What's wrong with Swimming?

[Pharoahe]

OK this is probably going to end up a long winded / semi QQ post, but stick with it :grin:


Now I dont know if any of you have noticed this, but since 2.4 Swimming has been changed (and badly). Swimming on the surface of the water has been made pretty challenging and sometimes you'll just find yourself unable to surface (quick drown unless you have class/racials/potions/gear to help you). I have not seen any posts about this bug on the forums or by Blizz (anyone seen any, please link me). But its very very akward to the point where i will go out of my way to avoid a swim. Now i thought this may be a problem on my end, but I've had 2 other guild members confirm they have this problem too. However most of the rest are *not* having this problem.
The most odd thing is that I've recently started an Alt and she does not have these problems. Does anyone know why certain characters have this problem but others dont? Anyone have any possible solutions?

On a similar note, I've had similar problems with my flying mount (sometimes will fly straight down instead of forward), however this has been apparent even before 2.4. I'm sure the 2 problems are linked but I'm not sure how.

[dwarfenhelm]

maybe you are having problems with your mouse. sometimes i have a small piece of dust stuck up by the infra red and it has caused me to do strange things. on my wifes old pc this used to make me spin my view all over the place so i had no clue where i was looking. that was great fun in a raid as i was main guild tank at the time :)

[Pharoahe]

maybe you are having problems with your mouse. sometimes i have a small piece of dust stuck up by the infra red and it has caused me to do strange things. on my wifes old pc this used to make me spin my view all over the place so i had no clue where i was looking. that was great fun in a raid as i was main guild tank at the time :)

Thanks for the idea mate, but then wouldnt I have the problem on my alts? Also my friends are having this problem too.

If you guys like I could youtube videos of how swimming is on my main and my alt to show difference. (Have a mac, would take 5 minutes tops)

[det]

I have the mount problem where I keep going up and up and up until I hit the invisible globe around the world. I need to Alt F4 and log in, but I always associated that to my keyboard.

No swimming problems so far however....but my recent questing characters are a shammy and druid, so no wonder...

[pergolesi]

I can only report that I notice no problem on 2.4 with either swimming or flying mount on either of my 2 characters. I have noticed that the water is more transparent but that's all. You are not very precise in describing exactly what's going on here. If there was some way to describe exactly how to reproduce this bad effect you're getting I'd love to try it. You are holding down the right mouse button and pushing the mouse forward to climb, and pulling back to dive aren't you? There may be ways to reverse the mouse, but that shouldn't be a problem. I too have a Mac, maybe there is something wrong with your mouse. I have no problem swimming on the surface by just hitting autorun and letting it go. So, try to describe an experiment that we all can try to test our swimming.

[clevins]

Actually I've noticed this too... pre 2.4 it was very common for me to be able to enter the water, hit spacebar (jump) and when I landed my toon's head was still above water where it started. Now I almost always go a bit below the water. Repeatedly jumping does not straighten this out. Since I play on my laptop a lot I can't use the mouse to simply swim up slightly.

I also noticed that if I drop from a slight height into water I go below the water a bit and see the same issue. Whether this is 'correct' according to physics or not might be debatable but it's certainly new in 2.4 and it's annoying.

[Pharoahe]

Actually I've noticed this too... pre 2.4 it was very common for me to be able to enter the water, hit spacebar (jump) and when I landed my toon's head was still above water where it started. Now I almost always go a bit below the water. Repeatedly jumping does not straighten this out. Since I play on my laptop a lot I can't use the mouse to simply swim up slightly.

I also noticed that if I drop from a slight height into water I go below the water a bit and see the same issue. Whether this is 'correct' according to physics or not might be debatable but it's certainly new in 2.4 and it's annoying.

this is EXACTLY what im talking about...but it is only with my main and not my alt. It makes NO sense.
Thank you.

[pergolesi]

Well, I suppose the physics were changed a bit so that jumping into the water causes you to go below the surface, but why should that be a problem with swimming? If your horizon is tilted a bit up you'll go down and if the horizon is at or below the center of the screen you'll come up. So what's the problem? Toons in WoW never had buoyancy. That just wasn't modeled.

[Pharoahe]

Well, I suppose the physics were changed a bit so that jumping into the water causes you to go below the surface, but why should that be a problem with swimming? If your horizon is tilted a bit up you'll go down and if the horizon is at or below the center of the screen you'll come up. So what's the problem? Toons in WoW never had buoyancy. That just wasn't modeled.

youre missing the point. I cant breathe! Youre under the water, its impossible to swim on the surface.

[pergolesi]

youre missing the point. I cant breathe! Youre under the water, its impossible to swim on the surface.

I suppose the sarcastic answer is, "Swim to the surface and take a breath..duh!" but, please, I don't mean that--obviously you would if you could, so there is something preventing you which you are not describing. How is it you cant just go to and stay on the surface? Obviously you have enough time or does your breath just time out instantly? When you say you can't get to the surface exactly what are you doing to get to the surface? So you hold right mouse button, push the mouse forward move forward using w key: now does the view change? are you looking more upward now or is the view static as you move the mouse? You won't go to the surface if you aren't moving forward. Please report...

[clevins]

Well, I suppose the physics were changed a bit so that jumping into the water causes you to go below the surface, but why should that be a problem with swimming? If your horizon is tilted a bit up you'll go down and if the horizon is at or below the center of the screen you'll come up. So what's the problem? Toons in WoW never had buoyancy. That just wasn't modeled.

reading ftw? I don't play on a desktop most of the time, so simply swimming up slightly is less than easy.

And yes, toons most certainly DO have buoyancy... otherwise they'd sink like a rock unless you actively swum up all of the time.

[Pharoahe]

I suppose the sarcastic answer is, "Swim to the surface and take a breath..duh!" but, please, I don't mean that--obviously you would if you could, so there is something preventing you which you are not describing. How is it you cant just go to and stay on the surface? Obviously you have enough time.

How many times must i repeat the same thing? Do you have trouble reading?

I'll spell it out
1. I enter water
2. I am automatically under and need to rise for breathe
3. I try by going up
4. 9 times out 10 i will surface for 1 second and then be straight back under.
5. Sometimes I am unable to even surface
6. This is an annoying bug.
7. My Guildies (a handful) have this same problem.
8. This problem is only on *some* of my toons.
9. This has NOTHING to do with the camera. We are talking about BREATHING & being stuck underwater. Bloody hell...

Do you get this now?????
Some people on this forum are truely pathetic. Say one thing about an in game bug and the reply is "zAMG l2play nab, BLIZZ IS ALWAYS RIGHT BUGZ NO EXIST!!!!"

[theshard]

How many times must i repeat the same thing? Do you have trouble reading?

I'll spell it out
1. I enter water
2. I am automatically under and need to rise for breathe
3. I try by going up
4. 9 times out 10 i will surface for 1 second and then be straight back under.
5. Sometimes I am unable to even surface
6. This is an annoying bug.
7. My Guildies (a handful) have this same problem.
8. This problem is only on *some* of my toons.
9. This has NOTHING to do with the camera. We are talking about BREATHING & being stuck underwater. Bloody hell...

Do you get this now?????
Some people on this forum are truely pathetic. Say one thing about an in game bug and the reply is "zAMG l2play nab, BLIZZ IS ALWAYS RIGHT BUGZ NO EXIST!!!!"

If your camera is from an underwater point-of-view, your character will also be underwater. Angle your view above the water line and you should be fine. Also disable any mods will trying this. And the best thing I ever bought for playing on my laptop was an extra mouse to use instead of the pad.

[pergolesi]

Pharoahe: You seem like a very angry person to me. You are obviously not understanding my questions, so try to read more carefully.

First off, when a person has a problem with a piece of software it is important that he exactly describe his problem and what he has tried to fix it. If you'd spent any amount of time on the phone with tech support for anything you'd know that. All you have said is that you're stuck underwater but have failed to even try to communicate what you're doing to get to the surface. So your #3 is without content or explanation. If you are trying to use a laptop mousepad, as Clevins says he does, you failed to mention that. It seems so obvious, it's very hard to play WoW without a 2 or 3 button mouse, it might be possible, but why try? So easy to plug in a mouse.

It seems to me that if there is no problem with the view, that is, holding R mouse button you aim your character upward and you are moving forward you should be going up at the same time. Are you saying that you're moving forward in the water without either rising or sinking? And/or that once on the surface you then sink below the surface despite the fact that your character's orientation is (as is necessary) slightly upward? WoW doesn't have an artificial horizon but you can mostly judge where the horizon would be.

A person needs to know those things before they can understand what's happening. If you don't want to explain this I guess you're just stuck underwater. Sorry.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

How many times must i repeat the same thing? Do you have trouble reading?

I'll spell it out
1. I enter water
2. I am automatically under and need to rise for breathe
3. I try by going up
4. 9 times out 10 i will surface for 1 second and then be straight back under.
5. Sometimes I am unable to even surface
6. This is an annoying bug.
7. My Guildies (a handful) have this same problem.
8. This problem is only on *some* of my toons.
9. This has NOTHING to do with the camera. We are talking about BREATHING & being stuck underwater. Bloody hell...

Do you get this now?????
Some people on this forum are truely pathetic. Say one thing about an in game bug and the reply is "zAMG l2play nab, BLIZZ IS ALWAYS RIGHT BUGZ NO EXIST!!!!"

By going up, do you mean you are using spacebar/jumping? Because that won't work like it used to any more, You need to point the camera in such a way that you are looking a bit up, and then swim forward, you reach the surface then. If you are just jumping to go up, you'll always end back under the water now.

It has EVERYTHING to do with the camera angle. If you look up, or at least above the horizon, you will swim up. It is kind of a basic concept in this game, for being able to, well, swim or use a flying mount... If you can't do it, I'm sorry, but it is how things are since 2.4.

Attacking people who are trying to help you doesn't exactly endear you to people either.

[Pharoahe]

thing is i was looking for help, not sarcasm, hence my annoyance.

Blizz does alot for its playing community, mac or pc. But i feel they overlook people on Laptops. Its just not practical for me to have a external mouse. Really how is a casual player meant to know about this change? Also I've tried all the camera angles and it doesnt make a difference.

Thanks for being condescending about my swimming skills. I'm still trying to master the skill of walking. My heart aches.

[clevins]

Xlorep,

right, it's NEW in 2.4. And it's annoying as hell. It would be one thing if I voluntarily submerged, but 2.4 does this to my toon (puts me underwater) when I perform actions that did NOT used to do that.

If you're on a desktop with a mouse tilting up and swimming to the surface fixes it easily but

1) i play on a laptop (for the 3rd time... come on people, read before typing, OK?)

2) it's much easier to hit spacebar and have that pop you to the surface (like it has until now) and

3)you didn't used to need to mess around with this - it's new and IMO broken in 2.4. I can't see any good reason for this change.

pergolesi,

Quit being so damn arrogant. It's annoying and from what I've seen of your posts unwarranted. You ignore what Pharoahe and I say and reiterate useless information. Say something useful and we might listen. Try the condescending game and you just look like an idiot.

[Pharoahe]

Xlorep,

right, it's NEW in 2.4. And it's annoying as hell. It would be one thing if I voluntarily submerged, but 2.4 does this to my toon (puts me underwater). If you're on a desktp with a mouse tilting up and swimming to the surface fixes it but 1) i play on a laptop (for the 3rd time... come on people, read), 2) it's much easier to hit spacebar and havr that pop you to the surface (like it has until now) and 3)you didn't used to need to mess around with this - it's new and IMO broken in 2.4. I can't see any good reason for this change.

Agree mate.

The thing is people say get a mouse. I have one, but i like playing WoW in bed or in internet cafes or at the library. Saying I should use one, is like telling a Mac user to get a PC, its just a pointless argument.

Swimming has been always bad on a laptop. Until relatively recently they didnt have a swim down button mapped (on the keyboard) when you were stuck on the surface. I think they fixed that in 2.2 or something, but its a basic thing. You cant be expected to have a mouse for BASIC functions such as this. Sure I understand I will be less capable at PvP because of the lack of a mouse, but I can still participate.

[clevins]

Swimming has been always bad on a laptop. Until relatively recently they didnt have a swim down button mapped (on the keyboard) when you were stuck on the surface.

Actually, that's still true if you're a ghost. Dying in the Coilfang instances is annoying as hell if you can't be rezzed. I have to get a mouse out JUST to submerge.

[Pharoahe]

Actually, that's still true if you're a ghost. Dying in the Coilfang instances is annoying as hell if you can't be rezzed. I have to get a mouse out JUST to submerge.

Oh god, dont remind me of the pain dude. The amount of times I have been kicked out of instances (Sunken Temple or anything in Coilfang). Now I dont even bother PuGing until I know they group wont mind ressing me (if they can). I mean how hard can it be to map the X button to this.

[pergolesi]

thing is i was looking for help, not sarcasm, hence my annoyance.

Blizz does alot for its playing community, mac or pc. But i feel they overlook people on Laptops. Its just not practical for me to have a external mouse. Really how is a casual player meant to know about this change? Also I've tried all the camera angles and it doesnt make a difference.

Thanks for being condescending about my swimming skills. I'm still trying to master the skill of walking. My heart aches.

I was not being sarcastic, I merely said, as a (not so effective) means of humor, "the sarcastic answer would be..." Because you failed to give basic information I was trying to persuade you to give more details. So you're playing on a laptop and can't have an external mouse? You might have mentioned that. Didn't you think it was important? Is that the way you talk to tech support? It's hard to imagine a situation where you can't have a mouse, maybe riding a subway, sitting under a tree or on the john? In any case I'd think it would be rather a feat to be able to do it and I'd like to hear how it is accomplished. Really. Since WoW is such an important part of life I would think you would want to provide yourself the best kind of game space possible. By the time I was lvl 40 with my main I had to do so many quests underwater I was totally familiar with swimming up and down and backwards and sideways. That you could swim just using the spacebar is a very strange concept to me. How did you do that? I only used the spacebar to leap out of the water to get attention so I never noticed any difference in its behavior.

(...) withdrawn

[Pharoahe]

The entire point of a laptop is being able to take it anywhere with you. Its just not practical to have a mouse at all times.
The reason I did not give the info I was on a laptop was because I did not realise this was a laptop problem. Which still doesnt explain why its not a problem on all my toons.
Why do you expect everyone to play with your set up? The arrogance of your posts stops me from shaking on it.

[pergolesi]

Well, if you think asking a question is arrogance...

[Herald of Doom]

The entire point of a laptop is being able to take it anywhere with you. Its just not practical to have a mouse at all times.
The reason I did not give the info I was on a laptop was because I did not realise this was a laptop problem. Which still doesnt explain why its not a problem on all my toons.
Why do you expect everyone to play with your set up? The arrogance of your posts stops me from shaking on it.

Sorry but he wasn't being arrogant. He was analyzing the problem and trying to help. You give no information about how you are doing it, so he asks questions to determine what exactly you're doing. Experiment, rule out things and find what's causing it. My guess is he works/worked at a helpdesk or has lots of experience with them. And the best suggestion would still be: get a mouse. I've used a laptop for four years and gamed a lot on it, from TBS to fps. I had a crappy Trust mouse, but it was tiny and fast enough. You can just use it on the rightside of your laptop, and yes I used this all the time while in bed. Right now I can really recommend http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Cordless-Laser-Mouse-Notebooks/dp/B000TKHBDK , tried it on my buddys laptop and works wonders.

Now as for your issue if a mouse isn't an option, as I don't have a laptop at the moment I can't test it, but have you tried these steps? http://forums.macrumors.com/archive/index.php/t-307788.html

[Pharoahe]

I'm sorry for not stating that I play on a laptop. But why call me out on it? I've played WoW on a PC for about an hour (out of /80 days played), so excuse me for not being familiar with *your* setup. Instead of berating me about not mentioning the fact, maybe you should understand that the thought might not have crossed my mind...Implying that I'm a bad player simply because I use the space bar to swim stinks of arrogance.

Ty for the links Harold.
Edit: LOL London Gooner is me, I made that thread. Thread info is a little outdated but thanks anyway. It just proves Blizz went one step forward with that patch and now just went one back for no reason whatsoever

[Herald of Doom]

I'm sorry for not stating that I play on a laptop. But why call me out on it? I've played WoW on a PC for about an hour (out of /80 days played), so excuse me for not being familiar with *your* setup. Instead of berating me about not mentioning the fact, maybe you should understand that the thought might not have crossed my mind...Implying that I'm a bad player simply because I use the space bar to swim stinks of arrogance.
Well I can't speak for him, but it looks to me like he was genuinely asking questions without the intention of belitteling. I know how sensitive written investigations are, you often have to ask questions where you expect a "no ofcourse not" but you ask them just to be sure which can seem condecending :)


Ty for the links Harold.
Edit: LOL London Gooner is me, I made that thread. Thread info is a little outdated but thanks anyway. It just proves Blizz went one step forward with that patch and now just went one back for no reason whatsoever
Haha brilliant. OK I will run to a patch of water and test some things, I just did a quick googlesearcg thats all :p.

[Pharoahe]

I started playing WoW on 5th May 2007, so I was very new when I made that thread and struggling to do the under water quest in Loch Modan.

[clevins]

Well, if you think asking a question is arrogance...
It's HOW you ask it... go back and read your post and imagine you were on the receiving end. You may or may not have meant it, but your posts here reek of a 'you dumb noob...' attitude. Given that you came across this way to both of us... it just might be you, not us.

It was especially unwarranted after my post that mentioned I was seeing the same behavior, hence it's not something that just Pharoahe is seeing.

Herald - yes, I could attach a mouse. I don't WANT to...I sit on the sofa and not near/on a table. The ports on my Macbook are on the left and I'm righthanded.

And... PLEASE READ. Sorry for the caps, but when 2 people describe the same behavior and it's new to both of us in 2.4.... you might want to stop and think "hmm, I don't see this, but maybe they're onto something."

[Pharoahe]

And... PLEASE READ. Sorry for the caps, but when 2 people describe the same behavior and it's new to both of us in 2.4.... you might want to stop and think "hmm, I don't see this, but maybe they're onto something."

I hate the whole "deal with it" attitude some people have. Blizz wants our suggestions to improve the game. They obviously want to help laptop users otherwise they wouldnt have put the X to swim button in. So saying I should alter the way I enjoy playing is counterproductive.

BTW mate can you tell me how to swim when dead if i get my mouse. Is it possible with a mighty mouse, or shall I use a two button mouse to achieve this?


Also another track pad issue; When I was new to the game I accidentally managed to get my camera stuck in first person with no idea how to get out. I was stuck in first person for week or 2 (not easy as a gnome). One day I was playing around with my mouse when I used the scroll wheel and presto I was back in normal mode. Eventually I realised that on the macbook trackpad, if you have two fingers on the pad it acts as a scroll wheel. As a relatively new Mac user & new WoW player I had no idea that this was possible. I find the camera thing is rather similar, its one of those things never really explained in fine detail. So I dont see why people should presume I will understand this. I dont claim to be an expert...


Edit:
You dont see my calling out the user for this thread
http://www.worldofwar.net/forums/showthread.php?t=412851
Asking something pretty basic. I understand something that may seem basic to you, is not so basic to others. You call someone out for being sarcastic in that thread, but try acting sarcastic in this one. Love the double standards.

[Herald of Doom]

It's HOW you ask it... go back and read your post and imagine you were on the receiving end. You may or may not have meant it, but your posts here reek of a 'you dumb noob...' attitude.

It was especially unwarranted after my post that mentioned I was seeing the same behavior, hence it's not something that just Pharoahe is seeing.

Herald - yes, I could attach a mouse. I don't WANT to...I sit on the sofa and not near/on a table. The ports on my Macbook are on the left and I'm righthanded.

And... PLEASE READ. Sorry for the caps, but when 2 people describe the same behavior and it's new to both of us in 2.4.... you might want to stop and think "hmm, I don't see this, but maybe they're onto something."

What exactly has given you the impression that anyone was saying that there isn't something going on? I don't think anyone would be replying with questions or tips like this thread if they thought "silly bugger you're making things up".

As I suspected I couldn't reproduce this issue on my pc, tried 6 characters. Is there anything on those characters experiencing this issue that you have/don't have on the ones without the problem? Is there a similarity between all characters that do experience it (like say, they are all dwarves or gnomes so using a smaller model)? Are those guildies also on a laptop without a mouse?

And not wanting the best and easiest solution is your personal choice, but it makes people helping go "why am i doing this, when they could do X and fix it". It reminds me of those moments at work where you know you can fix something with a reboot, and the user insists on fixing it manually because she doesnt feel "rebooting is a real solution". Ofcourse I love trying to pinpoint something like thisso you don't have to fear that I feel like that ;)

Have you ever tried a real and recent laptop mouse? When I first got one (way back when usb receivers where the size of a usb stick) I couldn't believe what a difference it made, and I never looked at touchpads again. It's a little different at first, but after a few days I was happily gaming away with my mouse in bed, on the train or anywhere I usually went with my laptop :)

[Pharoahe]

What exactly has given you the impression that anyone was saying that there isn't something going on? I don't think anyone would be replying with questions or tips like this thread if they thought "silly bugger you're making things up".

As I suspected I couldn't reproduce this issue on my pc, tried 6 characters. Is there anything on those characters experiencing this issue that you have/don't have on the ones without the problem? Is there a similarity between all characters that do experience it (like say, they are all dwarves or gnomes so using a smaller model)? Are those guildies also on a laptop without a mouse?

And not wanting the best and easiest solution is your personal choice, but it makes people helping go "why am i doing this, when they could do X and fix it". It reminds me of those moments at work where you know you can fix something with a reboot, and the user insists on fixing it manually because she doesnt feel "rebooting is a real solution". Ofcourse I love trying to pinpoint something like thisso you don't have to fear that I feel like that ;)

Have you ever tried a real and recent laptop mouse? When I first got one (way back when usb receivers where the size of a usb stick) I couldn't believe what a difference it made, and I never looked at touchpads again. It's a little different at first, but after a few days I was happily gaming away with my mouse in bed, on the train or anywhere I usually went with my laptop :)

I'm pretty sure both my guildies are *not* on Laptops. Although I will ask them.
Secondly my character is a Gnome. The other 2 both have a Nelf Druids (although one may have been on his human priest, I will confirm later). However my Nelf Druid does not have this problem (the alt I was talking about).

I appreciate your efforts.

My camera is usually maxed out as far back as you can get. I have tried all combinations of camera views on both my main and alt. The main still sinks and the alt is still swimming as usual.


Using a proper mouse is not a real solution to this. There is no requirement to play using a mouse. This is the reason why Blizz added the keyboard shortcuts.

[clevins]

Hm.... I see this on my gnome also. I'll try this on my human priest. It's entirely possible that some change was made and forget to allow for the, um, lack of height issue in gnomes.

Edit: Yep, it's a Gnome thing. My Gnome rogue was on the Isle of Quel'danas so I walked him to one of the ramps in the harbor and walked into the water (I'm talking about the angled ramps near the large docked ship). Just walking in he was underwater. Did the same thing on the human priest. She was above water as you'd expect.

Time to check the 2.4.2 notes...

Edit #2: Nothing in 2.4.2 noting this. Bug written:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=6136456734&postId=61356056180&sid=1#0

[Pharoahe]

Hm.... I see this on my gnome also. I'll try this on my human priest. It's entirely possible that some change was made and forget to allow for the, um, lack of height issue in gnomes.

Edit: Yep, it's a Gnome thing. My Gnome rogue was on the Isle of Quel'danas so I walked him to one of the ramps in the harbor and walked into the water (I'm talking about the angled ramps near the large docked ship). Just walking in he was underwater. Did the same thing on the human priest. She was above water as you'd expect.

Time to check the 2.4.2 notes...

Interesting.
Im going to check with toons my guildies were on, maybe they were refering to some alts.

I can confirm the same, only my *gnome* characters are having this problem. So it clearly is a bug. Thanks for the many presumptions and blame mongering :)
Pergolesi I really hope this thread shows you that there is always room for learning in this game. I've been playing the game for a year (nearly 100 days played) yet I still have no shame in posting in the newbie forum.
I also hope people will now begin to realise that playing without a mouse is a viable method of play that Blizz supports & using one is not considered a bug solution.
/bows out

[Valas Azuviir]

I really think you lot need to take a chill pill right about now, because the temperature in this thread is a wee bit too much on the hot side. And that's not something that we folks in green find pleasing.

:annoyed:

[MrBCorp]

I just thought I'd add that, while I know you don't think too crash hot of having a mouse for your laptop, my friend used to have a small mouse he carried around in his laptop bag (I assume you carry yours in one), maybe you could try the same. He didn't use it all the time, just when he needed it. It was small and unobtrusive.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

Xlorep,

right, it's NEW in 2.4. And it's annoying as hell. It would be one thing if I voluntarily submerged, but 2.4 does this to my toon (puts me underwater) when I perform actions that did NOT used to do that.

It is annoying, I am not disagreeing with you, but it is not a bug, from what I've seen. It is a change Blizzard made for whatever reason.

If you're on a desktop with a mouse tilting up and swimming to the surface fixes it easily but

1) i play on a laptop (for the 3rd time... come on people, read before typing, OK?)

I know you play on a laptop. You've said you play on a laptop, ad nausium. That doesn't change the fact that there is a simple solution to your problem that you refuse to accept.

2) it's much easier to hit spacebar and have that pop you to the surface (like it has until now) and

But that is jumping, not swimming up. You aren't swimming up to the surface, you are literally jumping up in the water, and then out of the water & back in the water. What happens whenever anyone (or anything) jumps up in water? They sink. While not perfect, Blizzard is now somewhat handling that... albeit not in what I'd personally say is the best solution.

3)you didn't used to need to mess around with this - it's new and IMO broken in 2.4. I can't see any good reason for this change.

It is new, it is different, and it may force you to change how you play the game, unfortunately. Your opinions aside, if Blizzard doesn't have anyone come out and say it is a bug, then it most likely isn't a bug and is working as intended.

Here's a thought, bind the look up/look down actions to keys, and then use that to help you.

Interesting.
Im going to check with toons my guildies were on, maybe they were refering to some alts.

I can confirm the same, only my *gnome* characters are having this problem. So it clearly is a bug. Thanks for the many presumptions and blame mongering :)
Pergolesi I really hope this thread shows you that there is always room for learning in this game. I've been playing the game for a year (nearly 100 days played) yet I still have no shame in posting in the newbie forum.
I also hope people will now begin to realise that playing without a mouse is a viable method of play that Blizz supports & using one is not considered a bug solution.
/bows out

It happens for my Gnome, Dwarf, Orc, and Tauren characters, which are my 4 70's that I've been playing a bit now. So I'm wondering if it really is a racial limitation...

[pergolesi]

I'm glad the discussion has calmed down and I apologize for any comments I may have made that caused offense. I have to report my latest findings and hope they shed light, not heat on the issue:

I played 3 characters in order to observe their swimming behavior, a nelf, a dwarf and a gnome. I had them jump into moderately deep water. In each case I was able to sink the toons using the x key and bring them up with the spacebar, however they came up in discrete jumps, not smoothly as in the case of a flying mount. When they jumped above the surface (using spacebar) they all, including the gnome, landed with their heads above water. In this position I moved them forward and they continued to swim forward, head above water, and not sink with forward movement. They never needed air once on the surface. The horizon was even about 15 degrees above the center of the screen in some cases. I did this with all three, and several times.

Because I have got totally different results than those reported by others in this thread I would like to know why that could be. That's why some precision in observation and reporting is important. The only thing I can think of is that someone may have tilted his character point of view (R Mouse for those with mice) downward so that forward motion causes the character to dive. But that's just a guess. More experimentation is required.

For those using laptops, I have to point out that we mousers have 2 options: 1. Left mouse button + mouse movement changes the view angle of the character but not character's orientation, and

2. Right mouse button + mouse movement changes character's orientation and direction of travel. How the 2 are defined for a laptop without mouse I don't know but there must be way.

[clevins]

Xlorep,

I repeated that I play on a laptop because it's NOT easy to use a mouse. Sure, I can sit at a desk and use one.... but I don't see why I should need to. Why should laptop users suddenly have to move to an external mouse to do a basic function of the game?

And, sorry, but when any toon walks into water and is immediately submerged that's a bug. There's no good functional reason for it. Calling it a change is semantics. Don't try the "it's not a bug, it's a feature" line on me... I've been in software way too long to fall for that. Blizzard may or may not fix it, but the fact that they don't doe not make it not a bug.

And yes, I know hitting spacebar is jumping, thanks. It also used to land me in the water on the surface if I was slightly under water. It doesn't now. I can actually see that change as logical. It wouldn't bother me *if i wasn't immediately placed underwater for no good reason*.

Pergolesi...

Thanks for the update. Are any of your toons gnomes? Did you try simply walking into water vs jumping in?

[Herald of Doom]

Tried it with gnome, dwarf and human. Walking in, jumping in, even running in on my horse (someone walked past me when I was doing and asked what was going on so I roleplayed being an obsessed scientist who wanted to find the perfect way to enter water :p ). I ran in a pool with a shallow shore and one with quite a steep shore, nothing at all. The only time I did go underwater immediately is when I dropped from a certain height, and to be honest I can't remember if it always did that but it does make sense. Could you perhaps fraps a small clip?

[Pharoahe]

ive tried to take a video yesterday, but mac seems to be messing it up, will try again.

I agree, how can it NOT be a bug. Simply WALKING into water causes me to go under

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

ive tried to take a video yesterday, but mac seems to be messing it up, will try again.

I agree, how can it NOT be a bug. Simply WALKING into water causes me to go under

If it is, then it is. And, I'm sure that there will be a fix for it. If it isn't, then Blizzard isn't necessarily going to come out and say it isn't a bug. That kind of was my point.

[clevins]

Blizzard won't necessarily come out and say it IS a bug either. Let's not pretend that only things they explicitly claim as bugs are bugs and that if they don't own up to it it's somehow NOT a bug but an intended change. Please...

Anyway, I filed a report in the Bugs forum - I don't expect to see anything today since it's the weekend... we'll see if there's anything next week.

[pergolesi]

I tried walking into the water and tho I sank a bit below the surface there was no problem getting instantly back to the surface either by mouse or by spacebar. Having quite quickly got to the surface I automatically stayed on the surface, no problem with breathing. Yes, I am using 2.4. I cannot believe this is bug. In real life if you walk into the water you would sort of sink and you have to make some effort, once your feet aren't touching the bottom, to get your head above water. Perhaps the Bliz people modeled this.

I don't think the kind of computer you have would make a difference. You haven't addressed the question I've been continually asking about the vertical direction/orientation of your character, how you see it when in the water or how you control it without a mouse. I mean, you can turn your character with a and d keys but how do you orient him up and down? I think in this case the best solution is to provide a video and and I bet there's people on this forum who can help tell you how to do it.

Meanwhile, a question that might be asked is this: when you enter the water what is the camera angle? Are your viewing your character from above or at or below head level? To put it differently where is the (supposed) horizon line in relation to your screen when you're in the water?

[Pharoahe]

I tried walking into the water and tho I sank a bit below the surface there was no problem getting instantly back to the surface either by mouse or by spacebar. Having quite quickly got to the surface I automatically stayed on the surface, no problem with breathing. Yes, I am using 2.4. I cannot believe this is bug. In real life if you walk into the water you would sort of sink and you have to make some effort, once your feet aren't touching the bottom, to get your head above water. Perhaps the Bliz people modeled this.

I don't think the kind of computer you have would make a difference. You haven't addressed the question I've been continually asking about the vertical direction/orientation of your character, how you see it when in the water or how you control it without a mouse. I mean, you can turn your character with a and d keys but how do you orient him up and down? I think in this case the best solution is to provide a video and and I bet there's people on this forum who can help tell you how to do it.

Meanwhile, a question that might be asked is this: when you enter the water what is the camera angle? Are your viewing your character from above or at or below head level? To put it differently where is the (supposed) horizon line in relation to your screen when you're in the water?

Dude your acting like you know this game. A few weeks back you didnt know what Motes were or what a BoP item was. So please dont act like your an authority on this. Have you even played the game before 2.4 to comment on this problem?
If you knew the game that well, you'd also know that both of us can make videos easily as we are on Macs.

if you actually BOTHERED TO READ my posts i have stated multiple times that i have tried to change the camera angles and tried it at ALL the angles. The problem persists.

And to say Blizz have done this on purpose as some sort of simulation is simply ridiculous. This is not a simulation game. If that were the case why is it only happening on a few characters.

For the record i have used a,d and w keys to swim. I use the space bar and X button to swim up and down, as I have *always* done in the past. I await a comment with you saying thats not how its meant to be done even though blizz specifically added the X to swim button in a patch.

[Stowned]

Blizzard put it into recent patch notes that when entering water you will now sink below the surface, so what's the problem?

Edit: Pharoahe: Theres no need to flame somebody when they are trying to give you answers to questions that you asked. Grow up. You are probably experiencing lag *gasp* and so you are still seeing the breathe bar when on the surface. If it's eating you up this bad, stop going into water.

You say WoW isn't a simulation game, well, tomato toma'to. I'd say playing the role of a character is somewhat the same as simulating being that character. If you want to be nit-picky, I haven't encountered any swim problems on any of my chars ever in this game, so you must be doing something wrong.

Note: The only weird thing I have ever seen with swimming is the fact that ghosts walk on all water, but still swim in the green ooze in the UC.

[pergolesi]

Dude your acting like you know this game. A few weeks back you didnt know what Motes were or what a BoP item was.

Can't you have a conversation without including insults? And you obviously don't know the difference between "your" and "you're;" after all it is your language. I didn't claim to know everything about the game and I don't mind asking for help with things I don't know. I don't go to the trouble of insulting people who are asking me reasonable questions while trying to get at the problem. Yes, I played for some time before 2.4 (I have a lvl 70) and didn't notice any difference in swimming after the last update. Because I have an interest in this problem I was merely trying to find out what you might be doing to create this effect. I have no problem at all with swimming and because of that I'm convinced it isn't a bug, but you go ahead and report it as such if you want to.

if you actually BOTHERED TO READ my posts i have stated multiple times that i have tried to change the camera angles and tried it at ALL the angles. The problem persists.

If you weren't so irritable people might be more inclined to help you. I admit I did miss that sentence. That suggests that without a mouse you have no control of your character's vertical direction--that is, you can change the view, but not his direction of motion in the vertical. That's what I thought. But the vertical direction of motion has to be set somewhere. Wonder where and how? And if you can make a video, why don't you? Well, your abrasive attitude has finally convinced me to not waste another brain cell on your trivial problem. Sorry for trying.

[Kalos]

I believe it is time for this situation to cool down. Please do not continue this aggression further, it is most undesirable as are the consiquences. If you cannot moderate your temperament after this point, then I will be forced to lock this thread, and possibly other actions. The ball is in your court. :annoyed:

[Pharoahe]

It gets annoying when I am told again and again

1) Its my fault and I'm a nab
2) Have to repeat the same descriptions again and again

stowned could you please link me to these patch notes, atleast that way I know that its intended and i can get over it.

edit: saw the above post after posting.

[Stowned]

It gets annoying when I am told again and again

1) Its my fault and I'm a nab
2) Have to repeat the same descriptions again and again

stowned could you please link me to these patch notes, atleast that way I know that its intended and i can get over it.

edit: saw the above post after posting.

Refer to this post regarding the undocumetned 2.4 patch notes. http://www.worldofwar.net/forums/showthread.php?t=411936 (http://www.worldofwar.net/forums/showthread.php?t=411936)

[Pharoahe]

thanks.......

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

Blizzard won't necessarily come out and say it IS a bug either. Let's not pretend that only things they explicitly claim as bugs are bugs and that if they don't own up to it it's somehow NOT a bug but an intended change. Please...

Never said that. I only said that if it isn't a bug, Blizzard won't necessarily come out and say it isn't. I never said that if it is a bug, they defintiely will come out and say it. Don't put words in my mouth. What I did say was that if it is a bug, it'll get fixed. What I probably should qualify with that is the word "eventually", because it will be given a priority relevant to the importance that fixing the bug is/how big of a problem it is.

[surodat]

Most people do not have one button trackpads. Right clicking and moving the trackpad will allow you to move up and down. You don't *need* an external mouse, it just makes it easier.
Please see: http://theappleblog.com/2006/05/18/right-click/
for alternatives, and instructions how to right click.

Apple continues to be (one of?) the only laptop producer without a physical right click button. Love em, but, you know, it's annoying.

Thanks for the entertaining read, though my suggestion would be, if you would like people to help you, engage in humility to the point of suffering just to keep the peace. Because when someone who might have the answer comes along, they might not want to jump in on a borderline flame war.

[clevins]

Never said that. I only said that if it isn't a bug, Blizzard won't necessarily come out and say it isn't. I never said that if it is a bug, they defintiely will come out and say it. Don't put words in my mouth. What I did say was that if it is a bug, it'll get fixed. What I probably should qualify with that is the word "eventually", because it will be given a priority relevant to the importance that fixing the bug is/how big of a problem it is.



wasn't putting words in your mouth, but I certainly got the feel from your posts that you felt this was a change made for a reason and I simply disagree - there's no logical reason for this behavior, I'm betting it's a sideeffect of something. And I just wanted to point out that not all bugs are publicly acknowledged and, in fact, not all bugs are eventually fixed. Witness that there is no way to descend beneath water as a ghost on a laptop without a mouse. The X key does not work if you're in spirit form to submerge you. Of course it works fine in non-spirit form.

surodat - I can live with this bug... in some ways that's not the point. It's that this is new in 2.4, that it's annoying and the thread started off with people telling us very basic mechanics on how to move (which ignores the issue) and then telling me of various ways I can live with it. I appreciate that, but all I wanted to confirm was that it was something others saw and perhaps refine the conditions under which they saw it.

[Katrala]

The whole swimming thing has been annoying me like crazy since 2.4. Two of my three toons are gnomes and I avoid water at all costs now.

If you jump at all while in the water, you go right back under and have to very carefully get just the right clicking position to stay above water. It sucks.

Whatever the issue is, whether it's a bug or intentional, I really hope they change it soon. I died on my gnome rogue (alt) last night in Redridge because I was already near empty on breath and just jumping didn't reset the breathe bar enough. :(

Can't you have a conversation without including insults? And you obviously don't know the difference between "your" and "you're;" after all it is your language.
If you're going to call someone out for being insulting in conversation, it's not usually good to insult them in your next sentence. :)

[Pharoahe]

The whole swimming thing has been annoying me like crazy since 2.4. Two of my three toons are gnomes and I avoid water at all costs now.

If you jump at all while in the water, you go right back under and have to very carefully get just the right clicking position to stay above water. It sucks.

Whatever the issue is, whether it's a bug or intentional, I really hope they change it soon. I died on my gnome rogue (alt) last night in Redridge because I was already near empty on breath and just jumping didn't reset the breathe bar enough. :(


If you're going to call someone out for being insulting in conversation, it's not usually good to insult them in your next sentence. :)

Yeah ive almost drowned on a few occasions luckily I have my Nagrand cherrys on me.
Glad to have some more confirmation that i dont need to l2p

lol as for the your/youre thing. Its a simple typo but some people cant help going there :grin:

[pergolesi]

Whatever the issue is, whether it's a bug or intentional, I really hope they change it soon. I died on my gnome rogue (alt) last night in Redridge because I was already near empty on breath and just jumping didn't reset the breathe bar enough. :(

Are you another of those people who refuses to use a mouse? If not why are you jumping to get above the water? I would think jumping is likely to just get you back under.

[Pharoahe]

Except it doesnt get you back under with most races.

[pergolesi]

Except it doesnt get you back under with most races.

It doesn't for me, but I'd still like an answer to the question, why is he jumping to get his head above water? I it because he can't control his direction of movement in the vertical?

[clevins]

pergo... I jump to get to the surface because it's worked up to 2.4 and it's dead easy. if I'm a bit underwater, hit spacebar, jump, fall back into water with head on/above surface. When I'm swimming up, it's the easiest thing to - hit spacebar a few times and I'm up.

As for 'refusing to use a mouse' why should I HAVE to use a mouse? I haven't until now and yes I refuse to now. I play for relaxation... i'm kicking back on my sofa. I don't want to have to go sit at the desk just to do something that i used to be able to do in all other previous patches.

[Pharoahe]

It doesn't for me, but I'd still like an answer to the question, why is he jumping to get his head above water? I it because he can't control his direction of movement in the vertical?

Why cant he jump? I know no other way to get above water without a mouse. Its always been the way to do it for Mac users. You dont have a mac...

[pergolesi]

Sorry to pick on your typo--that was unfair of me.

Why cant he jump? I know no other way to get above water without a mouse. Its always been the way to do it for Mac users. You dont have a mac...

Lol. Well that's my point. You and he seem know no other way to get above water without a mouse. What I'm suggesting is that maybe you're missing the ability to control your direction of movement in the vertical, that is, to swim (or fly if you have a flying mount) in a slanting direction up or down, at any angle, steep or shallow. Of course you don't need or have that when you're going across land. View angle and angle of travel appear the same on the screen, but the behavior of the character is different in each case.

Now I am a Mac user, but I never played WoW on a laptop. Because, as others have pointed out, Mac laptops have only one trackpad button you can only change your view angle, not your angle of travel. Macs have traditionally used one button mice and had ctl+mouseclick to imitate the other mouse button. I would think that to use that with WoW on a laptop you'd have to hold down the ctl key and the trackpad button at the same time you're tracking on the pad. That might be awkward because then you'd have trouble holding position on the w and s keys for forward or back movement. Or maybe you can map keys creatively in such a way as to make up for that.

Now it may be that Blizzard should create a system of direction of movement in the vertical plane that will work with Mac laptops without a mouse, but AFIK they haven't. So if you're determined to make do without a mouse you have to deal with the limitations. :wink:

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

Why cant he jump? I know no other way to get above water without a mouse. Its always been the way to do it for Mac users. You dont have a mac...

bind keys to "look up" and "look down" then. I'm not going to argue that it is optimal (using a mouse really is), but if you lack a mouse, keybindings work.

[elsegundo]

i POV upwards, then swim upwards, then (due to boredom or whatevers) i press jump. it seems that jump might make things quicker. i dont know, i dont care if its true or not. i just did it in the past and will continue to do it. i did have some issues with swimming but with a little adjusting i was able to breathe again. no biggie but it is a little different.

to those who do not use mouse, what about getting a small one? those work just as well as the big ones. some even have retractable cables. and some are wireless. takes up little space (less than the power adapter for sure), so why not?

[clevins]

Now it may be that Blizzard should create a system of direction of movement in the vertical plane that will work with Mac laptops without a mouse, but AFIK they haven't. So if you're determined to make do without a mouse you have to deal with the limitations. :wink:

But... and this is the key for me... this is a NEW limitation and, given its race specificity, v likely a bug. I actually don't mind the other limits of playing on my laptop... but coming close to dying because the patch broke something is... um... annoying. It's the implication that this is the way it should be that I object to - it's almost certainly a bug.

Xlorep... I'll try that - if I can find a spare key to bind...

[Pharoahe]

bind keys to "look up" and "look down" then. I'm not going to argue that it is optimal (using a mouse really is), but if you lack a mouse, keybindings work.

Hi mate, i tried this when it was suggested earlier. But I dont get how exactly to use this method. COuld you walk me through it please. Like say I'm under water, with this method, what shall I use to swim up?

Also anyone know a list of free keys on WoW? I want to add Look up and Down near each other but most keys near each other seem to be for other functions already...

[clevins]

You don't need to use a free key if you bind a key that's used already it just remaps the key to whatever you assigned it to.

Look up would orient the toon up a bit... and then if you move you should swim up.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

Hi mate, i tried this when it was suggested earlier. But I dont get how exactly to use this method. COuld you walk me through it please. Like say I'm under water, with this method, what shall I use to swim up?

Also anyone know a list of free keys on WoW? I want to add Look up and Down near each other but most keys near each other seem to be for other functions already...

Basically, you would make a key be set so when you pressed it, you look up, or if you press another one, you look down. It would work basically just like turning left or right. So, to swim up, you'd press a key to look up, and then you could just swim forward, and you'd swim up to the surface. I think there's also a key for resetting yourself to have looking "centered", or it might automatically adjust to do that when you have certain other options set for controlling the camera.

Me, when I am using a keyboard to look up and down, I try to make those be something sort of near the rest of the keys I use for movement. If you are using a laptop, you can use the numlock key to activate the little faux number pad (7 -> 9, U -> O, and J -> L) on the American/English keyboard layout). You then can set your movement keys to be something reminiscent of the arrow keys on a number pad on a desktop keyboard. So, it would mean something like:

7 (7) | 8 (8) | 9 (9)

U (4) | I (5) | O (6)

J (1) | K (2) | L (3)



You could make it be:


Slide Left | Forward | Slide Right

Turn Left | Backward | Turn Right

Look Up | Center View | Look Down



Mind you, this might not work for you, but you can set up your keys however you want. Just be prepared you might need to move some other key bindings around to make it all work.

[pergolesi]

I think what you want to map is "pitch up" and "pitch down"--I mapped them to keys and it worked okay, except for one thing: On the surface of the water I couldn't dive my character with "pitch down" it was only after I got him submerged by the x key that I could move up and down with the "pitch up" and "pitch down" keys. Hmm.

[clevins]

Ok, I bound Pitch Up to Shift+A and it does, in fact, work fine to angle me to the surface. Since I use the arrows on my right hand to move this works well. Thanks for the suggestion!

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

Glad I could help. If/when Blizzard addresses the issue, and makes a decision as to whether it is working as intended or not, and potentially makes a change to fix it, then it won't necessarily be needed. Until then, it is a good interim solution, one I used before when I was playing on a laptop myself, way back when (in the Beta).

[surodat]

Wait. This is killing me now. If you can't pitch up to get up to the surface, this means that you can't pitch down, or really swim. Or for that matter, fly. The OP mentioned a flying mount. How do you land?

[Pharoahe]

^^ hey thanks, I will be trying these suggestions out today or so

Wait. This is killing me now. If you can't pitch up to get up to the surface, this means that you can't pitch down, or really swim. Or for that matter, fly. The OP mentioned a flying mount. How do you land?

X = down
Space bar = Up

works well.