KB ninjas

[Super Sneaky Steve]

I'm not sure how you guys feel about this. But if I'm in a BG and I've basically dualed some one and they are about to die, do you get mad when someone walks up and finishes your guy off for you?

On the one hand I do get a little upset because I did all the work and somone else get the KB.

On the other hand I realize that BG's are kinda hectic and it doesn't really matter who gets the KB. As far as I know it's just for bragging rights anyway.

[odinsnephew]

Not really. It's meant to be teamwork. I dont play for bragging rights and couldnt give 2 hoots who has the most KB's etc.

Also what are they meant to do? Take a quick nap whilst you are stroking yourself? My horde elf rogue could paint her nails whilst waiting for "your kill" I suppose ;)

[PlayThemAll]

For me BG's are for fulfilling the objective, not about dueling, KB's or HK's,

I always try to finish off the low health people as quick as possible and move on, and I expect others to do the same.

[jschild]

KB's mean exactly nothing. Same with HK's.

Even though I feel good when i top the damage in a BG, that means nothing to.

Only thing that matters is did you do your job, and did you win. Nothing else counts at all.

[Twoflower]

KB's mean exactly nothing. Same with HK's.

cannot agree realy.

KB's mean nothing, i agree. But HK's mean honor, which is everything.

[jschild]

But it means nothing personally because at least KB's mean you attacked or helped attack a target.

I get HK's regardless of what I do as long as I am nearby. The honor is good, but in terms of work done, it doesn't mean anything. Thats kinda what I meant.

[Magikhat]

killing blows...who cares.

[Twoflower]

I get HK's regardless of what I do as long as I am nearby. The honor is good, but in terms of work done, it doesn't mean anything. Thats kinda what I meant.

dont you have to be a active part of the kill to get honor from it ( healing the killer or doing damage to the victim yourself ) ? i always assumed that. That's why i always AoE with my mage and hot and dot everything that moves with my priest.

i know it aint the most helpful way in terms of teamplay, but i confess i am in it for the honor and nothing else.

[PlayThemAll]

Some days I can get to the top of the HK's with my pali just by healing and buffing everyone.

Do aura's cound towards that?

Somehow I still find it odd that I can get a lot HK's with 0 damage done.

[jschild]

Nope. You don't have to do anything other than being in range. Watch in AV, run into a group and don't do anything for a sec, you will see 1 honor, 1 honor, etc pop up constantly.

[jschild]

You just have to be in range of the battle, nothing else. Otherwise healers would get shafted.

[frimley]

I'm not sure how you guys feel about this. But if I'm in a BG and I've basically dualed some one and they are about to die, do you get mad when someone walks up and finishes your guy off for you?

On the one hand I do get a little upset because I did all the work and somone else get the KB.

You're there as a team to beat the enemy. Simple as. If you want to duel, go hang out outside Orgrimmar or Ironforge.

Had a guy /w me in a BG once, basically having a go at me for "stealing" his KBs. I told him to kill stuff faster and it wouldn't happen. :tongue:

[Twoflower]

oh didnt know that jschild. thx for the info.

[jschild]

No problem. That's why I ignore any of the stats generally. Nothing wrong in taking pride, but none of them, even healing, mean nothing if not done in the right way.

Healing the wrong people and losing the node means you still lost the node.

Topping damage in AV, killing Npc's, means nothing if you don't help defend or take out towers.

KB's mean nothing if you did 1% of the damage to them and they would have died a second later, while you ignored the person stealing the flag.

HK's mean nothing if you didn't contribute and just leeched off those around you.

Just focus on learning how to best to contribute to the team and you will be alright.

[Mirinda]

I'm not sure how you guys feel about this. But if I'm in a BG and I've basically dualed some one and they are about to die, do you get mad when someone walks up and finishes your guy off for you?

On the one hand I do get a little upset because I did all the work and somone else get the KB.

On the other hand I realize that BG's are kinda hectic and it doesn't really matter who gets the KB. As far as I know it's just for bragging rights anyway.

I was in Arathi Basin the other day when some guy whispered to me something about "nice KBS." This was new nomenclature to me, but in bg chat I soon understood what it meant.

This moron kept griping in chat THE WHOLE MATCH LONG about people stealing his kills. The rest of us were working for a win. Absolutely nobody shared any sympathy for this selfish punk.

What did I do wrong? Use my mage talent of molten fury and finish off a warrior with a fire blast. Hooboy! I sinned. Prevented the Horde from gy zerging the Stables again.

Of course, the complainer was a ret paladin.

[Mirinda]

But it means nothing personally because at least KB's mean you attacked or helped attack a target.

I get HK's regardless of what I do as long as I am nearby. The honor is good, but in terms of work done, it doesn't mean anything. Thats kinda what I meant.

Rogues often play that type of character because they want to win solo battles, and Bliz has given them all the tools they should need to do that. The toon design doesn't encourage team play, and I can't count how many times stealthy rogues have watched me die rather than help with an opponent. They just gotta perfectly set up their attack on an out-of-combat target so they can get another kill without getting touched. Makes me sick.

[figgum]

i gotta weigh in on this cuz its a peev of mine...who the heck cares about damage and kills? yeah, i think its cool to see my name at the top of the list, and i see where you are coming from...but i'd rather have 3 bgmarks and no kills, than one bg mark and top the damage list, y'know? in wg...i really dont care..its all about slowing them until we pig pile the runner. and personlly...if i was dueling in a bg, and saw a teammate standing there watching without firing off a shot, id be more pissed about that. :)

[Tanitha]

i gotta weigh in on this cuz its a peev of mine...who the heck cares about damage and kills?

Wnning the Battelground is the prime objective. However, depending on an individual player's role they might want to top a certain part of the meters.

Take for example a level 19 twink Affliction Lock in WSG. They do not make good flagrunners (No speed boosts, no snare avoidance mechanisms, etc.) so their prime role is? Damage. Pure, unadulterated damage. Soften up the opposing team through dots to make things easier for your team to mop them up around the flag carrier. That player you want to see top the damage meter.

Take a healer going into the battleground. They make reasonable flag runners, but ideally you want to see them topping the healing meter.

Etc.

[Illiana]

It's only logical to try and dps down the target with the lowest amount of hitpoints first - sure, you could go for the full health warrior instead of the almost dead warlock, but that would just be plain stupid. The situation is slightly different if the fight you run into is a 1 vs 1, but I for one can only see the red healthbars of the opposing faction, not the healthbars of members of my own faction... Sure, I could wait with attacking and first check to see if my factionmate is winning already, but if he wasn't, my hesitation probably just got him killed. So yeah, that sometimes leads to me stealing a killing blow. It also leads to grateful whispers on occasion. :grin:

[YamahaGuy]

I'm not sure how you guys feel about this. But if I'm in a BG and I've basically dualed some one and they are about to die, do you get mad when someone walks up and finishes your guy off for you?

On the one hand I do get a little upset because I did all the work and somone else get the KB.

On the other hand I realize that BG's are kinda hectic and it doesn't really matter who gets the KB. As far as I know it's just for bragging rights anyway.


Yea, as an arms warrior when I do BG's its really annoying sometimes; you get a hunter or whatnot that like follows you around and finishes off all your work, srsly

But at the same time, im positive I do it myself, especially if its cloth or low on health imma kill it regardles who what why how

But I dont like, pick someone and follow them around and play off them. Thats really annoying.

So eh.

[Tanitha]

Out of curiosity Steve and Yamaha, which faction / class / race do you guys normally play?

[Super Sneaky Steve]

SoR Retribution Human Paladin. I hate being hord. I have one horde rogue that I play on a PVP server sometimes just to make my friend happy.

The situation I was talking about was when I do a premade with my guild. We often win 2000/0 so winning is a given. After that it's for bragging rights. Anytime I can beat our oober loc Dave in KB's I rub it in his face!

[xDarkDrifterx]

Nope, doesn't bother me one bit, and that includes when I'm on my twink.

A BG isn't about any one persons KB's - it's about completing objectives to win the battle, the killing is just a side note. I don't care if I kill them or someone else kills them as long as they die and we protect the node, gain the node, get the flag, protect the flag, etc. Besides generally there's so many fireballs, frostbolts, arrows, and dot's on dudes that you usually can't be absolutely sure who got the killing blow anyway.

[YamahaGuy]

The claim that its a "team objective" is fine and I wont cry over spilled milk if someone lands a blow on this, or that while were fighting in the mess.

What bothers me, as stated, is when some ranged DPS class "picks me" to follow around and snipes everything I touch.

Out of curiosity Steve and Yamaha, which faction / class / race do you guys normally play?

Arms warrior, alliance, near full PVP gear (S2/S3 plus honor epic accessories ) cept a couple items. My healadin partner (kombat medic!) similar gear quality.

But im more ticked off that over the weekend, almost every BG I joined was filled with alliance who said "let them win and get your mark". In one game, almost the ENTIRE TEAM was at the stables and a good number of them decided to "queue again after another quick mark game". Then i get stuck with the same lamers

But I digress. *shakes fist* lamer alliance

[Mirinda]

Besides generally there's so many fireballs, frostbolts, arrows, and dot's on dudes that you usually can't be absolutely sure who got the killing blow anyway.

Deadly Boss Mods has a battleground mod with audio announcement of your killing blows.

[xDarkDrifterx]

Deadly Boss Mods has a battleground mod with audio announcement of your killing blows.

Funny, I have DBM - though I didn't know it had that audio annoucement, guess that shows that I don't care about the killing blow that much (as long they die and I take part in it, then I get some honor from it and that makes it fine with me). Though I'm generally top 3 on my hunter, top 3 on my 29 twink rogue, and top 5 with my 69 mage, so I never really worry about it. :wink:

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

I'm not sure how you guys feel about this. But if I'm in a BG and I've basically dualed some one and they are about to die, do you get mad when someone walks up and finishes your guy off for you?

Nope. Means the person I was fighting is dead, time to move to the next one. Dueling is pointless, especially in BG's. It isn't how often or how well you fight against one person, it is how good your force is against the other at completing whatever objectives there are.

On the one hand I do get a little upset because I did all the work and somone else get the KB.

What does the killing blow matter? Honestly?

On the other hand I realize that BG's are kinda hectic and it doesn't really matter who gets the KB. As far as I know it's just for bragging rights anyway.

Who cares about killing blows? Seriously! Big freaking deal, y'know? It isn't the point of a battleground at all. It is a throw-away statistic.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

I'm not sure how you guys feel about this. But if I'm in a BG and I've basically dualed some one and they are about to die, do you get mad when someone walks up and finishes your guy off for you?

Nope. Means the person I was fighting is dead, time to move to the next one. Dueling is pointless, especially in BG's. It isn't how often or how well you fight against one person, it is how good your force is against the other at completing whatever objectives there are.

On the one hand I do get a little upset because I did all the work and somone else get the KB.

What does the killing blow matter? Honestly?

On the other hand I realize that BG's are kinda hectic and it doesn't really matter who gets the KB. As far as I know it's just for bragging rights anyway.

Who cares about killing blows? Seriously! Big freaking deal, y'know? It isn't the point of a battleground at all. It is a throw-away statistic.

SoR Retribution Human Paladin. I hate being hord. I have one horde rogue that I play on a PVP server sometimes just to make my friend happy.

The situation I was talking about was when I do a premade with my guild. We often win 2000/0 so winning is a given. After that it's for bragging rights. Anytime I can beat our oober loc Dave in KB's I rub it in his face!

Ok, I fail to see any value in running through a BG that is a sure-thing 2000/0 win. It would bore me to tears -- absolutely no competition, no challenge, no excitement. I prefer close fights. Heck, I like a good long, drawn-out fight which is exciting and fast-paced where the two sides keep shifting back and forth as to who's the winner. Sure things are like going hunting by shooting fish in a barrel. It just seems... well.... pointless to me.

And for me, in BG's, I either play my 70 Dwarf Hunter, or my 70 Tauren Druid. In world PvP, it depends on which character I'm playing at the time... but I do have a tendency to switch over to Horde to go up against my own guildmates for kicks (despite my guild leader getting in the occasional conniption fit over me killing her mage a few times... or my roommate getting upset as I regularly target his warlock specifically as my first kill).

[corga]

if you wanna look at anything look at damage and healing or the node captures and flag runs. at the start of every battleground I click the top on the stat that says damage.

[Imraath]

KB's mean nothing. HK's mean you get punished for defending nodes that aren't under attack.

This whole "score" system in the battlegrounds is mindless and actually ruins a lot of the experience, IMO.

[xDarkDrifterx]

HK's mean you get punished for defending nodes that aren't under attack.

What? :ponder: More HK's = more overall honor for you.

This whole "score" system in the battlegrounds is mindless and actually ruins a lot of the experience, IMO.

IMO, no it doesn't, it only messes with the BG as a whole when too many focus on their stupid score instead of the task at hand (and that's usually only a few people).

[Tanitha]

What? :ponder: More HK's = more overall honor for you.

Players that stick to nodes to defend them are punished on the score charts because they do not rank highly (Low KB's, HK's, Damage, etc.) even though they are performing a function that is vital to winning the game.

That's what Imraath was saying, I think. As to the main topic? I'm biting my tongue.

[xDarkDrifterx]

Players that stick to nodes to defend them are punished on the score charts because they do not rank highly (Low KB's, HK's, Damage, etc.) even though they are performing a function that is vital to winning the game.

Oh I see what he's saying. Well, yes and no.

If you pick the right node to defend, you'll be on the top of charts as well IMO. The other night on my 69 mage I was #2 overall in KB's and Damage, and never left the mine, they just kept coming and coming and trying to take it and they never got it from us. Same thing happens all the time when I play D in WSG (I'm at the top of the charts) - everyone hates frost mage defenders. :wink:

[Tanitha]

If you pick the right node to defend, you'll be on the top of charts as well IMO. The other night on my 69 mage I was #2 overall in KB's and Damage, and never left the mine, they just kept coming and coming and trying to take it and they never got it from us.

Yes, that is the slightly more selfish perspective.

But while you are there holding one node under heavy assault and glorying in your array of KBs and damage and whatnot, if your team is 3/2 up there are (hopefully!) 2 other nodes being defended by players who effectively put themselves out of contention on the charts to help keep that score at 3/2.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

Yes, that is the slightly more selfish perspective.

But while you are there holding one node under heavy assault and glorying in your array of KBs and damage and whatnot, if your team is 3/2 up there are (hopefully!) 2 other nodes being defended by players who effectively put themselves out of contention on the charts to help keep that score at 3/2.

Precisely.

[PlayThemAll]

Yes, that is the slightly more selfish perspective.

But while you are there holding one node under heavy assault and glorying in your array of KBs and damage and whatnot, if your team is 3/2 up there are (hopefully!) 2 other nodes being defended by players who effectively put themselves out of contention on the charts to help keep that score at 3/2.

I've spend many a BG standing around defending a node and doing nothing for the entire battle. Boring yes, beneficial to the group effort when noone else will defend a node, possibly.

I'd rather be bored and get my 3 tokens then to top the charts and only get 1.

Per my experience winning always gets more honor then losing

[madman68]

Take a healer going into the battleground. They make reasonable flag runners, but ideally you want to see them topping the healing meter.

Etc.

In WSG, my healer runs next to the flag carrier. All I do is spam shield and renew.

[Tanitha]

In WSG, my healer runs next to the flag carrier. All I do is spam shield and renew.

And you will be much loved. Honestly, the power of healers are understimated in a Battle Ground. If you're in a BG with a Healer and they are actually healing, be kind and drop them a "Thank you" when you have the chance. They're often underappreciated when they frequently turn the battle. (Spoken in general there)

There's one healer ... a Dwarf priest in our 19 twink battlegroup. Not Fearward. Not Cantkillthis. It's a name like that, I'll remember her if I see her again. She is awesome. Utterly utterly awesome. She picks up the flag and all you see are these two stubby legs and a big old flag, all the way back to her base. And that golden shield around her.

The only way to kill her is to burn her mana down and that usually takes a concerted effort between a group of us.

[xDarkDrifterx]

Yes, that is the slightly more selfish perspective.

:ponder:

How is that situation selfish in any way? Your generalities about my emotional states while attempting to help my team win a BG is a bit insulting.

"glorying in your array of KBs and damage and whatnot" is far from how I am.

You're assuming (in this example) that I would notice a node being heavily attacked and go there only to get KB's etc and then what would you assume I do? Follow around the masses from node to node getting as many KB's as possible?

No, I go to an assigned node (if one's given) and I generally stay there defending the entire game. My point was, if you're lucky enough to be at a heavily attacked node then you may be at the top, and that's awesome considering you may be one of the few actually Defending. If you're not, oh well, because the BG isn't about KB's etc, it's about completing the objective as I said in earlier posts. Also, I don't even open the BG Table except for at the beginning to see who we're up against. It's only later when I'm standing around bored, waiting for incoming etc, that I even glance at it.

This may seem a bit over the top as a response but I do not like the people that play and judge themselves the entire game by looking at that chart and to be grouped into that bunch of yahoo's is annoying. :wink:

[Tanitha]

How is that situation selfish in any way?

Not meant as insulting, my apologies. You know I :heart: you. But go read the post it was a response to again.

If you pick the right node to defend, you'll be on the top of charts as well IMO

You said that picking the right node to defend would see the player top the charts.

Yes, it would. But that would be a selfish way of looking at it, because while that player would - others defending would not. They did not have the luxury of picking the right node, but needed to stay and hold the other nodes the team had.

Edit for a P.S.: I check the score everytime I die and have to wait for a Spirit Heal. As an Affliction Warlock, I can't snare, at the level my current main is at I don't have a snare, and I have no means to escape them either etc. Bad Flag runner. I'm very vulnerable to rogues and general melee, especially when they're also twinked out, so my utility as a sole defender is low. My main role is to act as a softener in the mid field, by doing as much damage to as many targets as possible. Occasionally I accompany the flag runner for a bit to Fear people off him, or to Fear somebody with our flag back into the melee mob chasing them. But generally? I must do damage, otherwise I'm losing the game for my team. So I check damage to see if I'm doing alright.

[YamahaGuy]

KB's are prolly my number 1 motivation and the fact I love to kill other players (especially blood elves) NO I almost never sit and defend something... the itch to kill just wont let me do it. Most PuG random BG's I leave with top killing blows and a lot of times most damage done.

Its a win win concept. if I kill 4-5 people around the EotS flag in succession, I contributed to winning. If I broke off from the group to go take 2-3 people out and cap a base, I contributed. If I stopped 1/2 or even 1/3 the people from crossing the field in WSG including flag runners, I made an impact on the game.

I cant help feeling it but when something like... a rogue on my team has only 3-5 kills at the end of the match that HE wasnt doing much to help the effort. Theres clothies all over this map, go do your thing of perma-stun-kill that all our clothies moan about

[xDarkDrifterx]

You said that picking the right node to defend would see the player top the charts.

Yes I did, I see how that gave you that impression. I should have stated that a bit differently. :grin:

:flowers: back @ you.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

I've spend many a BG standing around defending a node and doing nothing for the entire battle. Boring yes, beneficial to the group effort when noone else will defend a node, possibly.

I'd rather be bored and get my 3 tokens then to top the charts and only get 1.

Per my experience winning always gets more honor then losing

See, I'd rather have an exciting, close battle and lose, than be bored and win. Especially when we outmatch the opponent -- I hate that.

Mind you, I'd rather be bored and help with a win in AB by being on one of the nodes that people are ignoring, than being off fighting away from nodes and ignoring the actual point of the BG all together as well.

[Mirinda]

If someone starts griping about so-called kill stealing, I WILL follow them around and fire blast everybody they target. I'm vindictive.

The mechanics of the game work that way for fire mages. We have a 20% damage bonus on nearly dead targets. Scorch and fire blast have extra crit chances. Our PVP gear is loaded with crit. People run away when they're near dead, and we have perfect spells to kill them.

[corga]

but getting them from 100-20% is hard. And thats why i am frost for pvp (when I do it, thats usually done on my warrior)

[Wintrow]

I have to comment on the 'pick a fellow player and snipe his target' comment.

As a squishy (mage/warlock/yes, even a hunter) isn't it smarter to ahve the plate-clad hunk of meat take the blows than ourselves? I mean, all this time in instances it's been taught to let the tank take it and assist.

In BGs this works too. Warrior charges in on a 2 person team, hamstrings both (or Piercing Howl if available), targets defend themselves, suddenly BAM main target gets a nuke on the head from an assister previously unseen. Warrior executes + assister follows up if needed. Then suddenly it's 2vs1.

That warrior with a hunter tagging along should see the hunter as a dps-multiplier. Something that gets his target down faster.

[surodat]

That warrior with a hunter tagging along should see the hunter as a dps-multiplier. Something that gets his target down faster.

I wholeheartedly agree. The whole "stop following me, [I'm trying to kill the whole team by myself]" comment was one of the oddest things I've read from someone talking about BGs. Does he have the same opinion about healers? A healer who also Dots, and the last tick takes away his kill? /tinyviolin