zul' jin

[rottentomato]

need some advice on strategies for downing him....we keep managing to take him to around 10% and then we end up wiping, so would like advice on how to finish that last phase...our dps is fine for every phase EXCEPT eagle, where its usually just me and the tank damaging him and our casters wanding.

[Twoflower]

why wanding ? it is fine to cast spells as long as you do more damage to him than to yourself. The time you loose there could be the reason for the last 10 %.

[EdvinMedvind]

Stack hunters? :P

[thulzadoom]

stay out of the fire....


I found him easy. hex lord still gives up fits.

[rottentomato]

brought an extra hunter and it seriously KILLS that eagle phase much faster...still having trouble on the last phase.

[YamahaGuy]

Yeah we tend to take at least 1 hunter, and a melee class (fury warrior or rogue) plus tank beating on eagle, people wanding.

We have a lot of locks; so when phase 2 ends we pile tons of DoTs to help in phase 3... then if locks are currently full health, take lil bit of risk and renew some DoTs.

End phase? Thats just a dps race; if you leave phase 3+4 with most of your dps and all healers alive, just keep people alive and make SURE they step out of fire. PH5 isnt really the tough phase... just get there with most your people up and you got it.

[rottentomato]

is there a way to see the fire sooner? i seem to get hit with it, and my 12k health just goes POOF

[YamahaGuy]

Hmmm spell detail low? Usually when you see the graphics on the ground, if you move asap your fine

// That PH3 seems like its 20 minutes long dont it? every gruuling second... sheesh.

Rest of the fight pretty fun tho. But man I hate that phase.

[rottentomato]

phase three takes almost 7 minutes with just me and a tank doing DPS...not very fun hopefully tomorrow we down him, and ill check spell detail...

[Cerberus]

The flame pillars do damage outside the animation. 4yd radius or something. Try to keep people topped and don't be close to eachother.

Just you and the tank doing dps sounds strange. What other classes are you bringing?

[rottentomato]

usual make up is

tank
lock
mage
shadow priest
pally healer
pally healer
druid healer
priest
hunter
lock or mage

[Twoflower]

phase three takes almost 7 minutes with just me and a tank doing DPS...not very fun hopefully tomorrow we down him, and ill check spell detail...

the entire fight shouldnt even take 7 minutes -.- do damage ! seriously. no use to stand around for that much time and wait for a mistake to happen.

[Toorn88]

During the eagle phase let your mage/lock (donnu spec) use their largest casttime spells, which are often the biggest damage dealers, like pyro and soulfire. And let them wand for X seconds before they cast a new spell, but let them do more then just wanding xD

Also 2 holy paladins is to much, you rather want shaman over that second paladin.

[YamahaGuy]

Is that four healers or is one a dps spec?

Ours varies. We've done it with pally/pally/priest, but we've also done it with pally/priest/druid and other combinations.

I avoid 2 pallies if I can on hex. He copies the pallies so many times then melee(s) and tanks getting hit by at least first tick of each concecrate often so yeah... it sucks

For phase 3 ZJ we usually have at least one rogue and one hunter. Sometimes two of a class. It isnt nearly 7 mins for us. But it sure SEEMS like forever watching each % go down >.<

[moopy]

Group makeup looks crummy, for starters. Secondly- why the hell aren't people DPSsing in the eagle phase? The damage is a flat per-cast effect, doesn't scale with the strength of the spell- so caster dps and healers just use big casts, so the benefit of the cast outweighs the damage by a higher proportion. Taking ages over it is pure fail, it's asking to lose. Grit your teeth and pew pew- it works so much better.

Also, be aware that the damage effect in this phase is nature damage. Have your hunter stick up aspect of nature. Funny to see no shaman in the makeup, if you had one, you could have the shammy in one group, hunter in the other, giving nature resist, as well as dropping heroism/bloodlust for that last 10%.

The entire fight, start to finish, shouldn't take 7 mins. Do DPS in all phases. This is what's killing you- simple as that, stop slacking in eagle phase. Tell your healers to use big heals- probably a good reason not to take two paladins if this fight is still progression for you. A priest or resto shaman instead of one of the pallies would make healing this phase a great deal easier, as they have much better tools for the job (and inexperienced pallies tend to come out in a rash if they have to stop FoLing).

[rottentomato]

cool...thanks moopy...was waiting for ya to make a post ;)

[Twoflower]

grrr i said that very same thing in 2 posts before him -.- you have me on ignore or what ? ^^

[rottentomato]

lol possibly ;)


went in with what appears to be our group to get him laid out today...but server issues kept us from really going to town like we wanted to...

pally tank
warrior tank
lock
lock
hunter
hunter
holy priest
pally healer
shammy healer
shadow priest


this make up seems a little better suited, and we were killing the bosses in record times...clearing the rest of it tomorrow to zuljin, and getting a good couple shots in him...hopefully knock him out pretty quickly. we have some ideas for a few phases that we want to try.

[moopy]

grrr i said that very same thing in 2 posts before him -.- you have me on ignore or what ? ^^

Great minds think alike, though (or fools never differ- who knows?). Maybe you just scare people with your kitten-crushing ways :)

Rotten,

If you're taking a resto shammy, I can tell you how I cope with eagle phase. Resto shammy is really nice for this one, as I discovered. This might not make much sense to you, but it might help your resto totem chucker..

Essentially, At the start of the phase, I drop a wrath of air (extra healing/spelldamage) and then earthshield myself, and drop a healing stream totem. This means that both the shield and totem get that extra 101 +heal for their duration. Then I replace the wrath of air with a nature resist totem. Upshot- I have some healing pre-stacked on myself and my group is getting a steady HoT for the next two minutes, plus everyone in my group has nature resistance. I have found that this little trick takes the edge off things, and helped a lot when I was in a raid that was learning to kill this guy.

If you can get to the last boss, you can kill him- no question of that. He's not actually difficult, people just need to know each phase- something they're not used to if they've only been doing Karazhan (where the fights are simple). This fight is CAEK for people who are used to fighting Kael'Thas and the like, as their brain is wired for multi-phase fights- it's a lovely mini-version of a proper endgame raid boss (which is why I like the fight).

What helps is if the raid leader knows each phase inside-out. While (s)he should of course give people a rundown of phases at the start, it's possible that they'll lose track in all the excitement, so the RL should call out in the fight- "lynx phase, spam heal people with lynx hunt", or "eagle phase, use big casts only" and so forth, just to jog folks' memories. Keep it short and clear, and you'll be home and dry.

Like I say- if you can get to this guy, you can kill him. It's an easier fight than the annoying egg hatcher guy and similar, once you get the different phases straight. Good luck, stick it to him.

[rottentomato]

yea dragonhawk is by far my least favorite boss we do..the scout pulls are annoying, and everything else is just annoying once you get there with the hatchers and all...plus first timers there usually make us have to reset at least twice until they figure out the bombs.

our guild is a little past kara with 2/6 ssc and 2/6 tk, with mag, gruul, and most of za on farm status. working on tidewalker and leo this week, so should see some results by the end of it, and hopefully get at 4/6 there.



good advice tho with the resto shammy, ill spread the word about it.

[YamahaGuy]

Ill admit we struck out on ZJ this weekend. I dont know why. Well I do know why, but don't really understand. We've been downing him each week.

But this weekend, struck out saturday. Came back sunday and struck out again. It was always something.

Almost always lose a healer in PH3. Someone pulled agro on a transition. Melee got whirlwind on an attempt or two. Tank died in phase 2 a couple times. Some oom problems on some attempts.

I dont understand why the tornadoes sometimes pick a healer, knock em in a corner and hit them 6-7 times in a row until their dead. I told them "if you dont get bumped back or move out of the way after being bumped sometimes it dont go away". Then watched it myself, damn thing chased her left, right, front back pegging her until dead.

To the point where its like, can you please just not die? friggen please?

Or one side gets three tornadoes and the two people on that side just get bounced around and mauled

Just <some reason> on <every attempt> and it was gruuling and cost A LOT of money in repairs and consumables. It was completely disheartening. Especially with many wipes when <10% to go. Almost makes him not worth it.

Cry =(

[moopy]

Dang nabbit- either I can't click, or the edit function is playing up.. please delete this!

[moopy]

Almost always lose a healer in PH3. Someone pulled agro on a transition. Melee got whirlwind on an attempt or two. Tank died in phase 2 a couple times. Some oom problems on some attempts.

Not used to people dying here, just being belted about like pinballs, the effect is hilarious- even though on a bad day, it can make it tricky to get those big/slow heals off (yay for taking a druid too).

For me, hex Lord and Zui'Jin are bosses to wind down to, after focussing in order to do the timed chests thang. Honestly, I think the egg hatchy guy is a harder fight. The first time I saw ZJ (and by extension, the first time that raid group had, too), we killed him second attempt- but took several attempts on the egg hatchy guy. I suspect the huge difference is the one I already explained.. If your people are sufficiently used to grokking multi-phase fights, this one slots in neatly. If you're not, then the raid leader needs to remind them very concisely and clearly what to do, a few seconds before the start of each phase.

Once your people are used to doing Kael'Thas, they'll steamroller ZJ. It's not about gear- just about mindset. Idiots in tier 6 can wipe in ZA, and focussed people in Badge and Kara gear can actually clear it.

[YamahaGuy]

I dont know. Most all attempts cept some flukes, were priests dying in PH3.

I dont understand why a tornado would nail someone 6-7 times in a row but it does. Despite binding heal (win) and big heals, its almost always dead priest. To the point of desk banging frustration. Even more so when one side gets 3 tornadoes, plus 1-2 that stick and do the 6-7 in a row thing. Seems BS to me but... what can I say?

I could say, stop dying. Dont die. Hell, I will pay you not to die. Please? Sigh.

// Um, hey. Does earthshield tick every time tornado hit? Hmmmm

[Zachariah]

It's certainly my experience that the tornadoes chase me down (resto shaman) but not for long. Tell your priests to stick to the middle, as they won't be hurt by the boss during this stage. Running away to the walls is bad, as you just get bounced back into them. I tend to run in a circle round the boss.

[YamahaGuy]

Really?

Well we used the setup where theres 2 people per side, near the outer corners. One dps and one healer, typically. Since theres 3 healers not 4; we just put them adjacent to the side who doesnt have a healer.

Its a decent setup because the tornadoes have to travel far when they pick someone on opposite sides. Its a bad setup when one side gets 3 tornadoes at once and they are mauled

[moopy]

I dont know. Most all attempts cept some flukes, were priests dying in PH3.

I dont understand why a tornado would nail someone 6-7 times in a row but it does. Despite binding heal (win) and big heals, its almost always dead priest.

Possibly there's an aggro component. No-one attacks tornadoes, or AoEs the boss- but heal threat may be it. Priests are the most fragile. Have them try and fade, see if it chases other healers. Druids and shamans put out more threat per point healed than a properly-specced priest..

Anyway, seriously, I don't understand the problem.. I'm used to lots of wipes on the egg hatchy guy when learning ZA, but the last boss being amazingly easy. running to the walls is perfectly valid when there's a space there- phase 3 should be one of the easier ones. Bear phase can be a pain if you're light on dispelling, OTOH.

[YamahaGuy]

we only really wipe on dragonhawk when we get people not-so-good at bombs. Harsh reality but hey.

We do an entire hatch side at once, using a pally. If he happens to bomb before their all down, a chall shout takes care of that. Then 7-7-all. After the eggs are gone, its just heal tank n peoples.

It can take work if someone.... oh... forgets to kill the hatcher. Or the pally gets unlucky and hit with fire thingy plus all the debuffs and no one heals him... stuff like that. But suck at bombs = miserable evening

[moopy]

we only really wipe on dragonhawk when we get people not-so-good at bombs. Harsh reality but hey.

Tell 'em to flip the camera overhead and zoom out when the bombs start flying. Makes it super-easy to avoid, as I found :)

[Ash Housewares]

some resto druid always manages to get bombed...grrr

[rgirty]

We one shot everyone up to ZJ and haven't gotten him down yet. I've only fought him through one night of attempts and he got us at 5%. I haven't had time for za with all the 25's but we stormed the joint over the weekend and downed up to him in one shot attempts.

Only two timed chests tho, the third appears to be pretty tough but I think we'll get to the point where we can get it.

[YamahaGuy]

2 chest run rocks - 2nd chest the best imo its got great weps for a few different classes. People hurting on rings might disagree but w/e

We knock it out before our 25s since it resets every 3 days. Its fun!

Yanno....

It amazes me how "easy" others find ZA. Im not sure why we do well in 25's with decent progression yet hex lord takes us 10 tries.

Im not sure why halazzi can take 6 tries or sometimes not at all. I honestly dont see how people (from a prev post) could do it in kara/heroic gear. Seriously. I dont see how they don't OOM on fights or have problems keeping a halazzi tank alive. Or raid members for that matter.

And im amazed how easy people claim the last boss is, after my experience this weekend.

[rottentomato]

ya know...i dont think dragonhawk is very tough anymore. we let pally/mage/lock spawn one whole side...on first bomb we down him as he runs across, 2nd spawns, we kill one of them, and let the other do the same thing while everyone else DPSes it down...pretty simple. even let him enrage and burn through it. pretty simple if we are just cautious on the pulls leading to him.


zj still troublesome...we're clearing to him tomorrow and getting a couple more attempts in so we'll see how it works.

[moopy]

Dragonhawk is troublesome until people find the balance of how many eggs they can cope with at once. Once you find your comfort zone, it should be a one-shot. Until then, he can be a right bast.

YG,

For undergeared raids, having a dedicated healer for each tank on the lynx boss helps, and a raid healer (like a druid, as the raid should be spread) that helps them out eases the strain- with the raid under orders to use their health stones, bandages, pots, whatever. I guess in t4ish gear, having the tanks flask up is a must, as they get hit hard. If they always spread the cleave thingy between the two tanks, it's doable. The healers shouldn't be too precious to chain pot, and if you can throw a shadow priest into the mix, it helps a lot.