im starting to hate pug's [Archive] - Unofficial World of Warcraft Forums

elsegundo

06-03-2008, 02:39 AM

i really am. last week i was trying to get a group together for SM, and finally found some guys willing to go. started off with three people, then added more. There was a warrior, a druid, a paladin, a hunter, and me, a warlock.

first thing's first, we had to meet at the meeting stone. two of us were there, and we summoned one from sw. good so far. hunter was running around tirisfal getting killed. happens i guess. he soon joins up and we try to get the paly summoned. worked after several tries. i guess pally wasnt paying attention. anyway... got everyone there.

we start off with the hardest, SM Cath, and proceeded into the courtyard, made our way up to the doors of the cathedral. nice. druid died twice from grabbing her own mob. most mobs come in sets of two or three, so she would offtank with a cat. not good. she would complain that paly wouldnt heal, since pally was designated healer. he was looking out for the tank. i thought druid should have helped the tank.

people afks. i pull, tank afks without telling anyone, druid tries to take aggro from me, pally stands around waiting to heal, hunter goes multishot and pulls aggro too. hunter almost dies three times but miraculously, we kill mobs before he dies. tank gets back, apologizes and we go for more mobs. paly barely heals. tank goes afk and then logs. we look for new tank. druid offtanks while we wait for new tank. druid dies. disconnects. we look for another person.

we find a warrior who has no shield. took me soulshard to summon but thats fine. took me three tries to get him summoned due to people not clicking on the portal i made. died several times by horde due to peole opening the door thinking we needed to go to summoning stone. anyway, we take another 10 minutes discussing how loot works since warrior wanted herod's shoulders, as does pally. mind you we're still in front of the cathedral doors. things respawn, we go kill, doors open, we take out some folks. pally keeps afking... gets kicked. we find shaman. go outside, summon. we go back in kill a few more. at this point i pulled groups from inside out to the grass. it works fine until most of the cathedral is cleared. then shaman, who seems to know everything, says we can fight mobs inside. i didnt want to, but we did anyway. mob starts to flee when low on health, aggro's boss, thus aggos whole cath. we wipe. hunter disconnects. after we rez'ed we did everything my way. no objections from knowitall shammy. good. we find mage, summoned him. we clear all rooms, however mage pulled too much aggro. priest didnt heal but instead kept killing things. shammy pulled aggro like a champ. tank was on dialup and cant react fast enough. still, we killed fairbanks. then kill mograin or whatever. we killed his girlfriend. on to armory.

things goes smoothly. shammy tells warrior to use shield. warrior wants insane dps so he tries to argue. we tell him we wont heal him unless he shields up. he does so reluctantly. he finally asks priest to heal him. priest agrees so he goes back to no shield+2hander. shammy sighs. i sigh. we kill everything slowly. things went smooth. herod dies and we kill his minions at the end. warrior doesnt get the shoulders he wanted and asks to do it all over again. im fed up. i decide to leave.

i hate pug's.

anyone else hate pug's??

teck21

06-03-2008, 03:30 AM

I don't hate pugs, they're a great way to l2p, especially for people who go way back and the only way to learn, was in fact pug. You see the good and the bad. You are forced to learn to cope with crap happening.

One learns how play in a group instead of being in one's own over powered guild run where all one needs to do is watch what everyone else is doing and follow.

And as for your run, I can't say I sympathize too much with you because, well, it reads to me like you were as responsible as the next person in making the run horrible.

There was no leadership in the party, and if you did not step up to try to take it to make things go better, you can't really complain about getting a
sh!tty pug.

celticshinobi

06-03-2008, 03:40 AM

lol, this sounds almost EXACTLY like the SM run I went on with my priest alt...

corga

06-03-2008, 04:54 AM

they get better with levels. some PUG's are good too. I once went on a ZF run back before TBC we had a warlock and a hunter pet tank healing shaman a rogue and me a mage. We did wickedly well with only 1 death (me on the tons of mobs on the stairs with my stupid aoe) we ended up running that thing 3 times and then doing a ST run all in 3 hours. we still do this every weekend on heroics minus the rogue because he quit and now with a random dps class. best PUG ever made

Twoflower

06-03-2008, 05:01 AM

i love pug's. we never fail. i had a 3 person run in slave pens 2 days ago, 64 rogue, 64 priest ( me ) and 65 shaman. the earth elemental tanked all the bosses. was a laugh.

if you start with a negative aproach, things will end up negative. which is a shame, since you will feel taht you were right. Start positive. stay positive.

( had to say this before moopy comes in here and starts his normal speech about how much PuG's suck. And yes, sometimes they do. sometimes. All the other times i am pleasantly surprised of how well a run can go. )

corga

06-03-2008, 05:35 AM

earth elemental only lasts 2 minutes, and I dont think slave pens could take 2 mins could they?

teck21

06-03-2008, 08:52 AM

earth elemental only lasts 2 minutes, and I dont think slave pens could take 2 mins could they?

You're assuming trash always needs proper 'tanking' when more often than not, all that is needed is coordination and knowing how to play.

That said, 3 manning SP at 64 64 65 still boggles my mind. :rolleyes:

'if you start with a negative aproach, things will end up negative. which is a shame, since you will feel taht you were right. Start positive. stay positive.'

Exactly. And if things don't go right, take it upon yourself to make it right.

dexterhall

06-03-2008, 09:31 AM

What bugs me is when people "dc" after a wipe. It's like "people" expect things to be really easy these days, so whenever something doesn't go as planned, they bail. At the very least, say you'll leave, don't be a coward. There's also quite a bit of sudden; "I have to eat. Brb 15min" /afk. And "last try for me, my gear is red", after two deaths.

SM is particularly bad, as it takes forever to get there as alliance. Last run was on my shaman. The group leader is another shaman, and there was a paladin, and two rogues. So the group is now full, but nothing happens. I stay where I am, because I'm usually always at the stone, and this apathy annoys me. Finally it turns out noone wants to go summon. I suggest we roll for it. So we roll. The paladin is already on his way, and one of the rogues lose. He then has a lot of excuses about his hs, how others are better to go for various reasons. I end up going to save time, and we summon the rest. Once there, someone asks who will heal. So the group leader says that I will. Mind you, he's lower level than me, so from a dps perspective the group would be better off with him on healing, since the paladin is tanking. As he choses to spring this on me, I have no elixirs or gear with me, but I agree to do it (not that I'm given any choice). They now proceed to chain pull everything in the instance and things die. I drink every chance I can to fill my little mana pool, but there is little focus fire, and they all take damage and run out of los. Then when I'm oom, they decide to pull and the paladin dies. The paladin says, "wtf", and the rogue starts to blame me. I tell him to shut his trap and explain to them, I had no mana, so they say I should ask for a break. I tell them, no, they should pay a little attention. The rogue tells me, I'm rude. I tell them gl, and leave the group. The rogue whispers me to have fun...

I like PUGs, and I do it a lot. The only thing that will make me leave a group is a bad attitude and harsh language, or, on a rare occasion, if I really believe we are unable to kill the boss after many tries. It seems to me OP tried to make it work, but you really have to want it and spend a lot of time, because a lot of players don't know how to do an instance, run in there, and try to solo play. Luckily, the majority of people, I meet, are pleasant enough to play with, and I believe that refusing to PUG is to miss out:)

moopy

06-03-2008, 11:50 AM

I only join pugs with toons that I am levelling/gearing up. This means sub-kara gear, so they're cheap to repair and wipes bother me less. I don't pug with my "grown-up" characters, as the gear just costs too darn much to repair. Because I stand to lose very little even if there's epic wiping, it makes things a lot more fun, and the occasional disaster is actually hilarious.

Baboon

06-03-2008, 12:28 PM

PUG's start to get bad once most people only use guilds for instances. When TBC was new, everyone had to pug and it was fine. Now most people who pug have hardly any experience with group mechanics, so it's horrible. I've had a warrior and a paladin fighting for aggro with big 2handers at the start of (normal) Ramparts. My priest watched it a little and quickly ran out.

moopy

06-03-2008, 12:36 PM

I dunno, Baboon. You'll find people pugging who are alts of folks in high-end raiding guilds, where guildies aren't really going to want to do non-heroic 5 man content.

It's all a bit of a lucky dip- there are plenty out there into whom you couldn't kick a clue, sure. You know the sort, grind to the level cap, and think that because they can mindlessly kill single mobs for a whole day that they're lords of creation. These people generally don't know what tanking is, understand about attacking the right targets, or anything else. If you're lucky, the clueless are nice people in the "knows that he knows not" category, and can get the hang of it after the first few pulls. If you're unlucky, they're arrogant grinder/PvP rogue types who run ahead and aggro half the instance, and throw a temper tantrum when you tell them only to attack tanked targets- no concept of tanking, assisting, aggro, mana, planning, attention span or anything else.

Life is, as the man said, like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna git.

Twoflower

06-03-2008, 01:31 PM

You're assuming trash always needs proper 'tanking' when more often than not, all that is needed is coordination and knowing how to play.

That said, 3 manning SP at 64 64 65 still boggles my mind. :rolleyes:

the shaman enhancer tanked the trash.

realy, they hit for like nothing... i usualy wasnt even lower than 60% mana after a trashgroup.

and yes we downed all 3 bosses in less than 2 minutes.

corga

06-03-2008, 01:44 PM

the shaman enhancer tanked the trash.

realy, they hit for like nothing... i usualy wasnt even lower than 60% mana after a trashgroup.

and yes we downed all 3 bosses in less than 2 minutes.

KK I didnt know that the enhance shammy was tanking, that confused me a little. PUG's are horrible in early levels because all the noob dont get thier characters past 30-40 after that little part you get some amazing groups. Mind you that there are some retarted elemental shamans that roll on every cloth piece in maraudon (spelling?) AND WIN. at least I won that nice purple caster dagger in the end (its a 0.25% drop rate I was SOOOO happy!) I loled when she got kicked just as the boss died so that she couldnt loot anymore.

Strongwind

06-03-2008, 01:46 PM

Unless you are in a guild that has like-level toons to can run instances, pugs are the best way to appreciate the low-level instances such as SM and helps you understand how to play your toon. I had one VC experience where a lvl 19 tank broke up the group because he couldn't get a lvl 70 toon to run us through, makes no sense to me.

I do have a pet peeve with pugs when members show up unprepared (no arrows/bows, food/drinks, 50% durability, etc.) And alliance members who are too lazy to make the trek to SM (or any instances for that matter), just shows they just want to show up and collect loot and/or level up with minimal effort.

wyren

06-03-2008, 02:43 PM

Even a horrible pug is an opportunity to practice leadership and diplomacy. 2 skills that will take you farther in this game than bat like reflexes.

moopy

06-03-2008, 03:47 PM

I want batlike reflexes! Echolocation > "track hidden"!

elsegundo

06-03-2008, 10:13 PM

tek21 - thanks for the reply. i did try to guide the group though, as in telling them who heals, how the pull works, etc. normally i would try to adapt to other's play styles, and it worked out ok. but for the most part, i think a lot of the group members had no idea of what to do. the only person i thought i would ever party with again was the shaman, even though i did say he was a knowitall, he did know what he was doing.

2flowers - i didnt have too much expectations for grouping up. when i'm asked to join a party, i find that its a very good experience. so thinking positive or negative wasnt really in my mind. and because of that, i think that when hiccups do occur, the negatives do creep in a lot easier than if i had a good attitude about things.

dexter - there was no bad attitude or harsh language in my group. there were just people doing things that's great for solo play, but not great for group play. there were people afk'ing half the time and there were people clueless as to what to do in certain situations. i know accidents do happen, but the two hours i spent in cath and armory wasnt really worth the effort, and it wasnt due to bad wipes. and i did try to deal with it the best i can. it was one of those experiences where i look back and i go, "should have left, should have left... should have left!"

corga - you lucky.....

and i think a lot of the bad pug's i've come across are due to people getting free rides through earlier instances. iono if im the only one who thinks this, but that's my take on why ppl are so bad sometimes.

teck21

07-03-2008, 03:28 AM

Well, chalk that down to a bad group experience. Idiots exist everywhere and you happened to get a whole bunch at one time.

I don't think you'll get any that bad that often. All I ask when I pug is that everyone tries their best to work as a group, and that happens surprisingly often. I don't expect everyone to know everything perfectly, as long as people put in effort it's all good.

Although my expectations are different if we do a more demanding heroic or 10-man raiding (don't do 25s, so no clue there). That's when I expect people already know their class and the skills of other classes, and enough not to do stupid things like take a tour of the instance themselves before the group is ready.

But for levelling instances, there will always be people on their first character, some of whom are really stupid/obstinate/arrogant/whatever, but most people do try, which is good.

corga

07-03-2008, 04:49 AM

I would rather have the lightning capacitor now then the caster dagger then, allthough it was a nice dagger...

enidummaihuvet

07-03-2008, 08:34 AM

i prefer to have idiots on the red side, then you can kill them

Marlous

07-03-2008, 12:03 PM

I had no mana, so they say I should ask for a break. I tell them, no, they should pay a little attention.

It seems there are a lot of different opinions on this, often causing problems during a run. I personally believe that while we should all pay a little attention to teach other (the leader a bit more so than the rest), it's up to the healer to announce when they're out of mana. If the leader fails to notice the empty bar (maybe because he was busy marking, or keeping an eye on that dps-er who ventured too close to the next group, whatever), then just speak up yourself instead of continuing on without any mana and then blame the rest of the party. It's your own responsibility, I feel, just like I feel it's mine to ask for a short break if I need to renew the soulstone, toss a few greys due to lack of space, or do whatever.

But like I said, that's what I personally believe. How do others see this?

moopy

07-03-2008, 12:08 PM

Marlous,

Err on the side of caution. Call mana breaks and make people wait. I generally don't need mana breaks in 5 man content, but if I do, I always make a point of saying "hold on a sec, let me get some mana" or similar. The group will lose a lot more time pulling with no healing and wiping than it will giving you 15 seconds to finish drinking.

Of course, you can mitigate the delays by being quick at drinking, and moving into position- but fundamentally, you're part of the critical path. The group should be aware of your mana, be it through their own attention or your warnings. It's better to be safe than sorry, and give them a friendly heads-up if it looks like they didn't spot that you're still grabbing blue stuff.

Twoflower

07-03-2008, 01:32 PM

moopy

07-03-2008, 02:14 PM

when the tank pulls i sit and drink allready. by the time he needs his first heal my mana is full.

that said, it is ALWAYS the responsability of the tank to check if his healers have mana before pulling the next group. The raidleader has enugh other things to do. The healers dont want to spam the chat after every pull that they are out of mana. It is up to the tank, period.

Personally, I was talking about 5 man- given that the topic was about PUGs. In raids, on trash, it's generally a non-issue, unless you've just had a massive overpull and everyone is OOM. Healers burn mana on trash at different rates, and rarely all need mana at once. Sure, the MT/puller should be aware of overall healer mana, but it should be rare that you don't have enough healers up at any time to pull. The ones that need mana just drink, and catch up. This keeps things moving, so you can chainpull :)

Dakiter

07-03-2008, 02:50 PM

Was in a pug with my shaman that was very good except for the hunter we had. The tank (Tankadin) and Healer (Healadin) came as a pair and was explaining how they pull and mark. The first two pulls were a disaster but we survived. We were getting over run and our hunter was attacking anything, no traps and no pet attacks. After the second pull we fall back and he follows us so we know he is there. We ask if there is lag, or if there is an rl issue and we get a brief no answer. Then he types in "What do you mean trap?" I take it to whispers and say, "hey man I have a 70 hunter let me help. You have different..." I will stop there as it goes on for awhile. I was super polite and he snapped, "Dont tell me! I have a 70 warlock! I know how to play!" This debate continued for about 5 minutes when I gave up. I whispered the tank and told him what happened. We tried one more time and when it went to hell and this time our healer died and I had to switch from DPS to healing (I backout to help healer but he got nailed by 4 mobs at once and my enhance spec just couldnt keep up with that kinda healing) we kicked him. Picked up a mage friends and life was good. The first three pulls were a mess because the hunter wasnt CC'in, wasnt assisting on main tank and picking up agroe everywhere.

Its been a while since I had an experience like this. The Tank/Healer combo were great and I hope to run with them again, but that hunter is one I hope to never see again!

GameyHarp

07-03-2008, 04:04 PM

I don't hate pugs, I hate people in pugs that don't know how to play there roll in parties. The only way to get experience in doing so though is by being in a pug and not knowing what your doing. Wish blizz would implement something that kind of gave you some experience in parties without having to join one and not know what your doing. Theres just kind of a learning curve that is pretty steep for new players.

moopy

07-03-2008, 04:48 PM

Zachariah

07-03-2008, 05:55 PM

I wish I knew if Corga was playing a complex double-bluff irony rebound play, because I couldn't bear to think that someone who likes Calvin & Hobbes doesn't get Twoflower.

Twoflower

07-03-2008, 06:01 PM

wait wait what now -.- i dont get myself sometimes :) you have me confused now.

swaldman

07-03-2008, 06:48 PM

Err on the side of caution. Call mana breaks and make people wait. I generally don't need mana breaks in 5 man content, but if I do, I always make a point of saying "hold on a sec, let me get some mana" or similar. The group will lose a lot more time pulling with no healing and wiping than it will giving you 15 seconds to finish drinking.

Pet peeve: players who sit there at 20% health after a fight, not eating or bandaging but waiting to be healed, and then complain at my having to drink after topping them up...

Cattleya

08-03-2008, 10:22 PM

For the most part, if someone wants to pull when I need mana I'll just sit and keep drinking and hope I can get to them in time. Most tanks can be trained pretty quickly to wait for for Prayer of Mending to smack them anyhow.

I did have one tank that was beyond oblivious for a pug heroic mech. I think the thing that bugged me was that this wasn't occurring after pulls. (I generally come out of even ugly pulls with enough mana to continue.) No, this would happen after a wipe. I'd rez everyone, do the buffs, heal people up, and the before I could even sit down to drink the tank has pulled, and managed to get two groups instead of one. So it was pot, Shadowfiend and hope for the best. I should have just bolted for the entrance, but I guess I'm too nice. I hate wasting mana pots on people's stupidity, though. This happened twice on the run.

We finished the run (after almost 3 hours — it was a painful, painful run) and the tank went on my list of people not to do a group with ever again.

But sometimes pugs can surprise you too. When I was newer to 70, I got talked into do Sethick halls with a pug. (There was only one other 70 in the group, so we were far from overpowered.) We didn't have a tank, but everyone knew how to CC and we blew through the run quickly by having 4 dpsers. It was quite fun.

corga

09-03-2008, 01:27 AM

I do get twoflower (exept maybe why he is a gnome) I was just trying to be a know it all retard :)

snowieken

09-03-2008, 11:15 AM

and i think a lot of the bad pug's i've come across are due to people getting free rides through earlier instances. iono if im the only one who thinks this, but that's my take on why ppl are so bad sometimes.You're not the only one, I think that's even spot on in a lot of cases. The only instance experience quite a lot of people have at level 30-40, is running after a big level gathering loot. Also, it's people not willing to learn from these early instances, which is exactly what they are designed for. Usually, the instances get harder after level 40. Whereas instances like Deadmines, SFK, and yes, even Gnomeregan, can be completed by sheer luck alone, instances like Maraudon, ZF and definately Sunken Temple require a bit more skill and tactics. Uldaman is a grey area. :laugh:

But anyway, lots of player don't take the time anymore to do an instance properly at the low levels. They either get a boost, or get through by absolutely not knowing what they are doing, just because these lower level instances are so forgivable in that aspect. When they get to higher level instances, they think it works that way as well and then are surprised that they are getting their sorry bottoms kicked.

More often than not, I get bullied for wanting to do things properly. But I'm leveling a Tankadin at the moment for the first time, I want to practice tanking until the real stuff comes up. Besides, it's more fun to do things properly, with tactics, rather than barging in and just clear the place as quickly as possible.

That's my pet peeve in PuG's: people who refuse to do things properly, just want to run through it to get the quests done and the gear looted as soon as possible. Yesterday, after looking for about an hour for 5th member for a group for Gnomeregan - none of us was level 30 yet, so a bit low to 4-man the place - we finally found someone. Until he said "I can't stay for more than 20 minutes, I just need the first boss". Sheesh, get a boost then, and stay out of groups of people who want to do the whole instance, and do it properly. In the end we decided to 4-man it and we did nicely - apart from the warlock soulstoning himself - but couldn't finish because it lasted and lasted and everyone got so tired of it in the end.

But we had great fun, exactly because we simply had to use tactics and markings and all the whatchamacallit, just to be able to get through with the 4 of us (levels 24, 26, another 26 and 29).

theshard

09-03-2008, 06:29 PM

But anyway, lots of player don't take the time anymore to do an instance properly at the low levels. They either get a boost, or get through by absolutely not knowing what they are doing, just because these lower level instances are so forgivable in that aspect. When they get to higher level instances, they think it works that way as well and then are surprised that they are getting their sorry bottoms kicked.

More often than not, I get bullied for wanting to do things properly. But I'm leveling a Tankadin at the moment for the first time, I want to practice tanking until the real stuff comes up. Besides, it's more fun to do things properly, with tactics, rather than barging in and just clear the place as quickly as possible.

This is my biggest thing against pugs as well. I have a tankadin and am trying to use these lower level instances to learn tanking as it should be done. Not long ago I was in a group for Ulda and shammie just decided he would tank most of the instance. I quit fighting for aggro with him and let him tank what he pulled. Luckily the healer was good enough to keep us both up but she knew I was priorty and if the shammie died I would pickup the aggro before it got to her.

The shammie was well geared and we actually had more problems from the lower level rogue drawing stray aggro on occasion and the hunter not listening to directions. In the end we finished the instance and found a good healer to run with so I can't complain all that much.

That being said, I think alot of players are missing out on fundamental learning with these lower instances. Even in groups that are all level appropriate, you still end up with someone being overpowered with their mongoose enchant on that level 38 sword and all the best agility/stamina enchants in the game.

moopy

10-03-2008, 05:53 PM

Pet peeve: players who sit there at 20% health after a fight, not eating or bandaging but waiting to be healed, and then complain at my having to drink after topping them up...

Oh, I am totally with you there. Buggers. I know I can heal most people up quite efficiently- my big heals crit around 10k, but still.. Only use me as a mana battery or OOC HP topup if I really like you, or you might get a piece of my mind :-)

Conversely, there are some times when I have to tell warlocks that it's ok to tap, or similar- if the mobs are staying on the tank and I am having trouble using up mana at all, I'll get people to slack off a bit, just because I have lots to spare. The secret is that they need to be aware of my mana and the situation, and not extract the urine.

Justinledwards

14-03-2008, 12:28 AM

The only folks I'll heal after a wipe are the tanks usually. That's just practical though, with 20k health they have to eat 3 times, that's what, 80s or so?

I'll toss around some chain heals but that's cos I like to showoff (other healing classes are soooo jealous of chain heal, i know it) and watch the pretty laser beams.

elsegundo

21-03-2008, 06:48 PM

thanks guys for the support and suggestions etc. i've sworn off instances for a while and have come to enjoy the questing a lot more now. i did do ZF one saturday and i have to say, met some pretty dumb folks too, but luckily they left before we even got there. one guy wouldnt party with us because he thought a level 43 warrior couldnt tank zf, but he's done it several times already. go figure. another guy left the group after learning that i've never been there before. lol whatever. we did pretty well but ended up not doing the entire instance. i think we stopped before the last boss. i never got to use my Mallet of ZF. =[
freeing the captives was fun. actually i thought that was the best part of the instance!

anyway... im out in outlands wondering if HFC is worth doing. also, i have a buncha quests for sunken temple. is it worth it to do? i've seen videos on sunken temple and it looks like a totally awesome instance. i'm just a little wary of finding another pug. =\

what about doing it with my guild? as for my guild, it has about 50 members, with about 15-20 of them being alts of other members, so technically, about 30-35 real people... most of which are not on when im on. if someone is on, they're usually a 70 doing AV or EotS. and i havent seen more than 4 people on at once in the past two months. so yea... i guess i should look for another guild. i've even been upgraded to rank 2 in my guild because no one else goes on. i liked my guild 3 months ago. but now it just seems dead. so im just doing my solo thing as best i can.

Beruen

21-03-2008, 09:41 PM

When hitting the outlands, deleting every quest that I don't have a solid reason for doing is the first thing I do. So far, I've kept the epic warlock and epic paladin mount quests and dropped everything else. There just aren't many quest rewards that don't get replaced within a level or two in the outlands.

Now, going to sunken temple just to see it might be a valid reason to go. I had seen all of the 5-man instances before the expansion came out, so I didn't have that reason to go back. Still, ST is not the place I'd want to go with a PuG.

elsegundo

21-03-2008, 10:16 PM

Phelix

23-03-2008, 05:18 PM

I hate PUGs aswell. There are way to many retards out there to even try PUGing before level 70 when you can get a ok group sometimes.

caldepen

23-03-2008, 09:26 PM

ahh, pugs are fine, just go in with a realistic level of expectations...

Jurija

24-03-2008, 01:41 AM

I just did a PuG to Steamvaults, and ended up doing it 3times in a row.
Was great fun, even though we wiped multiple times on the last run due to people being tired and sleepy.

When i first respeced to prot, at 63, i had no whatsoever experience of tanking. but before each instance i informed the group of this, and they usually forgave my inexperience.
dident take me long to get the hang of it, due to ppl being friendly and giving me pointers on what to do.
nowadays i usually group with 2 mates from my guild, and LFM the rest. has never gone wrong:)

Echosnare

24-03-2008, 04:53 AM

I'm well known in my guild for being the one person who can go into any pug and manage to find the hunter in spelldmg gear or the rogue with adhd or the prot warrior who has never heard of crit immunity.

What's been bugging me more is what some people get away with purely by everyone being too nice to say anything.
Heroic Mech everythings going ok, only a couple of stupid deaths caused by the warlock running into trash or banishing then trying to enslave while getting beat on. We get to the second boss with the flames and the running and I briefly point out a couple things I've noticed help and off we go. All die at 30% due to the warrior tank standing in elemental fire and the warlock dying early. No problem try again and this time I notice that the warlock isn't dotting and running but standing in fire casting shadowbolts we wipe at around 15%. Now I point this out to the warlock and get the usual "lolomg dont tell me how to play my class im a destro lock i dont dot"and what really pisses me off is the rest of the groups reaction of, "he knows what he should be doing you're not a lock, lets just try again" without any attempt to change anything or tweak anything.

Now I know I'm an asshat but it really annoys me when I encounter this kinda attitude. I may call people out for doing stupid things but I'm also the first to admit when its my fault and I'm generally always trying to find a solution with the rest of the party.

Like one of my favourite pugs when I ended up in kz with one tank and my pet OTing on moroes because it was the only way we could think of to save healers. I ended up guilded with those people we had such a good time.

Dakiter

24-03-2008, 09:02 PM

When I first went through this thread my recent experience of pugs were good with the level 70 instances. I had the luck of being with people who really knew what they were doing and they were a breeze.

I am currently playing a new mage who I just hit level 30 with. Every couple levels I would put up the lfg flag to try to do an instance or two and bar none these were a few of the worst groups I have ever been in!

The last one was a RFK run. We had a warlock that was constantly attacking the sheeped or sapped target. Our healer was a paladin who said he would heal since we had no other options and then proceeded to never heal unless the tank was near dead and yelling HEAL!!!! In the end the war died three times.

At the beginning the warrior and I were saying all the basic instance stuff like pass on all bops and all that star would be sheep and circle would be sap. The first blue shoulder piece that dropped would have been a big upgrade for me because of the plus damage and I pass and get ready to roll when I see the warlock hits need. I lose my mind and asked her why she did that when we asked everyone to pass and she said she didnt know what that meant so she just ignored that point of the conversation. The warrior switched it to master loot (which everyone but me and the war *****ed about) and a little while later one of the trash mobs actually dropped another blue shoulder piece that was pretty close but not as good as the ones the lock took. The warrior was in the process of telling me to take them when the lock asked why she couldnt roll!

I love doing instances the right way. Friends doing the run through is nice but having the adventure of running an instance at the right level is great but I dont think I will be doing another low level pug for a long long long time!

Ash Housewares

25-03-2008, 12:08 PM

Twoflower

25-03-2008, 12:39 PM

as if you would need to spec holy before lvl 69 to be able to heal... people who have a clue about the game can make up for alot.

Duncbag

25-03-2008, 12:55 PM

Forgive my ignorance, but what or who is a PUG?

Dakiter

25-03-2008, 01:36 PM

lowbie pugs are always rotten

but you learn things and get fun experiences like warrior tanks in leather

always expect things to be bad especially ZF and below

ST sometimes you can get a real group, but thats rare too

honestly they make it so hard to gear a healer in the lower levels, and leveling as a healer is slow, so you have everyone doing something thats offspec for them with zero talents devoted to it, and usually no experience

fury tanks and shadow/ret healers are the norm, theres gonna be ugly

I would agree with you on that one but I did a pug on my level 38 enhance shaman and was asked to heal. No one died, no one needed to scream for a heal and we rocked the instance! My problem with our paladin was dont say "I'll heal" and then not heal at all. For the first have of the instance I was out healing just by bandaging the warrior between fights.

===============

Dont want to back to back post:

duncbag - PUG stands for Pick Up Group - Its a random group of people who have never played together before making a group to do an instance or some quests together. You will see by the commentary that many folks have issues with them.

Ash Housewares

25-03-2008, 09:00 PM

as if you would need to spec holy before lvl 69 to be able to heal... people who have a clue about the game can make up for alot.

well it was that combination of factors I was talking about

tank takes more damage and causes less threat
heals take more mana and cause more threat
and the majority of the group is clueless

in the 60s and up, when you get those 5x dps groups theres better gear and more margin for error

teck21

26-03-2008, 03:43 AM

well it was that combination of factors I was talking about

tank takes more damage and causes less threat
heals take more mana and cause more threat
and the majority of the group is clueless

in the 60s and up, when you get those 5x dps groups theres better gear and more margin for error

Indeed pugging instances, especially at lower levels represent the steepest learning curve possible, and quite often the fastest way to learn is being thrown in the deep end.

Anyone who has pugged alot, and died alot with alot of bad pugs will learn alot about their class, other classes and group play in general. Unless they are stubborn as mules. :smiley:

I haven't pugged any low levels since I last leveledd my war a long time ago, but despite many poor experiences with them, I have always loved pugging with new inexperienced players in low level instances, especially SM.

I think it's great that they experience what is a very important part of the game, and I do find that most are nice and eager to learn how to play their class and have fun rather than being stubborn mules.

PS Love the name! Shop smart, shop S-Mart.