Old Ironforge

[Maticus]

Leord just linked me this movie (http://wow.incgamers.com/wowtv/media/217/Old_Ironforge/) of Old Ironforge. I've seen clips before but never one this detailed. And to think, we almost had this instead of the boring version we have now, but people complained it was too confusing and kept getting lost :sad:

I put it on WoWTV (http://wow.incgamers.com/wowtv/media/217/Old_Ironforge/)for others to see.

[frimley]

Hmm, that doesn't look like the same Old Ironforge that you can get to by glitching through the walls?

[Wiglet]

I prefer that one! There plenty of signposts. It looks no more confusing than Silvermoon or the Exodar

[Twoflower]

looks cool !

i'd think this IF with the new forge in the middle would be the perect version.

how on earth can they think that this is too confusing but leave undercity as it is ?

[moopy]

Undercity is my favorite city- navigation is CAEK once you understand the structure. Concentric rings of "stuff", divided into quadrants, with the bank at the core. I quite like the layout of Ironforge too, for similar reasons, but UC pips it for me. SW and Org, on the other hand, I find just too jumbled and crowded.

[Dhoum]

it does, indeed, look very nice ... and I'm intrigued as to where the tram went.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

looks cool !

i'd think this IF with the new forge in the middle would be the perect version.

how on earth can they think that this is too confusing but leave undercity as it is ?

Undercity isn't confusing. In fact, it is the city I have the easiest time navigating. For me, it is easy like the Exodar on the Alliance is.

[Maticus]

I find the Exodar terrible! Places like IF and UC are good because you can get to any place by cutting through the middle, and there are clear routes. Exodar is a nightmare to navigate, and SW isn't much better (I only know my way around there because I've spent so much time there in the past).

But if you forget the practicality, or lack of, the complicated cities are more realistic and fun to explore. I whine about the Exodar, but in total contradiction of myself, I'd love to see the "old" complicated IF :tongue:

[HandofDread]

Undercity is my favorite city- navigation is CAEK once you understand the structure. Concentric rings of "stuff", divided into quadrants, with the bank at the core. I quite like the layout of Ironforge too, for similar reasons, but UC pips it for me. SW and Org, on the other hand, I find just too jumbled and crowded.

AMEN AMEN AMEN...

A mix of Old and "New" IF would have been nice... maybe open things up a little bit more around the Great Forge and keep most of the look of the New IF in the Forge... I love the multiple tiers and rings of Old IF it makes IF seem a lot less flat and more lifelike and dynamic....

As for my current Favorite cities to navigate... UC wins hands down.... you never leave your mount, it's all based on one simple ring with quads, and Auctioneers are easily accessed and rarely crowded...

I do like SW's organization if not so much its ease of movement, it tends to be slightly scrunched and it's a pain to have to walk all the way from bridge to bridge to get from one corner to the next....

Org and TB however take the cake for most annoying cities... TB you pop off your mount every 5 seconds when changing tiers, and Org is just so darn... big... to run from one end to the next is a pain in my rear....

Silvermoon funny enough is a lot of fun when you realize there are a half dozen shortcuts to go from point A to point B...

I think the key to making the best cities is in allowing a lot of different quick routes from point A to B where you DONT have to leave your mount...

Once you learn... oh cut through here take that side alley there... it gets to be really fun... and make for some great PVP...

Even with all my love for WoW I am interested to see how Warhammer Online Cap cities will be like with RvR being such a big deal.... For defense you want a complicated city with lots of turns, tiers, and alleyways... but then that makes a city too difficult to maneuver in on a day to day basis... and I guess like any MMO it's a scale that tends to get balanced more towards ease of movement and simplification then real life complexity...

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

I find the Exodar terrible! Places like IF and UC are good because you can get to any place by cutting through the middle, and there are clear routes. Exodar is a nightmare to navigate, and SW isn't much better (I only know my way around there because I've spent so much time there in the past).

But if you forget the practicality, or lack of, the complicated cities are more realistic and fun to explore. I whine about the Exodar, but in total contradiction of myself, I'd love to see the "old" complicated IF :tongue:

Everything is all collected together in the Exodar. All nice and snug, without even needing the distances that the UC or IF has. I dunno, I'm always looking for shortest path routes, and the Exodar has the other Alliance cities beat, hands down. Just like the Undercity does for Horde.

[Lothaer]

i would have prefered the old IF to the new one looks much more fun, also Exodar is CAKE to navigate, once you've spent some time in there, for me the hardest city to get through is silvermoon.

[Valas Azuviir]

Even with all my love for WoW I am interested to see how Warhammer Online Cap cities will be like with RvR being such a big deal.... For defense you want a complicated city with lots of turns, tiers, and alleyways... but then that makes a city too difficult to maneuver in on a day to day basis... and I guess like any MMO it's a scale that tends to get balanced more towards ease of movement and simplification then real life complexity...

As long as those cities have a couple of decent chokepoints, then defending them should be doable. Think of Murder Alley in SMC, then add another layer, where you can stand on balconies and overlook the approach. Perfect spot to park some AoE folks to help keep things locked down.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

i would have prefered the old IF to the new one looks much more fun, also Exodar is CAKE to navigate, once you've spent some time in there, for me the hardest city to get through is silvermoon.

silvermoon's not too bad once you realize there are shortcuts you can take through some shops and inns.

[Leord]

Regarding Old Ironforge (or Ironforge Alpha, which is better to call it, as the part that most people call "Old Ironforge" (which is in fact Hall of Thanes) is something completely different) was in my humble opinion SO much cooler than the new one. Two stories of buildings, as you would imagine in a big cave, bridges and suspensions, level differences... The Tinker Town and "Old Ironforge" (Hall of Thanes, again) were accessible through lifts downward. The gnome "town" was a tad larger as well. What we know as Tinker town today was called the "Industrial Ward".

The reason they change it was (apparently) that there was a lot of complaints from Alpha testers that got lost in the town, so they stripped it down to the watered-down version we see today.

TBH: Ironforge was the town that struck me as having the least feeling when I started playing. I didn't know it was because of this change.

The one feature I DO like with the current Ironforge is the big square between Bank and AH, that did not exist in the old version. A combination between the Alpha and the current square would have been terrific. Redesigning the Great Forge slightyly would have been nice to (I like neither the current or the Alpha).

[Janfader]

Like any new city, it's tough to figure things out. My worst experience was Undercity and Stormwind. Old IF looks pretty cool IMO.

Undercity for the worst things to figure out was how to get into lady sylanvanis's room and then how to get back up :P It took awhile for me to get used to that place as opposed to the other cities Horde or Alliance. But after I figured out the signage near the bank in UC existed - everything came clear :P

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

What people may fail to understand is that IF and SW in the alpha and beta were corribly confusing. For SW, it was a matter of removing some crates and such that were totally blocking things off. Both were designed to be like mazes, and you could spend quite literally hours in there trying to remember what the correct path was. None of the cities now are even 5% as complicated as those two, the first two cities put in the game, were like.

It wasn't just because of how confusing, it also made traveling through them terrible. If IF was still as it was back then, nobody would have used it. We're talking 30 minutes (without getting lost) to go between the flightmaster and auctionhouse, 15 between the auctionhouse and bank...

[xDarkDrifterx]

I dunno, I'm always looking for shortest path routes, and the Exodar has the other Alliance cities beat, hands down.

Are we talking about the same Exodar? :ponder: :wink:

So I go to the Bank then the AH then the Engineering Trainer then I want to go to the flight path . . . doing this once @ the Exodar was enough for me and I moved that toon to IF. IMO Exodar is like SW in so far as things are too spread out, and wtf is up with the 3 min ride out of the ship to get to the flightpath? It's not confusing it's just takes far to long IMO especially at lower levels without a mount. The above scenario would take a low level toon 15 minutes to do at least.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

Are we talking about the same Exodar? :ponder: :wink:

So I go to the Bank then the AH then the Engineering Trainer then I want to go to the flight path . . . doing this once @ the Exodar was enough for me and I moved that toon to IF. IMO Exodar is like SW in so far as things are too spread out, and wtf is up with the 3 min ride out of the ship to get to the flightpath? It's not confusing it's just takes far to long IMO especially at lower levels without a mount. The above scenario would take a low level toon 15 minutes to do at least.

Bank and AH are literally right next to each other. The Engineering Trainer isn't too far away either. Compare that to IF -- Bank and AH are about the same distance, but the Engineering Trainer is on the other side of the city! Or Stormwind. Bank and AH kinda close together, but the Engineering trainer? Way back in the boonies, about the farthest from them as you can get. And then there is Darnassus. Oh, wait, there is no Engineering Trainer in Darnassus! It is a flightpath or boat ride away!

My Dwarf *always* goes to Exodar to get her professions done. Everything is nice, close, and easy to get to. No needing to run 3 miles to get to one thing or another. And, she is an Engineer and Miner.