Kara Attunement removed

[jschild]

Just saw the latest 2.4 patch notes - Kara attunement is now removed (but someone must have the Master's Key to enter).

[xDarkDrifterx]

Edit:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/test-realm-patchnotes.html

Players will no longer need the Master’s Key to enter Karazhan. The gates to Karazhan will still require the Master’s Key to be unlocked.

Players will no longer require an attunement quest to enter Hyjal.

Players will no longer require an attunement quest to enter the Black Temple.

Players who have completed the attunement quests for Black Temple and Hyjal will be granted the title of “Hand of A’dal”.

[jschild]

Since someone must have the Key, which one is required for entrance, it must still be up.

From Mmo-champion.com, not sure if is an ok site or not, so didn't link but should be from the PTR patch.

[thorleader]

so kara is a 10 man heroic now?
yay...

[TPMdm]

More like WotLK is comming soon.
yay!

[clevins]

not that soon... don't get too excited...

[Morollan]

I read it that you don't need the key to get in the front door but do still need it for the side door. So I suspect most Kara raiders will stiall want it as the back door saves a lot of time.

[Aerath]

I read it that you don't need the key to get in the front door but do still need it for the side door. So I suspect most Kara raiders will stiall want it as the back door saves a lot of time.

Need one for both doors. Just don't need a key to get in.
You could even have a filthy horde/alliance* open the door and sneak in while they're not watching.



*scratch out which doesn't apply

[moopy]

Makes sense really- would seem odd to not need attunement for SSC/TK/BT etc, but still need one for Kara..

[uberwarrior]

Im glad that this is being changed. The Kara attunement takes so long.

[thorleader]

of course, I hit 70 today (well one bar left)
and 2.4 doesnt drop for at least a lil while.
so I still have to get attuned
but at least more time for my Shadowcloth timer...

[TPMdm]

Wait, I want my title for having gotten my kara key!!!! "Champion of the Violet eye" sounds good

:wink:

[Cerberus]

I'm guessing you'll have to do the chain to get the rings (like MH), so you probably want to do the chain anyway.

[Tr1cK]

Im glad that this is being changed. The Kara attunement takes so long.

I'm guessing you're not Horde and have never done Onyxia.

Which brings me to my point of why does MC, Onyxia, BWL, and every pre-70 instance require attunements?

[corga]

blizz is stupid, making lazy people lazier. kara attunement is half doable at 68 and is good for xp. snd attunement takes 2 nights at most

[bloog]

To all people still wrestling Karazhan I want to say: Right in your face.

Maybe now you understand what horrors recruitment officers had to see through when the ssc / tk attunements dropped. Maybe now you will experience what happened when the reputation for heroic instances got lowered.

Payback time.

[Morollan]

To all people still wrestling Karazhan I want to say: Right in your face.

Maybe now you understand what horrors recruitment officers had to see through when the ssc / tk attunements dropped. Maybe now you will experience what happened when the reputation for heroic instances got lowered.

Payback time.

What the hell are you banging on about?

[moopy]

bloog,

Just wait until the attunement for BT is lifted.. It was a somewhat primitive experience filter. Some guilds are just insisting that people need to be "hand of a'dal" in 2.4 though, I guess that could work.

[Aresxx]

Personally I thought that Kara quest line was pretty easy...and if you can't be bothered to do that, you should not be in Kara.

On the other side, I guess that would be pretty nice for alts that have already "been there, done that". Said people maybe running with 9 other people in their guild just to gear up as fast as possible.

[mesonm]

Personally I thought that Kara quest line was pretty easy...and if you can't be bothered to do that, you should not be in Kara.


Not sure, but perhaps you can explain what the quest line and not being allowed in kara have anything to do with it.

IMO, the attunement to kara is not a vetting mechanism related to ability to complete the instance, or gear, or anything else....other than just being one more door to pass through.

Removing this attunement has little to do with anything kara-related.

On the other hand, if you can't kill Kael, you are not likely to be able to kill any bosses in BT (until they nerf it to bits, like I predict they will)...so, removing that attunement is nuts.

[moopy]

On the other hand, if you can't kill Kael, you are not likely to be able to kill any bosses in BT (until they nerf it to bits, like I predict they will)...so, removing that attunement is nuts.

Almost inevitable. If a guild doesn't have the co-ordination to kill Vashj and Kael, they're going to have a bit of a headache with the t6 instances. The whining will be deafening, and BT/MH will be nerfed again.

[Pongle]

Almost inevitable. If a guild doesn't have the co-ordination to kill Vashj and Kael, they're going to have a bit of a headache with the t6 instances. The whining will be deafening, and BT/MH will be nerfed again.

Because the first 4 Hyjal bosses are so hard people don't just walk in and 1 shot them or anything..

[Aerath]

Because the first 4 Hyjal bosses are so hard people don't just walk in and 1 shot them or anything..

Have to say the trash was harder than the bosses, particularly in the Horde camp. (6 necromancers and something else ? what the hell was blizzard thinking anyway...)

[frimley]

What Aerath said. The MH bosses may be straightforward but the "waves" style of trash will be testing for a lot of non-Kael/Vashj guilds I would have thought. And wiping on those waves is one of the most soul-destroying things Blizz has put in the game imo.

[Aerath]

And of course, no shadow resist, sub-par geared healers + tanks = massive wipeage cos of tank getting killed during silence or carrion swarms.

[moopy]

Because the first 4 Hyjal bosses are so hard people don't just walk in and 1 shot them or anything..

Ah, always with the valuable, interesting, insightful and useful contributions.

[Twoflower]

Ah, always with the valuable, interesting, insightful and useful contributions.

he is right though...

[moopy]

he is right though...

Nah, people who can't run away from the looky guy in the Kael fight (bah, I forget the name) tend to die from the infernals from the second boss, for example. People who lack the co-ordination and attention span to grasp something more complex than tank and spank are also the same people who run out of mana and explode in the middle of the melee on the mana draining boss. Seen it first hand- a tard is a tard is a tard. None of these bosses are rocket surgery- but nor is Kael- but you still have to do terribly complex stuff like "run away", "don't stand in that" and "don't blow those people up"- exactly the same mechanics. That's even assuming that they get past the third set of trash waves (which often gives people more trouble than the trash for the forth boss).

Hyjal is incredibly simple, but the "LOL sorry" ROFLcoptars who always die to the looky guy in the Kael fight are the same ones dying from the rains of fire in the Algazor fight, or failing to run their infernals to the infernal tank etc.

[Ash Housewares]

I'm already the only one with the key to Arc, soon I'll be the Kara doorman too

cmon blizz, gimme some custom titles for this eh?

[Twoflower]

I'm already the only one with the key to Arc, soon I'll be the Kara doorman too

cmon blizz, gimme some custom titles for this eh?

ash, the key master :)

actualy that would be a cool title. if you have all the keys to all instances starting from gnomer and going up to karazhan.

[Ash Housewares]

I'm hoping for "Master of Unlocking" to appeal to my Resident Evil nostalgia

[moopy]

ash, the key master :)

actualy that would be a cool title. if you have all the keys to all instances starting from gnomer and going up to karazhan.

So I am not the only one running around the endgame still carrying the workshop key and the scarlet key then? :)

[Twoflower]

So I am not the only one running around the endgame still carrying the workshop key and the scarlet key then? :)

nope :D

i have to admitt, i am missing the scholomance key. but i have all the others. even the one to the searing gorge door.

hmm, what would you need for the keymaster title ?

from the top of my head :

workshp key
scarlet key
zul farrak hammer
maraudon szepter
scholo key
strat key
dire maul key
shadowlab key
key to the arcatraz
key to the shattered halls
karazhan key
all heroic keys

edit : ( thanks frimley )
ubrs key
onyxia key

anything else ?

[moopy]

Gasp! Get yourself to PL, start the scholo key chain, you slacker :-)

(I am not sure that you've missed much from your list, actually)

[Ash Housewares]

its also nice to have an extra key to Corki's cage

[Twoflower]

i was just reading up on the scholo key, looks like i ll do taht tonight. looks like a piece of cake. wonder why i didnt do it at lvl 60.

[moopy]

For me, it was the fact that Un Goro was a bit out of the way, if I was doing it on an Alliance toon, I think. Not a huge amount of effort, but there's usually something more interesting to do..

[Ash Housewares]

oh right, the quest where you pay them gold instead of them paying you

screw dat

[frimley]

You missed everyone's favourite - UBRS key! And Ony's Lair ...

[Twoflower]

damn, right

the ubrs key...

how could i forget that. this will be harder to solo :)

[Tort]

damn, right

the ubrs key...

how could i forget that. this will be harder to solo :)

I soloed up until UBRS on my hunter, and then just needed 2 friends for that part. Everything afterwards is easily soloed as well, especially as an uber mage like yourself.

[mesonm]

So I am not the only one running around the endgame still carrying the workshop key and the scarlet key then? :)

My drood has everything from SM through SSC....Pathetic, but he does...He spent what then felt like YEARS in BWL, Naxx and AQ....Fun stuff.

[moopy]

Ohhh the UBRS key! Doh!

Flowers, I finished off the UBRS key at lv 60 in a duo- I am pretty sure you could solo it with a raid-geared toon with a little ingenuity :-)

[Morollan]

Ohhh the UBRS key! Doh!

Flowers, I finished off the UBRS key at lv 60 in a duo- I am pretty sure you could solo it with a raid-geared toon with a little ingenuity :-)

UBRS key is easily soloable at 70 with any stealth-capable character. With a mage you can probably semi-stealth it by virtue of having a low agro radius (due to level difference) and judicious use of Invisibility Slow Fall may come in handy for a few shortcuts too.

[moopy]

Take a few invisibility pots with you too, and it's all good. However, with decent raid gear, you can probably just FN and kill most things (if you have good PvP gear, they'll be hard pressed to kill you, alternatively).

[mesonm]

Ohhh the UBRS key! Doh!

Flowers, I finished off the UBRS key at lv 60 in a duo- I am pretty sure you could solo it with a raid-geared toon with a little ingenuity :-)

My drood was able to stealth it.....

[Twoflower]

tbh i dont think i will do this ^^ too much work for a silly ubrs key.

on the other hand, with more and more people leaving the game, will there ever be a time when there are entire servers whibout ubrs keys ? ^^

[mesonm]

on the other hand, with more and more people leaving the game, will there ever be a time when there are entire servers whibout ubrs keys ? ^^

Certainly, there is a high percentage of Blood Elves and Draenai that have never seen the inside of LBRS or UBRS.

[RWGreen]

I'm pretty sure that the LBRS gems to complete the seal of ascension are a 100% drop rate now. I've been in there a bunch of times recently to get guild members a worg pup (a whimsical raiding "requirement" that I installed) and I've seen the gems drop at least 12 times in a row.

Soloable as a prot warrior, a druid, or a rogue I would think. Not sure about other classes.

[Aerath]

tbh i dont think i will do this ^^ too much work for a silly ubrs key.

on the other hand, with more and more people leaving the game, will there ever be a time when there are entire servers whibout ubrs keys ? ^^

I think the gems have a 100% drop rate now though.

[Xmcdaniel]

Im glad that this is being changed. The Kara attunement takes so long.

It takes like an hour and a half tops if you do it in one swing.

[Xmcdaniel]

On the other hand, if you can't kill Kael, you are not likely to be able to kill any bosses in BT (until they nerf it to bits, like I predict they will)...so, removing that attunement is nuts.

From what I hear from some of my counterparts in BT and MH, most of the bosses are much, much easier than Kael or Vashj. A good example is the loot pinata they call Rage Winterchill.

[rgirty]

It takes like an hour and a half tops if you do it in one swing.

You can really do all the quests, get the key pieces from SL, arc, SV then run old hills + black morass while doing the proper turn ins in between?

You can do that in 1.5 hours?

I think it might be fairly difficult just to run old hills +bm in 1.5 hours, much less all of SL then SV+arc.

I'm glad its gone, it isn't necessary any longer.

[Xmcdaniel]

You can really do all the quests, get the key pieces from SL, arc, SV then run old hills + black morass while doing the proper turn ins in between?

You can do that in 1.5 hours?

I think it might be fairly difficult just to run old hills +bm in 1.5 hours, much less all of SL then SV+arc.

I'm glad its gone, it isn't necessary any longer.

OHB and BM take like 30 min each. SV and Arc, if I remember correctly, are near the beginning of each instance. I did forget about Slabs, that does take a little bit of time. I guess what I was trying to get across is the fact that getting your key for Kara is insanely easy. IDK why they feel the need to nerf this game to hell and back when it was already fairly easy as is.

[Zulran]

I got no problem with this - it's hell trying to get Normal Instance runs for these fragments anyway. I helped a guildie who had been trying to get keyed for 2 weeks.

BTW: Kara Attunement is, in no way, a rite of passage or a slight safeguard against n00bs. Until you're Exalted with Violet Eye (or have a character that is) you most likely don't know all the bosses, or maybe even half of them, and are a liability.

[mesonm]

IDK why they feel the need to nerf this game to hell and back when it was already fairly easy as is.

And I'm in the camp that says that says....I do not care about kara attunements...That was so long ago for me that attunement was merely a nuisance...Why NOT remove it....What purpose does it serve other than to just be a silly obstacle?

BT attunement is alot different....IMO.

[corga]

damn you shadow priests and your face melting!!! GAH

[Twoflower]

I think the gems have a 100% drop rate now though.

cooool.

i ll get the ring then :)

edit : forgot the brd key btw in my key list...

[Justinledwards]

I did this about 2-3 months ago on my hunter (solo), I don't think the gems are 100% drop yet. However when you figure out the route, it's fairly quick to reset and repeat.

Pity there isn't a naxx key. I think I have them all expect maradon key. I've done maradon exactly once on three characters past the level to do maradon.

[teck21]

I too feel that the Kara attunement isn't too demanding.

If it's your first 70 and you're not in a good decently geared guild and have to do it all more or less by yourself, the feeling of accomplishment isn't too bad either. Yes, alot of these people still exist.

All up I also don't see why it should be removed.

However, as other people have said already, the patch is due out soon and the xpac not really that far off either, it seems that Blizz wants to give more people the opportunity to enter Kara at least.

Already I can see how this 'helps' my guild. There are several casual newbies who have only recently dinged 70, and can't come with us to Kara since they're not attuned. SO this will help them a fair bit.

However, they don't seem to know how to play since they never pug, and despite my very open un undisguised opposition to it, some of my other guildies are very happy to run them through everything for gear, attunement and all that (although we're a casual guild and most of the time when we have enough people on, we'll be in kara or za leaving not so much time to run them anything).

So these people are coming to Kara not knowing how to play their class or understanding anything about group coordination because they never had to learn.

We have a warrior who doesn't know how to stance dance out of Nightbane's fear, had to ask me how to check whther he'd been fearwarded. Someone who we ran to get the 3rd fragment, and headed staright to BM, finsihed it, then he realized he didn't hand in the fragment to get the quest to talk to medivh. It's really very exasperating sometimes.

Attunement removal: good and bad.

[Twoflower]

Take a few invisibility pots with you too, and it's all good. However, with decent raid gear, you can probably just FN and kill most things (if you have good PvP gear, they'll be hard pressed to kill you, alternatively).

well, i didnt wanna buy any pots. and i dont do pvp, therefor no pvp gear :)

but i have blink and the 20 sec invisibility. This got me trough all the spots. The only place where i had to use invis and run was the spiders part. all the other places, i could just bllink trough.

the bosses were what scared me at first, but it seems that they dont have that many HP after all. i only died once, on war master voone, when he pinned me into a corner.

Actualy i think that a mage isnt realy the best class to do this ^^ we can do some damage, yes, but we are very fragile. there is one 6 mobs pull just before the endboss, but that is about the only place i used limited aoe. only wearing cloth on the other hand is very hard ^^ voone just beat me to death, and didnt let me cast alot.

but apart from that it all went smooth. Scholo key took 45 minutes, the entire run trough LBRS ( not killing any trash except clearing up some room for the boss fights ) and to emberstrife and back took me almost 2 hours.

I didnt have so much fun for quite a while :) soloing lbrs on a squishy was thrilling ^^

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/3011/wowscrnshot030508041437qh9.jpg

[mesonm]

So these people are coming to Kara not knowing how to play their class or understanding anything about group coordination because they never had to learn.


Agreed on the point. Attunement won't help this get better, though.

They just need to instance and raid more.

[clevins]

Attunement removal: good and bad.

QFT. I just did this on my spriest who doesn't need it for gear (tailor) and I know the instance inside and out. In those cases it would be nice to avoid having to do it. But what it has done is force everyone to run a couple of instances prior to Kara. I can easily see new 70s dinging and wanting to go to Kara right away. As always, the group needs to deal with that.

[moopy]

I didnt have so much fun for quite a while :) soloing lbrs on a squishy was thrilling ^^


*cheer*

Hooray for mad people :)

[YamahaGuy]

Thats just dumb. imo though.

I mean, if you cant do a handfull of instances, even in a couple days then shouldn't go to kara.

That and, in doing those instances, you get chances at blues and upgrades for kara.

*DING* im 70 wearing quest greens 5 levels lower than me, im going kara!!!!

I guess I dont *truly* care, because I hate kara anyway.

Enjoy it. =)

[mesonm]

Thats just dumb. imo though.
I mean, if you cant do a handfull of instances, even in a couple days then shouldn't go to kara.
That and, in doing those instances, you get chances at blues and upgrades for kara.
*DING* im 70 wearing quest greens 5 levels lower than me, im going kara!!!!
I guess I dont *truly* care, because I hate kara anyway.
Enjoy it. =)

There is a difference, IMO, between "can't", and whether doing so makes you any more qualified than you were before....

If your argument was "change the requirements to where you'd get a bit better gear, in order to be prepared for what lay ahead", then I'd agree with you.

But merely leaving the attunement alone and thus leaving it to be no more than a time spending event that has NO bearing on your later success or failure is meaningless....in my opinion.

I'm surprised that folks are more miffed by this than by the BT/Hyjal attunements that are being removed.....IMO, those are MUCH more related to the potential success or failure of the Hyjal and BT raids.

[Cattleya]

I'm surprised that folks are more miffed by this than by the BT/Hyjal attunements that are being removed.....IMO, those are MUCH more related to the potential success or failure of the Hyjal and BT raids.

I think that people are hoping that Hyjal and BT guilds are smart enough to check out the people they take with them. Your average "we have 8 70 and as soon as we have 10 we are hitting Kara" guilds don't have those brains. (I'm on a server of Kara or Kara hopeful guilds.)

With the current attument, someone either has to get off their butt and get the runs put together, or get pulled though by a guild. If they are coasted along, it's the guilds choice and their problem if the person never learned to group play.

I took me several attempts to get a group together that could finish SL. I grabbed my friends and we 3-maned the first part of Arc to get that fragment. I had to pug BM. I really did enjoy the sense of accomplishment from it.

I suppose it's a bit annoying to have done that work knowing that others won't have to. (I have one ex-guildie who turned down my offer to run SL for his fragment but spent the whole time I was in there bugging me to make the group wait and sub him in when we got to the fragment.) However, most people like that find a guild who pulls them through attunement and Kara itself, so it doesn't really matter anyhow.

The key is still useful, and the people who really care about their character and don't just let other people drag them through will still likely pick it up. I have my Shattered Halls and Arcatraz keys, despite the fact that I normally run around with a rogue with maxed lock picking.


So basically this is what removing the Kara attument gives us:
(1) Lazy people no longer have to bug their guild to pull them through attunement before the guild pulls them through Kara. This is good for guilds who are desperate for a certain class and don't care about letting someone coast a bit to do it.
(2) People with alts who already know the drill can skip doing stuff they've done many times before.
(3) People who take the time and effort to get the key can proudly say. "I'll get the door."
(4) Guilds who aren't in a position to pull people through Kara will have to do a bit of work to make sure their members are really ready to set foot into Kara. (But they should be doing this anyhow given the number of people who use guilds to get their key and leave for other guilds.)
(5) PUG Karas are going to be the most frightening thing ever. Grab some popcorn and enjoy the show.

Overall, I suppose the removal of attunement is a positive. I will still do it on any of my characters that hit 70, though. I like having lots of keys. Maybe it will keep the greenies busy in Kara so they stay out of my heroics. :grin:

[mesonm]

ing the Kara attument gives us:
(1) Lazy people no longer have to bug their guild to pull them through attunement before the guild pulls them through Kara. This is good for guilds who are desperate for a certain class and don't care about letting someone coast a bit to do it.
(2) People with alts who already know the drill can skip doing stuff they've done many times before.
(3) People who take the time and effort to get the key can proudly say. "I'll get the door."
(4) Guilds who aren't in a position to pull people through Kara will have to do a bit of work to make sure their members are really ready to set foot into Kara. (But they should be doing this anyhow given the number of people who use guilds to get their key and leave for other guilds.)
(5) PUG Karas are going to be the most frightening thing ever. Grab some popcorn and enjoy the show.

Overall, I suppose the removal of attunement is a positive. I will still do it on any of my characters that hit 70, though. I like having lots of keys. Maybe it will keep the greenies busy in Kara so they stay out of my heroics. :grin:


I contend that all of those things take place, even WITH attunement....so, all that really changes is that people get to kara a day earlier.

If you have not yet been on a kara pug run, you really need to try it...

It is QUITE good entertainment.

[frimley]

If you have not yet been on a kara pug run, you really need to try it...

It is QUITE good entertainment.

Lol mesonm - you have one sick sense of entertainment! :laugh:

[moopy]

Yay, mesonm, gave me another excuse to post this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnMRynchdTY

[mesonm]

Lol mesonm - you have one sick sense of entertainment! :laugh:

Well...Just keep in mind that as an SSC-equipped healing pally, I die nearly last in a wipe....and I can DI once every so often to minimize the repair bills...

fun stuff!

(I'm watching Moopy's video now...)

[HandofDread]

Just saw the latest 2.4 patch notes - Kara attunement is now removed (but someone must have the Master's Key to enter).

One of the positive aspects of attunement in my view is that it helps ensure that players are well geared and experienced enough to enter an instance. If you can hit 70 and immediately enter into the most or one of the most difficult instances in the game your a liability to those that you are grouped with. The quest chain for the Masters Key isn't overly difficult in my opinion and by forcing you to enter 4 level 70 instances gives the player a chance to gear up.

There is a point to attunement and it is an effective tool, however overly complicated attunement and/or attunement for too many instances is just as bad as no attunement process.

All that being said I have mixed feelings about the removal of the Kara attunement process... this coming from a player who has currently acquired the First key fragment.

[Twoflower]

i think most people will still make the attunement quest to b e able to start the questchain for the kara rings that everyone likes so much :)

and i realy think blizz should remove the old instance's attunement aswell.

[mesonm]

I think all of this will be moot, 24 hours after WoTLK comes out. Kara what?

BT? Is that a shaving cream?

[Twoflower]

I think all of this will be moot, 24 hours after WoTLK comes out. Kara what?

BT? Is that a shaving cream?

yeah wotlk will be moot aswell once they shut down the game and take all the servers offline. In fact, in a few billion years the entire universe will collaps inwards and all life will cease to exist.

[rgirty]

I firmly believed that wotlk would be out around september...I spoke to someone over the weekend and now I think we're looking at a christmas release.

[jschild]

I always assumed winter - they gave no earlier indication and better to release around there to get new subscribers anyway.

[moopy]

i think most people will still make the attunement quest to b e able to start the questchain for the kara rings that everyone likes so much :)


/doom, flowers. Don't get me started on how terrible the healer ones are. I swapped mine for a physical DPS ring, and finally the spelldamage one- which seems to be the best of the bunch.

I guess some folks will do the BT chain for the same reason- to get the nice scale rep rings, especially since scale rep gain is to be increased in 2.4. In any case, much less of a letdown than the Ashtongue Deathsworn exalted trinkets, to which I say "PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT!".

[Twoflower]

ashtongue trinkets are silly ( well, the mage one ). The hyjal ring is the best in the game o far ( Well, the mage one ). The karazhan ring will be the first ring i go for once my priest hits 70, it is well balanced.

not so much for shamans and paladins, i assume. but for priests it is nice.