Karazhan - Opera help!

[Hagar the Horrible]

Recently I’ve been raiding Karazhan with some friends and we came to a standstill at Opera last time.

We got the Romulo and Julianne event and we couldn’t stop Julianne from healing, so in the end we wiped cause our healers suffered from OOM-itis

warrior tank
druid tank
BM hunter
MM hunter
ret paly
fire mage
dps warrior
holy priest
resto shaman
holy priest

Any chance this group can tackle R & J event (Opera) in Karazhan? We can’t sub in some rogues or so to kick Julianne, it’s really this group that has to do it.

H.

[Morollan]

One way it would be doable would be to have a very precise order of interrupts. You do have a fair amount of them available but they are all on different characters.

Other option would be to let the priests handle the healing and get the resto shammy on interrupt duty. 6 sec cd on earthshock is usually more than enough to deal with the heals.

[stoltesomfaa]

What kind of kill order do you have on R & J?

[swaldman]

What kind of kill order do you have on R & J?

Er.......
They have to die together. If one dies without the other, you start again!

[Twoflower]

you have 5 people interrupting. 4 if the def tank is better equipped than the bear tank and has to take romeo. Still, usualy you have enugh interrupts with the mage and the dps warrior.

and yes, you have to kill them together. ( within 5 seconds of each other )

[dwarfenhelm]

easy way all group on july get warrior to tank and shield bash spells and use mage to spell steal, important to make sure they dont interrupt the same spell. when dead get druid to tank romeo and just dps him down.
now the important part after they both res get mage and warrior tank on july everyone else on romeo till hes 10% set rw macro so all dps stops on romeo and use bear to growl or what ever to keep agro but dont dps him. then all group goes to july kill her asap then all back to romeo his last 10% will drop in 3 or 4 secs and jobs all done. if you still have probs then use dps warrior as well as mage and tank to stick on july as raid gets romeo to 10%.
also get the shammy to use his totem that stops spells from casting that is a great help. you have plenty ways to interrupt the spells with your group and dont need a rogue if you dont have one

[syed]

Here it is how you do in my opinion:

- The interruptions you got are Warriors, Mage & Shammy.

- First when Juliana comes ... you all encounter her on left side of the room. As soon as she targets herself, do the interruption and down her.

- Then Romeo comes ... encounter him on right side of room (just becareful, not near the door) and down him.

- Now they both come together which is the hard part. How you do it is ... Main Tank and all others on Romeo. While Off Tank with DPS Warrior should be on Juliana. Your DPS warrior must be comfortable with Pummel and know when to use it. Bring Romeo down to 9-8% health and all move forward to Juliana. Down her as fast as possible. Then go for Romeo. By the time you are done with Juliana, your tank should have got Romeo on 2-3% by then. Remember, they both should be killed with 10 seconds of each other, or else.

Your tank on Romeo + the interrupter on Juliana should both know what they are doing and what they are supposed to do.

At one occasion, my raid was unable to interrupt a heal and Juliana healed herself. On the other hand I was tanking Romeo who was at 2%. So I had to stop attack on him and stand still with my shield blocks on and trinkets when required. If this thing goes wrong ... everything starts all over again.

Don't worry this requires some timing and a few wipes :)

[swaldman]

The above advice is valid. Another way of approaching the third phase (when both are up) is to divide your dps - we would normally put all melee against julianne, and all ranged against Romulo. This is because Romulo is slightly melee-unfriendly, in that he occasionally stabs and poisions people behind him.
In your case I think your group is slightly ranged-heavy, so you might have to adjust the numbers.

However you choose to do it, your goal is to kill them both within a few seconds of each other. If Julianne gets a heal off then it doesn't have to be a disaster - you'll need to shift more dps to the mob that got healed, and hope that your own healers don't OOM from the longer fight :-)

[Cerberus]

Stole this from some other place

Eternal Affection - Heals for 46250 to 53750, 2.5 second cast.
Blinding Passion - Deals 1500 holy damage directly, applies a Damage over Time (DoT) for 750 every second for 4 seconds, 2 sec cast. Total damage dealt by this spell is 4500.
Devotion - Self buff that increases the Holy damage dealt by the caster by 50% and casting speed by 50% for 10 sec. Dispellable.

Make sure everyone knows what the heal is called and make sure Devotion is dispelled or stolen by a mage. Devotion+blinding passion will probably kill someone so might as well have the mage on her all the time.

[Baboon]

Don't you have a rogue? We always used a rogue to kick Julienne. That's also nice to split the dps a bit so they both go down at the same time. The other dps can divide their attention a bit while the rogue keeps hitting/kicking Julienne.

[Morollan]

Don't you have a rogue? We always used a rogue to kick Julienne.

Apparently not.

We can’t sub in some rogues or so to kick Julianne, it’s really this group that has to do it.

[swaldman]

Don't you have a rogue?

No, they don't. Read the post :rolleyes:

[moopy]

Have your DPS warrior pummel and resto shaman use a rank 1 earth shock to interrupt. The shaman can focus her, and make a macro to ES1 the focus target, making this really easy. If you must, have them adopt a rota- if they can't handle it themselves. The mage could help too. Heck, you could have the warrior tank her, if needed for another. Plenty of choices.

Make sure you dispell/purge the holy damage buff too, for an easier time.

[Keefus]

3 healers?...id say drop the resto shammy and make him elem. gives him a much better chance to inturrupt julianna and still able to help heal if needed

[moopy]

*facepalm*

Given that the people concerned are somewhat undergeared (and I happen to know that they are), that advice is very bad indeed. Losing a healer to have a badly-geared single-buttock DPS is only going to make matters considerably worse. The resto shammy could spec for nature's guidance and still keep a respectable resto spec, if lack of spellhit was giving resist problems, of course. However, the makeup as described features a lot of other interrupters, so if the shammy was unable to interrupt properly, there would still be plenty of options without gimping the healing still further :)

[Aerath]

Hm.

Counterspell.
Shield Bash.
Pummel.
Earth Shock.
Silencing Shot.

Surely *some* of those should be able to keep her from healing.

[Cerberus]

Well, to kick the dead horse around a bit, I really recommend bringing a rogue..

Counterspell has a fairly long CD and silencing shot doesn't work (your hunter has no business being MM anyway, but that's another story). You want the prot warrior on Romulo for disarming so no shield bash either. It seems both daring and devotion can be removed by arcane shot however so you can put on hunter on each of them unless you have the mage spellstealing (heavy on mana if it drags out). The shaman will also have to cleanse poison from Romulos tank while shocking Julianne.

You also have shade of aran ahead and that will be harsh without a rogue.

[Epistemologist]

This has probably been said but you need to keep them within 10% of each others health or they will heal each other. If you do this correctly you shouldnt have trouble, if you have a warlock or two with you just have them throw up the dots and make sure all dps understands how to slow down the dps or switch hit.

[Morollan]

Well, to kick the dead horse around a bit, I really recommend bringing a rogue...

Which bit of "We can’t sub in some rogues or so to kick Julianne, it’s really this group that has to do it." was so hard for people in this thread to grasp?

[dwarfenhelm]

we tend to run kara with no rogues and shade doesnt cause many probs we have warriors pummel or bash and mages stopping casts.
kara is a learning curve and after a bit you can run it with no rogues no mages and no priests and still clear it easy enough.
on a side note the other month on opera we had a player dc mid fight and as he was one of only 2 healers we had to sub another player in. due to the wait mobs had respawned and i took my tank gear of and run naked out to help summon. got all my gear back on tanked romeo and then we called it a night, next day i looked at my char profile and noticed id forgot to put my chest piece back on. how i managed to tank him without a chest piece is beyond me but hey it was almost as funny as my trying to tank bane after aran, id still got all my dps gear on and thought this is wierd why am i in zerker and why cant i shield slam :). needles to say that was a wipe and a reason not to drink to much in one evening

[moopy]

how i managed to tank him without a chest piece is beyond me but hey it was almost as funny as my trying to tank bane after aran, id still got all my dps gear on and thought this is wierd why am i in zerker and why cant i shield slam :). needles to say that was a wipe and a reason not to drink to much in one evening

Been there, done that. I've seen more than one tank staying in resist gear after Hydross, cue lots of healers wondering why they were so damn hard to keep alive :)

[Morollan]

Tanked Attumen the other week with Blessing of Salvation on :)

[Cerberus]

Which bit of "We can’t sub in some rogues or so to kick Julianne, it’s really this group that has to do it." was so hard for people in this thread to grasp?

ok, let me rephrase it then:

"It will be extrememly hard and your group has next to no chance of making it past Aran."

Somehow I don't feel that's better advice.

[Morollan]

Aran doesn't require rogues. Did it on Sunday with no rogues in the raid. There are plenty of interrupts available to that group. They just need to sort out who is doing what.

[moopy]

Aran needs rogues like a fish.. No, wait..

http://sinfest.net/comikaze/comics/2008-02-06.gif

[Hagar the Horrible]

Hagar the Horrible Raid Leader: so, you all done the R & J fight? Or want me to explain it a bit?
raidmember1: nope, noone of us have
raidmember2: we quitted last time just before we got to the event
Hagar: then how do you know it's R & J?
raidmember1: cause the raid leader said the mobs where talking about it (wasn't me :p)
Hagar: /facepalm

What comes up? big bad wolf; two-shotted him, wiped on first try cause one of our priests didn't understood the "if you are turned into small girl gnome, run AWAY from the wolf"-part of the fight :p

Curator was a bit to much though - going back next week to see what we can do about that – but it’s basically a gear check, so either we are geared well enough, or we aren’t.

Wonder what event will show up then

[moopy]

Curator is also a "doing the right thing" check- it's about switching targets to the flares and getting DPS down on them quickly. People who pay attention will do a lot better there than people in better gear who don't. Watch out for people who don't DPS the last flare which comes out as he hits evocation- you'd be amazed how many go right on the curator, letting the flare eat the raid.

[EdvinMedvind]

Curator is also a "doing the right thing" check- it's about switching targets to the flares and getting DPS down on them quickly. People who pay attention will do a lot better there than people in better gear who don't. Watch out for people who don't DPS the last flare which comes out as he hits evocation- you'd be amazed how many go right on the curator, letting the flare eat the raid.
Heh it's always been our tactics to ignore have that flare and have it tanked during evo and let DPS focus on curator. Then catch up afterwards if there's more flares.

[swaldman]

Heh it's always been our tactics to ignore have that flare and have it tanked during evo and let DPS focus on curator. Then catch up afterwards if there's more flares.

That only works if you have enough dps to "catch up" with the flares later. Groups new to Karazhan may well not have. We always used to assign one person to finish off the last flare while the others made full use of the Evocate... but I imagine that everybody nuking it down would work as well :-)

[Justinledwards]

Take the simple approach to curator till you get him down. Kill flares, then if no flares, kill curator. The only time there are no flares is during evocate, so there's a bonus!

With R&J
- Resto shammy in tank group with poison cleansing totem down
- One shaman is enough to interrupt all of J's heals. I know.
- Your DPS warrior could stay on J, and pummel away to back up the shammy.

[rottentomato]

R&J doesnt intimidation from pet work as a stun? i dont remember because we burn them both splitting dps at 10%...

curator is a gear check...two hunters send pet on last flare before evocation, 33% per evocate is standard...

and shade needs a rogue? since when? just stand in safe zones... (there are four) and dps...when he magnetic pull arcane explosion...run out to the bookshelves and resume fight at safe zones...no reason this fight should EVER be hard.

[EdvinMedvind]

That only works if you have enough dps to "catch up" with the flares later. Groups new to Karazhan may well not have. We always used to assign one person to finish off the last flare while the others made full use of the Evocate... but I imagine that everybody nuking it down would work as well :-)
I guess but we weren't in full happix when we did it first. As far as I remember we had a lot of normal dungeon blues. I mean heroics where pretty hard then so it wasn't just something you did casually. On the other hand you could pot up more back then.

Anyway, now that it's all mains due to new badger loot it's 1 evo ftw :)

[Morollan]

Badger loot? New ZA boss perhaps...

:)

[Hagar the Horrible]

So, any idea where to go after Curator? Mind that this is a slightly undergeard group with most people new to raiding and kara. We plan to have a look at chess and then start on another "real" boss (most likely the "easiest" at this point). Any ideas?

[Baboon]

Which bit of "We can’t sub in some rogues or so to kick Julianne, it’s really this group that has to do it." was so hard for people in this thread to grasp?

Well sometimes you have to give the best advice, even if people don't want to hear it. Ofcourse it can be done in a milion ways without a rogue, but well, I think there are enough options mentioned anyway now. A rogue is just the easiest because he doesn't have to do much besides kicking, a little autohit and SS.

And no, I didn't notice that line about not having a rogue available when I posted the first time, that seems pretty clear here :laugh: I think it's just important to realize that you need to balance your group for Kara. You can do Maiden without a paladin and with 4 rogues, but it's probably not very easy. Or Illhoof without a warlock (or even AOE).

[Baboon]

So, any idea where to go after Curator? Mind that this is a slightly undergeard group with most people new to raiding and kara. We plan to have a look at chess and then start on another "real" boss (most likely the "easiest" at this point). Any ideas?

Besides Chess, Aran is probably still the easiest. It's more about paying attention then doing big damage. Interrupt the frost and fire so his health stays lower then his mana (otherwise he goes boom). Don't move on flame wreath, run like hell on blizzard and arcane boom. And deal with the four elementals at the end.

Prince hits like a truck in fase 2, so with a not so good tank, it's pretty hard. We did an alt run last wednesday, we killed Aran after 3 tries (but with 2 warlocks which made it a bit easier probably with the elementals). But Prince was too hard for us, at one point the tank took a 9k crushing hit.

Netherspite is a bit complicated to learn. But could be pretty easy once you get it. Nightbane requires a good tank (even more then Prince I think). Illhoof is plain nasty imo.

[Aerath]

Or Illhoof without a warlock (or even AOE).

Been there, done that, got the badges. :afro:

[rottentomato]

aran would be next easiest....and if you have a tank that is near uncrush/crit then prince as a tank and spank...


aran strategy... if you look at the floor where he stands, there are four circles

..O
O..O
..O

like that...with a square on each end...thats your safe zone is those squares. magna pull, run like hell out...anything else, stand there and take it like a champ...if blizz HAPPENS to be in your area, just circle kite and youre golden...we usually dont have to move...

chess is super easy too so grab phat loot...

netherspite CAN be easy with three decent healers (1400+) and a good couple of tanks...when he banishes, dont bother running to the wall and tank and spank him...just make sure one healer is on your group during this...

nightbane is just a nightmare without a good tank (moreso than prince)

and you need aoe/lock status for illy otherwise its a nightmare...and you have to be well geared to deal with adds.

[Bahumbaba]

Yeah as other have said, Aran would be the next one.

And ofcourse if you kill Curator you simply HAVE to do the chess event, that's fee epics. It's a good idea to kill Aran as it will help you a lot with the trash respawns.

[swaldman]

I really wouldn't bother clearing to Chess all the time; yes, it's "free epics", if you want to see it that way, but it's an awful lot of trash to clear, and with Aran up it will all respawn annoyingly quickly.

You'll be doing Chess plenty of times in the future anyway, so for now I'd concentrate on Aran. If Aran is driving you bonkers and you need a change, have a try or two on Illhoof as a break :-)

[Baboon]

I really wouldn't bother clearing to Chess all the time; yes, it's "free epics", if you want to see it that way, but it's an awful lot of trash to clear, and with Aran up it will all respawn annoyingly quickly.

You'll be doing Chess plenty of times in the future anyway, so for now I'd concentrate on Aran. If Aran is driving you bonkers and you need a change, have a try or two on Illhoof as a break :-)

I didn't even know you can do Chess without Aran. Anyway, I'd start on Aran like others say.

[SirBazturd]

netherspite CAN be easy with three decent healers (1400+) and a good couple of tanks...when he banishes, dont bother running to the wall and tank and spank him...just make sure one healer is on your group during this...

nightbane is just a nightmare without a good tank (moreso than prince)



Agree here, we tried that running to the walls crap...it is brutal. Just stay away from his face and keep dpsing him.


Agree on the nightbane part as well, he destroys all but out top 2 tanks with 2 7K Crushing blows in a row. (I think it was crushing, Grim reaper said CT). So they need to have the stamina/hps to survive.


Aran may work you over the first couple of tries until you get the timing the timing on the interrupts. But once you get that part down, he is easy. The part to watch for is that he seems to pick on people who have the lowest health, he will blast them 3 or 4 times in a row.

[swaldman]

Agree on the nightbane part as well, he destroys all but out top 2 tanks with 2 7K Crushing blows in a row. (I think it was crushing, Grim reaper said CT). So they need to have the stamina/hps to survive.


....and you need to find some tanks who don't take crushing blows (unless you're using a druid). If it's a paladin he needs better gear; if it's a warrior he needs to lrn2shieldblock. Nightbane hits really slow, so there's little excuse.

[moopy]

netherspite CAN be easy with three decent healers (1400+) and a good couple of tanks...when he banishes, dont bother running to the wall and tank and spank him...just make sure one healer is on your group during this...


Actually, netherspite is probably the easiest fight to do with two healers, if each can take a whole healer beam phase. Everyone needs to be in range of the beam healer (including the DPS beam tank), and that healer spams their fast heals on everyone. People stay out of the dragon poo. Profit.

Next phase, the other healer steps in and does the same. The only serious healing that needs to be done is while in the beam, so mana isn't a problem.

You also don't need "a good couple of tanks". I have taken the tanking beam many times as a resto shaman in blues, with no problem at all. Even one tank is plenty, as long as there's someone who can take the even phases for them.

People make a massive meal of netherspite, simply because they don't take the time and trouble to understand the fight, and the massively useful tools to hand.

[clevins]

Been there, done that, got the badges. :afro:


Hehe... once we went into Illhoof with no 'lock. Someone said they'd heard that a rogue could do the imps... so guess what I did? Yep... my rogue ran around slaughtering imps. I had flashbacks to the time I helped out a lock friend with his epic mount quest... imps EVERYWHERE!:tongue:

[Aerath]

Actually, netherspite is probably the easiest fight to do with two healers, if each can take a whole healer beam phase. Everyone needs to be in range of the beam healer (including the DPS beam tank), and that healer spams their fast heals on everyone. People stay out of the dragon poo. Profit.

Next phase, the other healer steps in and does the same. The only serious healing that needs to be done is while in the beam, so mana isn't a problem.

You also don't need "a good couple of tanks". I have taken the tanking beam many times as a resto shaman in blues, with no problem at all. Even one tank is plenty, as long as there's someone who can take the even phases for them.

People make a massive meal of netherspite, simply because they don't take the time and trouble to understand the fight, and the massively useful tools to hand.

Most of the times you're running around with a 'second person who can tank' anyway. Makes life easier on Moroes, Netherspite and a couple of trash pulls (hullo bouncers!).

We generally just switch the tanks between red n green - the less that can go wrong, the less that does go wrong.

[moopy]

Meh, the red beam can be tanked by all sorts of classes, as long as their base HP is high enough. I have done it at a hunter too, without problems. The last time that I took my hunter to Kara, I took the DPS beam one phase, and the tank beam the next. Using the beams efficiently makes the fight so easy that as you rightly imply- simplicity ensures victory.

However, I've done full Karazhan clears with only one tank quite a few times, even with guilds in blues, back before you could shackle ushers. Actually, that was the only really sticky part- the rest was fine. Pets and a boomkin in bear for moroes, and making sure that a second person was in melee range for the disco mummies on the way to 'Spitey, and it's all good.