "click area" , get a good setup on screen for the buttons (well , i use standard now but thats just from lazyness :smile: ) .... and i guess a good mouse is important too (Logi G3 is suiatable for us lefties with buttons we can reach)

[Aerath]

The problem is you're playing a rogue - one of the classes where fine tuning of movement actually is of the utmost importance.

For a mage, it doesn't make a huge difference whether you blast a fireball from 22 yards or 28 yards. The end result is the same.
To a rogue, being on 5 yards or on 11 yards makes the difference between not doing any damage at all and murderising someone.

[caldepen]

I cant really say im "bad" at pvp
Thats a poor measurement. Maybe you are good at PvP, but just think how great you could be if you used a mouse as well! I am a lefthander and use my left hand for the keyboard and my right for the mouse...

[Pisken]

Thats a poor measurement. Maybe you are good at PvP, but just think how great you could be if you used a mouse as well! I am a lefthander and use my left hand for the keyboard and my right for the mouse...

Oh hell , that is impossible for me i guess , i cant even pick my nose with right hand :grin:
And trust me i tryed to become a mouser , but my system works very well for me i guess and i thought i could share it.

And about my own measurment of pvp godness is that ive done it for 2.5 years or longer , rarley loose (xept if i get jumped by a better(counterclass) player that is :smile: ) , that goes for most of my characters ... but its witht the rogue i feel somehow handicaped by not mousemoving .... but usually i beat the "frantic running/strafing/jumping(stress) rogues" , just keep a cool head and you usually win anyways.

[Meds tbh]

Use this on the couch - no need for a book next to you or whatever, get into what ever slouched postion you want :)

http://www.fentek-ind.com/mltmww.gif

Or one of these :)

http://www.gearfuse.com/wp-content/uploads/samuel/mar07/gorone2.jpg

[nidanone]

wow those look cool. And I can imagine having better precision with a rolling ball than a mouse I move around.

Do you know what model/product #'s the above are so I can google them?

I have the Logitech MX Revolution now which is still like brand new, I may just sell that and try one of the above.


Thanks

[Tikki]

ooh i like the second one.

I myself and a key boarder....I often will set up my computer on my coffee table...with a wireless keyboard and mouse, it's sooo comfortable just to relax back...BUT it does mean I rely on the keyboard 90% of the time.

I find I still do well in PvP, BUT I play DPS characters...and my keyboard addiction may be why I never liked my rogue.

In the end, you have to do what makes you feel comfortable. I know using a mouse would help me play better, but I LIKE my couch, and therefore my keyboard suits me fine :)

good luck. Using a keyboard can be just as efficient as a mouse with a lot of classes.

[Meds tbh]

Just google trackcalls - it's the logitech brand name iirc - or tumb mice. I have the top one and it's great - I can lie on the couch watching some TV box set and have the mouse on my lap to craft in EQ2 with the lappy on the floor :)

[nidanone]

darn if only it had extra buttons though...

I programmed my MX revolution's buttons so I can take a health potion, etc. (things I would normally do with my right hand, while my left hand is busy pressing my attack buttons). I just couldn't get used to moving with the mouse.



BTW - just a thought regarding Rogues and precision... I'm a sword Rogue (not daggers), does that mean I don't have to be as precise as a dagger rogue? I don't need to get behind as I don't backstab, etc.

Being combat swords spec, could that mean that I may be able to get away with using a keyboard for pvp more than a 'dagger Rogue' would ?

[Kugan]

BTW - just a thought regarding Rogues and precision... I'm a sword Rogue (not daggers), does that mean I don't have to be as precise as a dagger rogue? I don't need to get behind as I don't backstab, etc.

Being combat swords spec, could that mean that I may be able to get away with using a keyboard for pvp more than a 'dagger Rogue' would ?

You still need to keep your target in front of you. And as soon as they realise that you turn with your keyboard, they are going to keep behind you. Other people also do less damage to you if you are behind them, and it is easier to keep up with someone if you turn with your mouse.

It’s important for all Rogues to move with their mouse, otherwise the are free HK.

[elsegundo]

i find that using a mouse is essential to playing. i hated it when i first started playing since i came from a console background, but after an hour of getting used to it, i cant go back. it makes turning a whole lot better and more controled. i play a ranged class most of the time and its wonderful to be able to strafe around a mob in a big circle. but since you play a rogue i have no suggestions there. good luck.

[nidanone]

Thanks

any advice then on learning to use a mouse to play? lol

Should I just go to some area with mobs 10-15 levels below me and play around to get some practice? (anything near my level would be suicide until I can control the mouse very precisely since I always have to be in Melee range)

[Herald of Doom]

Try playing some shooters. It will greatly improve your "mousepointing" skills. I play WoW as if it's a shooter:
zqsd keys for moving forward/backward/strafing, or wasd for qwertyusers
mouse for selecting clicking SOME icons + i have a logitech mouse so yay macros!

And although it isn't perfect it works good enough for me. If I pvp'd seriously I'd probably relearn my keyboard so I could use more keys :)

HoD

[elsegundo]

Thanks

any advice then on learning to use a mouse to play? lol

Should I just go to some area with mobs 10-15 levels below me and play around to get some practice? (anything near my level would be suicide until I can control the mouse very precisely since I always have to be in Melee range)

You just gotta keep using the mouse. thats basically it. my gf is learning how to use the playstation controller. she's not used to it because she's never played before and can only press one button repeatedly. after a while she'll get used to the controller. it was the same for me when i started playing using the analog sticks. same with the mouse... it just takes a little practice.

- try dueling with others.
- try going to lower level instances where no one will see you mess up. haha.
- try playing with a class that requires more use of the mouse (hunter w/o pet)

also, some things to do with your mouse: you can turn and look by holding down the left mouse button, then hold down both at once to run in the direction you're looking.
pressing q/e while running will make you strafe, but when you let go, you'll still be running.
strafe and turn with your mouse. pick an npc. strafe around him while looking at him. try to keep the same distance. make a complete circle and repeat going the other way. you dont know how often i do this to reposition myself against a mob especially in dungeons. if you do this fast enough, you can basically use this move to get behind someone.


edit: i am also a lefty but i can use both hands for mouse functions. but a prefer using my right hand to play. at work, my mouse is on the left, and i have no problems using it. again, it just takes a little practice. i used to be really clumsy with my mouse on the left hand, but now its natural. muscle memory!! woot! at work i have to use my left hand to control the mouse because i use my right hand for the 10-key all the time. oh and if you dont want your mx revolution, you should try replacing it with a keypad. the fang from ideazon or the n52 by belkin comes to mind. it keeps your keys together in one place. google them and see if they're something you'd like.

[nidanone]

Thanks for the advice, I like those practice ideas lol

I'll take some time maybe this weekend and hook up the mouse again and see how it goes.

The Fang of Ideazon still requires a mouse right? In that case I like the MX revolution because of the programmable buttons. Hopefully with some practice I can get used to using a mouse.

Thanks again

[elsegundo]

Thanks for the advice, I like those practice ideas lol

I'll take some time maybe this weekend and hook up the mouse again and see how it goes.

The Fang of Ideazon still requires a mouse right? In that case I like the MX revolution because of the programmable buttons. Hopefully with some practice I can get used to using a mouse.

Thanks again
you're welcome. and yes, the fang does require a mouse, but it has a lot of buttons right there so you might be able to simply use a simpler mouse with maybe three buttons. i know the mx revolution is a nice mouse. i actually envy you. anyway i have the n52 to use for all my button reconfiguration needs. i like it much better than using the keyboard. i only use my keyboard to type. but the topic is about the mouse, and so yea practice makes perfect. good luck!

[nidanone]

Hi

maybe I'm mouse-retarded... or maybe it's supposed to be like this ...

when I'm fighting, say in PVP, and I'm turning / spinning around attacking a player, after a little while my camera view is "bird's eye"

This is actually ok for during the battle I don't really mind it much, problem is I lose my sense of direction once I've killed the player lol

Just wondering if this happens to others with the mouse or if I'm not properly controlling the mouse while fighting. I suppose I can move the camera view while fighting (one more thing to worry about...kek)

[elsegundo]

Hi

maybe I'm mouse-retarded... or maybe it's supposed to be like this ...

when I'm fighting, say in PVP, and I'm turning / spinning around attacking a player, after a little while my camera view is "bird's eye"

This is actually ok for during the battle I don't really mind it much, problem is I lose my sense of direction once I've killed the player lol

Just wondering if this happens to others with the mouse or if I'm not properly controlling the mouse while fighting. I suppose I can move the camera view while fighting (one more thing to worry about...kek)im going to take a BIIIIIIG guess.... you're using a WIRELESS LOGITECH mouse?

edit: nevermind. i remember you telling me you're using the MX revolution. im jealous. haha.
but yes, all the wireless mouses from logitech does that to my gameplay. i usually shake the mouse and it fixes itself. other times its worse where a button "sticks". in any case, updating drivers etc will not work. i've thought this was a nvidia issue but i might be wrong. plugging in a wired mouse makes it work perfectly, even the ones from logitech. however, i've tried this for a few days and its worked great so far.... dont use a hub. stick the wireless receiver directly to your computer's usb outlet. hope this works. but really, its really just your wireless logitech mouse messing up.

[nidanone]

Yes the MX Revolution.... is that a known issue with it? :(

[elsegundo]

from my personal experience:
only happens with wireless logitech mouses (i have 3 wireless and 1 wired logitech mouse).
only happens in WoW.
only happens (so far, been a few days) when i connect the receiver to a hub, and not directly to a computer.
updating video drivers help but i still get the problem, just not as often (i have nvidia geforce).
updating the mouse drivers and software does nothing.

[visag]

oh , another "leftie" :smile:

I dont use my mouse to move (though i tend to "doublepress" and quick turn sometimes)..... one big tip i can hand to you is to use the keypad for moving (5,8,4,6) and use the arrows for macros/targeting/triknets/whatever , easy reached by the thumb.That way i can be a "semi mouser" with my most used spells/abilitys/macros tied to arrow keys.
You can bind the other keypad keys to different uses too...like i got 7 for jump , 0 for autorun etc,etc,etc



A classic move i use withtthe rogue is "jumpturn" , i slap my 7 key and doublepress the mouse and twitch around , its so in my fingers i almoast cant jump anymore without turning :grin:

yeah but dude...he has a laptop he said^^

[Pisken]

oh , missed that part i guess , but hey laptop gaming is a forcemouse steer device :grin:

[Lazt]

I use a laptop as well, (love it) however I have a cooling pad on a small desk setup at the end of my bed so I can play until I am sleepy then just lay down. And I have room for a normal mouse on this small desk.

When I started my warrior I figured out that I definitely needed to use the mouse for pvp, and same with my mage. But my warlock on the other hand I never, well almost never have to use mouse at all. Never "HAVE" to, and hardly ever even helps to..

So you may want to consider a warlock if you can not use mouse and do not want to keep trying to get better with mouse, or if you simply cant use mouse because you play on the couch or whatever...

Not because warlock is so OP (which they are I pown with mine) :) But because almost everything they do (PvP spec Sl/Sl) can be cast anywhere. If someone runs through you and your casting a dot or fear, it will still hit them no matter if they are in front or behind or side or whatever..... Onlything you really have to face them for is SBolt or DeathCoil.... And if your not facing them you can simply cast a dot or two while your turning towards them so zero time is lost..... drain life will auto follow them no matter how much they walk through you or circle you... So ultimately the mouse is *almost* not needed at all on the lock.

Anyways, just an idea ;)