Blizzard should....

[Telic]

How to make BG Honour awards completely fair to all within a team ?

How to stop HK farmers from spoiling BGs ?


Blizzard should stop awarding honour for kills in BGs.


Just wanna kill ?
Then have a new BG where the objective is to reach a number of kills limit... no one could complain of hk farming in this instance, as they'd be directly contributing to the objective.


But where objectives are "strategic", as they are in current BGs, then you'd no longer be penalised for guarding an objective, or being the fc (and waiting for farmers to get round to returning)

[surodat]

I don't know... I don't really notice people running off to try to "farm HKs" rather than winning the BG. I mean, you get more honour for winning, right? So you're farming honour too by trying to win the objective?

I don't know if you can equate the dumb people running around just killing things to HK farmers, as a good farmer would know that more honour comes from winning, or letting the other team win quickly, than killing as many people as possible.

[Richakin]

surodat lives in the clouds.

i can't tell you how many times i've seen 3-5 people leave a node to chase a druid half way across the map while the base they WERE defending gets capped...

[Wintrow]

In AV, killing the opposite side helps towards the goal. Each kill brings down their reinforcement-count which helps end the game sooner. Off course, a reinforcement-won AV is not the quickest to do it :tongue:. More of a desperate "kill em all while we defend the general" last stand sort of thing.

About that "chasing the druid"-thing. That's just pride. At that moment they're not thinking about the honor that druid is gonna net. It's seething rage to "show that druid that he's not to mess w us". The fact that for that druid is, even though he died, he won the game and won overall due to clever tactics.

Same thing with melee persistently trying to beat down a tank that has a healer (or two) behind him or a resto shammy wasting minutes of the other side's time by staying alive w Lesser Haling Wave.

[Telic]

@surodat

You haven't noticed?
I can't believe its just a problem on the Dragonblight battlegroup...

People mindlessly zerging AB and EoTs and no one willing to stay and defend...
People in Wsg who just join whatever fight they see first in mid, rather than defending their fc, or going for the efc...


In AV, I'd say the argument for hk farming is still weak - I find the Reinforcements figure a much stronger argument in Favour of Healers actually healing and keeping comrades alive - but that's a different argument ;)
There is even an argument that hk honour in AV is an extra incentive toward defence your own sides Towers and Bunkers, as you know the other side is going to come to you in large numbers - but you still see people capping towers and then rushing off, which pisses me off when ever I see it.

It seems like 80% of the time, I'm the only one willing to defend a base, while everyone rushes off - which tempts me to rush off too and say "sod it"... After which someone will complain about no defence.
Perhaps zergers don't notice that they are always the ones zerging, while its always the same people who end up having to defend... Reminds me of kids that don't realise that their Mother is constantly tidying up after them.

Its imba that they get rewarded with hk honour for mindless behaviour and always expecting others to defend(or attack the efc), while 'strategic' players get penalised.



I'd suggest that whoever caps a tower MUST stay within range of the tower in order for it to be destroyed/change hands... But then lots of people would never bother capping in the first place...


OR how about, no matter what range you are from combat in a BG, EVERYONE gets honour for every hk.

[irogue]

@surodat

You haven't noticed?
I can't believe its just a problem on the Dragonblight battlegroup...

People mindlessly zerging AB and EoTs and no one willing to stay and defend...
People in Wsg who just join whatever fight they see first in mid, rather than defending their fc, or going for the efc...


In AV, I'd say the argument for hk farming is still weak - I find the Reinforcements figure a much stronger argument in Favour of Healers actually healing and keeping comrades alive - but that's a different argument ;)
There is even an argument that hk honour in AV is an extra incentive toward defence your own sides Towers and Bunkers, as you know the other side is going to come to you in large numbers - but you still see people capping towers and then rushing off, which pisses me off when ever I see it.

It seems like 80% of the time, I'm the only one willing to defend a base, while everyone rushes off - which tempts me to rush off too and say "sod it"... After which someone will complain about no defence.
Perhaps zergers don't notice that they are always the ones zerging, while its always the same people who end up having to defend... Reminds me of kids that don't realise that their Mother is constantly tidying up after them.

Its imba that they get rewarded with hk honour for mindless behaviour and always expecting others to defend(or attack the efc), while 'strategic' players get penalised.



I'd suggest that whoever caps a tower MUST stay within range of the tower in order for it to be destroyed/change hands... But then lots of people would never bother capping in the first place...


OR how about, no matter what range you are from combat in a BG, EVERYONE gets honour for every hk.

Yes, you don't get much HKs if you guard a flag/node/tower/bunker and that is the most obvious reason ppl moving around to kill.

No, if everyone gets HKs no matter what the range is, you will see more AFKers, bots or honor leech in BGs.

If I see my team does not play well, (ppl don't listen, ppl don't guard, ppl fighting in the middle of nowhere, ppl try to solo 3 to 5 enemies...) I would join the HK force and enjoy the killing.

[jschild]

More I think is people get bored just standing guarding at a base or flag. Which is why I do it, let someone else kill, as long as they come running when i call for help.

[elsegundo]

i would like a BG where first team to 50 or 100 kills win the bg. thats it. 50 kills.

[irogue]

i would like a BG where first team to 50 or 100 kills win the bg. thats it. 50 kills.

Druids and rogues will like your 1st-50-kill BG. We hide and we win. hehe.

[elsegundo]

Druids and rogues will like your 1st-50-kill BG. We hide and we win. hehe.

how about this.

no stealth, everyone gets a gun or bow, 1 hit =1 kill. i suggested this somewhere before. its basically a fps setup.

[surodat]

I actually don't notice this. Maybe it's my battlegroup, maybe it's the horde? I don't think so though.

I do however notice there are idiots that just run around with itchy trigger fingers, but I don't think it has to do with farming HKs. I think it has to do with not thinking about the consequences of their actions, not understanding the game, or not really caring about the group.

That's the behaviour you seem to describe: "OOOOooo! An enemy! Kill the enemy!"
Not: "I'll do so much better attacking everyone than trying to win."

That behavior could hardly be called farming.

[Telic]

Yes, you don't get much HKs if you guard a flag/node/tower/bunker and that is the most obvious reason ppl moving around to kill.

No, if everyone gets HKs no matter what the range is, you will see more AFKers, bots or honor leech in BGs.

If I see my team does not play well, (ppl don't listen, ppl don't guard, ppl fighting in the middle of nowhere, ppl try to solo 3 to 5 enemies...) I would join the HK force and enjoy the killing.

Yup, I go back to my original suggestion. Not only would global hks encourage robots, but it would still be too much encouragement to farmers when they equal or outnumber the players who want to win.


No honour for BG honour kills is the only way.

After all, people keep complaining that BG's take too long - the best way to speed them up is to make sure everyone is actually playing solely for objectives.

[PlayThemAll]

how about this.

no stealth, everyone gets a gun or bow, 1 hit =1 kill. i suggested this somewhere before. its basically a fps setup.

OK, but no auto targeting/aiming, you have to aim your shots just like in a FPS. :grin:

[elsegundo]

OK, but no auto targeting/aiming, you have to aim your shots just like in a FPS. :grin:

damn. i figured people would miss that! lol

[Wintrow]

That's the behaviour you seem to describe: "OOOOooo! An enemy! Kill the enemy!"
Not: "I'll do so much better attacking everyone than trying to win."

That behavior could hardly be called farming.

The behavior I accredit to my fellow BG-players is more like:
JohnD: "ok, lets all run towards the other factions base and help out, that guy in /bg seems to know what to do"
(* opposite faction's offense knocks another player JohnQ off mount *)
JohnD: "I'd better help him !"
(* JohnD unmounts and joins the fray *)
opposite players join in
other players join in

In the end everyone is helping their bg-mates win the fight so that they can just get past and carry on with whatever that guy in /bg said.

In the meantime nobody gets past the huge battle because they all get slowed, stunned and generally killed while the guy in /bg is screaming "Just rides past them FFS!!!".

Sure, a few make it past the pile of bodies either by sheer luck, cunning or stealth. They don't have the power to take on Galv/Belinda so they try to solo-cap the towers.

Off course, the opposite side is constantly rezzing near the battle and whenever they see "The xxxx tower is assaulted. Unless prevented the yyyy will destroy it" they make a stop by the tower. The offensive group can hold them off for a bit, but eventually they all die one by one. Guess where they rez? Back on the wrong side of that battle again !

So in this mindset nobody gives a hoot about HK's, but that's what the guy in /bg is thinking. Eventually he waits out till the reinforcement-battle is over or both factions give up and suddenly come to their senses and ignore "passer-by's". Or he says "/bg you all suck !" and quits the BG :tongue:.

I've seen all three happen...

It's worse in the L51-60 band where this scenario occurs 90% of the time while the kiddies are still ingame. As it gets later the pro's are left and they play a proper "race for the general".

L61-70 has a far lower "crappy game" ratio, somewhere around 10%. That doesn't mean we always win, just that, if we lose it's because of they having a good defense team vs us a lesser offense team or they having a better offense team vs us a lesser defense team.

I've never consciously capped a tower in 51-60, too much of a disorganized mess, I've done it dozens of times in 61-70 despite having played a lot less games as a 70.