LFM for Kara...must be epic geared.

[rubberdubbie]

I keep seeing this a lot on my server. Someone looking for ppl who are in epics only and experienced. He asks for my defense/armor/HP stats....etc. So I join on my alt (who is a prot warrior and is all epic geared T4/T5) for a badge run. When I get there, I inspect the RL who's been spamming for epic geared ppl and he's in mostly blues and some greens. Seems a bit underhanded and lazy to me. I worked like hell running instances and heroics over and over to get rep so I could be in at least all blues with a few epics before I even considered Karazhan. I also see very poorly geared ppl recruits in our guild who expect to be included in our regular raids for SSC/TK. Many of these recruits /gquit a day or two later when they're told to get their gear up before they'll be able to run SSC/TK. What's with these lazy people?

[Shellar]

"LFM to MgT normal, T6+ geared ppl only". - 2.4 PTR General chat.

On a more serious note, I see it as a role/class issue. The survivability of the raid as a whole is directly proportionate to the quality of tank's gear, so the requirements for the said gear are more strict (particularily since there are very few real enrage timers/DPS checks in Kara). A hunter who is low on AP and below the hit cap can still contribute some damage and is thus an asset. A prot warrior with 10K hp and 400 defense is a liability.

[dagee]

I keep seeing this a lot on my server. Someone looking for ppl who are in epics only and experienced. He asks for my defense/armor/HP stats....etc. So I join on my alt (who is a prot warrior and is all epic geared T4/T5) for a badge run. When I get there, I inspect the RL who's been spamming for epic geared ppl and he's in mostly blues and some greens. Seems a bit underhanded and lazy to me.

It is underhanded. While I do agree the better geared your tank is the smoother your raid goes but he was not simply asking for a well geared tank but a well geared group. Essentially he was looking for a free run. By insuring that people are well geared not only is the instance completed quickly but he does not have to worry about people rolling against him.

[mesonm]

What's with these lazy people?


Did you leave the group before the run?

Or did you help make his game a success? If the latter, you contributed to the problem.

:grin:

[Wintrow]

How would a tank with 12.9k hp, 406 def, 78 resilience (i'm uncrittable), 30% dodge do in Kara? These are my unbuffed druid stats...

Maintank capable or hardly an offtank?

If they are considered good: they are a carefully planned selection of quest greens and blues with 2 S1 epic pieces nearly all enchanted/armor kitted with the best or second best enchants. See my thread in the druid forums for more info :smiley:.

[rubberdubbie]

It is underhanded. While I do agree the better geared your tank is the smoother your raid goes but he was not simply asking for a well geared tank but a well geared group. Essentially he was looking for a free run. By insuring that people are well geared not only is the instance completed quickly but he does not have to worry about people rolling against him.

That's what I mean...people looking for a free run.

[rubberdubbie]

Did you leave the group before the run?

Or did you help make his game a success? If the latter, you contributed to the problem.

:grin:

Depends on the rest of the group. But I usually end up MT'ing the whole thing. It's just that the person asking for all epic'd out people doesn't reveal that he himself has crap for gear that irks me.

[mesonm]

Depends on the rest of the group. But I usually end up MT'ing the whole thing. It's just that the person asking for all epic'd out people doesn't reveal that he himself has crap for gear that irks me.

But, you satisfied his objectives, making him confident that the technique works, and that he should do it again.

It may irk you, but you helped move it forward. :grin:

[elsegundo]

Depends on the rest of the group. But I usually end up MT'ing the whole thing. It's just that the person asking for all epic'd out people doesn't reveal that he himself has crap for gear that irks me.

i would have left.

people are so used to 70's running them through VC, WC, RFK, SM, etc... that they end up taking this mentality with them. i also see some sense in this though. i mean if the entire group is in blues, then one person in epics would really help. he could have been a bit more honest and said LFM for Kara.. need epic geared tank. makes it sound like they themselves arent epic'd out.

i've had this happen to me once, for ZF. haha. one of the party members checked out our gear, stats, and level... and decided that the main tank was too low level and left. we cleared the place without any wipes.

[rgirty]

Mostly blues and some greens is fairly normal for kara now, it has been nerfed quite a lot and since the attunement has been removed a couple of good healers or an overgeared tank can ensure a full clear.

THe way the guy advertised it wasn't the best but he knew what he needed to clear the place.

I don't htink there is much wrong with that, it wasn' tlike he was saying "LF1M kara- badge run" that would have been a total fraud.

However it sounded like he knew what the group needed to make it work so that was what he was asking for.

We run a group with multiple people in blues/greens each week and don't have any issue. Of course they are alts.

[rubberdubbie]

Mostly blues and some greens is fairly normal for kara now, it has been nerfed quite a lot and since the attunement has been removed a couple of good healers or an overgeared tank can ensure a full clear.

THe way the guy advertised it wasn't the best but he knew what he needed to clear the place.

I don't htink there is much wrong with that, it wasn' tlike he was saying "LF1M kara- badge run" that would have been a total fraud.

However it sounded like he knew what the group needed to make it work so that was what he was asking for.

We run a group with multiple people in blues/greens each week and don't have any issue. Of course they are alts.

Have there been many changes to Kara since it was introduced? I been running it from day one as a healer and I don't really recall many changes. The only one I noticed (not sure if was changed from before or not) was that garrote disappears after Morose dies. If I recall correctly, garrote used to continue even after he died. Prince is just as stupidly random as before.

[Justinledwards]

Flip it around. If he didn't set a standard, he'd get what I got when I opened recruitment right up in early days of my guild - unfortunately people with no idea about DPS rotations, gemming, chanting or speccing, who expected to go to kara. One time, I had 3 hunters in the group and we couldnt get flares down on curator (I was one of them, I was drawing aggro on every single flare). It went like this:

- try 1 - flares doubling up
- try 2 - I watched what the hunters were doing. Then yelled a lot about auto-shot NOT BEING BURST DAMAGE and I expected an auto, arcane and multi on every single flare and AoV and pot-chugging. People were saying, we don't have the group for this - you are kidding me right
- try 3 - curator down second evoc.

See, I had a lot of patience back then - but to be honest 2 wipes on curator these days and i'd /hearth

I had a kara group recently where I had myself (hunter again) and a DPS warrior on flares and all other DPS on the curator. He went down seconds after the first evoc, with no flare-chaining at all.

[Ritsuko]

It may have just been his alt. In the Kara I run every week all my guildies come, and want all full T6 people for a 2 hour badge run, but I geared up my full green/blue lock in 2 weeks from running her with them. Maybe they just needed one more? If he's not an alt, as in has a really good guild tag, he's hurting himself anyway, since most people armory the rl to see how he is before they go. If he's obviously not an alt of a good guild, a lot of people wont waste their time.

There are lots of lazy people out there though. If they can pug a t5+ grp though with crap gear more power to them, they're making gearing up really easy on themsleves.

[feeddagoat]

Our guild has kara on "slow" farm now. We did get a clear with an undergeared prot warrior off-tanking (was only just uncrittable), a feral druid still with a few greens and a couple of alts characters who had only a few epics gear. Knowing what to do and having a few very well geared characters makes things possible. Tanks need to be at their best to main tank. Anything less and karas gonna be a wipfest. At least on healer need to be in full kara gear and the dps needs to collectively be fairly strong. As long as your dpsers are decent and the group knows what they are doing kara shouldnt be to bad for ppl in blues and some greens. It is possible to carry them through at least lower kara anyway. I at least made the effort to get full blues on my healer before starting and still needed a fully kara geared pala to carry me through most of it.

[Leviathonlx]

It is underhanded. While I do agree the better geared your tank is the smoother your raid goes but he was not simply asking for a well geared tank but a well geared group. Essentially he was looking for a free run. By insuring that people are well geared not only is the instance completed quickly but he does not have to worry about people rolling against him.

By that guy saying epicced people only he basically just was tying to prevent bad players from entering his run which I would assume was his alt that he was gearing and that he was doing it with quite a few guildies and wanted to fill the last few spots. Course I am not sure on that :p

He probably just wanted the instance to go by pretty quick and didn't want it to take longer because someone needed to be taught how to run the instance or didn't know what to do.

Requiring epics though these days doesn't mean much since it is pretty easy to get epicced out (depending on your class/spec).

[clevins]

He probably just wanted the instance to go by pretty quick and didn't want it to take longer because someone needed to be taught how to run the instance or didn't know what to do.


yes... but don't use stranger who HAVE done the work to gear up your lazy ass. It's one thing if it's guildies or friends who know the score. But if I take my epicced toon in there I'm doing it because I want fast badges, not to carry someone. And if it's a core group of people who are under geared vs one person you'll struggle some. For example I joined a rather undergeared group of friends with a top T5 geared tank... we wiped on Prince 3x, once due to a v unlucky infernal, but twice in phase 3 because we got overwhelmed with infernals. Why? Because 3 of the dps were in the 300ish range and we weren't moving Prince to zero fast enough.

OP: You enabled him. He'll do it again. Don't be annoyed AFTER you've helped him do what annoyed you.

How would a tank with 12.9k hp, 406 def, 78 resilience (i'm uncrittable), 30% dodge do in Kara? These are my unbuffed druid stats...

Maintank capable or hardly an offtank?

If they are considered good: they are a carefully planned selection of quest greens and blues with 2 S1 epic pieces nearly all enchanted/armor kitted with the best or second best enchants. See my thread in the druid forums for more info :smiley:.

I don't know a ton about drood tanking, but I believe you're after 415 def at a minimum. Resilience is not a big deal, and I'd want more hp on my drood tanks. Dump the greens unless they're really better than the blues you can get for that slot for ferals . Get blues or epics (depending on slot you might find some crafted stuff, i.e. the Heavy Clefthoof on the AH for cheap).

Alternatively, build a dps set and run Kara as kitty dps. let the group know that you're not comfortable with your tanking set yet but would like to roll on tanky gear. if rogue dps leather works for you there are four pieces you could use off the AH or a LW... Chestguard of the dark stalker and the 3 Fel Leather pieces (gloves, legs, boots). The only thing is don't roll on both dps and tank gear unless no one else wants them. Pick one as main spec and roll on the offspec stuff if no one needs/wants for their main spec.

[rgirty]

Have there been many changes to Kara since it was introduced? I been running it from day one as a healer and I don't really recall many changes. The only one I noticed (not sure if was changed from before or not) was that garrote disappears after Morose dies. If I recall correctly, garrote used to continue even after he died. Prince is just as stupidly random as before.

A lot of numerous changes have been made.

Less trash, reduced hp of mobs like elementals from aran.

Arcane bolts of aran doing much less damage.

I can't remember them all but there have been numerous changes.

I also heard an undocumented change was that the curator's flares have less hp but i'm not sure about that one.

[mesonm]

A lot of numerous changes have been made.


Just to poke fun...

"A lot of numerous"? Is that like...a zillion?

:grin:

[rgirty]

Just to poke fun...

"A lot of numerous"? Is that like...a zillion?

:grin:

or a billion trillion!

[Justinledwards]

Druids can make up the difference between for defence to uncrittable using resilience. so 406 + 70 odd resilience is more than fine for uncrittable. However defence is good, agility even better. That's my 2nd hand knowledge anyways

[Beruen]

True, a druid doesn't get nearly as much benefit from Defense as a Warrior or a Paladin does (bear tanks can't block or parry), so resilience looks a lot more appealing to them. And for the record, 406 Def and 70 Resil is going to be so far past uncrittable it'd be silly.

As to the original purpose of the thread, I'd say that how I'd feel would depend on things not stated. If the person is good at leading a raid, I'd be fine with him not holding himself to the same standard. If he's only average, though, then he's not bringing anything himself that others aren't bringing, and it becomes less fine.

[mesonm]

If he's only average, though, then he's not bringing anything himself that others aren't bringing, and it becomes less fine.

Sure he is...What you are talking about takes place AFTER the raid is formed, which is what his contribution is, to start with.

Regardless of his skill, he's taking the time and forming the raid, which is more than most people will do....