How about a viable endgame plotline for the solo guy?

[caldepen]

I think that would be nice. Endgame stuff with endgame rewards for people who solo and shun guilds. Maybe some spy stuff, or assassination work for Thrall. And I don't mean a little quest line, but a way to get towards the very end of the game not in a guild. I know Blizzard wants you in one but it would be nice to support the non-guild people a little more...

[mesonm]

I think that would be nice. Endgame stuff with endgame rewards for people who solo and shun guilds. Maybe some spy stuff, or assassination work for Thrall. And I don't mean a little quest line, but a way to get towards the very end of the game not in a guild. I know Blizzard wants you in one but it would be nice to support the non-guild people a little more...

I would support this, if the gear rewards didn't support the normal PVE specs. Thus, you might have to develop a set of talent specs that are down a different path from what is present today. And, this isn't going to happen. Blizz has other things on their mind, IMO.

If, on the other hand, you rewarded the solo'ers with gear that was equivalent to tier 6, many people would not raid....

[caldepen]

If, on the other hand, you rewarded the solo'ers with gear that was equivalent to tier 6, many people would not raid....

You shouldn't have to raid if you don't want to... make the solo play just as hard as raiding, just different.

[DrScience]

If Bliz could find a way to make this work, i'd be all over it. I rarely have the time to sit down and run a raid - life beckons.

[mesonm]

You shouldn't have to raid if you don't want to... make the solo play just as hard as raiding, just different.

But....how?

You want them to make solo play that is as hard as coordinating 25-man raids, but don't say how to do so.

[caldepen]

There are plenty of super difficult solo games out there. Coordinating 25 man raids is not the only tough gaming experience, besides only the leader coordinates, the rest do what they are told! Have quest lines and reputation building experiences where you have to do covert ops deep in enemy territory. That sort of thing. Make solo instances where it is incredibly difficult to navigate through requiring pin-point accuracy not to get too many adds. Have a cool storyline wherein you are performing missions with specific tasks (007 kind of stuff). Make them class specific, rogues can stealth into areas to spy or assassinate, priests can go on heroic pilgrimages, warlocks on demonic ritual quests, hunters on ultra rare hunts with no specific location (tracking a beast across Azeroth killing offspring or competing NPC hunters), etc.

And the list goes on, the only limit really is the imagination of the creator...

But to say that the only way to make it difficult is for 25 man raiding is unreasonable.

[caldepen]

sorry for the double post but I wanted to apologize for the tone of the last one! After re-reading it, it comes off as harsh and I did not mean it to be. Just something I feel is important. There is a larger percentage of people that solo than people (and Blizzard) realize and it would be nice to throw them (us) a bone.

[snowieken]

Haha, let's wait until twoflower discovers this thread and starts ranting about solo players not having business in a MMORPG again. All in good fun, twoflower. :wink2:

Seriously, though, I somewhat agree. I once read that suggestion of having instances geared towards the solo player, with instance quests and instance rewards, and a damn fine player skill required to get through it. I thought that was a marvelous idea. I personally love going into caves in the world, pulling mobs carefully and killing them off one by one (or two by two) in order to get to the chest or the rare mob that is bound to be inside. It's darn frustrating sometimes to discover another player in those caves, taking away mobs and treasure from you. It would be nice if this content somehow could be experienced instanced, so that you can play a solo game inside a multiplayer game every now and then.

The emphasis for me, however, is on "every now and then". Wanting to play solo does not mean I should give up on an MMORPG. I would very much miss the multiplayer aspect, the ability to trade my stuff and play cooperatively or even PvP. But sometimes it would be nice to do your thing at your own pace and to not be bothered by other players, trying to do the same.

After all, a nice suggestion, but as mentioned I don't think Blizzard is ever going to implement something like this, specifically for the reason that they made WoW a multiplayer game.

[wyren]

Blizzard realizes that it is hard enough to get raid groups together without rewarding loners. It does not want to reduce the pool of available players at all. This sucks if your primary game time is from 1-5 am at work. oh well. I still love the game.

[caldepen]

Blizzard realizes that it is hard enough to get raid groups together without rewarding loners.

Thats a solid point. I wonder if they could structure it sort of like bgs where you could raid with others from other battlegroups? Although I confess I don't really know how that works! Wouldn't that make it easier to find groups?

The emphasis for me, however, is on "every now and then".

I agree with that as well. I would like to have my cake and eat it too! Those that say this is a MMORPG and there is only one way to play are making it too black and white. Why can't we have both? Sometimes I would like to play in the world but not interact directly with others all the time and I think there are lots of people who play the same way.

[mesonm]

I wonder if they could structure it sort of like bgs where you could raid with others from other battlegroups?

Pug Hyjal, FTW.....

ROFL

[Your Average WoW Player]

Pug Hyjal, FTW.....

ROFL

Quoted for Truth.

Raid instances require a lot more teamwork then battlegrounds. Battlegrounds are simple enough that a few quick words here and there pretty much outlines the stratagy:
"Example: Everyone zerg the flagroom!"
And there you have your whole entire stratagy, and the rest of it is up to the individual players carrying out their class duties and working togather as best as they can.

Granted, going into BGs with a pre-made group (IE: With your guild) is 100x better, but that leads into why queueing up for Raids wouldn't work.

Raids require a LOT of forethought, "during-thought" and knowledge. Raid leaders have to sift through their guild, know who does what, who has what, and who can do what, and then assemble the best possible group given their knowledge of their guild and the instance. Then, you have to set aside time in order to do it, most guilds set aside 6-8 hours or so to devote to a raid instance. Why? They take time, gotta get the group togather, stop, think out stratagy etc. I tried in the old world to pull togather AQ20 and ZG PUGs, I have enough knowledge about the game to know what classes I need, and I was able to have moderate success with these groups, but it PALED in comparison to what I had when I ran with my guild. Reason being is we all knew each other, how we worked, and the likes. Also, raiding with the guild is MUCH easier to laugh off a wipe and keep slugging on, which REALLY changes the mood. It's harder to do that with PUGs.

Also, queing up for the Raids could potentially have INSANE wait times. BGs are now done, on average, in relativly quick pace. I'd say an average WSG is about 10-20 minutes, AB is about 15-30 minutes, AV is about 30-45 minutes, and EotS is about 15-30 minutes. Raids average about 6-8 hours (usually more), this is also based on a guild that is currently at-best in gear challenging the best instances for them. Example: Tier 5 guild hitting up BT and Hyjal or Dungeon Set 3/Heroics hitting up Karazhan.

Another big thing with Raids is gear. There really aren't any gear requirements for BGs, granted if your a fresh 70 you're going to get your ass handed to you on a gold platter lined with platinum by those who have been 70 for some time. You couldn't enter Hyjal with Heroics and Dungeon set 3 and expect to have a chance. Guilds usually make sure that gear checks out, and Blizzard is having a hard enough time trying to get BGs so that players are pitted against people who have similar gear.

Edit: Damn I rambled.

[mesonm]

Another thing....If you had cross-server raids, how would you fill a spot? How would you make sure you could get a healer to take the spot of the healer that just left?

Me: Oh heck, the darnassus healer just dc'd....can't wait, since he won't be able to get back in our raid....Find a new healer..."

New Healer: "Oh, you've already killed Tidewalker? (a boss in SSC) No way I'm getting a raid ID just to help you guys, since I needed him...bubye!

[caldepen]

those are valid points... haha... just brainstorming i guess. But anyways I think my original point remains that there should be instances and endgame content for solo'rs.

[Twoflower]

Haha, let's wait until twoflower discovers this thread and starts ranting about solo players not having business in a MMORPG again. All in good fun, twoflower. :wink2:

you *#%ç!&@! soloers !!! :D

seriously though, i thaught about that some times aswell. it would be realy cool. And even if the reward is nothing but a title. A solo instance, of course different for every class, where hunters have to manage their pet and kite, mages have to AoE etc etc, both for a challenge and for learning to play the class better would be realy great.

on the other hand, yes, it IS a multiplayergame :P

but it would be realy difficult to balance. there are warriors who are fresh level 70 and couldnt solo a rat in the deeprun tram. There are warriors who can solo garr. you would probably have to design the instance so that it changes depending on your spec and your gear level. All in all a heck of work, and i dont realy see blizzard doing this.

specialy as they said that they think that the amount of single player stuff in the game with all the leveling areas, quests, professions etc. is allready huge as it is. And yes, i have to agree with them :) except instance grinding and bg grinding ( which are instances aswell ) there is NOTHING you cannot do solo.

besides only the leader coordinates, the rest do what they are told!

oh i certainly hope not. that would be a hell of a stress for the raid leader. and if anything goes wrong, noone would know how to react until told what to do. Maybe such a raid would get trough karazhan, but i doubt they would make it even that far.

*ramble ramble ramble*

right on so many levels...

[caldepen]

The more I think about it a super hard solo-able instance where you are on a class directed mission would be great fun. Maybe make it the same instance but have different ways for classes to solve it...

[Super Sneaky Steve]

I totally agree with the OP. I hate guilds, but I'm in one because I have to, to do endgame stuff. I would really like a way to get decent epics solo. Even if it's a long chain.

[Twoflower]

I would really like a way to get decent epics solo.

crafting professions. BoE world drops.




let's be honest here for a moment. if you do nothing but soloing, and i mean NOTHING, no PuG battlegrounds, no 5 man instances etc, what do you need epics for ? You wont even meet elite mobs. Questing can be done in greens mostly.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

crafting professions. BoE world drops.

let's be honest here for a moment. if you do nothing but soloing, and i mean NOTHING, no PuG battlegrounds, no 5 man instances etc, what do you need epics for ? You wont even meet elite mobs. Questing can be done in greens mostly.

Because it's cool. And if there were hard solo instances then the epics would help me do increasingly difficult solo missions with more success.

That's the whole point. We want more endgame challening quests for solo players.

[Twoflower]

We want more endgame challening quests for solo players.

I would really like a way to get decent epics solo.

which is it now ? do you need the epics to motivate you or do you wanna do it for the challenge ?

if you want it for the challenge, noone is stopping you to go and try soloing stratholme, rampards or slavepens. There were people soloing heroic slavepens, heroic durnholde, the headless horseman etc. Go, find your challenge.

If you want items, well, that aint that easy. and i dont see blizzard developing MORE single player contend for a MMORPG which is allready 98% accesable for solo players.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

What do I want? I want it all! I want the challenge, gear and just more stuff to do.

You could use the same logic for raids. People could do kara in greens for more challenge instead of going on to a harder raid, but they want more cool stuff.

I doubt they will do the single man instance, but I can still want it.

[mesonm]

What do I want? I want it all! I want the challenge, gear and just more stuff to do.

You could use the same logic for raids. People could do kara in greens for more challenge instead of going on to a harder raid, but they want more cool stuff.

I doubt they will do the single man instance, but I can still want it.

Yup...You can dream....even if it never happens....the dream is still valid, and beneficial.

"the gear" can't be the same that you'd get in PVP or in 25-man PVE, or you'd remove the reason for one of those two.

Do you have proposals of how to resolve that issue?

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Well, I can brain storm a little.

They could make items that are really balanced, for a one man army. For instance, I'm a Ret Paladin. They could make gear that gives +healing, +str and +def.

[caldepen]

"the gear" can't be the same that you'd get in PVP or in 25-man PVE, or you'd remove the reason for one of those two.

How about the reason to do something is because it is fun? If you need a reward to do something ingame (or out of it for that matter) you should re-evaluate what it is you are doing. I would like solo stuff Because I like it, just like I enjoy raiding occasionally and BG's occasionally and watching TV occasionally (imagine - "Well if I watch 'Friends' I am going to get a reward!")

[mesonm]

How about the reason to do something is because it is fun? If you need a reward to do something ingame (or out of it for that matter) you should re-evaluate what it is you are doing.

first, I was answering Steve....

Second, are you saying that you'd play a game where everyone was [mostly] the same, and the only difference was that people played different solo instance? After all, if there is no gear reward, we could extend that to all raids, and everyone would still play, right?

And finally, you get a reward from watching TV...it is entertainment....many people like the gear drops because they are part of the entertainment....

[snowieken]

let's be honest here for a moment. if you do nothing but soloing, and i mean NOTHING, no PuG battlegrounds, no 5 man instances etc, what do you need epics for ? You wont even meet elite mobs. Questing can be done in greens mostly.Err, I tried so hard in my last post to put the emphasis on playing solo every now and then. Did anyone here say they do nothing but soloing? I don't think so, so there's no need to go into extremes here...

[celticshinobi]

Im not trying to play dumb here..but, what else could there actually be for a solo player? (honest question) as there's so many hundreds of quests to be done..there's tons of mobs to go farm (Just thinking about a solo-able instance designed for one player that's not concerned with loot rewards reminds me of just farming random mobs which is already a possibility in the game anyway)

Though, the professions are solo adventures in a way...my Lionheart was a pure solo journey lol - and I got an epic out of it! lol

[corga]

wasnt 1-69 enough solo for you. lvl 70 is about teamwork, nuffsaid

[NickKish]

I'd go for something like this... I mainly quest solo to level up/get gold/etc, so some endgame plot questing would be a nice alternative to raiding. I was never 60 when that was endgame and my big push was just to get to 70. But as they say, endgame is an entirely different game (escpecially for me since I've only really solo'd quests!). I like some of the ideas of harder class-specific quests.

[jrichard]

Create the solo dungeons and rate them. At lower ratings the mobs don't hit as hard, have as many hitpoints, etc. At higher ratings that all goes up and extra abilities are unlocked for them. Don't run it with drops, give the dungeon a vendor and make various item levels from that vendor require a minimum rating to buy. Also, make it somewhat of a grind on the rating. By that i mean that to get to the highest levels of items from it, you have to run the place quite a lot.

I actually like this idea better than arenas and bgs for solo players as you couldn't have others pushing a person to higher ratings since they'd be in the dungeon by themselves.

Have a similar idea for raid dungeons, but that's another thread as it gets somewhat more complicated. :)

edit: Forgot to add, just itemize this gear for solo play. For instance, i don't grind in my raid boss gear. I dump unneeded spell hit for damage. It would seem to me that the easiest way to separate gear gotten from soloing and raiding is to itemize it differently. Much like how most of the arena gear isn't very good for raiding as it blows itemization points on pvp centered stats.

[ZaxGreia]

There is a solo "instance", btw. Try the Shartuul transporter event in Blade's Edge.

It's not easy, presents epic-quality rewards if you're successful, and punishes you pretty harshly if you lose (only one person can do it at a time).

I've tried it several times, and got as far as the third boss last time. It's tough :)

Based on how little play the event gets, and how many instance groups are always forming in major cities, I'm guessing the solo crowd is pretty sparse.

I mean, I'm not averse to soloing an old-world instance from time to time - I was very pleased with myself for soloing Scholo a couple weeks ago - but I think that sort of thing should be a personal goal. If Blizzard starts creating a bunch of solo-tuned instances with the same gear rewards as the group instance, it'll pull people from groups.

Also, how can there be an instance tuned appropriately for all 9 classes? If Blizzard won't balance all classes against each other, they won't balance an instance for all classes to be able to solo...

[joejanko]

on the other hand, yes, it IS a multiplayergame :P


It's also a role-playing game (mmoRPg!), but that hasn't stopped Blizzard from totally ignoring that aspect of it. :D

[elsegundo]

you can roleplay as a solo-ist.... cant ya?

[caldepen]

Forgot to add, just itemize this gear for solo play.
That would be a great way to stop raiders from complaining about solo content. If the gear rewards are good but not that useful for raiding then it makes sense.

I don't think it would be that hard to implement either. There are plenty of pre-fab maps they could use. Come up with a few plot lines and whammo!


Also, how can there be an instance tuned appropriately for all 9 classes?

They could have 3 specific instances, one for tanks, one for dps and one for healers.

[jrichard]

I'd want to see 9 different versions of the dungeon. Make it so when a given class enters it, they have to face challenges specific to their class.

For instance, if i went in with my mage i'd have fights where i'd need to kite and keep the mob away, fights where i need to burst hard and beat a short enrage type timer, and one where i'd need to conjure enough food and water to make the mob full and fall asleep. (couldn't resist that last one)

The whole idea being, Zax, that most of the balance problems in the game involve grouping whether it be 5 mans, raids, or pvp. A solo instance shouldn't have to deal with those issues, just tune each for version for the class that will be in there. At the highest rating levels, it should be insanely difficult.

[Avalian]

There is a solo "instance", btw. Try the Shartuul transporter event in Blade's Edge.

It's not easy, presents epic-quality rewards if you're successful, and punishes you pretty harshly if you lose (only one person can do it at a time).

I've tried it several times, and got as far as the third boss last time. It's tough :)

Based on how little play the event gets, and how many instance groups are always forming in major cities, I'm guessing the solo crowd is pretty sparse.



As someone who switches frequently from raid content to solo content, with a preference for solo content I do have to say that basing the amount of solo players off of Shartuul is forgetting how you got to Shartuul's Teleporter in the first place. You have to have gone through the Ogri'la attunement - do you recall the series of 5 man quests leading up to that? I would assume that most solo-ers aren't even aware why Shartuul's Teleporter is sitting there.

Blizzard believes they have solo end-game content already in the form of daily quests. They function the same for a solo person as raid content does for the raid group. You have to grind them over and over and over and over again to ever get anything worthwhile from them. They do not provide epics, but they provide more gold in a day than I have ever received from running a raid instance. It takes a weeks raiding for my raid toon to see anything useful for him anymore, and it takes a weeks dailies for my solo toon to save enough money to craft his next epic item (or buy a boe off the ah).

I do find it still amazing that people want MORE end game content when 90% of blizzard's attention is focused on end game content already. With the number of people who complain about all the grinding to see them begging for more end-game (which is always grinding) content seems so strange, rather than asking for broader content in the mid game so that doing another alt is not grinding.

[caldepen]

I am not looking for a solo grind (turn in 40 monkey hearts). I am looking for tuned instances for a solo player. Make them crazy difficult and good rewards. I think making them for each class would not be as hard as one would think and would be immensely gratifying to me and I believe others would enjoy as well!

[Wintrow]

I'm thinking off the pre-BC Hunter quest for their epic bow/staff/quiver. It required you to kill 4 demons with specific hunter-vulnerabilities that would despawn as soon as someone else got in a xx yard radius or buffed you in any way.

THAT kind of solo quests.

I'm thinking of the Swift Flight Form quest for Druids. The pre-BC Benediction/Anathema quest.

On top of that, yes, an instance only one person can enter at a time would be fun.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

You don't need instances for tanks, healers and DPS. The idea is you have to do it all yourself. So if you're a healer, you'd have to respec to get some defence and DPS. Every class can solo if they spec for it.

Just like you may have to respec if you go from PVP to PVE. It would add a third dimension to the game with very little effort.

[Tr1cK]

You don't need instances for tanks, healers and DPS. The idea is you have to do it all yourself. So if you're a healer, you'd have to respec to get some defence and DPS. Every class can solo if they spec for it.

Just like you may have to respec if you go from PVP to PVE. It would add a third dimension to the game with very little effort.

Yes, but some are much better at it than others. Locks, Hunters, and Druids walk through a lot of stuff that presents challenges to others like Warriors for example.

On that note, I highly doubt you will ever see solo instances.

@ OP: I'd love a quest to get your rug back. You know, the one that really tied the room together. :laugh:

[ZaxGreia]

You have to grind them over and over and over and over again to ever get anything worthwhile from them. They do not provide epics, but they provide more gold in a day than I have ever received from running a raid instance.
They do (eventually) provide epics, since almost all the dailies result in rep with some faction or other. I got an epic mount through my Netherwing questline, and you can get other epic items from Ogri'la and Skyguard.

I think the grinding is silly too, but on some level I still enjoy it. It's not like I log in and say, "Wow - I haven't done enough grinding lately!", but I still do it because I want some reward I can only get with more money/rep. The new dailies in 2.4 are really easy to access, and most are really fun (tested all of them out on the test realms - they're great!).

I'm also with Blizzard that since this is a Massive Multiplayer Online RolePlaying Game, it needs a high percentage of group-only content. It's silly to expect an entire game worth of solo content on a game that's built specifically for multiplayer.

Even if they did their best to balance instances, etc, solo play would result in a homogenezation of classes and abilities. Remember what shamans and paladins were like pre-TBC? It's just not something that helps the game improve overall, though I also would enjoy the things you're talking about. I just don't see it helping the game get better for enough people to make it worth it.

[caldepen]

@ OP: I'd love a quest to get your rug back. You know, the one that really tied the room together

buffed with white russians...