Karazhan group composition

[korl]

I'm having a discussion with a guildie about kara group composition. We all more or less beginners in kara and the raids tend to wipe more than I think they should. Sometimes we just cannot continue to the next boss, its that bad. The best we did was up to Curator, where we got stuck.

We all have leveling blues, and some have several epics (pve and some pvp). So, kara can upgrade us nicely,

I believe the group should be balanced, with all classes, and a maximum of 2 of the same class. I am asking, what do you guys with experience think?

One raid we had 4 hunters, no mage and no warlocks, and it was bad. Then 3-4 pallys, then 3 rogues and so on. Of course we always have 2 tanks and 2 healers. But I think the imbalance of our raid groups is the cause of our difficulty in kara.

What do you guys think?

[mesonm]

At least 2 AOE, IMO....A lock is definitely needed for ilhoof....different class mixes are sometimes needed for different bosses, depending on how gear and experience you have.

[dwarfenhelm]

group make up actually means very little in kara its all down to how your group works together.
the basic "ideal group" for progression would be
tank x2
holy pala
holy priest
resto druid/shaman
hunter x1
mage x 1
lock x 1
shadow priest x1
melee dps x1

with this sort of make up pretty much every boss in kara is easy to do once you learn the fight. if you have a feral tank then you can swap about much easier as past moroes you dont really need 2 tanks and feral; goes kitty until it needs to off tank again.
weve run kara with 4 hunters b4 now in one night, weve had the guild almost in tears b4 now as no mages where on line and still we run and cleared prince aran and bane with a lack of mage and weve done prince with 2 dps warriors feral druid and a rogue as well. once you learn the fight its just down to players doing the right thing at the right time.
for progression you will prob be best of with 3 healers but once you get to grips with the place you can easy clear it all with just 2 healers and no priest shackle at all

[rottentomato]

typical make up when i go,

warrior tank
pally tank
holy priest
holy pally or holy priest
resto shammy
mage
lock
hunter
shadow priest
misc dps rogue/warrior/hunter/etc


typically works quite well...

[Aerath]

2 People Who Can Tank Without Being 1-2 Shotted
2-3 Healers Who Can Keep Said Tanks Up (probably 3 healers in your case)
DPS

It honestly doesn't make too huge a difference what you bring. While I will readily admit that bringing 3-4 classes instead of 4 hunters will help you a lot, you could even do it with those 4 hunters for the most part. Some classes will make your life easier at a few bosses though - A priest (or two) will be handy with shackles. A warlock might come in handy clearing to Maiden or at Shade of Aran.

Most of what's plagueing you at the moment is purely the lack of experience and people running around in subpar gear.

[Twoflower]

2 People Who Can Tank Without Being 1-2 Shotted
2-3 Healers Who Can Keep Said Tanks Up (probably 3 healers in your case)
DPS

It honestly doesn't make too huge a difference what you bring. While I will readily admit that bringing 3-4 classes instead of 4 hunters will help you a lot, you could even do it with those 4 hunters for the most part. Some classes will make your life easier at a few bosses though - A priest (or two) will be handy with shackles. A warlock might come in handy clearing to Maiden or at Shade of Aran.

Most of what's plagueing you at the moment is purely the lack of experience and people running around in subpar gear.

QFT. realy nothing to add here.

[Keefus]

QFT. realy nothing to add here.

i'd have to agree. It seems to me if most of your raid is in leveling blues then thats what is hurting you. you may be able to get away with the dps that way but your tanks and healers need to be in a majority of heroic gear or you are going to have trouble.

[Twoflower]

i think the lack of experience part is even worse than the gear part. you just need to learn the instance. when you have it on farm and do twink runs you will see how much easier it goes.

for now, just get experience, try curator as often as you can, you will see that it gets easier and easier.

[korl]

Ok, Thank you for the replies.

[clevins]

2 People Who Can Tank Without Being 1-2 Shotted
2-3 Healers Who Can Keep Said Tanks Up (probably 3 healers in your case)
DPS

It honestly doesn't make too huge a difference what you bring. .

Not QFT at all. This is, of course, true for people who are geared and know the fights, but not for a group that's newish. I'm tired of people who can clear Kara in 3 hours acting like it was never hard for them. Maybe a few of you cleared it the first time in, but I'm betting most of us took some time. Paying attention to balance can make a difference for people just entering Kara even though it's not important for a raid that has it on farm.

To the OP - Dwarfenhelm's list is good, but let me generalize a bit...

I'd take more ranged dps than melee as a general guideline. Mages, priests and hunters all have useful CC. Figure out why you're dying and, if it's a lack of healing or that losing a healer leaves you with 1 and that person can't heal the raid for long enough, take 3 healers. If it's dps, take 2 healers.

Make sure people have reasonable gear (generally level 68-70 quest blues or normal instance blues) and have gemmed/enchanted the gear so that they're kitted out as well as they can be.

They should use cookie-cutter specs generally... this isn't the time for the rogue who has a weird pvp/pve hybrid etc. Classes all have specs that are known to be good for raiding, sometimes they have multiple such specs... people should adopt those specs. If they resist, well... if everyone was so good you'd be clearing it right? The rogue who insists that his Shadowstep build will be fine? Wrong... leave him out. Same for other classes.

Past group makeup and gear is knowing the fights and knowing how to deal with longer fights. For example, soloing and five mans probably haven't prepared your mana users for longer fights so they need to learn to pot early so the cooldown is available if they need it late in the fight. Priests should use their Shadowfiend early so the cooldown is up again if needed, etc. Of course, people should come with health and mana pots, etc and come fully repaired.

[Mordwin]

At least 2 AOE, IMO....A lock is definitely needed for ilhoof....different class mixes are sometimes needed for different bosses, depending on how gear and experience you have.

Maybe with lower geared people yes... but having done it without either a 'lock or a mage... it's not essential.

As for Kara... provided you can manage 2 tank types and 3 healers (priests especially useful for shackle)...

And curator? we found it best to all bunch up in a group a bit behind the tank so there was less chasing the flares... this does put more stress on the healers though so a bit of arcane resist can help.

[Aerath]

Not QFT at all. This is, of course, true for people who are geared and know the fights, but not for a group that's newish. I'm tired of people who can clear Kara in 3 hours acting like it was never hard for them. Maybe a few of you cleared it the first time in, but I'm betting most of us took some time. Paying attention to balance can make a difference for people just entering Kara even though it's not important for a raid that has it on farm.

Even when learning the place, we rarely had a priest in our group. I can't remember ever having a mage.

I've done Illhoof without any AoE. I've done Moroes without shackles. I've done pretty much all of Karazhan in the oddest of group compositions.

It is not what people should focus on. Every time this is brought up, they make it seem as though you can't do [Boss] without [Class]. That's bovine excreta. The only possible exception I'm willing to make is for Maiden, where you'd really want a Paladin or Priest as cleanser. Even there you can do it in other ways.

What people should focus on is learning the place, not running around in greenies and people not acting like fools. Group composition is a bonus, no more no less.

[clevins]

Yes you CAN do Kara with odd group compositions. My rogue has been the imp killer on Illhoof when we didn't have a lock, not exactly the optimal thing. But it's a heck of a lot easier when you're a raid who is geared at the level of Kara (mostly blues and some epics) with certain combos.

No one said that you can't do Boss X with Group Y. I've fought Prince and had infernal placement that absolutely precluded melee dps... I'd have died in seconds if I got anywhere behind and to the side of Prince. In that particular fight, we won because of the ranged. Even in Prince fights when infernals weren't an issue, the fight is prolonged with lots of melee dps since they have to run out and in whenever they're enfeebled. Not an issue for an epicced group, but lingering in phase 3 too long may well wipe a group that's just downing him. Similarly, Moroes is cake if you can shackle 2 adds and chaintrap another because you have 2 priests and a hunter. Required? Nope... but much easier for sure.

What people should focus on is learning the place, not running around in greenies and people not acting like fools. Group composition is a bonus, no more no less.

is just presumptuous and arrogant. The OP came here looking for some advice, not to watch you stroke yourself. Do that in private mkay?

[Twoflower]

easier maybe. better ? no.

when we learned karazhan, we took it a bit to the extreme. no tank for aran. 3 priests for moroes. 2 locks for illhoof. we spent more time switching people in and out of the raid than actualy fighting mobs. that lead to 2 days of karazhan raiding till we had the place cleared with a group taht should have made it trough there in 5 hours.

sure, in extreme cases and when you get realy frustrated, it may help to shoot for a "optimal group setup" once in a while. But half of the fun and 99% of the learning you can have in there is to just take who you have and manage somehow with the people at hand.

korl asked us "what do you think". Nothing arrogant in pointing out that we think you should spend your time learning the encounters and not trying to make the optimal group.

that said, the optimal group for me would be :

10 people who know the instance and their class. 1 tank, 1 dps specced offtank, 2 healers, rest DPS.

[clevins]

But it does strike me as arrogant to assume that people who try a more optimal grouping are fools running around in greens (read the quote)

And when you're first starting in there, easier IS better. If your goal is to kill the boss, a grouping that's more likely to do that is, by definition, better. Having a group composition that's more likely to kill a boss doesn't preclude people from learning the encounter either. After all, you don't just hit Kara once, you go back over and over... you'll learn the encounters quite well before you're done. But it can be demotivating to continually wipe on a boss - downing him proves that YOUR group can do it... then you can learn how different mixes of your people can do it.

There are multiple ways to succeed in Kara, but I think it's better to actually have some success than to keep wiping over and over because you refuse to change the group. That said, if you have 10 people who can credibly hit Kara it's far better to go than not go because you don't have some ideal group.

[rottentomato]

even epiced out groups like the one i go in can do it WITHOUT ideal party setup, but does it make things easier if you go ideal? of course.

the op didnt ask who CAN do kara, he asked what HE should be bringing as an inexperienced kara raider...

just help him out and move on, dont dwell on your epeen

[Aerath]

just help him out and move on, dont dwell on your epeen

There was no epeen-ing involved. Even when wiping in Karazhan and wondering if we'd get past Curator, we didn't have optimal groups. It simply does not matter nearly as much as gear (which wasn't an assumption they were not geared properly), group skill and individual skill.

If anything, running a 'sub-par' group lets you get more inventive with the people you do have. No priests, but 2 hunters and 2 rogues ? Chain trap the two melee mobs and stunlock a clothy while tanking one.
I'll take a good hunter over a bad priest anyday - far more chance of the priest not shackling in time because he was busy healing and getting one-shotted because he was standing next to the shackle.

[theseus]

Gear and skill is far more important than class balance is Karzhan. Yes Priests are a bonus for Moroes, but like Aerath all the priests in the world don't help unless you have an OT that can get 2nd aggro, or a MT in blues.

Class balance does help, but slows you down and people tend to get annoyed. I would suggest making sure people gear up and learn how to play before worried to much about the optimal classes.

[TPMdm]

But it does strike me as arrogant to assume that people who try a more optimal grouping are fools running around in greens (read the quote)
(snip)

You mean this quote?
What people should focus on is learning the place, not running around in greenies and people not acting like fools. Group composition is a bonus, no more no less.

He did not even imply that asking for optimal group composition = fools in greens. He said learning the encounters > group composition. The implication is that greens won't cut it (and they won't) and acting like fools won't cut it (and they won't). Saying that somebody should have appropriate gear is not self stroking neither is telling people to pay attention and stay focused. Indeed Aerath's answer was not what the OP was asking for but it is sound advice which goes pretty much for most of the game.

That being said there was perfectly valid yet vague advice (tanks geared enough not to get 2-3 shotted and enough healers to keep them alive the rest dps) to fairly specifc class advice (warlocks for illhoof, aoe, priest shackle for moroes etc.)

[clevins]

But you (the 3-4 posts above this one) are all stating things that are, I think, obvious. Yes, of COURSE you'd rather have a good X vs a bad Y (tank, healer, dps). Yes, of course you'd rather people who are better geared than people in all greens. Those kind of fall into the 'no s#!' category for me i guess. But remember that Kara is the start of serious gearing - aside from crafting, heroics, rep and the occasional world drop this is the first place people will see 70 epics. Secondly, you just don't need to be half in epics to wander in here. A rogue on well chose blues will do just fine.

The point isn't the OPTIMAL group (a phrase you all seem hung up on), it's whether some groups work better than others for instance appropriate people (those who don't outgear it and know the fights inside and out). And the answer is, unequivocally, yes. Given players of equal skill and similar gearing level certain compositions will let you progress further, faster. It doesn't have to be hard and fast 'only these classes' at all... but stacking ranged dps vs melee, taking 2 priests if you can, etc are all going to help people who are at the gear/experience level of the instance.

As I said above you're better off going in with a group that's not as well composed vs not going in at all, but the OP was asking if group comp makes a difference... and it does.

[korl]

One problem is - I think - that we have a priest healer geared in gladiator purples, and she thinks she's really hot. I believe (a) pvp gear is not optimal for raids (better than greens, maybe, but lacks in mp5 and spell power), and (b) skill is also important besides gear. She seem to need both if you know what i mean. At maiden, tank died 3 times and she had full mana and health - not for long... She does not take any suggestions and everybody thinks she is really good at healing.

I also think group composition *is* important when breaking into kara, as well as learning the fights. The guild I run with my hunter is really casual therefore people are mellow about it - which i dont like. I also run with my rogue, and did a couple of pug-s: got to do moroes once, and second, we cleared until opera, and planned to continue next week. Granted, we had a full epicced mage around, but most others didnt have more than 1-2 epic items on, and leveling blues.

I also believe being mellow about clearing Kara does not cut it, and maybe thats another point to make. Yes, I could look around, but finding a spot in a serious raiding guild is no easy matter. I have the time and the motivation, but getting on a guild that does not keep you on the sidelines is really a lottery ticket.

Than you all for the discussion.

[Aerath]

He asked if the bad group compositions would be the reason for wiping in Karazhan.

The answer is no. (I'd wager inexperience, lack of gear/skill are far more likely to be the reason for wiping, with experience being the most likely and important culprit.)

Would he have asked if a solid group composition will make things easier, the answer would've been yes.

I answered the question as it was asked, not as it might be interpreted by people.

[teck21]

I agree with those who have said that the knowledge of fight and skill in class are much more important than the class makeup, unless the group is 2 tanks, 3 healers and 5 rogues, but that's not likely to happen.

As the OP has pointed out, his or her group is being killed by people not doing what they supposed to do. Kara is sufficiently forgiving for people to overcome the lack of the ideal group make up if people learn what they're supposed to do, and do it.

If one can get 10 people organized for Kara chances are that it will be sufficiently balanced to be able to get through most fights without having to go out of one's way to get a single member of any particular class.

If people refuse to learn from wiping at one encounter repeatedly, the ideal composition does no good. Or if people show up at Nightbane simply waiting to be told what to do.

OP: 'She does not take any suggestions and everybody thinks she is really good at healing.', 'people are mellow about it'

You have pointed out why your guild isn't progressing. People who don't nother learning fights are either not interested or lazy, and your guild appears to be in the not interested category, which also leads to them being, umm, lazy, so unless they get interested, guess you won't be heading anywhere with them for a while, whatever your group composition.

[dwarfenhelm]

part of the problem with casual guilds is that a lot of members start taking places like kara casually. ive found a lot of people dont read up tactics or watch vids of a fight, they have found a shot rotation that they are happy with ie. spam fire ball or steady shot without thinking why they are just hitting one button. then on a fight that you have told the guild many a time needs top dps you notice that only 3 maybe 4 members might have a pot or food buff.
as well as a good group make up a guild learning kara also is mainly learning to raid and get the best out of the class they play.
in my old guild after keep wiping all the time the officers got together and set up a list of raid must haves. we then checked every player to make sure they carried flasks/elixirs 5 health/mana pots, food buffs and class items (holy candles, soul stones) we swapped 2 players the first week for coming to a raid with no pots, the next night every one had the pots then a week later the players who didnt know about shot rotation started to get better and maybe 3 weeks after us doing this we had gone from laying at curators feet to jumping around the room dancing after prince died.
this goes to show the guild that maybe in a 5 man dungeon 1 person with a half decent tank can clear any dungeon, but in kara you all need to pull together. all the members used to talk about how people had messed up and more important how we as a guild could fix it and win in the end.
group makeup is important, gear is important and skill is important but it all counts for nothing if the guild isnt working together

[Morollan]

One problem is - I think - that we have a priest healer geared in gladiator purples, and she thinks she's really hot. I believe (a) pvp gear is not optimal for raids (better than greens, maybe, but lacks in mp5 and spell power), and (b) skill is also important besides gear. She seem to need both if you know what i mean. At maiden, tank died 3 times and she had full mana and health - not for long... She does not take any suggestions and everybody thinks she is really good at healing.

After the second wipe at Maiden the Raid Leader should be asking why the MT is dead but the healer's mana bar hasn't moved. Then tell the priest that she can't come on further raids until she's replaced some of her pvp epics with badge rewards.

[moopy]

I don't think it's your composition, unless you include "taking someone who sucks in a healing role" :-)

One problem is - I think - that we have a priest healer geared in gladiator purples, and she thinks she's really hot. I believe (a) pvp gear is not optimal for raids (better than greens, maybe, but lacks in mp5 and spell power), and (b) skill is also important besides gear. She seem to need both if you know what i mean.


Well, if she had a clue about PvE healing, she'd know that PvP healing gear for priests is less useful than lv 115 blues for the task. Druids can get away with it somewhat, priests less so. Arena gear is poo for PvE healing, compared to stuff designed for the task, and vice versa.


At maiden, tank died 3 times and she had full mana and health - not for long... She does not take any suggestions and everybody thinks she is really good at healing.


Well, that kinda implies that she was doing sweet FA. A healer is one who heals, not one who wears healing gear. Once you've either re-educated or replaced this lump, if you're still having trouble- try having o9ne of the healers (the one with highest HP, probably) stand just inside the consecration, so they get woken up from the stun, and can keep the tank alive. This is much simpler and less hit and miss than blessing of sacrifice, rolling HoTs etc. The healer concerned needs to keep an eye on their own health too, but this is a really easy job.

I've had some really bad experiences with PvP ROFLcoptars trying to come to raids, people who can't adjust at all to the change of pace. It's not rare- some people just don't have the attention span for PvE.

Often it's been the case that they're along because they are LOLm8s of one of the less bright members of the raid, who can't see further than "haelz in arenas=Win". Sure, there are some smart PvP-focussed players who can do great things in raids with the right gear- but there's a huge constituent of ADHD PvP nuts with huge egos out there. Also, even a smart player will need a bedding in period to adjust to PvE on any real scale, if they've been more or less exclusively PvP for a while. Even if they've been doing heroics, that's not really so useful, as a lot of the heroics have been so nerfed now that clothies don't get one-shotted, so attention to detail and self-control are strictly optional.

[Beruen]

One problem is - I think - that we have a priest healer geared in gladiator purples, and she thinks she's really hot. I believe (a) pvp gear is not optimal for raids (better than greens, maybe, but lacks in mp5 and spell power), and (b) skill is also important besides gear. She seem to need both if you know what i mean. At maiden, tank died 3 times and she had full mana and health - not for long... She does not take any suggestions and everybody thinks she is really good at healing.

I'll agree with you on her needing both. My priest is the most popular healer in the guild for 5-mans. I'm in quested items and tailoring gear, and there's only one piece of gladiator armor that wouldn't be a hit to both my healing and my MP5 (and it would still be a small hit to MP5). I wear very little PvP reward gear on my healer, far less than any other Kara-ready toon I have. Just the neck and wand, at this point, and I could probably find a better wand.

I also think group composition *is* important when breaking into kara, as well as learning the fights.

Good group composition is a plus.
Knowing the fights is a plus.
Better gear than quested/instance blues is a plus.
Everyone knowing their class backwards and forwards is a plus.

The more pluses you have, the less you need the others. Have them all? You'll be wondering why anyone finds Kara at all difficult. Have none? Get ready for a wipefest.

My guild has made three serious attempts at kara, having only two people that have run kara on their (in other guilds) mains (neither of which have actually lead raids there, so they don't have complete familiarity with the fights). One boss down the first time, three the second, and five the third. We feel we're making good progress, though I'm sure that guilds that have had kara on farm for a while are wondering what's taking us so long :grin:

[Epicmage]

Big part for getting some of my raiders into gear was having them look up videos of Kara Fights, trying to learn their role and I encouraged them to learn other peoples roles on the fight aswell because i find it helps synchronize the raid. Go over the roles with your raid before each fight in the begining. An extra 10 min of preparation beats a wipe + frustration. Encourage people to run Heroics and PVP for gear improvments. It all comes down to the fact that you need to raid with serious people.... unless you yourself are looking for something casual. It will take some time but you will slowely weed out who isnt comitted and slowely but surely thats how you form a good guild and strong progression in instances.

[Pongle]

My guild's progression group looked a bit like this (this is old and from memory).

Rogue (Mutilate due to lack of combat weapons), Hunter (Beast), Warrior (Prot), Druid (Feral), Warlock (Dest), Warlock (Afflic), Shaman (Resto), Paladin (Holy), Priest (Holy), X.

X was usually a Mage, Rogue or dps Warrior.

[korl]

I agree that I need to raid with serious people. Thats the process I'm in right now - to find those people. It takes time, but I am sure it will happen eventually.

[Ash Housewares]

QFT. realy nothing to add here.

pretty much

heck, I just did a kara with

1 prot warrior
2 fury warriors
1 enhance shaman
1 hunter
1 warlock
1 shadow priest
1 resto druid
2 holy paladins

so we had 4 melee, as far as being geared...
prot warrior, warlock, and 1 holy paladin were extremely well geared, the rest ranged from good to bad (me)

so having the tank and main healer in super gear makes things easier sure, its the same as a 5man, if you have awesome heals and tanks you can get by with anything as long as people know how to play


and I almost always have a shadow priest (I usually am the shadow priest!) people fight over them, I feel loved, if people fight over you, must be a class worth taking eh?

and I like totems too :D

[moopy]

Yeah, there's nothing like a Karazhan alt run tanked by a t6 druid, with t6 healing.. makes it go down smoooooothe :)

[corga]

Remember that the curator is a gear check. if your wiping on curator early in the fight 70%-30% health, maybe even lower, then your dps is too low. this can be solved with gearing and buffing. Make it mandatory to bring flasks and all that other stuff. Dont just blame the dps too, a healer without any mana5 sucks. if your wiping near his death do everything you can do to up your dps in this fight. also remind your priests to use thier shadowfiend while evocation so they can gain back loads of mana :)

[moopy]

Remember that the curator is a gear check. if your wiping on curator early in the fight 70%-30% health, maybe even lower, then your dps is too low. this can be solved with gearing and buffing. Make it mandatory to bring flasks and all that other stuff.

I take issue with the above, it's misleading :)

Flasking Karazhan is total overkill, and was even a few nerfs ago- need in cleared by raids in blues with very light consumable use, and certainly no flasks. Also, the situation you describe is more often caused by dps being on the wrong target- and the raid taking lots of damage from the astral flares. Curator is as much as "do what you're told" check as a gear check. It can be a lot harder if some bright souls try and stay on the boss, so the raid gets behind on the adds.

Not killing the adds has, in my experience, been the primary cause of problems on this boss. By far the most common reason for this is people simply not dpssing them- had they done so in a timely manner, using sensible ability rotations, then the dps would have been ample.

That said, it's good manners to go into kara with a set of lv 115 blues with proper gems and enchants anyway, just to show willing.

[corga]

but dont be mislead that curator cannot be done without sufficient dps, on both the boss and on the flares. Blizz really wants you to earn your first T4 pieces :)

[Pongle]

Flasking Karazhan is total overkill, and was even a few nerfs ago- need in cleared by raids in blues with very light consumable use, and certainly no flasks.

Any Warrior tanking prince should really consider a fort flask unless he out gears KZ because it reduces the chance of those absurd gibs you can get with below epic quality gear.

[moopy]

Any Warrior tanking prince should really consider a fort flask unless he out gears KZ because it reduces the chance of those absurd gibs you can get with below epic quality gear.

Actually, that's a pretty good point, and a definite exception. That said, if he's uncrittable, and has over 12k unbuffed, he should be easy enough for non-braindead healers to keep alive in even p2 of prince (who can thrash for 12k), assuming his mitigation is in line with the rest of his gear.

Of course, you can't always count on non-braindead healers, and could get some in PvP gear, who don't pre-heal, or who are just watching TV. However, no consumables will fix that.

but dont be mislead that curator cannot be done without sufficient dps, on both the boss and on the flares. Blizz really wants you to earn your first T4 pieces :)

Hmm, when the best DPS in your raid has nothing better than 115 blues, and you still drop both the adds and boss with ease, that kinda gives the lie to this assertion. It's all in how fast people acquire the target and get efficient cycles down. If you suck, you won't manage it, and will need more gear, of course.

[corga]

That is quite right, you can bring the curator down faster with good macros for flare targeting. I am very fortunate to not get stuck on the curator with me guild, 2 shotted him when we all made macros. BTW have you killed him yet?

[Aerath]

That is quite right, you can bring the curator down faster with good macros for flare targeting. I am very fortunate to not get stuck on the curator with me guild, 2 shotted him when we all made macros. BTW have you killed him yet?

What is it with every one and macros ? At Illhoof... sure, there's a dozen imps all over the place and it might be annoying to have to pick up the chains swiftly.

But at curator there's all of -2- maximum enemies. Hit your [tab] key and yer done.

[Morollan]

What is it with every one and macros ? At Illhoof... sure, there's a dozen imps all over the place and it might be annoying to have to pick up the chains swiftly.

But at curator there's all of -2- maximum enemies. Hit your [tab] key and yer done.

I'm generally on flare duty with my enhancement shaman and I have to say the macro is more useful than the tab key. I have my macro set to target the flare, cast Frost Shock and start auto attack. Yes, I can do all that manually but why bother? It's easier with a macro.

[moopy]

That is quite right, you can bring the curator down faster with good macros for flare targeting. I am very fortunate to not get stuck on the curator with me guild, 2 shotted him when we all made macros. BTW have you killed him yet?

You don't need macros. There are two targets. Try the tab key some time.

Oh, and thanks for asking- yes, oddly, I have seen the Curator die a few times. Karazhan is a two hour clear for our alts, after we waste a couple of evenings clearing the t6 instances.

[corga]

Im sorry if I was a little rude, but I was asking korl if he had killed curator, not you. I trust that you have through the wealth of information you have provided.

I am also sorry if I have come off as a dick through my constant needing to get the last word :P

[moopy]

Thank goodness that my sarcastic rely was more or less polite- apologies for the snarky tone though. I clearly need moar coffee today :-)

[Pongle]

Actually, that's a pretty good point, and a definite exception. That said, if he's uncrittable, and has over 12k unbuffed, he should be easy enough for non-braindead healers to keep alive in even p2 of prince (who can thrash for 12k), assuming his mitigation is in line with the rest of his gear.

Of course, you can't always count on non-braindead healers, and could get some in PvP gear, who don't pre-heal, or who are just watching TV. However, no consumables will fix that.

Prince can do 15k damage in about 1 second in phase 2 with sunder hitting the tank and shield block down (and believe me, thats inevitable). Prince > Gruul tbh.