I'm angry...(auctionhouse rant)

[Queltin]

I know I'm a bit of n00b. But my JCing is going really well, together with mining I can usually make a healthy profit...

But recently I notice that prices are getting lower and lower; what would usually make me 2-3G now are lucky to get one. Someone was selling 5 [Bronze Bands of Force] for 50s!

Question being - Will this worrying trend continue, or does the market commonly go in to a slump like this?

[Eileithyia]

This dose happen from time to time, someone will put items in at a really low price (When there is no need to) and ruin the market value.

Primal Might on my realm normally sells for 160 – 170g. On Friday someone put 5 in for 100g when the next lowest price was 160g but that was his loss, I got all 5 and re-listed them all for 160g. I made 300g from him and kept the market at the usual price.

Best is to either wait a few days or if you can Buy out the low priced ones and relist them at a higher price.

[tralkar]

how did he lose? he sold his did'nt he? maybe hes a nice guy and trying to sell it cheap for other people..I hate when #$%^ people put crap up for 2000X times the amount of it..

[elsegundo]

he lost out of potentially making 300 more gold than he could have. putting it up for market price, like what Eileithyia did, is not putting it back up for 2000x the amount of it. and he didnt put it up for the higher end of the market price (170g), but the lower end at 160 gold.

people who sell too low messes up the market for those who worked at collecting these things.

[Eileithyia]

he lost out of potentially making 300 more gold than he could have. putting it up for market price, like what Eileithyia did, is not putting it back up for 2000x the amount of it. and he didnt put it up for the higher end of the market price (170g), but the lower end at 160 gold.

people who sell too low messes up the market for those who worked at collecting these things.
exactly, now if there were others in ah for around 110 - 115 yes there was a valid reason for putting them in at 100, but the lowest was 160g. What he should of done was put them in for around 155g and would of at least been 275g better off.

His loss my gain. :smiley:

[Vandir]

I bought four BoE blues that Auctioneer said was at 50% of the price. :grin:
That cost me only about 80g. Right now I'm selling each of the four for 35g each, and they're selling well. That's 175% profit!

If someone does the whole "Mwahaha I'm going to list at super-cheap prices" thing, just buy them out and relist the stuff for a higher price. If you don't, somebody else probably will.

[Renata]

Especially since undercutters usually last only a short time. They lose interest fast, or they got a short term windfall. A sudden and rapid downturn of a particular market is usually quite short term, particularly if that market has been relatively stable over time.

Stick 'em in the bank and wait until the weekend.

...Ren

[teacake]

I once bought 5 Primal Lifes for 6 gold but I imagine this must have been a mistake on the listers part.

But yeah, make undercutters your friend. I follow some markets closely and every 5-7 days they hit a silly low and I buy them out and wait for them to hit their scarcity peak.

[Ritsuko]

If your selling JC things you make to lvl it will constantly go up and down. When I was lvling it I would make 15 of one thing and just put them up for cheaper then normal. Since not everyone is a JC, and only lvling JCers make begnning stuff, most of the things up are ripping people off. When others start lvling it, it prices will go down a lot since they'll be trying to get rid of it all.

[mesonm]

people who sell too low messes up the market for those who worked at collecting these things.

Too low? Define "too low"? Do we ask for opinions on price before posting in AH?

Can't I sell for whatever I want to sell for? Who says I didn't do the work colleting mine, and I just don't want to wait to get top dollar (er...gold)?

If you think it is too low, please feel free to make money off of me. I'm pleased when you do so.

Sometimes, I put things in AH merely to free up my bag space....and couldn't care less if I could get more gold that I can't really use.

[elsegundo]

Too low? Define "too low"? Do we ask for opinions on price before posting in AH?

Can't I sell for whatever I want to sell for? Who says I didn't do the work colleting mine, and I just don't want to wait to get top dollar (er...gold)?

If you think it is too low, please feel free to make money off of me. I'm pleased when you do so.

Sometimes, I put things in AH merely to free up my bag space....and couldn't care less if I could get more gold that I can't really use.

too low is when people like those who have already replied see a steal and buy it to resell. that's too low. kinda no brainer really.

yes you can sell it for whatever you want. but you're missing out on what you can potentially make. if you dont want to make more, then fine sell it for cheap. and besides, you're not really "waiting" to get top dollar. you list your things, log out, come back the next day with the items sold. i do the same. i get more with the same turnaround. how is that waiting to get top dollar? lol and its not even top dollar. its listing things back at the "usual" price. read the replies again.

try not to pick a bone with me. its pretty futile.

[mesonm]

too low is when people like those who have already replied see a steal and buy it to resell. that's too low. kinda no brainer really.

yes you can sell it for whatever you want. but you're missing out on what you can potentially make. if you dont want to make more, then fine sell it for cheap. and besides, you're not really "waiting" to get top dollar. you list your things, log out, come back the next day with the items sold. i do the same. i get more with the same turnaround. how is that waiting to get top dollar? lol and its not even top dollar. its listing things back at the "usual" price. read the replies again.

try not to pick a bone with me. its pretty futile.

Not at all...you phrased your statement as if someone is ruining the market for you....and I am stating that it doesn't ruin my market.

Your goal may include squeaking every little amount of gold out of a purchase, while mine is to just get rid of some items. My goal has nothing to do with maximizing return, since the gold I already have is largely useless.

I love the fact that buying and reselling works, or I wouldn't have the gold I do have.....I just don't need to do it much anymore.

[elsegundo]

Not at all...you phrased your statement as if someone is ruining the market for you....and I am stating that it doesn't ruin my market.

Your goal may include squeaking every little amount of gold out of a purchase, while mine is to just get rid of some items. My goal has nothing to do with maximizing return, since the gold I already have is largely useless.

I love the fact that buying and reselling works, or I wouldn't have the gold I do have.....I just don't need to do it much anymore.

ahh, not just ruin the market for me, but ruins the market for everyone else who's decided to invest their time in it, hoping they can somehow make enough money to pay for their epic flyer. sorry i thought you were simply trying to nit pick at my post.

actually i dont try to squeak out every little amount of gold out of a purchase. i've never said that. i will sell things for what the market sell, and even then, it fluctuates but not by much. and, if there is a person selling for too low, or low enough that i can buy it all up and make a decent profit from it, i'll do that. i will not sell for the highest amount, or even in the upper end of the current selling range. again, you've assumed that i try to maximize my profits when i actually dont. seeing an oportunity to make some money is not the same.

[mesonm]

again, you've assumed that i try to maximize my profits when i actually dont. seeing an oportunity to make some money is not the same.

It seems that you and I are close to the same page....

I used a technique similar to yours, and made enough to purchase the second epic flying mount and training, on a second character, and still give me a few thousand left over....then, I got bored with it, and now often sell things just to get rid of them and open bag space. The price I sell them for is often one that is taken advantage of fairly quickly...often within an hour.

And, I still claim it doesn't ruin a market at all, but instead creates a submarket....Its all in the semantics.

[elsegundo]

i see your point. i havent reached your stage yet, as i still try to sell things cheaper than most sellers, but not try to sell things lower than everyone else just to get rid of items. i do have bag space issues at the moment, but eventually it clears up even at competitive prices.

[Tanalin]

how did he lose? he sold his did'nt he? maybe hes a nice guy and trying to sell it cheap for other people..I hate when #$%^ people put crap up for 2000X times the amount of it..

There is a difference between selling like a greedy ass and selling like a retard trying to massively undercut people. I always buy out low auctions and relist for normal values (depending on what item it is). Being smart and being a greedy ass are two diff. things. I wouldn't want someone coming into my market and massively undercutting my auctions either.

I've bought epic gear and JC designs which turned hundreds of gold in profit. Not my fault a normally 500g+ JC design was listed at 11g. Or the epic tank ring I bought for a ridiculously low price and made 600g on. Why would I not want to make money? There is no nice guy in WoW. There are the smart people and the unknowing not-so-smart people (who are probably 12 yrs old).

[clevins]

What people who massively undercut don't realize is that they're leaving money on the table for no reason.

Let's say the market is buying item A for 400g on the low end and there are some items priced up to 450g (all prices buyout btw). If you list an item for 399g you'll show up at the top of the list (default sort order is low price at the top). If the market is buying that item at 400g, you'll sell it at 399 - people will see yours first and most of the time just click on it to buy it. Obviously you can incent them a bit more by widening the gap a bit... say by listing it at 390g.

Now let's say you list that same item for 50g. You're still at the top of the list... but we've already stipulated that people will buy the item at 400g. You might well sell faster... but you've left 349g on the table and not sold any more efficiently than if you listed at a gold or 2 under the low price.

[mesonm]

There is a difference between selling like a greedy ass and selling like a retard trying to massively undercut people.

What people who massively undercut don't realize is that they're leaving money on the table for no reason.

Tanalin, I have no clue what you mean.....Selling like a greedy ass...Please explain....Is that a high price or a low one?

As for massivlely undercutting...Are you suggesting that a seller can't sell for whatever they want? Why don't you just take advantage of that low price, and make money from it? why do you really care what the seller sells for?

I find it humorous that people that are not the seller are complaining about the seller knowingly doing what the seller wants to do.

IMO, let the seller sell for what he wants to sell for, and you should feel comfortable making a bit of gold from the experience.

Merely because the price was lower than you thought it could be isn't evidence that the seller doesn't know exactly what he/she is doing.

[clevins]

No. Massively undercutting as i used it has no value judgment and please don't put words in my mouth. The meaning was intuitively obvious from my post. Go read it again as I 'm tired of explaining things to you that are already obvious to anyone who has an open mind and minimal reading ability.

[mesonm]

No. Massively undercutting as i used it has no value judgment and please don't put words in my mouth. The meaning was intuitively obvious from my post. Go read it again as I 'm tired of explaining things to you that are already obvious to anyone who has an open mind and minimal reading ability.

Take a chill pill.

That I disagree with you is obvious. Get over it.

As for open mind...you might want to take your own implied advice...and possibly expand yours.

"Massively undercutting" has value to the seller...It just isn't your opinion.

[elsegundo]

IMO, let the seller sell for what he wants to sell for, and you should feel comfortable making a bit of gold from the experience.



i wont be the only one that sees the lower price. if enough people see the lower price, you know, when they search for prices to try to sell their items by slightly undercutting others, they'll see the lower prices and place their items lower than that. when enough people see the massively undercut prices, people will slowly shift their minds to assuming that the lower price is the "normal" price. this isnt even a matter of oversupply, especially when the higher priced items become ignored soon after. sure, one person doing this might not change anything, but if no one catches it, the prices will fall. i always have to remember that people watching the AH do not all have my thinking, and so some might think they need to sell for less in order to get a sale. i almost never undercut the lowest price, and i always get my stuff sold. but not all people are like me. so i know there are those who will not care what the prices are, but will just throw up the items for the lowest price there, just to sell even though they know nothing of the usual market price.

[clevins]

Take a chill pill.

That I disagree with you is obvious. Get over it.

As for open mind...you might want to take your own implied advice...and possibly expand yours.

"Massively undercutting" has value to the seller...It just isn't your opinion.


OK, let's walk through the argument that massive undercuts bring value to the seller. Stipulate that the seller wants to sell their item fast. Within one auction cycle at the most. That's more important to them than selling it for the maximum price they could get. At the same time, let's stipulate that they'd LIKE to get as much as they can, but that's very secondary to the goal of selling it fast.

As in my previous post, let's take an item that's selling for 400g. WE can tell it's selling because it's disappearing from the AH before the expiration period is up. NOTE: this is one failing of the AH... it's not transparent as to what items actaully sold vs expired.

OK, so the item is selling at 400g... that means that you can satisfy your requirement by listing it at a bit less, say 390g. You'll be #1 on the list... listing it for 50g won't push you any higher up. You'll be the cheapest price unless people start an undercutting war (see below). So, yes, you're leaving money on the table. It's obviously YOUR choice to do so... but my earlier point was that you're doing it and NOT getting any real advantage.

Even if you want to sell it VERY fast, if there's demand at 400g then don't sell it for 100. Sell it for 300. It's VERY likely that it will sell just as fast. So I think you're wrong, it does NOT have value to the seller in most cases to massively undercut as it doesn't result in a faster sale than a smaller undercut would.

I say 'most' because there are niche areas where you might need to massively undercut.... you're 100g short of your epic mount, you know if you list the 400g item for 150g it will likely sell within an hour. Great. You've decided that 150 now is worth more than 400g tomorrow. I might disagree ( what's the rush) but I can see the motivation. However, there are very few of those cases in the game. and unless you have some immediate need for the gold, undercutting by some massive amount doesn't bring you any advantage that you don't get by a minimal undercut.

elsegundo - yes, people might iteratively undercut you. But if there's demand for the item, they'll sell before you and you'll once again be the lowest price. If there's a flood of items this *might* push you out of the first 24h AH period. But even then you can forestall this by take a big, but not silly cut if you want (or wait it out of course).

[mesonm]

OK, let's walk through the argument that massive undercuts bring value to the seller.

Well, I would suggest we could be less assuming of what their value might be, and assume that they did it for a reason that we may not understand or agree with, and thus there is value (to them).

We may not have any clue of what their motivation is...speed, gold, clearing out their bags because they no longer use gold much, etc.

That we may not agree that the value (in gold) they get is worth it does not discount that the seller (owner of the item being sold) gets value (gold, or something else) from the sale.

I have made thousands of gold taking advantage of those undercutting sales....I have no clue why they did it....But I also don't care. they got what they wanted, and I did also. What a marvelous system!

[drewid]

I certainly agree that the seller could have multiple reasons for massivley undercutting, and good for them if they get what they desired from it. Tho to use a previous example a JC recipe (ave price 400) selling for 11g, will affect Auctioneers scanning price, so the next person who checks the price will get a lower averaged out priced, and put it in at that lower price, etc etc the market dips.

So it has to affect the market, but that is what commerce is about.
I must say when i was saving for my 60 mount i totally controlled the thorium market, i would buy out even slightly cheaper stacks and put one in quite high. Then wait for others to just undercut me, then throw the rest of mine in at a more reasonable price, sell it, wait for the others to repost their unsold ore cheaper than before and continue the cycle. This way i controlled the people trying to undercut me and the average price for thorium. This was purely motivated by others undercuting the average price and not allowing me to get decent bucks for my efforts. Once i got my mount i dont think ive even looked at the thorium market again.

[vndays]

can learn JC on a day. Non- mining. You'll lost ~ 10.000 gold to up 375.
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-snowieken

[mesonm]

I certainly agree that the seller could have multiple reasons for massivley undercutting, and good for them if they get what they desired from it. Tho to use a previous example a JC recipe (ave price 400) selling for 11g, will affect Auctioneers scanning price, so the next person who checks the price will get a lower averaged out priced, and put it in at that lower price, etc etc the market dips.

What I get from what you said is that someone depending on a mod that incorrectly processes price spikes causes a market to change.

It isn't the guy who put the one recipe up at 11g....Its the second ahd succeeding persons blindly depending on the mod that did it, IMO.

If you had said one guy puts it up at 11g, and the twenty others that follow put theirs up at 9, 8, 7, 6.5, 6, etc., I might have thought a bit differently, assuming is was an actual case of this happening....but, that isn't how the market works.

[Tikki]

mesonm is making a good point.

Like any market, it shifts up and down. If someone outrageously undercuts the price on a certain item, they're losing profit- it's just a loss to them. Someone keen on the market would take advantage out this person but buying out something on sale, and waiting for the appropriate time to resell.

If you wait long enough, the market for your select selling items will pick up again. There will probably never be a supply without a demand- that's how Blizzard has made it work.

The strategy with the AH is to have patience, and to pick the right time to buy, and the right time to sell- just like any market. Take advantage of the people who a) don't care if they make gold at the AH or/and b) don't understand the AH.

If you're REALLY trying to make money by playing the AH you have to keep tabs on it continuously...and if you notice the market one thing falling, stash it away in the bank, and resell it when there is no supply of it at the AH...the best example for me is scorpid scales. one day you can find 3 for 3g, the next 3 for 12g...watch the market, buy the low ones and resell it like someone has already mention.

I really see undercutting to be frustrating just for the individual who's losing out on the gold.

[Kasal]

The problem with a lot of sellers is that they want to have the lowest price in the list for no other reason than they want to be assured of the sale. These are the ones who drive the market down and do themselves and everyone else a disservice. When I list an item or a stack, I do so with the attitude that I have a responsibility to the market. In so doing, I'm hoping to help maintain prices that will help me when I return to list more. My price is never the lowest one; it's the third lowest or thereabouts. Sometimes it sells, sometimes it doesn't, but at least I'm not the Wal-Mart coming into the neighborhood to shut down everybody else.

[clevins]

WEll, and also... I think not just of the current sale, but future ones. Yes, I can sell the current stuff fast... but if it's something I'm going to sell repeatedly (a gathered mat etc) then if I drive the price down I'm hurting my future sales.

Not that I'm greedy or anything... :P

[buckscrib]

I pay for all my gear buying low and selling for market price. It's amazing what you can find sometimes.
http://www.mmorpg-guy.com/pics/am.jpg

[Lord Dragon]

Ok I see where all of you are coming from but there is one thing you are not taking in to account and that is what about some one that is new and do not know what to sell there stuff for??

Yes I am one of those that is new, I do not know how much to sell my stuff for I try to get the best deal for what I sell and go for what I see that the AH is selling them for but I do not see any help there.

Is there any place that I mite find a price list or something that can help me to be able to sell my stuff.

I have 3 characters that I play,
My Prim. is a Dwarf hunter Leatherworker/Skinner
2nd, is a Blacksmith/Miner
3rd, is a Enchanter/tailor

They are to help each other out :evil:

So when I make something with one of my character I would like to make a far price on what ever I make but not knowing what ever that is I sell it for what ever I see it going for on the market and that dose not help out much most of the time..

My point is this if you do not like to see undersell a lot of the time it mite be do with that they do not know what the price is???

Have any of you thought of that??? :idea:

I do not know if this mite piss any one off or yes some will under sell to get read of stuff fast and yes to make a fast pice of gold but the thing is a lot just do not know how much to sell for...

[drewid]

Its pretty simple, The prices will vary depending on supply and demand.
If someone floods the market with thorium the price will drop.
Have a look at the item that you want to sell, if there is not much then you can put a higher price on it. if there is none in the AH to compare put a little in at a price (you wont be losing money) see how quick it sells, if its snapped up you know you can put it in at a higher price.
Every one will take a while to adjust to items and their value when new to the game.
You will not be able to identify all that is wanted and valuable straight away.
One thing i did, when new to the game, was if i picked up a green or blue BOE that what was close to a bg cap lvl e.g. 17-19 or 27 - 29 i would thottbot it to see if it was a twink item then i would know to sell at a normal price or hike it up to sell to a twink.
Same with stuff like the cards (two of blessings etc...) thotbot them to get an idea.
Use addons like auctioneer and scan the AH dailiy for a couple of weeks and you will build up a database of prices and go from there.

[clevins]

Also, if you DO see items listed and there's a lot of them at, say, 4g... don't undercut TOO much. You could try undercutting a bit (so you're listed high on the first page), but if the low price is 4g you can list for 3g99s and you'll be listed on the top of page 1.

[Lord Dragon]

Thanks for the tips.. :>

[necrocellx]

just click this link to get the guide:

http://www.worldofwar.net/forums/register.php?a=act&u=408876&i=5889227

its pretty easy to use, and if u want gold its pretty much perfect

[Kasal]

Also, if you DO see items listed and there's a lot of them at, say, 4g... don't undercut TOO much. You could try undercutting a bit (so you're listed high on the first page), but if the low price is 4g you can list for 3g99s and you'll be listed on the top of page 1.

In these cases I like to match the lowest price but make sure my starting bid is lower, then I still get the same price but mine is the first on the list.

[elsegundo]

you also have to consider the volume of the merchandise and the volume of the flow of merchandise through the market. on items like, netherweave cloth, on the weekends, most of my auctions start at the third page, and they sell by the end of the day. thing is, these things fly off the shelves and get replenished really quickly. but this is just my server and i can afford to put this up at a mid-range price and still see it sell just as quickly as someone who's trying to undercut everybody.

however, the market for other things like, say gems, are different. things are slower, and you see less of them. i might only see 5 noble topazes on the auction house one day, and the next day see only 10, most of which are the same sellers. these things go slow but the do carry a larger profit than netherweave mentioned above. in situations like this, i try to not be the lowest price still, but i wouldnt want to be too expensive that my gem will sell two days later, instead of one day later. you have to guess yourself. sometimes my gems come back unsold, and other times i've only sold part of my three, yes three noble topazes (ie. two sales and one expiry).

[clevins]

And don't ignore easy money. For example if you have a toon with maxed First Aid, you can make Heavey Netherweave Banadages. They vendor for 6g. The mats are 2 stacks of NW. If stacks are put up for, say, 2g per... buy them out, make the Bandages, sell them. 2g profit! Now, it's not worth the time for a stack or two.. but I try to remember to check and see if someone is dumping theirs. If there's 20 stacks at 2g per? That's an easy 20g profit for buying them, making the bandages and walking to a vendor.

[septis]

I know I'm a bit of n00b. But my JCing is going really well, together with mining I can usually make a healthy profit...

But recently I notice that prices are getting lower and lower; what would usually make me 2-3G now are lucky to get one. Someone was selling 5 [Bronze Bands of Force] for 50s!

Question being - Will this worrying trend continue, or does the market commonly go in to a slump like this?

A thing to remember with low level items is someone may be just power leveling JC. They don't care if they could have sold those 5 items for 2 gold instead of 50s. So they may have lost 7g 50s that isn't so much @ 70. They don't want those items cluttering up their bags or mail box so they just wanted them to sell. But the market will pick back up.