2.4 Av

[jschild]

Mmm...all I gotta say is...6 min que times :)

Me Happy Camper.

[jschild]

Hmmm...5 AV's.

5 wins.

1hr 30min ques to 6 min ques.

I guess that means Alliance were protesting it, judging by the difference in time.

I guess that also means that the Ally in my battlegroup just suck and it had absolutely NOTHING to do with our starting point, nor Bal being super easy.

I will enjoy AV until they start whining about something else now. Maybe thier terrain isn't flat enough or something. They have to run uphill more maybe.

[Wartro]

Mmm...all I gotta say is...6 min que times :)

Me Happy Camper.

????????
ah nvm i dont want my secret to get out
/wink

[jschild]

What? for 6 min que times. If you were horde on a battlegroup that the ally was boycotting there was no shortcut, afaik.

[thulzadoom]

I dunno, I went 3 for 3 on my alliance toons in BG9. too bad it wasnt the daily.

[jschild]

Do you usually lose or win AV's though?

[Super Sneaky Steve]

We won our AV's on the alliance side. Que times for the other battleground were insanely long. Usualy they are all just a few seconds for me.

[jschild]

Well, in his case i was wonder if they usually won them or not.

IE, for us, we won just like we always did, but queue times were finally short.

[Beruen]

On my BG, we went from AV wins being so rare they were crowed about in trade chat, to about a 50% rate. We raided yesterday, so I didn't see how it worked, just talked to people that did. For all I know, we'll go back to abismal AV win rates as soon as the horde get used to their new starting position.

[jschild]

Thats exactly what I am talking about. Ally is getting some honor now, but all of our wins were clear and easy. To keep those 6 min queue's though, I'd be happy to lose alot more as long as it was a loss with honor.

[thulzadoom]

I had been in maybe 2 winning ones as alliance since November. I did notice it was back to the zerg mentality so we'll see how long that lasts. Since I can play from both sides of the equation, I see that the new horde starting area had a good effect on the beginning of the match. They should buff the NPC's and make it more like the PVE experience it was.I kind of miss the old AV although not the 12 hour + games. Of course this means my horde toon is going to get less honor now......

[jschild]

In another promising development, both sides are seeming to agree to zerg more often.

Queue's are down to 1 min and finally lost an AV yesterday. 380-360 honor.

I'd gladly lose half of my AV's for losses like that and 1 min queue's.

[PlayThemAll]

Mmm...all I gotta say is...6 min que times :)

Me Happy Camper.

If I had to wait 6 min all the time I would go out of my mind. I guess I'm spoiled. I really am amazed at the vast difference in queue times between battlegroups.

I haven't been in the BG's in a few weeks, I may have to revive my Pali and check out the 2.4 changes.

[jschild]

Well, when the Alliance refuses to play "Because the maps not fair", there isn't much you can do. Before this patch, it was 1.5 to 2hrs during peak time. For one freaking game.

Your Paladin finally has Res too! Woot!

[Antrin]

Since the change I have played 6 AV's on my Alliance Mage and we went 5/6 wins. The one losss we still got 330 honor.

I can remember going into AV before 2.4 and getting crap honor. I approve the changes.

[irogue]

It seems to be much fair to both sides after the 2.4 patch. Alliance got like 30% - 50% chance to win instead of 1% and the honor earned jumped to 200 - 300 for the losers instead of 0-20.

Alliance folks are happy and there are 30+ games in AV when you open the window with the AV battle master.

Horde can still turtle AV by sending 30 ppl to defend and 10 to offend and that results in a 45+ minutes long game. I am not sure why or what kind of mentality is this sort. Yes, you (horde) win 500-600 against 0-40 in 45-60 minutes.

However, both side can rush to the enemy’s base and pick up the towers/bunkers on their way. The game will be done in 12 minutes and winner takes 400-500 honor points while the loser takes 200-300 honor points.

[jschild]

Yeah, I totally agree. I don't mind the "smash the first wave" of alliance, but huge amounts staying there serve little purpose.

[vinmisc]

Horde on Nightfall are winning often now. It was pathetic before 2.4, when Alliance totally dominated.

In 2.4, when we win its like 380:340 honor Horde:Alliance.
But when Alliance wins, they win by a landslide, 512:125 ish.

I would prefer the 3xx honor for both sides rather than the 2nd option anyday, any realm.

[jschild]

Why would you start winning more than before? Every change favored ally? Did horde on your server finally start defending some because no mechanics were changed to make it easier for you to win.

[moopy]

Heh, queue times are about 12 mins for me, the horde don't like the fact that Balinda isn't soloable. Cry more.

[jschild]

Lol, depends on the server. Horde still easily rule my battlegroup, but Ally are playing at least.

12 min queue....like that is long.

[moopy]

It is that, quelle dommage.

[Pisken]

<1 minute queue (as before patch) .... and 0% win ratio (before it was around 50%) .... the good thing is that it takes usually 10 min to get a mark and the greater honor Q grants some honor ....

We cant win anymore in AV ... did MANY games at different times (night/day/evening) and came up with 0 ... yes ZERO wins , it was hard before , impossible now :sad: .... it feels like i just did my last AV tonight.(or did i ran out of luck with the raidmembers i end up with)

//Horde player on Rampage Battlegroup (only pvp servers in it)

[Findariel]

In my BG alliance won 80% of the AV battles and still does.
Nothing really changed.

The horde demands a bridge chokepoint as well!

[jschild]

Defend and slow push.

Break their first wave and slowly work them back.

[Cattleya]

Heh, queue times are about 12 mins for me, the horde don't like the fact that Balinda isn't soloable. Cry more.

Nah, we're just having fun in WSG again. (And waiting for the "weekend horde" to get bored and stop playing AV again so we don't have to hear people ***** when someone takes SF. Okay, ***** as much...)

[Trakamoocow]

The strat still holds, talked to many a 'non weekend pvper' about this.

Strat one, huge defence, take all gy 'scorched earth' push to alliance base. Grindtastic 30-40 minute match. Honour negotiable.

Strat two, good defence (15 or so) cut them off before they cap anything worthwhile (i.e the gys, then recap the towers, when time permits). They'll still be spawning at SP, whilst SF caps, so their 'supply line' lets your defence win if they're smart. At this point, your offense are holding the first two towers, and as your D grinds their initial push, and you can generally gank bal with O.

Boom, SF caps. Your D are getting good kills, slowing down their offensive still (which is 2 towers behind and counting). Your unfettered offense pushes SP and/or aid station and the last 2 towers. At this point your remaining D can push up or do whatever they desire, there is no way (short of a lack of tower defenders for offense) for alliance to win. They will not kill your endboss with 4 commanders still standing. Length of match - 12-20mins. Honner, tons for horde, not as good for allie ;).

Doesnt always work, completely dependant on how many muppets you have in either group. etc.

[irogue]

I just leveled my mage to 60 and played 4 AV and lost 4. :smiley:

1. Everytime I entered, we had 40 horde vs 20s alliance.
2. Level 60 Rogues cut my mage like butter. I felt like fighting with twinks.

I did enjoy the AOE and sheeping.

[Memkel]

I keep losing AV in my battlegroup as Alliance after 2.4. We used to win about 70% of them before, I'd say. Boooo! :P

[Pisken]

hahah... i havent won A SINGLE AV since patch (horde) , not even trying anymore

[TPMdm]

The new starting placement for horde and the increased difficulty of Balinda have force the horde in my BG to play a slower paced defensive game which doesn't force an alliance turtle. Our matches are longer, horde wins more, and they are more lopsided victories so now the que times are increasing (on my Battlegroup anyway). I prefer the new game play (and more honor per match is nice) but I don't like the increased que times.

[Beruen]

I keep losing AV in my battlegroup as Alliance after 2.4. We used to win about 70% of them before, I'd say. Boooo! :P

Not saying it can't happen, but I have to wonder how that happened, seeing as every 2.4 AV change I'm aware of favored the Alliance. Maybe with the new starting position, your horde finally decided they needed to adapt to the changes that happened in 2.3?

[tabstercat]

on my realm Balzannar..

at 60 us horde wait 25mins for AV queue then get totally pwned by those suckers with a name so disgusting i casn't say it..

Alliance..

WTF is wrong horde pull urself together..

[Maoileoin]

Has anyone else noticed the increased incessant whining of the Horde side since 2.4 about no defense? I swear there are no less than 30 complaints per match about no defense. People complain about losing because we don't have defense but 75% of the matches that we lose, I find it is because we're sitting at the ally base twiddling our thumbs waiting for a tank and healer because not enough people are on offense. I would rather zerg every single time, get the match over in 10 minutes win or lose, and move on to the next. For one thing, it's much more exciting, and we don't have drawn out 45 minute matches that we may lose anyway!

[drewid]

BAL is now harder? My holy Pally tanks her LOL.

It really is simple for the horde, crush the first Zerg wave at IB, then O go on rampage and leave 10 on d to mop up as the ally come back thru in dribs and drabs.

[Wintrow]

I often get games that go like this
- Offense rushes towards Iceblood Garrison
- Horde foils our attempt at killing Galv using some clever trapping and fearing (read: with a minimum of defense)
- We default to taking down towers. Defending Horde keep taking back the towers one at a time.
- Alliance gets discouraged
- I peptalk them back up (unsuccesfully)
- I quietly gather a strikeforce at Galv and kill him before Horde defense can react
- Alliance morale goes back up and destroys the towers
- Horde defense gives up, we cap Relief Hut and soon pwn Drek

All the while we see in chat:
"Soldiers of Stormpike, your General is under attack! I require aid! Come! Come! Slay these mangy Frostwolf dogs."
shortly followed by
"You'll never get me out of me bunker, heathens!"

So one time I stealthed into his bunker, thinking I'd do some defense and I see Vanndar standing there with two wing commanders alive. Vann himself is off course extra buffed by this, so every time some brave/stupid Horde pulls them he proceeds to smash him into little bits and resets back. I don't know what they were waiting for, but must've been a tank or something.... or waiting for the rest to destroy our last towers.

That's the great thing of being a druid tank. Stealth to wherever, "anyone need a tank?".

[theshard]

In Shadowburn battlegroup, 10-12 minute queues and 50% win/loss ratio. Of those wins, 50% are usually to killing all the reinforments and we never even see the general to kill him.

[Trakamoocow]

Horde problems in general:

Not camping what you cap (hello towers!)
Fighting on the road (you know which road)
Recapping Snowfall Graveyard (you force your offence to push through their entire team, this is dumb)
Insufficient Defence (yes defence is a good idea, as long as they spawn at SF GY). 10-15 is good.
Not riding to flags then capping (with distraction at the GY itself so you can actually cap).
Fighting on the f#*(&@# bridge.
Waiting too long to ninja mines and the last 2 towers (really, 3-4 people ninja teams make a huge difference to alliance morale).

Get a team that doesn't stuff up as above, it's a win.

Oh and defence not being muppet enough to not recap towers they manage to take. Towers really are the key to the match. Distractable people that can't prioritize these past other goals (OMFG I R TEH GANKZ0R1!!!111eleventy) screw you over.

[mesonm]

BAL is now harder? My holy Pally tanks her LOL.

It really is simple for the horde, crush the first Zerg wave at IB, then O go on rampage and leave 10 on d to mop up as the ally come back thru in dribs and drabs.

necro thread ftw

[Kwintus5]

Gief back Old AV but with the reinforcement system of today. :D that would rock!

Or just even out the honor you get from all battlegrounds in comparison to AV.

[drewid]

Dont CAP SF gy!!!!
is a very common comment in the horde AVs. It is obviously a smart move otherwise we get a turtle on the road to the alliance base, but if hodre has no D??.

If both teams zerg its easier for the Alliance to slow the Horde down and we lose. So if there is no defence on the horde side, as a defender getting over run i think it is smarter to actually take SF GY. Obviously this will cause the turtle. But Horde will win the reinforcement battle and control 90% of the map.
As a defender (normally one of very FEW) im sick of getting pwnd constantly in 6-1 fights, then getting yelled at for not protecting or recapping towers, with numbers like 30 - 5 odds against the horde D. So im thinking of saying skrew u O if no one will help defend then SF is getting capped!!

Also why the heck dont horde drop down into the valley on the left of the road to ally base and go around under bridge and come out at the back of the ally GY????? this would cause huge confusion on the ally side and open up the turtle on the main road in. this gives us three access points to the GY
and we could be fighting on the flag not in a bottle neck.
Then mount up and ride into the north and south towers rather than fighting on the bridge, Fight in the Towers!!!!

[Trakamoocow]

No, for a very good reason. You will have some initial D (5-10 max tbh, tower recappers) who'll do their job down that end.

Alliance get sfgy quickest, and it stops them from spawning back at their base. You DONT want a reinf win, it's inefficient as hell. And painful. You have 5-10 people recapping towers, and def on the towers you cap. All you're doing is a delaying action, you cap theirs, they cap (less) of yours. Taking sfgy forces you to grind their entire raid (worst case).

So give them it, and enjoy the quicker, better honour. You wont win every one, but a quick games a good game, and generally far better hp/hr.

[Stormblack]

Personally i dislike playing for 'efficient' honour instead of to beat the opposition by better play/coordination. BG's 'd be a better place if people were there to compete, not to farm.

[Imraath]

Personally i dislike playing for 'efficient' honour instead of to beat the opposition by better play/coordination. BG's 'd be a better place if people were there to compete, not to farm.
There's a balance in there somewhere though. I dislike games where the opposition will just defend. They'll stack their defense and then just whittle away at reinforcements and hope for a lucky tower cap or two.

The game is there to kill the opposition's general.

[Cerberus]

I've banged my head in the wall in so many "AV favors X faction" debates that I won't even bother going over it again. I've come to the conclusion that any BG is about the amount of players that actually play the game. The amount of people that actually will try to do objectives versus the amount of people that just fight the first red thing they see is what determines who wins 90% of the time.

A good 5 man team defending towers/bunkers running back and forth between them will win you the game and noone in the zerg on the way to SP will listen no matter what you do. They simply just spawn and start fighting. You see this in AB and WSG as well. You have the people that zerg stables/farm in AB and the people that start fighting midfield and stay there in WSG. They don't care about the game or understand enough to do something useful.

Having a certain amount of people that don't care about the teamplay aspect is unavoidable when you get a random bunch of people with different motivations and reasons to play the game. It's the "It's my $s" argument and you can't really argue with it in a pug BG.

[Stormblack]

The game is there to kill the opposition's general. Not anymore. That's just one way of winning (and an extremely difficult one to pull off unless you just ignore competing in PVP and mutually zerg).

As regards that defensive point, well, defense is an option, if you can properly coordinate your own defense there will be no lucky caps and the enemy team will soon enough be forced to weaken their def to try to make a gain. A purely defensive strategy will hardly ever win and their own team will usually feel equally inclined to try to break the deadlock. There are also defense breakers - the ice lord and the treant although they do remain hard to organise in pugs admittedly. Ultimately though, if the sides're evenly matched you have to expect some matches where you can't break them, there's little point condemning them for holding their own.

I still feel that, had you less people who's only interest is farming honour/afking such situations would probably decrease in regularity. But hey, might as well wish for world peace and puppies since humans are in the equation. :p