Death Knight.....Too Powerful For Its Own Good?

[Valor Angirin]

Taken from WoWWiki.com

Overview
Once certain criteria are met, players will be able to create a new death knight character, which will start at a high level. The exact level has not yet been determined, but a senior producer of Blizzard says it will be somewhere around level 60 or 70. [1][2] In a post on WoW's druid forums, Nethaera said the following:[3]

Keep in mind please that the Death Knight is a Hero class and is not dependent on the needing any other particular class to get it. You will need to at least have (at this point in time) a level 55 character in order to unlock one and play it. The details on this may all yet change.
The Death Knight is intended as an alternative, advanced class for end-game use only. The death knight combines martial prowess with dark, necromantic energies. Players might be familiar with the death knight from previously released Warcraft games -- most recently, in the campaigns for Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos and the Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne expansion, the former paladin Arthas became a death knight and wrought havoc across Azeroth before fusing with the spirit of Ner'zhul to become the Lich King. It is important to note that these particular Death Knights are based upon those created by the Lich King in Warcraft III, not those of Orcish origin as seen in WarCraft II.



Abilities
Army of the Dead - Spell summons undead minions (ghouls) to fight for Death Knight. These creatures run around and attack things at random.
Unholy Embrace - Target is embraced by a silhouette of darkness for 6 seconds, corrupting any healing spells and effects cast upon or currently affecting the target to cause damage for 50% of their healing potential instead of restoring health. Any damage shields cast upon or currently affecting the target will also be instantly consumed, dealing 50% of their absorption potential in damage. Once afflicted with Unholy Embrace, the target cannot be afflicted with Unholy Embrace again for 1 minute.
Death and Decay - An area-of-effect damage spell.[9]
Blood Boil - A damage-over-time ability that after the duration refreshes two of your blood runes.[9]
Death Coil? Bornakk commented on this:[10]
We understand that Deathcoil is a spell Deathknights had in Warcraft 3. While things may change, we simply haven’t made a final decision regarding this yet.
Miscellaneous information
Designed to fulfill both tanking and DPS roles.
Can tank without a shield, using two-handed weapons or dual-wielding. Death Knights cannot use shields.[11]
May only use bladed weapons, currently 1H and 2H swords and axes.
The term, "Hero Class", may be misleading, causing some players to believe Death Knights will be overpowered. Blizzard has stated on announcing the Death Knight that they will be of similar strength and value to existing classes.
While Death Knights will be similar to Paladins in that they are a spell-casting melee class, it is unknown whether they will use the same type of itemization. The use of the Rune system instead of Mana could very well render Intellect and Spirit useless to a Death Knight.

I think these things are tooo powerful and are going to end up getting nerfed somehow.

Any opinions on this Race/Class?

[Aerath]

My opinion:

WotLK hasn't even arrived yet, there hasn't been any final data on Death Knight.

How on earth are we supposed to call OP when we don't even know *what* it does and what the *other* classes get ?

In fact, in your post it even says that Blizzard claims they'll be of similar strength and value to existing classes. Did you even read that bit ?

[Shellar]

Well, it's more powerful than a Protoss Dragoon, but weaker than a properly built Hammerdin, so I'd say that it's pretty balanced. However, I expect that it will get nerfed once the 5th Edition of D&D comes out.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

How can something we don't know any real tangible details on yet be too powerful?

[Twoflower]

Well, it's more powerful than a Protoss Dragoon, but weaker than a properly built Hammerdin, so I'd say that it's pretty balanced. However, I expect that it will get nerfed once the 5th Edition of D&D comes out.

you shine a light into the darkest places, my friend :D

[Icefrost]

I'm guessing the thread starter has a bad general feeling about this, just like me. Something just tells me we're looking at another class that will forever be labeled "omg nerf!" by some people, similar to how warlocks are these days.

And even if we toss aside possible PvP imbalances that we don't know about yet, something gives me the feeling that feral druids and maybe some meleeing shamans, save for a few top ones, will be once again "banned" from raids as soon as death knights get geared. This coming from the fact that every time I see info about the new class, the only bit of it that seems to be included in every place and thus seems most credible, is the "will be melee dps/tanking capable" -bit.

But maybe it's just me. Go figure.

[Leviathonlx]

I wouldn't go by what Blizzard said about a class back at Blizzcon when half that info has since changed more than likely. It's pretty dumb at least in my opinion to start calling things overpowered before a beta has even begun let alone any recent information.

[Katrala]

Although I do realize that the expansion hasn't even reached beta yet, I have thought about Death Knights being OP.

Both of my main toons are tanks and since tanking is what I enjoy most in PvE, I do wonder if the introduction of this class will overpower current tanking classes.

Of course, I also dread constant "DK LFG" spam from everyone "trying one out."

[TPMdm]

Taken from WoWWiki.com

Note: not taken from Blizzard.com

(snip)
The details on this may all yet change.
(snip)


The above doesn't apply to just the lvl requirements to unlock a DK and it's starting lvl.


Abilities
Army of the Dead - Spell summons undead minions (ghouls) to fight for Death Knight. These creatures run around and attack things at random.
Unholy Embrace - Target is embraced by a silhouette of darkness for 6 seconds, corrupting any healing spells and effects cast upon or currently affecting the target to cause damage for 50% of their healing potential instead of restoring health. Any damage shields cast upon or currently affecting the target will also be instantly consumed, dealing 50% of their absorption potential in damage. Once afflicted with Unholy Embrace, the target cannot be afflicted with Unholy Embrace again for 1 minute.
Death and Decay - An area-of-effect damage spell.[9]
Blood Boil - A damage-over-time ability that after the duration refreshes two of your blood runes.[9]
Death Coil? Bornakk commented on this:[10]
We understand that Deathcoil is a spell Deathknights had in Warcraft 3. While things may change, we simply haven’t made a final decision regarding this yet.
Miscellaneous information
Designed to fulfill both tanking and DPS roles.
Can tank without a shield, using two-handed weapons or dual-wielding. Death Knights cannot use shields.[11]
May only use bladed weapons, currently 1H and 2H swords and axes.
The term, "Hero Class", may be misleading, causing some players to believe Death Knights will be overpowered. Blizzard has stated on announcing the Death Knight that they will be of similar strength and value to existing classes.
While Death Knights will be similar to Paladins in that they are a spell-casting melee class, it is unknown whether they will use the same type of itemization. The use of the Rune system instead of Mana could very well render Intellect and Spirit useless to a Death Knight.

I think these things are tooo powerful and are going to end up getting nerfed somehow.

Any opinions on this Race/Class?

None of the above abilities really make me think op. In fact I'm thinking there's going to be a lot more cheese. Remember blizzard has admitted to buffing chars in order to get people to play them more. Are they really going to have to buff DK's to get people to play them? I have a feeling aside from "being the first to 80" that "first to unlock a DK" will be one of the most sought after titles when WotLK comes out (followed by first to lvl a DK to 80). Blizzard could unlock lvl 0 Goblins with no abilities and people would rush to get one. Blizzard is usually pretty cautious and I assume most of the DK's abilities are basically reskinning existing skills:

Army of The Dead = Snake trap
Unholy Embrace = there's a couple "reduces healing on target" skills take your pick
Death and Decay = any of a baker's dozen other AOE damage spell
Blood Boil = another DoT
Death Coil = Death Coil

I want one, I wouldn't want to replace my main with one(I know, you don't have to).... sounds like fun, doesn't sound op in the slightest.

[det]

Isn't the DK supposed to be a non-shield / 2 hand weapon only class? In that way it might make it a jack of all trades but master of none. Kinda like a battle mage of the Dark Arts...suited as OT and support dps....

Dunno...We incorporated all sorts of classes and speccs into our raid: Resto and enhancement shammys, holy and prot Pallys, destro and afflocks, ferals and resto druids, dps and prot warriors, holy and shadowpriests...I am sure we manage to squeeze a DK in^^

[Leviathonlx]

Isn't the DK supposed to be a non-shield / 2 hand weapon only class? In that way it might make it a jack of all trades but master of none. Kinda like a battle mage of the Dark Arts...suited as OT and support dps....

Dunno...We incorporated all sorts of classes and speccs into our raid: Resto and enhancement shammys, holy and prot Pallys, destro and afflocks, ferals and resto druids, dps and prot warriors, holy and shadowpriests...I am sure we manage to squeeze a DK in^^

They will be a tank/dps class that tanks with a 2 handed runeblade yes.

[mesonm]

nerf warlocks

[MrBCorp]

nerf warlocks

And Rogues.


That -healing spell sounds a bit OP. Not only does it not let the healing spell do its thing, it does half the potential healing as damage. (!)

[Lothaer]

I want one, I wouldn't want to replace my main with one(I know, you don't have to).... sounds like fun, doesn't sound op in the slightest.

although ill probably get a DK i a more interested in a Healing Heroic class, maybe a monk... you know a combat healer that wears cloth and can slap the **** out of a rogue :)

[thorleader]

although ill probably get a DK i a more interested in a Healing Heroic class, maybe a monk... you know a combat healer that wears cloth and can slap the **** out of a rogue :)

I would pay hella monies for that...
The'll be OP, then nerfed, then nerfed some more.
/sigh

I still want one

[Lothaer]

I would pay hella monies for that...
The'll be OP, then nerfed, then nerfed some more.
/sigh

I still want one

and they'll still be OP even after all the nerfs MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[thorleader]

which is why I want one
I will "Get it. Use It. Master It"

[det]

I am really looking forward to the new class and to what Blizzard is gonna do with it. They have not disappointed me with any of their decisons - even when everybody whined and cried, changes have pretty much always benefited the gameplay.

So, yeah....if they introduce a hero class, there needs to be something special about it that is...um...special, but not overpowered. Otherwise it is just another class. Certainly a challenge.

[Icefrost]

So, yeah....if they introduce a hero class, there needs to be something special about it that is...um...special, but not overpowered. Otherwise it is just another class. Certainly a challenge.

I think it's special enough when 50% of most realm's simultaneously online population are all Death Knights.:tongue:

[Lobothomy]

Tanking without a shield.... Like OT or MT? Because as a rogue im dreading the thought of DK plate that has enough armor to be able to tank without a shield.

[PlayThemAll]

Nerf Murlocks, everything else is fine.

[Dakiter]

How in the hell are we suppost to vote on a class that is not even released yet? Ever single thing you listed is still speculation and could be changed.

I want to try one. I think it sounds like a lot of fun.

Not to flame ya kid but this post seems like a preemptive whaaa thread. Something for you to point to months from now and say "See I told you they would be OP!!!!"

[Morollan]

I can't seem to find the poll option for "Who knows?" which I presume is an oversight on the OP's part, bearing in mind that the Death Knight is not even remotely close to release, even on the test realms, and almost nothing is known about any specifics of how it will work.

[Dhoum]

I can't seem to find the poll option for "Who knows?"

I agree, so I voted "who gives a crud".

My prediction, for what it's worth, is that they will be very pretty to look at ... beyond that, who knows?

[det]

I think it's special enough when 50% of most realm's simultaneously online population are all Death Knights.:tongue:

Pretty much like the BE invasion with TBC, but that has evened itself out :)

Maybe we do see parties of 5 DK hitting Instances, but maybe people will be too busy first levelling their characters to 70. Many will notice it is not "their" class.

I say there is a 99.99% chance that raids of 25 BKs won't work, so the raidleaders and/or their close friends get to bring one to the raid, the rest will just have to stick to solo play.

Maybe DKs cannot have professions. Maybe DKs get quests that can only be done with other DKs....maybe, maybe, maybe.

Actually fun to speculate :)

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Even if we knew everything there was to know about DK's, we still can't call them OP because we don't know what everyone else will have at lv80.

Maybe druids can become blue whales. Maybe paladins get a holy bazooka or rogues get kevlar vests to counter the DK's bladed weapons.

It could happen.

[Valas Azuviir]

Maybe paladins get a holy bazooka

It could happen.

Shouldn't that be the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch??

[Chiller_babe]

I say there is a 99.99% chance that raids of 25 BKs won't work,



Going to have vaguely disturbing dreams of 25 Burger King Whoppers taking on Onyxia......

Flame grilled just how you like it!

[Findariel]

A bit premature to say anything about DKs I think .. but we'll see!
I'm actually more interested on how they will look and feel than how OP they will be.

[Lothaer]

i believe that the Hero classes SHOULD be harder to kill than the other classes but not like OMG this lvl 60 DK just WTFPWNED my 80 Priest.

[xDarkDrifterx]

LOL!!!!!!!!1!!!!!

This is freaking classic . . . an OP / Nerf thread about a class that hasn't even hit the PTR's yet . . . :laughing:

__________


In fact, in your post it even says that Blizzard claims they'll be of similar strength and value to existing classes.
Did you even read that bit ?

I was thinking the same thing.

__________

IMO


Army of The Dead = A Druids Treants (Summoned with Force of Nature)

[swaldman]

And Rogues.


That -healing spell sounds a bit OP. Not only does it not let the healing spell do its thing, it does half the potential healing as damage. (!)

In the spirit of unfounded speculation, because it's fun, let's think about this ability. You actually forgot about the (IMHO) far more important aspect of this:

It instantly dispells any damage shield. That's PW:S, Mana Shield... maybe pally bubbles?

For PvE, that breaks one of Blizzard's favourite boss mechanics of TBC. Since they're not notable for throwing away and never using again any boss mechanics, I'm guessing that bosses would be immune to this spell. Which makes it a whole lot less useful.

For PvP... well in the great rock/paper/scissors of WoW, I'm thinking that DKs will be bad for healers :-)

Anyway. We'll see :-)

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

i believe that the Hero classes SHOULD be harder to kill than the other classes but not like OMG this lvl 60 DK just WTFPWNED my 80 Priest.

The Hero Classes are to be balanced with the other classes. They are no more or less powerful (according to Blizzard). But, they are different, have an Epic feel to them, and are something unique. But they can easily be all of those things, and still be balanced with the other classes.

[Shellar]

Tanking without a shield.... Like OT or MT? Because as a rogue im dreading the thought of DK plate that has enough armor to be able to tank without a shield.
Druids can tank without a shield.

[thorleader]

Going to have vaguely disturbing dreams of 25 Burger King Whoppers taking on Onyxia......

Flame grilled just how you like it!

you actually made me laugh. like really hard.
I kept thinking about deep breath and then choking on fries
cause of the King

[Zulran]

All I see is a possible tank/DPS class without group healing capabilities. Nothing OP about it.

I think Blizzard is trying to attack a fundimental flaw with tanking at the moment - it's a job that only a small, small amount of people genuinely like to do. It takes a similar personality of a healer - that genuine desire to limit your own power for the benefit of the whole... only coupled with acceptance of complete PvP inviability, as well as a willingness to pay the most for your repairs... and build 4 or more gear sets in order to be able to do your job vs. various boss - IE: Try tanking Hydrosis without +Frost Resistance.

All in all, I do my part as a healer - and I sure as hell don't envy the tank's job. I think Death Knight will be accompanied by a line of buffs to Prot Warriors/Pallys that will basically increase their damage and/or PvP viability, so tanking spec are more desired on the whole.

[caldepen]

How can something we don't know any real tangible details on yet be too powerful?

Wait are you talking about DK's or God?

[thorleader]

Wait are you talking about DK's or God?

please, noone take this and run.

And I'm thinking of them In a modified tank/fury warr type thing, with lockish abilities
Is that totaly off base?

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

please, noone take this and run.

And I'm thinking of them In a modified tank/fury warr type thing, with lockish abilities
Is that totaly off base?

UI'd say it is a gross generalization, and without knowing any specifics about the class, you could be accurate, or way off base. Rather than attempting to force the DK into being something it may not be, why don't we just wait and see what Blizz has to offer. I'd expect more information should start flowing shortly after 2.4 gets released.

[PlayThemAll]

At least the DK's will start at a high enough level that they will be able to bracnh out and quest. The beginning area's for BE's and Draenei were horrible during the weeks after TBC came out. It took hours just to get out of the zones because there were too many people competing with too few mobs.

Regardless of whether or not they over/under powered or totally balanced, I forsee a lot of people playing them, at least initially, just because its an alt that is complately different (I hope) different and does not need to be leveled from 1-80.

[Cembrelise]

Something earlier in the thread caught my eye.

OP or not, balanced or not, seems like DK is going to be the badboy/girl of WoW. It would be nice to see a good balance thing going on of another hero class showing up at some point to really provide a good counter to it - basically take the opposite of what they can do, turn it into healing/cloth, and all that junk. Strange as it may sound it just feels odd to have this single 'evil'-ish sounding class without a 'pure' counter. Like Super Best Friends Healers without a lame name as I just suggested. :laugh:

Yin and yang?

[swaldman]

Strange as it may sound it just feels odd to have this single 'evil'-ish sounding class without a 'pure' counter.

Let's call it... a paladin? :-)
(I jest, but death knights are basically anti-paladins, aren't they...)

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

Something earlier in the thread caught my eye.

OP or not, balanced or not, seems like DK is going to be the badboy/girl of WoW. It would be nice to see a good balance thing going on of another hero class showing up at some point to really provide a good counter to it - basically take the opposite of what they can do, turn it into healing/cloth, and all that junk. Strange as it may sound it just feels odd to have this single 'evil'-ish sounding class without a 'pure' counter. Like Super Best Friends Healers without a lame name as I just suggested. :laugh:

Yin and yang?

And the Warlock's counter is.....?

Honestly, the Death Knight's counter is kinda obvious (at least to me): Paladins. That is the one that jumps out to me as the most obvious opposite, from an RPG standpoint.

That said, the DK, like others have pointed out, is a DPS & Tank "hybrid". It appears that the DK is *very* restricted on what kind of weapons that class can use (2-handed runeblades, something not even in the game at this time), has no shields, but wears plate. It appears that the class has a defensive/protection kind of tree/abilities, one that seems to deal with melee/DPS abilities, and one that is their spells (another DPS variety).

It appears that there are three kinds of runes that can fit in up to 6 slots, different allotments of these runes in those slots give access to (and restricts access from) certain abilities. Almost suggesting that the DK will be an extremely configurable class, gaining certain probably quite impressive abilities at the expense of others.

It appears that the class will have some odd disease-like DoTs. And at least some fun with temporary combat pets... summoning armies of the dead and such to their aid.

It appears that it will be unlikely that you'll see a single DK doing all of these various things in a single fight.... since it appears runes can't be changed out on their blade while in combat. But it does appear that changing out runes for different situations will be somewhat key to the class. Allowing for a wide array of functionality, only restricting to a subset of it based on rune allocation on the blade.

It also should be noted that the class looks to be made for all races. It also looks to be that Blizzard wants the starting characters to be between 55 - 70. Why so low as 55? Well, there is a pair of convenient Scourge-themed zones in Azeroth that are available: the Plaguelands. There was a thought/idea presented in an article/interview about the Death Knight suggesting the idea that the first thing the Death Kinght characters may have to face, is a sort of solo-instance version of Stratholme, and escaping from it... which would fit inthe level 55 - 60 range (gasp! Blizzard revamping/reusing old content in new ways!) Also, there seems to be some kind of quest series that an existing character does to "unlock" the ability to make a Death Knight.

Combine those ideas together, and you have potentially a quest series which the conclusion of it, might "free" a Death Knight from the control of the Lich King -- making that player be able to make a Death Knight character (the "freed" Death Knight). Then, when starting that Death Knight, the character, now "freed" from the Lich King's control, has to escape from his/her former comrades (the Scourge). All in all an epic kind of idea which links two characters on one account together in a sense.

Then let's think.... what about the Death Knight's class trainers. As a Hero Class... I'd say there is not necessarily any reason for the class trainers to have to exist in the major cities. In fact, I personally (and this is pure speculation) would expect they aren't. I'd almost expect that the Death Knight class trainers are hiding out in various parts (namely higher-level old world zones) of the world. There may be a little bit of travel required for this class.

Another speculation is I'd almost expect to see the Death Knight have its own class-based land mount, like the Warlock and Paladin. Probably comes equipped with the level 40-equivalent one, might need to do a quest to get the level 60 "epic" one. Might need to actually pay for the mount skill however, and just do the quest to get the mount itself (ala the Epic Flight Form for Druids)... as Blizzard seems to have liked how that works better than how the Paladin and Warlock method currently works.

But, all in all, I'd say there is no cause to believe the Death Knight is too powerful, or over-powered. I don't see why there needs to be a compulsive symmetry with regards to there being a opposite for the Death Knight (there is no opposite for the Warlock), but if there was an opposite, I'd expect it would be the Paladin as the most obvious, blatant choice for such a thing.

Mind you,e verything, and anything known about the Death Knight right now, is completely subject to change. There is no Beta yet, it is Alpha-state code at best, and could have sweeping alterations to the class long before launch. Speculations are worth the price they cost... which while people can make guesses, without any real concrete information from Blizzard (which won't happen until they are ready for it to happen), it all could amount to nothing.

[Shellar]

On the subject of tanking raidbosses with a 2-Hander... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XfewXFKNpM)

[Leviathonlx]

On the subject of tanking raidbosses with a 2-Hander... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XfewXFKNpM)

Well there is a big difference between the 10 man instances and bosses in the 25 mans like Illidan (which you can't do without a shield). :p

A Death Knight will basically be like a druid and probably rely on other stats to make up for the lack of block or Blizzard will make their Runeblades be for blocking also. Guess its one of those things we won't know for sure for a while still.

[TPMdm]

.....
Guess its one of those things we won't know for sure for a while still.
Quoted for f-ing TRUTH. Pretty much sums up this entire thread and poll

[WatcherZero]

meh, I see 3 strategies for their dmg reduction:

Being undead they get extra % from armor to make up for loss of sheild
Theyll have a really high parry chance, equivalent to a druids dodge
Theyll be a specialist anti-caster tank, having more dmg reduction from magic than the others.

[Tanitha]

The term, "Hero Class", may be misleading, causing some players to believe Death Knights will be overpowered. Blizzard has stated on announcing the Death Knight that they will be of similar strength and value to existing classes.

My answer is multipart. Part of it is as you quoted - they will likely balance the class in playtesting. As is wont to happen, players will find combinations that make the class very powerful and as players explore the group dynamics you will likely see Blizzard adjust and tweak it as necessary - that's simply part of MMO and online, changing gameplay.

The second part is this - it's not been played yet by the general populace. Until such a time it is very difficult to make any kind of informed judgement.

[LunarSolaris]

The class so far sounds like the closest thing to the Necromancer from D2, which was my favorite class. I would definitely want to be unlocking one to play it.

[Dakiter]

They have already mentioned that they are looking at another Hero class that is based more on the druids.

This is probably the one tankish class I am looking forward to playing. I will be searching for that quest to unlock as soon as I can. I see an undead DK in my future!

The reasoning listed about about starting at level 55 is very reasonable. I think its a great way to refesh some of the old world content that was blown away when the outlands showed up.

[Strongwind]

I agree it a little too early to discuss whether DK's are overpowered, but the only way the WoW community would scream nerf DK's is if one entered PVP and/or Arena and starts one-shotting full prot warriors/paladins.

In that sense, make DK's uber-powerful, but limited them to DK-only PVP and Arena events.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

They have already mentioned that they are looking at another Hero class that is based more on the druids.

No, that was speculation on the part of the article's author, not something actually stated by someone from Blizzard.

meh, I see 3 strategies for their dmg reduction:

Being undead they get extra % from armor to make up for loss of sheild
Theyll have a really high parry chance, equivalent to a druids dodge
Theyll be a specialist anti-caster tank, having more dmg reduction from magic than the others.

Option 4 I can think of is that they have a certain rune configuration they can use that when it does, it gives access to possibly a passive ability that grants them additional armor.

[Dakiter]

xlorep is right. I should have remember that!

[ZaxGreia]

meh, I see 3 strategies for their dmg reduction:

Being undead they get extra % from armor to make up for loss of sheild
Theyll have a really high parry chance, equivalent to a druids dodge
Theyll be a specialist anti-caster tank, having more dmg reduction from magic than the others.
Option 4 I can think of is that they have a certain rune configuration they can use that when it does, it gives access to possibly a passive ability that grants them additional armor.
Note that druids don't automatically start with a really high dodge rating - that mostly comes through gear. The biggest thing druids have is armor. I'm guessing their mitigation will be the following:

1. High parry - through talents and itemization
2. High dodge - also through talents and itemization (stacking agi ftw)
3. Almost certainly will have some kind of rune combo that gives extra armor, parry, or dodge to further enhance mitigation (and drive the theorycrafters crazy trying to figure out the formulas).
4. Would be cool if they could have a talent or ability that would increase resistance to magic of a certain school, or even of all schools - would make them very popular for some tanking assignments.

The way I see this working for gear is they wouldn't be OP, anymore than druids are OP - they'll work very similarly to druids in how they mitigate damage, though they'll generate aggro like a cross between paladins and druids (mana-based attacks and dps-type abilities), and they'll rely on parry instead of massive armor ratings.

From a gear/stat perspective, I'm guessing DK tanking gear will be int/agi plate, unless they don't use mana. Otherwise they'll be agi/str for extra dps. This means they'll probably be able to PvP and tank in the same spec, though not as well as a true dps spec.

I guess this means I think they'll be druids with no extra armor, but parry to make up for it, with a bunch of cool new abilities redressed in DK-style for coolness. Honestly, I can't think of a cooler new class, and I'm really excited to tank an instance with one :)

[Aerath]

No, that was speculation on the part of the article's author, not something actually stated by someone from Blizzard.

It was mentioned by a blue - possibly Kalgan or in a Blizzcom Podcast.

Though they only mentioned that they'd 'like' such a hero class and weren't at all certain yet about how to implement it.

Can't remember exactly where it was mentioned, but it didn't drop out of thin air.

[det]

Actually it should be interesting to see the distictive look on them, especially if all races can be a Deathknight. Ok, so making humans look a bit zombielike is one thing, but giving that look to an already rotting Undead? You wanna be able to spot these guys from afar and know what you are dealing with, I guess.

Plus a special class mount should come with the package...epic riding and flying of course :)

[mesonm]

I can't believe that we are already exploring whether a class that isn't even released is overpowered....

Peeps need to get out more....

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

It was mentioned by a blue - possibly Kalgan or in a Blizzcom Podcast.

Though they only mentioned that they'd 'like' such a hero class and weren't at all certain yet about how to implement it.

Can't remember exactly where it was mentioned, but it didn't drop out of thin air.

Actually, no. It was mentioned as an idea from the article author of a Jeff Kaplan interview:

"While originally we planned for characters to become Death Knights, we felt that players shouldn't be required to lose the character they've played for so long," explains Kaplan.

"Instead, we're looking at how we can involve players in the story of freeing a Death Knight from the Lich King's grasp through a quest chain. Once complete, this will allow a player to create new high-level Death Knight characters."

What's more, with any luck, we'll see more Hero classes some time after release, the hot Zitron tip being some kind of Archdruid quest directly connected to Malfurion Stormrage and the much-anticipated Emerald Dream.

Source (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=181521).

This is something the author of the article and interviewer, Ed Zitron suggested as an idea. Nothing stated from anyone at Blizzard.

[Janfader]

Why even bother with these stupid new classes/races??? Really, if you think about it, it will screw a lot of things up, piss people off (like me).

Why can't Blizzard just offer a quest per class/spec to obtain a title once they have completed it. A solo quest and a group quest. Each quest offering a trinket* (or whatever) to symbolize a "high powered" item.

Solo Quest Reward: An item to help you significantly on a one vs one challenge.
Group Quest Reward: An item to help you significanly on a mulitple foe encounter.

And have BG's with only grand master titles playable once they have their item.

I fear the worst if Blizzard incorporates this stupid death knight crap.

[det]

Nah...It will work. How many years since Diablo 1? And everything they did gets my thumbs up overall.

BTW, when Diablo 1 came out I was like: "No way in hell I am gonna buy Windows 95 just to run a stupid game. My DOS runs fine"

Don't be afraid of change...you sound like all the peeps who freaked out when Horde got Pallys and Alliance got Shammys....

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

Why even bother with these stupid new classes/races??? Really, if you think about it, it will screw a lot of things up, piss people off (like me).

Why can't Blizzard just offer a quest per class/spec to obtain a title once they have completed it. A solo quest and a group quest. Each quest offering a trinket* (or whatever) to symbolize a "high powered" item.

Solo Quest Reward: An item to help you significantly on a one vs one challenge.
Group Quest Reward: An item to help you significanly on a mulitple foe encounter.

And have BG's with only grand master titles playable once they have their item.

I fear the worst if Blizzard incorporates this stupid death knight crap.

It is a standard thing to make an MMO more attractive as time progresses. New races, new classes. More options for people to pick from. That is very appealing to players.

[Naolin]

Deff night will be overpowered in the eyes of every other class out there, but in reality every class is overpowered in every other class its eyes.

[Janfader]

It is a standard thing to make an MMO more attractive as time progresses. New races, new classes. More options for people to pick from. That is very appealing to players.

I understand all of that. But the whole thing about having a lvl 55 toon to get one and all the crap accosiated with the DK is becoming stupid.

I'm still for the whole Monk class/race. A clothie fighter capable of abilities to pin down, sumitt his enemies to inact until they can break the hold or until the Monk lets off. A great way to CC etc... Fist weapons only with abilities to kick, spins, etc...

Anyways.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Monks should have a combat staff or maybe some nunchucks.

[Janfader]

Monks should have a combat staff or maybe some nunchucks.

Indeed! Thought that after I posted.

What Blizzard should do to silience their critics is to release a bunch of new classes/races to appeal to everyone. Hell, even incorperate a class that uses dance moves... :wave: I'm just sick of the crap Death Knight BS.

[PlayThemAll]

Hell, even incorperate a class that uses dance moves... :wave: I'm just sick of the crap Death Knight BS.

I can see the talent tree. Break'n, Ballroom or ????. Maybe a DDR gamepad.

You can tell your enemies they've been served and have a dance off. :laughing:

The DK idea doesn't do that much for me other than the fact that it will start at a high level.. Given the amount of hype, I just hope its not a total let down.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

I understand all of that. But the whole thing about having a lvl 55 toon to get one and all the crap accosiated with the DK is becoming stupid.

What you call stupid, I call creative, interesting, and helps set the class aside as something different. The idea that you would potentially have a sort of "storyline link" between two characters on your account is brilliant, as far as I'm concerned. The idea that you don't lose your existing character, but instead get another one at a certain level is cool too.

Let's be honest.... it isn't hard to get to level 55. It also does not take much time any more to do this since 2.3. Now, it does take a modicum of dedication to that character to level him or her that high, but once that is done, you can end up with two characters (for the price of one!)

Then, to have the idea be something akin to with your existing character, you do a quest series to "free" a Death Knight from the Lich King's control, and then that Death Knight has to potentially do a sort of solo instance run to escape from the Scourge... that's just all kinds of cool in my book.

What Blizzard should do to silience their critics is to release a bunch of new classes/races to appeal to everyone.

Can't appease everyone. After all, Blizzard is slowly releasing new classes and races. But some people get upset at the very notion of their existence. Like you and the DK, for example.

Hell, even incorperate a class that uses dance moves... :wave: I'm just sick of the crap Death Knight BS.

What DK BS? Just because the class is a new one coming in the expansion, and therefore is getting the limelight, as much as the Blood Elves and Draenei got the limelight while TBC was under development? Wow... it's a class that is new and being developed, and is the first of the "Hero Classes" to be added to the game. Imagine that.... I wonder why people are talking about it ::rolleyes::

[Janfader]

What you call stupid, I call creative, interesting, and helps set the class aside as something different. The idea that you would potentially have a sort of "storyline link" between two characters on your account is brilliant, as far as I'm concerned. The idea that you don't lose your existing character, but instead get another one at a certain level is cool too.

Let's be honest.... it isn't hard to get to level 55. It also does not take much time any more to do this since 2.3. Now, it does take a modicum of dedication to that character to level him or her that high, but once that is done, you can end up with two characters (for the price of one!)

Then, to have the idea be something akin to with your existing character, you do a quest series to "free" a Death Knight from the Lich King's control, and then that Death Knight has to potentially do a sort of solo instance run to escape from the Scourge... that's just all kinds of cool in my book.



Can't appease everyone. After all, Blizzard is slowly releasing new classes and races. But some people get upset at the very notion of their existence. Like you and the DK, for example.



What DK BS? Just because the class is a new one coming in the expansion, and therefore is getting the limelight, as much as the Blood Elves and Draenei got the limelight while TBC was under development? Wow... it's a class that is new and being developed, and is the first of the "Hero Classes" to be added to the game. Imagine that.... I wonder why people are talking about it ::rolleyes::

I understand talk, discusion, pro's and con's etc... about the death knight - it's in NO way close to comparison regarding the BE's, Dranie. The DK is handed out to a lvl 55+ player... I'm sorry... Rust and BS comes to mind on that fact.

I helped in some game developments, ideas and codes for friends for school projects... the way this DK is being implemented is garbage let alone hero classes. Just thinking about it makes me want to quit WoW for good. Blizzard is coming to a screeming end IMO. I say this is to boost up users for the up and coming movie - marketing scheme.

The way things are right now in WoW are fine. Make the cap to 80, but don't screw around with all this none-sense. Death Knight... yeah I'll be glad when I put one out of their misery.

Maybe Blizzard should have a new product where they sell lvl 55 starting characters??? I'm sorry, I really don't see the point in this DK. And I understand other people's takes on it - as it hasn't been released. But all the hype, talk is making the DK (in my mind) a complete utter disgrace to WoW. Just let my Lock become something extraordinary at 80. Let Warriors become the Death Knights or corrupted Paladins - through a cool story line.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

I'm sorry, but I think the closest comparison still for the Hero Classes is something like a "Prestige Class" in D&D 3.5e. It is something for higher levels. Only, rather than a character transforming into a Death Knight, Blizzard has it unlockable, so then you have the choice of playing your existing character *or* the Death Knight (since you can't play two characters son a single account simultaneously). I find it highly unlikely that this will end WoW, or Blizzard. I think it has the potential of really adding a lot to the game, and allow for significant expansion on ideas that weren't as good for lower levels.

Now.... they aren't selling level 55 starting characters. You still HAVE to have a level 55+ character to get a Death Knight. It isn't like someone buys WoW, TBC, and WotLK, then jumps in as a Death Knight...

That said, it does appear you have a [seemingly irrational] personal grudge against the DK class. So, you are looking for faults/hangups you have. Your fear almost seems to be equivalent to those who fear the unknown. Since there is little to no info about the Death Knight, and there is no way to, with any certainty, predict what the class will do to a server's function, or how it impacts other classes, it seems you've taken an extremist approach to not want to have anything to do with it.

Once again, I'm left with the comparison to the Blood Elf and the Draenei. Why? Because they brought something similar... another unknown factor. Blood Elf Paladins or Draenei Shamans... people were ranting about those two much like you seem to be ranting about the Death Knight. Yet, I don't see the game being destroyed by the inclusion of all 9 classes on both factions now. It hasn't become "watered down" or "useless". If anything, the situation has improved, especially for those two classes.

The inclusion of a new Tank class is not a bad thing. There is a shortage of tanks in the game anyway. The level 55+ starting level for it, might make the class more appealing to people who *already have a high-level character*, thus, there might be a number of them at high level early, so that their tanking ability could be used in Northrend/level 80 sooner. From a mechanical standpoint... who cares if they start level 55? What would be the *point* of making them start level 1, other than forcing people to have to grind out, yet again, levels 1 - 55? Honestly, I think you might just have a bit of jealousy, or maybe even a sense of entitlement that is getting placed into doubt just on that very notion.

[Janfader]

I'm sorry, but I think the closest comparison still for the Hero Classes is something like a "Prestige Class" in D&D 3.5e. It is something for higher levels. Only, rather than a character transforming into a Death Knight, Blizzard has it unlockable, so then you have the choice of playing your existing character *or* the Death Knight (since you can't play two characters son a single account simultaneously). I find it highly unlikely that this will end WoW, or Blizzard. I think it has the potential of really adding a lot to the game, and allow for significant expansion on ideas that weren't as good for lower levels.

Now.... they aren't selling level 55 starting characters. You still HAVE to have a level 55+ character to get a Death Knight. It isn't like someone buys WoW, TBC, and WotLK, then jumps in as a Death Knight...

That said, it does appear you have a [seemingly irrational] personal grudge against the DK class. So, you are looking for faults/hangups you have. Your fear almost seems to be equivalent to those who fear the unknown. Since there is little to no info about the Death Knight, and there is no way to, with any certainty, predict what the class will do to a server's function, or how it impacts other classes, it seems you've taken an extremist approach to not want to have anything to do with it.

Once again, I'm left with the comparison to the Blood Elf and the Draenei. Why? Because they brought something similar... another unknown factor. Blood Elf Paladins or Draenei Shamans... people were ranting about those two much like you seem to be ranting about the Death Knight. Yet, I don't see the game being destroyed by the inclusion of all 9 classes on both factions now. It hasn't become "watered down" or "useless". If anything, the situation has improved, especially for those two classes.

The inclusion of a new Tank class is not a bad thing. There is a shortage of tanks in the game anyway. The level 55+ starting level for it, might make the class more appealing to people who *already have a high-level character*, thus, there might be a number of them at high level early, so that their tanking ability could be used in Northrend/level 80 sooner. From a mechanical standpoint... who cares if they start level 55? What would be the *point* of making them start level 1, other than forcing people to have to grind out, yet again, levels 1 - 55? Honestly, I think you might just have a bit of jealousy, or maybe even a sense of entitlement that is getting placed into doubt just on that very notion.


Yeah ok, I have a fear for the unknown??? lol - ok Mr. assumptions.

My beef with this DK is that it will draw more of my hard earned money into playing another class/race. Let's face it, I love to play my alts and WoW. But it's getting quit rediculos. Blizzard should incorperate this DK into a Warrior, Paladin story line at lvl 80 let alone any other class that wants a "new" title. Every spec/majority talent tree should have a quest line to segragate into a cool class (like your new boyfriend the DK). Simply throwing up a new class at lvl 55 is just well.. I have said many times.

[swaldman]

My beef with this DK is that it will draw more of my hard earned money into playing another class/race.

Ah - so you are trying to give up WoW, and thus are against any changes being made which make the game better and make you want to spend more time on it? Or have I misunderstood?


Let's face it, I love to play my alts and WoW. But it's getting quit rediculos. Blizzard should incorperate this DK into a Warrior, Paladin story line at lvl 80 let alone any other class that wants a "new" title. Every spec/majority talent tree should have a quest line to segragate into a cool class (like your new boyfriend the DK).

I believe Blizzard have stated at some point that they considered just this, and then decided on the current format for Hero classes instead.


Simply throwing up a new class at lvl 55 is just well.. I have said many times.

...have you? I've seen a lot of ranting about how it is "BS"[1], but I've yet to see what your objection is. Can you explain?



[1] Blacksmithing?

[Tanitha]

My beef with this DK is that it will draw more of my hard earned money into playing another class/race. Let's face it, I love to play my alts and WoW. But it's getting quit rediculos.

/lol - your personal predilection for playing alts does not make the DK too powerful or bad, you know? :grin:

But I'm in the same boat - I have no idea how I will afford the time to play a Death Knight. And quite frankly, I'm not sure I will. Log onto Moonguard and see all the Blood Elves. All unique little snowflakes. I don't want to be just another snow ... Death Knight.

I'd rather stick to my Warlock. I might be the last one on the realm while everybody else rolls Death Knights :grin:

Blizzard should incorperate this DK into a Warrior, Paladin story line at lvl 80 let alone any other class that wants a "new" title.

That is a closer match to a Prestige Class, in which you begin taking levels once you meet the requirement for it. This would have been my personally preferred method of incorporating Hero classes, by adding Hero Classes on-top of your existing classes. (70-80, 80-90, 90-100 = Death Knight / Arch Mage / Necromancer / etc.)

The only problem with that approach? What happens if you try it and it sucks. You do not have the 1-20 chance to try the class without losing much. You'd lose all the work you put into your 70.

And that would blow monkey chunks.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

Yeah ok, I have a fear for the unknown??? lol - ok Mr. assumptions.

My beef with this DK is that it will draw more of my hard earned money into playing another class/race. Let's face it, I love to play my alts and WoW. But it's getting quit rediculos. Blizzard should incorperate this DK into a Warrior, Paladin story line at lvl 80 let alone any other class that wants a "new" title. Every spec/majority talent tree should have a quest line to segragate into a cool class (like your new boyfriend the DK). Simply throwing up a new class at lvl 55 is just well.. I have said many times.

Ok, so you hate change then. Or rather, you hate that it would somehow obligate you to playing another character then.

You know.... Blizzard actually looked at makig it talent-tree focused. That was extensively talked about at Blizzcon, and was one of the original directions that they looked at. It also was eventually discarded because 1) there was no way to reverse the decision -- what if you didn't want to be a DK any more?, and 2) it made the Hero Classes become little more than watered down, limited versions of existing classes, and they have this focus on what was called "concentrated coolness", which would have been lost. Some talent trees map well to a Hero Class.... others, not so much. So what for those? Would those just be "useless, unwanted trees?" -- or would even more watered-down versions of an existing class take place?

[Janfader]

Ok, so you hate change then. Or rather, you hate that it would somehow obligate you to playing another character then.

You know.... Blizzard actually looked at makig it talent-tree focused. That was extensively talked about at Blizzcon, and was one of the original directions that they looked at. It also was eventually discarded because 1) there was no way to reverse the decision -- what if you didn't want to be a DK any more?, and 2) it made the Hero Classes become little more than watered down, limited versions of existing classes, and they have this focus on what was called "concentrated coolness", which would have been lost. Some talent trees map well to a Hero Class.... others, not so much. So what for those? Would those just be "useless, unwanted trees?" -- or would even more watered-down versions of an existing class take place?

Still Mr. Assumption? Maybe you should try not assuming ok. :flowers: I don't judge you, I don't know you.

As for the rest of your blog... I dunno. Maybe Blizzard should actually implement it first? Sounds a lot better then the DK crap.:thumbsup: And will actually prevent players from changing their talents 1000 times. BLizzard just has to find that "balancing" code for each one.

I base my judgements on all the facts and rumors that are out there. I have the right to voice my opinon. If that leads to people like you to say I have a "fear" or "hate change" that's just sad - but I understand as this is the way the world works. People like me who voice an opinon or dislike of something - obviously someone will counter - but am surprized it's you saying that. Now, that's sad to me.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

Still Mr. Assumption? Maybe you should try not assuming ok. :flowers: I don't judge you, I don't know you.

Not making assumptions, merely reading what you wrote, and writing what I see in it. Maybe less vague generalizations and more specifics might help reduce the confusion in interpreting what you wrote.

As for the rest of your blog... I dunno. Maybe Blizzard should actually implement it first? Sounds a lot better then the DK crap.:thumbsup: And will actually prevent players from changing their talents 1000 times. BLizzard just has to find that "balancing" code for each one.

But.... Blizzard wants people to be able to adjust their talents. That was why Blizzard decided to make that possible early on in the game (I forget if it was in the Beta or live... or was it free int he Beta and cost money when it was launched... been too long, my memory is horrible on that).

And, if you think that Blizzard has a hard time balancing 9 classes.... could you imagine them trying to balance (or much less, actually *come up with) 27 separate, distinct, and equivalently interesting Hero Classes (3 talent trees x 9 classes)? And then there is the problem of.... what if someone plays a character that is hybridized between two (or even three) trees? Does that basically mean those people are *wrong* for doing that, and they get punished (by not having a Hero Class for themselves) for daring to develop a character that works for them rather than sticking to a cookie-cutter process?

I base my judgements on all the facts and rumors that are out there. I have the right to voice my opinon. If that leads to people like you to say I have a "fear" or "hate change" that's just sad - but I understand as this is the way the world works. People like me who voice an opinon or dislike of something - obviously someone will counter - but am surprized it's you saying that. Now, that's sad to me.

I'm not saying you don't have the "right to voice your opinion". On the contrary, I have an equal right to voice an opposite opinion. Now, as a matter of discussion, if there are two sides to the discussion, both sides then begin to present their cases. Your case seems to be somewhat circular reasoning and a bit irrational from what I've seen (you hate DKs because you hate DKs because you hate DKs). Pretty much not providing even one concrete complaint about the class, only vague loathing about its existence.

My arguments here have mostly been an effort to coax some solid reasons you dislike the Death Knight class. Why? Because I am genuinely interested in what your position is, and why it is that way. To do that, I've compared what you have said, to my own opinion on it. But there is nothing else I've seen you say yet that would show me that there is cause for concern with the class. If what you've already presented is all you have to present, then fine... You don't like the class, but I do. It is easy enough to leave it at that.

And for the record -- I backed my claim of the use of the word "fear" with the observation that your arguments are akin to someone who seems to fear the unknown. The use of the word "hate" was purely based on the comment I replied to.

[Janfader]

I'm not saying you don't have the "right to voice your opinion". On the contrary, I have an equal right to voice an opposite opinion.

I agree, but you have no right to judge someone, which you clearly have. Don't make this personal - too late.

Damn you Xlorep, you edited your last post! You added >

"And for the record -- I backed my claim of the use of the word "fear" with the observation that your arguments are akin to someone who seems to fear the unknown. The use of the word "hate" was purely based on the comment I replied to."

*shakes fist*

...have you? I've seen a lot of ranting about how it is "BS"[1], but I've yet to see what your objection is. Can you explain?


Ok, here's a fine example of this problem.

I'm a new player. No alts, never known crap about the game - until I hear I can get a free character when I hit lvl 55.

I now power level to lvl 55 with a fast grinding character and "BANG!" I jump the ship to the ever so popular DK.

See my problem now? Sorry that my "BS, Rust and Crap" words didn't discribe things better.

Not fair for those who like me have spent a lot of (my own) money upping alts.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

I agree, but you have no right to judge someone, which you clearly have. Don't make this personal - too late.

Damn you Xlorep, you edited your last post! You added >

"And for the record -- I backed my claim of the use of the word "fear" with the observation that your arguments are akin to someone who seems to fear the unknown. The use of the word "hate" was purely based on the comment I replied to."

*shakes fist*

LOL

Well, I'm not trying to make it personal. Sorry if you took it as such, definitely was not looking for a "personal attack" approach, and more of a friendly jab or nudge... but I guess that didn't translate well in what I wrote.

Just so you know, I'm not making any judgments about you. I however have been interested in the merits of your position, what you actually do dislike about the Death Knight beyond just the claim that you do not like the Death Knight. And, I reserve the right to make a counter-position on any of them. Or possibly even agree on a point if I find one I agree with :grin:

Ok, here's a fine example of this problem.

I'm a new player. No alts, never known crap about the game - until I hear I can get a free character when I hit lvl 55.

I now power level to lvl 55 with a fast grinding character and "BANG!" I jump the ship to the ever so popular DK.

See my problem now? Sorry that my "BS, Rust and Crap" words didn't discribe things better.

Not fair for those who like me have spent a lot of (my own) money upping alts.

How is it not fair? You have just as much of an opportunity to make a DK as anyone else does. In fact, if you already have a level 55+ character, that would seem to imply it is actually faster/easier for you to do it.

Further, you are making an assumption that you get a "free" level 55+. We do not know the details or specifics of the quest(s) to unlock the Death Knight class. There are broad generalizations, and a lack of details from Blizzard.

Note -- I have a good number of alts too. But that doesn't mean everyone else must do the same things I did to get them. I was happy when the XP change happened, despite having 4 characters already past the point where it helped them at all. I'm not going to have sour grapes just because it cost me more time/energy to get those 4 characters up than anyone else. I had a level 55 Feral Combat Druid before that talent tree was made useful. I did not have any problem with the idea that the talent tree got improved and others found it easier to level their Druids. I'm not going to begrudge someone else just because they might have the opportunity for something "easier".

Right now... like I said.... we don't know the details. It *could* be that for the Death Knight, when you have a character complete the quest to unlock it, you can only make one Death Knight (one per time a character does that quest series, or one period for that server). There could be any number of things about the class that makes it a bit more challenging to play. What if none of the Death Knight trainers are in a capitol city? What if they are only found hiding in distant zones in the Old World? I mean.... if the Death Knight trainer is deep in the Plaguelands, or Silithus, or Winterspring even... That then forces a bit of travel on the Death Knight characters to get to their training... something that would slow down character development a bit with additional travel time nobody else has. What if the Death Knight is so restricted in weapon selection, that it becomes almost a hindrance? I mean... the Runeblades could be just any 2H sword. Or, they could be a unique weapon skill just for the Death Knight, and they have a limited drop rate/location where they can drop?

There is any number of things that could happen for the Death Knight we aren't aware of yet.... Why? Because Blizzard hasn't been forthcoming with it all yet, I'd bet they have a marketing strategy for when to reveal it, as well as simply waiting until it is finalized enough for them to reveal the details. Getting upset over the class right now, when so little is known... appears like jumping at shadows.

[clevins]

I helped in some game developments, ideas and codes for friends for school projects... the way this DK is being implemented is garbage let alone hero classes.


HAHAHA! Please jan... you helped do some game stuff for a *school project* so you're better at it than people who have developed a game played by millions of people? I mean, your comments are rich... incredibly funny. You don't actually MEAN any of that do you?

Here's a tip - if you don't want to play a DK.. DON'T. Have some self-control.

[Janfader]

HAHAHA! Please jan... you helped do some game stuff for a *school project* so you're better at it than people who have developed a game played by millions of people? I mean, your comments are rich... incredibly funny. You don't actually MEAN any of that do you?

Here's a tip - if you don't want to play a DK.. DON'T. Have some self-control.

Please read post #77

And yeah a 7yr school project which won awards and gave my friend a PHD. But I guess that's a laugh?? God damn people assume a lot.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

Please read post #77

And yeah a 7yr school project which won awards and gave my friend a PHD. But I guess that's a laugh?? God damn people assume a lot.

When you are vague on what you mean, that leaves it open to speculation. If you don't want assumptions, maybe more precision in what you mean might help.

Honestly, I've helped with, as well as written a good amount of games over time, as well as handle large volume databases currently (sporting trillions of records), so I'm somewhat familiar with a lot of what I'd imagine Blizzard's developers have to go through with their systems on the database backends. But, that said... as much as I might speculate on the game, I'm not going to draw conclusions about the Death Knight and decide I hate it before any real information has come out about it, much less before I even get to try it out myself.

[swaldman]

Ok, here's a fine example of this problem.

I'm a new player. No alts, never known crap about the game - until I hear I can get a free character when I hit lvl 55.

I now power level to lvl 55 with a fast grinding character and "BANG!" I jump the ship to the ever so popular DK.

See my problem now?

No, not yet...


Not fair for those who like me have spent a lot of (my own) money upping alts.

Ah. This old argument.
It's not fair that hard encounters get nerfed after a few months, because newer players can do them more easily.
It's not fair that attunements to raid instances seem to be removed after a year or so, because new players don't have to do the attunement quests.
It's not fair that new players can get better gear immediately at lvl 61 than older players spent months trying to get at 60.
It's not fair that levelling 1-60 is faster than it used to be - new players should have to put as much effort in as older players.
It's not fair that older Arena gear is made available for honor.

You don't want a new player to get a death knight as easily as you can, since they haven't put in two years of "effort" in the game first.

Actually they can't. They have to get to lvl 55 first. Admittedly this isn't a huge effort. Maybe it will take more than this (e.g. lots of gold), or maybe it won't - but either way it won't require you to have been playing the game since beta.

Why should it? So that you can feel superior to newer players? Or is there some other reasoning that I'm missing?

I'm not trying to be offensive - I'm just trying to understand what, if any, the rational objection is beneath all the non-specific ranting.

[Janfader]

No, not yet...



Ah. This old argument.
It's not fair that hard encounters get nerfed after a few months, because newer players can do them more easily.
It's not fair that attunements to raid instances seem to be removed after a year or so, because new players don't have to do the attunement quests.
It's not fair that new players can get better gear immediately at lvl 61 than older players spent months trying to get at 60.
It's not fair that levelling 1-60 is faster than it used to be - new players should have to put as much effort in as older players.
It's not fair that older Arena gear is made available for honor.

You don't want a new player to get a death knight as easily as you can, since they haven't put in two years of "effort" in the game first.

Actually they can't. They have to get to lvl 55 first. Admittedly this isn't a huge effort. Maybe it will take more than this (e.g. lots of gold), or maybe it won't - but either way it won't require you to have been playing the game since beta.

Why should it? So that you can feel superior to newer players? Or is there some other reasoning that I'm missing?

I'm not trying to be offensive - I'm just trying to understand what, if any, the rational objection is beneath all the non-specific ranting.

You quoted what I had already said. WTF? You > "Actually they can't. They have to get to lvl 55 first."

Me > "I'm a new player. No alts, never known crap about the game - until I hear I can get a free character when I hit lvl 55. "

Yeah ninja.

And it's not the same ol arguement! All you have to do now is what I said in post #77. Make any character - get to 55 - then get "FREE" DK. Yeah... fair my arse.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

And it's not the same ol arguement! All you have to do now is what I said in post #77. Make any character - get to 55 - then get "FREE" DK. Yeah... fair my arse.

Explain how that isn't the same old argument at all. You had to do X to get Y, now people only need to do Z to get Y seems to be the argument. "I had to level up all of my alts from 1 - 55 myself, but now all people need to do is get 1 character to 55, and get a second one"

Same old thing.

And who said anything about fair? Is it fair that what used to take a lot of Arena matches, points, and ratings can now be gotten through honor/marks of honor? What about BG's being able to provide equivalents to Tier-4 or soon to be Tier-5 raid gear? What about people now needing a significant lower amount of XP per level from 20 - 60? Or getting more XP per quest from 30 - 60? How "fair" is it that there are no more attunements for certain raid instances?

So, I ask again, how is your argument even remotely different than the same old "it isn't fair" argument that certain players have plagued WoW with for a while now?

[Janfader]

Explain how that isn't the same old argument at all. You had to do X to get Y, now people only need to do Z to get Y seems to be the argument. "I had to level up all of my alts from 1 - 55 myself, but now all people need to do is get 1 character to 55, and get a second one"

Same old thing.

So your alright with a newbie that has spent a lot less time and effort getting his first character to lvl 55 and acquiring a free character that just came out? 55 free levels just like that?

Then Blizzards should allow you to acquire all classes when you hit lvl 55.

***Make one character now, level him to 55 and "BANG!" you get FREE lvl 55 characters!!!!***

If that doesn't burn anyone on this site/group/WoW I must be completely insane.

I think of myself as a share holder in this case with my investments as well all others who have done the same as me. Why should a new invester get a free deal/share?

[swaldman]

So your alright with a newbie that has spent a lot less time and effort getting his first character to lvl 55 and acquiring a free character that just came out? 55 free levels just like that?

Yes. They get to enjoy the new class just like I do. I don't have a problem with that.

(although this may not actually be the case - e.g. perhaps you'll need a few thousand gold as well as a lvl 55 character. Time will tell.)

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

So your alright with a newbie that has spent a lot less time and effort getting his first character to lvl 55 and acquiring a free character that just came out? 55 free levels just like that?

To quote Inigo Montoya: "You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means."

Honestly, it does not bother me one bit if some new player to WoW unlocks and plays a Death Knight. Any more than it would bother me for some new player to make any other class. It isn't like that player can play BOTH characters simultaneously, he/she is only going to be able to play one at a time.

How DARE someone else get to enjoy this game! :rolleyes:

Seriously though... I have 10 characters on my server, running a pretty wide range in levels. I enjoy leveling them, switching off between them, and get a lot of pleasure/relaxation from doing that. When the Death Knight comes out, I am honestly hoping there will be another slot for the Death Knight... otherwise my Orc Hunter might go visit my characters on another server to make room for a Death Knight.

No, it does not bother me at all that someone can make a Death Knight. It is completely fair, because, and here's the kicker -- anyone who plays WoW and has WotLK, as well as a character high enough, could potentially unlock the Death Knight and make that character. You can't get any more "fair" than that, honestly.

Then Blizzards should allow you to acquire all classes when you hit lvl 55.

But the base classes are the base classes. The Death Knight is a Hero Class.... something a bit different.

***Make one character now, level him to 55 and "BANG!" you get FREE lvl 55 characters!!!!***

Your sarcasm is lacking substance.

If that doesn't burn anyone on this site/group/WoW I must be completely insane.

What, your sarcasm? Your slippery slope? It is annoying that you are hung up on this, sure. But honestly, I have yet to see you offer anything of substance here. Just jumping at shadows and making grand presumptions.

I think of myself as a share holder in this case with my investments as well all others who have done the same as me. Why should a new invester get a free deal/share?

Except that this is NOT even REMOTELY the same thing. Blizzard views WoW with an eye toward storytelling. More than that, they want it to be fun for people to play. They want the new Hero Class to be different than the other classes. Different, but balanced; "epic" but not overpowered.

What you are expressing is a kind of elitism, a sense of entitlement to your position, or possibly more like an over-inflated sense of worth based on your own set of rules to it. You feel that if YOU, PERSONALLY had to do things a certain way, that then you'd expect others have to as well. Despite Blizzard explaining, and pointedly demonstrating time and again that this most definitely is not the case, even with the few who gripe and complain about it not being "fair".

You are screaming about one known part of the Death Knight class -- that it will start at a higher level. You make an assumption that it equals that it is free. There is absolutely no details right now about how the class will be unlocked.... other than some vague statements leading to speculation. There is nothing about how many Death Knights someone can make. So, you seem to be angry about something without knowing the details (that "fear of the unknown thing" I mentioned before).

Your entire argument of "I had to level each character to 55, so everyone else should too" is exactly the same old argument that has come up on a lot of things, like PvP gear and the like. Honestly, I fail to see how someone else getting something easier than I did has anything to do with me. I already got it. Like, for instance, an epic flying mount. If Blizzard changed the cost for the skill by cutting it in half, I'd congratulate people for it now being less expensive/not take as long -- I wouldn't gripe that it isn't "fair" that they get it easier than I did.

Seriously.... I hate to say it.... but your argument seems to be boiling down to some kind of childish temper tantrum about how unfair things are. I'm baffled that you'd resort to this, quite honestly.

[Valas Azuviir]

***Make one character now, level him to 55 and "BANG!" you get FREE lvl 55 characters!!!!***

If that doesn't burn anyone on this site/group/WoW I must be completely insane.


Yup, you are..

It isn't bang free new character, as has been mentioned a few times already in this very thread.

It's ding, ok now I have to do this quest to unlock the DK.
And a newbie might not be able to pull off this quest, due to their inexperience (plus possible lack of gear).

So that means that a wait and see attitude would be far more prudent at this stage, due to a lack of knowledge of what exactly the nuts and bolts will be. Being sceptical is one thing, being close minded is another.



I think of myself as a share holder in this case with my investments as well all others who have done the same as me. Why should a new invester get a free deal/share?

By looking at this thread, the other shareholders do not agree with your position, and feel that this decision in no way devalues their own stock. So, in accordance with the majority rule, your motion to dismiss the board has been rejected.

[Janfader]

Seriously.... I hate to say it.... but your argument seems to be boiling down to some kind of childish temper tantrum about how unfair things are. I'm baffled that you'd resort to this, quite honestly.

Yeah Childish... Your assuming once again Mr. Assumption. Yep, your right again, I just threw a temper tantrum - again an assumption.

I'm baffled that you live your life assuming - must be a s/w guy for sure. Assuming your code is good enough. Never the code's fault right? Must be the hard ware.

Take shots at me X and send them back. Enough is engouh.

Yup, you are..

It isn't bang free new character, as has been mentioned a few times already in this very thread.

It's ding, ok now I have to do this quest to unlock the DK.
And a newbie might not be able to pull off this quest, due to their inexperience (plus possible lack of gear).

So that means that a wait and see attitude would be far more prudent at this stage, due to a lack of knowledge of what exactly the nuts and bolts will be. Being sceptical is one thing, being close minded is another.




By looking at this thread, the other shareholders do not agree with your position, and feel that this decision in no way devalues their own stock. So, in accordance with the majority rule, your motion to dismiss the board has been rejected.

lol, yeah 4 people out of 10 million. ok.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

Yeah Childish... Your assuming once again Mr. Assumption. Yep, your right again, I just threw a temper tantrum - again an assumption.

I'm baffled that you live your life assuming - must be a s/w guy for sure. Assuming your code is good enough. Never the code's fault right? Must be the hard ware.

Take shots at me X and send them back. Enough is engouh.

Ok, how the HECK am I assuming? You were the one griping about how it was "not fair", and when people made counter-arguments, you continued down the "not fair" complaint. I think that you don't know what the word "assumption" means....

Further, I said that your argument appears to be like a temper tantrum. I didn't say you were throwing one. I also backed up my claim pointing out how you repeatedly are throwing around the "not fair" line, and yet again not offering anything resembling support for your claims.

lol, yeah 4 people out of 10 million. ok.

As opposed to your 1 in 10 million?

Or are you going to start a "popular argument" fallacy?

[Valas Azuviir]

lol, yeah 4 people out of 10 million. ok.

Xlorep, Clevins, Swaldman, Tanitha, myself, Strongwind, Det, Leviathonlx, TPMdm, xDarkDrifterx, Dakiter, Morollan, Dhoum, Findariel, Aerath.

All have said basically the same thing, not enough information to make any reasonable assessments at this point.

Then there are the folks who posted in the flawed poll and who gives a crud and no make for 24, and that's of course presuming that the who gives a crud actually wanted to say we don't know, wait and see.

Either way, in this argument on this forum, it's your pov, against the povs of the names I mentioned above.

You can claim that you're the voice of all the 10 million players, but this does not make it so. Matter of fact, it's fairly easy to disprove that statement by the very fact that the named individuals have disagreed with your pov that it's perfectly valid to say that the DKs are op/garbage at this point in time, when there's not enough data to support your position.

Oh, and lest I forget..


2. Thou Shalt Not Spam or Engage in Posting Wars.

When replying to multiple posts within the same thread we ask that you use a single post to do so. Use the [ quote] Insert text here [ /quote] command in your reply to quote the person's name and comment you are replying too.


Source (http://www.worldofwar.net/forums/rules/).

That's the second time in this thread that I've had to clean up behind you. Do suggest you cease and desist with this tomfoolery and simply obey the forum rules.

And on a final note, you've accused Xlorep of getting personal. The very first insult tossed about was by you, when you made comments about the DK being his boyfriend.

Everything else has been used with modifying words such as: appear, seem, akin to. Indicating that at first glance an impression is given, but that such an impression need not be the truth. Pretty much inviting you to actually give some substance to your complaints.

Thus far, you really haven't. The closest thing would be the it's not fair approach, but then again, few things in life are fair. Either learn to deal with it or go do something about it. That's the only choices you get in life. And considering doing something about it here, is about as useful as sticking a rocket pack on a pig, well.. You know where the door is, so you can sally forth and go do something about it elsewhere.

[clevins]

Hmm there's an interresting assumption running around in the last page or 2. Maybe I've missed the news... but has Blizzard actually said "when you hit 55 you can unlock a DK who will also start at 55?" Because that is certainly not on their FAQ page about it... and every since Blizzcon all they've said is that it will start at a highish level having been unlocked by a player at or above that level. Unless there's been an announcement, we don't know that you won't have to be 80 first...

But, Jan, here are the facts:

1) There will be a DK class.

2) it will be unlocked at a high level

3) If you don't like it, don't roll one.

4) If the entire concept offends you so much, quit the game.

Please read post #77

And yeah a 7yr school project which won awards and gave my friend a PHD. But I guess that's a laugh?? God damn people assume a lot.

Um... I don't know how to break this to you, but even a doctoral level project is a LONG way from actually building a game millions of people play.

Oh and post 77? It's not yours, it's Xlorep's. So, as with most of the posts from page 7 on, I have no idea what the heck you're trying to say aside from you hate the DK concept. Fine... but... that doesn't make it objectively bad and everyone who disagrees with you an idiot. Which seems to be your contention.

And.. well... why is it so important to you? It's a game... play it or don't. Roll a DK or don't. But this entire thread is silly - we don't even have complete, detailed class info, much less a beta we can try out.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

Hmm there's an interresting assumption running around in the last page or 2. Maybe I've missed the news... but has Blizzard actually said "when you hit 55 you can unlock a DK who will also start at 55?" Because that is certainly not on their FAQ page about it... and every since Blizzcon all they've said is that it will start at a highish level having been unlocked by a player at or above that level. Unless there's been an announcement, we don't know that you won't have to be 80 first...

The range is supposed to be 55 - 70. Somewhere in there is what is being looked at. And whatever level it is you need to be to finish the quest is supposedly the level the DK will be.

Oh and post 77? It's not yours, it's Xlorep's. So, as with most of the posts from page 7 on, I have no idea what the heck you're trying to say aside from you hate the DK concept. Fine... but... that doesn't make it objectively bad and everyone who disagrees with you an idiot. Which seems to be your contention.

It was his, but he did a number of back-to-back posts, which had to be cleaned up, so it threw the numbering off and got Valas angry.

And.. well... why is it so important to you? It's a game... play it or don't. Roll a DK or don't. But this entire thread is silly - we don't even have complete, detailed class info, much less a beta we can try out.

Yup.

[Valas Azuviir]

It was his, but he did a number of back-to-back posts, which had to be cleaned up, so it threw the numbering off and got Valas angry.
.

More like annoyed.. Next step is irritated, after that comes anger.
Then again, the bakka hammer comes out of the holster at irritated.
Thus I've never reached an anger stage here.

:afro:

[moopy]

Hmm, a "poll" about whether a class which doesn't exist yet is "to powerful" (sic). Wrist action, frontal lobes.

I'll get me coat

[caldepen]

yeah this is stupid guys... It might be overpowered or it might not, it hasn't been created yet! The son I haven't had yet might be a genius or a clown but why worry now?

[moopy]

..and why can't a clown be a genius too, eh?

You make the point quite well, apart from your steenkin' clownist attitude :)

[Janfader]

Xlorep, Clevins, Swaldman, Tanitha, myself, Strongwind, Det, Leviathonlx, TPMdm, xDarkDrifterx, Dakiter, Morollan, Dhoum, Findariel, Aerath.

All have said basically the same thing, not enough information to make any reasonable assessments at this point.

Then there are the folks who posted in the flawed poll and who gives a crud and no make for 24, and that's of course presuming that the who gives a crud actually wanted to say we don't know, wait and see.

Either way, in this argument on this forum, it's your pov, against the povs of the names I mentioned above.

You can claim that you're the voice of all the 10 million players, but this does not make it so. Matter of fact, it's fairly easy to disprove that statement by the very fact that the named individuals have disagreed with your pov that it's perfectly valid to say that the DKs are op/garbage at this point in time, when there's not enough data to support your position.

Oh, and lest I forget..



Source (http://www.worldofwar.net/forums/rules/).

That's the second time in this thread that I've had to clean up behind you. Do suggest you cease and desist with this tomfoolery and simply obey the forum rules.

And on a final note, you've accused Xlorep of getting personal. The very first insult tossed about was by you, when you made comments about the DK being his boyfriend.

Everything else has been used with modifying words such as: appear, seem, akin to. Indicating that at first glance an impression is given, but that such an impression need not be the truth. Pretty much inviting you to actually give some substance to your complaints.

Thus far, you really haven't. The closest thing would be the it's not fair approach, but then again, few things in life are fair. Either learn to deal with it or go do something about it. That's the only choices you get in life. And considering doing something about it here, is about as useful as sticking a rocket pack on a pig, well.. You know where the door is, so you can sally forth and go do something about it elsewhere.

Your right Valas - I should have mutli-quoted. But the time it takes for me to quote.. wiating for page to update is like waiting for a Tank to come along in LFG. I'll remmeber that in the future.

I get really bent out of shape when rumors and "if" and "unknows" are released - especially by a mod through a vote. Everyone is correct in this thread, no hard facts about the DK. Why was this post even started then?

Maybe in the rules one should add - can't post a pull/thread if the facts are NOT released. :flowers:

[Tort]

Maybe your son will become The Dude. :laugh: Thats basically the perfect blend between a genius and a clown.

To Janfader:

Most of us share Xlorep's extreme bewilderment at your attitude towards the Death Knight, a class we have barely any information on. When it comes down to it, you clearly are angry/obsessed/jealous that someone who has played this game for a shorter time than you have will be able to create a character as powerful or even more powerful than anything you currently possess. If this is the case, I assume you are also angry at someone like me, who has only been playing the game for a year or so but is already at Illidan's doorstep (assuming you are not also at the same level of progression, and assuming you give a rat's ass about pve progression).

If this is in fact not your proposition, you should really try to clear it up, instead of constantly accusing the rest of us of personally attacking you or your position.

[odinsnephew]

who gives a crud

Yay I voted there!!

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

I get really bent out of shape when rumors and "if" and "unknows" are released - especially by a mod through a vote. Everyone is correct in this thread, no hard facts about the DK. Why was this post even started then?

Valor Angirin (http://www.worldofwar.net/forums/member.php?u=393818) is not a mod. Valas Azuviir (http://www.worldofwar.net/forums/member.php?u=150136) is. Believe it or not, there is a difference between the two, despite the name similarities, they have different avatars, and completely different styles of writing. Valor made the poll -- he's a fan of the game, and was curious for input. Enough reason for the poll to be made.

Plenty of people already stated that there isn't enough information about the class to be able to even make a guess as to whether the class would be supposedly underpowered or overpowered or anything.

Maybe in the rules one should add - can't post a pull/thread if the facts are NOT released. :flowers:

I dunno... I think that is a bit much. People should be able to make speculations and things. I mean, this is a fansite's forum, after all.

[dgrampa]

You quoted what I had already said. WTF? You > "Actually they can't. They have to get to lvl 55 first."

Me > "I'm a new player. No alts, never known crap about the game - until I hear I can get a free character when I hit lvl 55. "

Yeah ninja.

And it's not the same ol arguement! All you have to do now is what I said in post #77. Make any character - get to 55 - then get "FREE" DK. Yeah... fair my arse.

You need to consider that nobody will be getting free level 55 mages or priests or any other class except the DK. If someone (even a newb) wants a level 70 shaman they need to start at level 1 just like you did. They need to roll alts and level them just like you did. Everyone has the same opportunity to get a DK just like you do.

I understand your concern, you think it unfair that someone can pick up the game and instantly have 2 chars at 55 (or whatever level is chosen). But really, take a step back and look at the big picture. Everyone is getting a 'free' character. Blizzard didn't decide to go this route to screw over their existing characters. They did it because a level 1 death knight is retarded.

The death knight will not be OP. Why would Blizzard intentionally unbalance a game they have spent years trying to balance? Really, just think about it for 2 minutes before you get bent out of shape. Once again, a thread I assume will be laughed out of existance draws insane amounts of equally insane posts. :ponder:

[Janfader]

I dunno... I think that is a bit much. People should be able to make speculations and things. I mean, this is a fansite's forum, after all.

It would be much - but my hair would stop failing out - maybe.

I do appreciate the feedback in many ways. I'll take the good points as a learning curve the negative as to making my posts more pronouced and understood.

I also crunch my replies somewhat too fast (at work and all) :grin:

[Valas Azuviir]

I get really bent out of shape when rumors and "if" and "unknows" are released - especially by a mod through a vote. Everyone is correct in this thread, no hard facts about the DK. Why was this post even started then?


Valor ain't a Mod though. Just a regular person who is worried, like yourself. In most of our opinions here, he has no reason yet to be worried, precisely because we don't have enough information either way to justify such worry.

It's like worrying about whether or not it's going to rain tomorrow and the next weather update isn't going to be in for at least two hours. Why waste those two hours worrying about whether or not it's going to rain, when it can go either way. Better to wait it out, get the info, and then start make plans to deal with the situation.

[Shellar]

My Death Knight will be a bank alt.

[Icefrost]

My Death Knight will be a bank alt.

You have my thanks for making me crack up at the boring end of my work hours.:thumbsup:
Not only that, but I believe I will also be doing what you said.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Eventually people start to play their bank alts, so might as well have one at level 55.

[PlayThemAll]

I would be nice to get a bank alt that can achieve a high profession level for things like DE'ing, etc. w/o the time spend leveling them to 50-60.

[ZaxGreia]

My Death Knight will be a bank alt.
To quote Twoflower, "You shine a light in the darkest of places." Awesome.

I'm kinda disappointed that noone wanted to theorycraft with me. I guess it's more fun to argue with Xlorep - perhaps I'll take a shot at it sometime...

"Your right Valas - I should have mutli-quoted. But the time it takes for me to quote.. wiating for page to update is like waiting for a Tank to come along in LFG. I'll remmeber that in the future."
I also found it humorous that Janfader made the tank comment, given that his whole problem with Deathknights is that there will be too many of them.

The idea of being able to do end-game with an alt a bit quicker is extremely attractive to me. I can see how giving everyone access to any class might cause some balance and population issues though, and that it might seem unfair to the "I work hard to enjoy this game" crowd. Be that as it may, I think our group has produced some excellent balance mechanics.

1. Not everyone will get access to them - it will require a questline that shouldn't be too tough for experienced players, but will probably be on par with class epic mounts. This means that very experienced, geared players will cruise through it. Others will probably struggle. Note that this will likely only be available to upper-level players - 71-80, from what I've read (maybe even max level only).

2. They may have special considerations for skill acquisiton, as has been mentioned. Trainers only found in out-of-the-way locations, etc.

3. They may have special considerations for rune blades. IFAIK, runeblades could either be drops, or they could be created items. Either way, there will be limitations related to materials for runeblade creation, droprates, or whatever. Based on what I know about how Blizzard works, it'll probably be through quests or abilities that most runeblades are acquired. You know, take out Baron Rivendare, bring his runeblade, have it cleansed - takes 10 quests, lots of running around, plus a few dungeon runs.

Personally, this all sounds like a blast. I'd enjoy the questlines, the idea of playing a Baron Rivendare-like character, and the lore associated with it. Death Knights are so much more a part of Warcraft lore than almost any other class.

However, it doesn't sound like something a "newbie" could handle easily. It might be a bit frustrating to be attempting to handle unfamiliar content with a character that requires so much knowledge of the game. For other people, it'd be a fun challenge.

I doubt that WoW will suddenly begin offering "free" anything to anyone.

The game will always require time, though the amounts of time change depending on how much fun Blizzard thinks players are having. If it's not fun, not fitting with how they want the game to play, or not working logistically, Blizzard changes it.

That's why the leveling curve was increased. That's also why season 1 arena gear is available now for honor, High Warlord is now just a title, and a group of 10 people can clear MC. Honestly, it's why the game is still fun.

It's also why I'm willing to pay $15 a month to play - the experience keeps changing - what was hard is now easier, or more worthwhile. What was tedious is now less-so. It's all about making the game more playable for more people.

[Leviathonlx]

People really don't understand Death Knights will be like draenei and blood elves. There will be tons at first but then many will go back to their mains. Sure its a new class and many will want to play it but not everyone is going to reroll to one.

[ZaxGreia]

People really don't understand Death Knights will be like draenei and blood elves. There will be tons at first but then many will go back to their mains. Sure its a new class and many will want to play it but not everyone is going to reroll to one.

Nah - Death Knight will become the only class anyone ever plays. Who needs healing when you're THAT awesome. Tank, DPS, more tanking and dps - everyone will be a Death Knight.

In fact, they'll rename the game to World of Death-Knight-craft.

But only if the only race that can become Death Knights is gnomes. Otherwise, nobody will be able to take the class seriously ;)

[GreenArmadillo]

1. Not everyone will get access to them - it will require a questline that shouldn't be too tough for experienced players, but will probably be on par with class epic mounts. This means that very experienced, geared players will cruise through it. Others will probably struggle. Note that this will likely only be available to upper-level players - 71-80, from what I've read (maybe even max level only).

I've actually read the opposite. In the original announcement from Blizzcon they did say it would be a level 80 questline, but a bit later on blues were saying on the forums that they weren't sure they liked a mechanic of forcing players to power to 80 just to unlock the character they actually wanted to play (who would then need to be leveled normally). Point being, no one outside Blizzard knows exactly how the "unlock" will work, and it's possible that even includes Blizzard themselves. ;)

Bear in mind, Blizzard would like to sell this expansion to everyone, not just people who have a level 70 character. There's no new race, there's a new profession but it may or may not be fully supported sub-70 (see 1-60 Jewelcrafting, a completely different profession from what it is in Outland), and as far as we know, there's no new sub-70 content (with the possible exception of starter content for Deathknights). I suspect that Blizzard wants something more compelling than barbershops to market the expansion with. Also, Hellfire Peninsula getting destroyed by an army of Deathknights on launch day would actually be a good thing from Blizzard's standpoint - anyone doing that isn't contributing to congestion in the level 70-71 zones.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

I've actually read the opposite. In the original announcement from Blizzcon they did say it would be a level 80 questline, but a bit later on blues were saying on the forums that they weren't sure they liked a mechanic of forcing players to power to 80 just to unlock the character they actually wanted to play (who would then need to be leveled normally). Point being, no one outside Blizzard knows exactly how the "unlock" will work, and it's possible that even includes Blizzard themselves. ;)

FYI, at BlizzCon, they said "a high level", looking at a range of 55 - 70, and not requiring 80. That, I remember from the Class Discussion panel.

Blizzard's people did say that they were looking at a questline. They just did not want it to require raiding or anything like that.... they want it possible for anyone to be able to do, not just those pushing through the end-game content.

Bear in mind, Blizzard would like to sell this expansion to everyone, not just people who have a level 70 character. There's no new race, there's a new profession but it may or may not be fully supported sub-70 (see 1-60 Jewelcrafting, a completely different profession from what it is in Outland), and as far as we know, there's no new sub-70 content (with the possible exception of starter content for Deathknights). I suspect that Blizzard wants something more compelling than barbershops to market the expansion with. Also, Hellfire Peninsula getting destroyed by an army of Deathknights on launch day would actually be a good thing from Blizzard's standpoint - anyone doing that isn't contributing to congestion in the level 70-71 zones.

I'd expect it might be level 55, if only because the zones that make the most logical sense for a Death Knight to start in (speculative), would be the Plaguelands -- they already are teeming with Scourge. A few levels in the old world, then jump into Outland. Meanwhile, on the Northrend front, there will be 2 starting zones dividing the playerbase who are doing that, hopefully keeping Northrend from looking like Outland did shortly after TBC launched. With any luck, they'll have people jumping in on the Northrend, Outland, and even Old World servers/zones at launch, dividing/spreading out the playerbase accordingly.

[Shellar]

It would be nice to get a bank alt that can achieve a high profession level for things like DE'ing, etc. w/o the time spend leveling them to 50-60.
Exactly. :smiley: