How is it not illegal to post WoW pics and vids?

[undeadgnome]

I'm just curious because I don't want any trouble, but if the software belongs to Blizzard, and you post vids and pics, isn't that copyright infringement? Same thing with fanfics and posting other game pics and vids, I'm just curious if it is (or isn't) and the reason supporting that.

[surodat]

I don't think that it is, for fair use reasons. You're allowed to reproduce small parts of copyrighted material for reference, satire, etc.

[Lothaer]

of that were the case then you would not be able to take ingame screen shots which blizzard allow and if you play in a Mac then you can use the ingame movie maker.

[Richakin]

imo, they are 'user generated' items. The user creates the picture or video from the game. They are not letting you play the game itself, just showing you what that User has done.

Hence forth the video that person took could have a copyright on it. The game i believe does have a copyright..saying you cannot reproduce the game itself and give it to others to play.

I may be wrong, this is just how I view it myself.

[spadron]

Actually I'd say it probably is, if Blizzard wanted to go around serving cease & desists they'd be more than entitled to.

I'm not a copyright expert but as far as I know, it's all about unauthorised used. If Blizzard don't have a problem, then it's not a problem.

[mesonm]

I'm just curious because I don't want any trouble, but if the software belongs to Blizzard, and you post vids and pics, isn't that copyright infringement? Same thing with fanfics and posting other game pics and vids, I'm just curious if it is (or isn't) and the reason supporting that.

Regardless of whether Blizzard COULD sue someone for this (and I contend they would have a hard time winning due to the fair use portion of copyright law) a copyright owner has the complete right to decide who to sue.

IMO, Blizzard is smart to allow people to make books, videos, etc., since it serves as free advertising.

[Pharoahe]

The fact that WoW on Mac lets me take videos, makes it legit enough for me.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

I'm just curious because I don't want any trouble, but if the software belongs to Blizzard, and you post vids and pics, isn't that copyright infringement? Same thing with fanfics and posting other game pics and vids, I'm just curious if it is (or isn't) and the reason supporting that.

Real simple: Blizzard holds the copyright, and they set the rules as to what is and isn't permitted. They defined that videos and screenshots/pics are OK.

[det]

They have their own "Azeroth Photographer section" where they encourage you to send Screenies in and even Machinima competitions.

Imagine not being able to post kill shots, Ui shots and previews...they would kill their own game ^^

[Elly]

I'm just curious because I don't want any trouble, but if the software belongs to Blizzard, and you post vids and pics, isn't that copyright infringement? Same thing with fanfics and posting other game pics and vids, I'm just curious if it is (or isn't) and the reason supporting that.

It falls under 'fair use' undeadgnome, as someone else pointed out in here. Without that sites such as ours wouldn't be able to exist and it would stifle the community as a whole. Besides, it would be prohibitively expensive time-wise and financially to police the net for images and movies. They'd also be branded party poopers.

[xDarkDrifterx]

Blizz fully allows and even promotes the use of its media (not the game code) for use in video's etc. It may even bring them more business in the long run from machima loving enthusiast. But in general as some mentioned, it's all within fair use (to an extent).

Blizz even offers these pages for just that:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/community/machinima/
(talks about their fair use etc)

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/wrath/downloads.xml
(Blizz offers fan's official pic's etc to create fan sites)

:thumbsup:

[Tort]

As mentioned above, we would be allowed to use pictures and videos, even if Blizzard attempted to expressly forbid such use. The fair use doctrine protects the public from overprotective or overly litigious copyright and trademark holders.

This protection is due to the fact that copyright (and other forms of intellectual property) are not "rights" at all, but privileges granted by governments to reward innovation. To balance these privileges, Congress carved out the fair use doctrine.

Real simple: Blizzard holds the copyright, and they set the rules as to what is and isn't permitted. They defined that videos and screenshots/pics are OK.

Blizzard doesn't set the rules for what is and isn't permitted, Congress and Section 17 of the US Code does. At most Blizzard could attempt to go around federal law through their contracts and EULA (shooting themselves in the foot in the process), but they would never be able to sue for breach or copyright infringement.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

Blizzard doesn't set the rules for what is and isn't permitted, Congress and Section 17 of the US Code does. At most Blizzard could attempt to go around federal law through their contracts and EULA (shooting themselves in the foot in the process), but they would never be able to sue for breach or copyright infringement.

The Copyright laws serve to protect the producer/creator of the copyrighted works, however the producer/creator can specify terms that let people work around it, if so desired. Yes copyright law is what sets the rules, but it sets the rules so that Blizzard retains creative freedom to define what is and isn't infringement of that copyright, through the licenses and other copyright documentation that Blizzard retains. There are copyrights that work in fundamentally different ways (like the GNU Public License or GPL, for example), which pretty much gives the consumer freedom to do just about anything. Blizzard's is not nearly that open, but Blizzard does set the terms, the US Code defines the enforceability of those terms.

[Tort]

The Copyright laws serve to protect the producer/creator of the copyrighted works, however the producer/creator can specify terms that let people work around it, if so desired. Yes copyright law is what sets the rules, but it sets the rules so that Blizzard retains creative freedom to define what is and isn't infringement of that copyright, through the licenses and other copyright documentation that Blizzard retains. There are copyrights that work in fundamentally different ways (like the GNU Public License or GPL, for example), which pretty much gives the consumer freedom to do just about anything. Blizzard's is not nearly that open, but Blizzard does set the terms, the US Code defines the enforceability of those terms.

You are correct that Blizzard could abrogate fair use through the terms of their contracts, and if we as end users signed that contract we would have to abide by their terms. However, the original question was whether such use was illegal, not whether the use would be a breach of contract. So the answer to the original question is no, it is not illegal, and no matter how hard Blizzard tried they would never be able to sue you for copyright infringement if you are within the fair use exception.

It is important to distinguish between contract law and copyright law. One is governed by common law (or the UCC) and the other is governed by federal statute.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

You are correct that Blizzard could abrogate fair use through the terms of their contracts, and if we as end users signed that contract we would have to abide by their terms. However, the original question was whether such use was illegal, not whether the use would be a breach of contract. So the answer to the original question is no, it is not illegal, and no matter how hard Blizzard tried they would never be able to sue you for copyright infringement if you are within the fair use exception.

It is important to distinguish between contract law and copyright law. One is governed by common law (or the UCC) and the other is governed by federal statute.

Well, then.... you should immediately let the Open Source community know that they are effectively breaking copyright law with the modified copyright documents which are used... oh, wait...

I've not talked about the silly EULA and such. I'm talking copyright, which exists to protect the owner of the material that is copyrighted, and it is a messy tangle of laws, but basically, someone can abridge the copyright in question to allow someone else to use the material -- for instance, being able to make a copy of a character sheet in the back of a D&D rulebook that otherwise is copyrighted.

The thing about the copyright laws is.... in this case, Blizzard would need to be the organization to push for copyright violation, using the law. The government doesn't go around and check that no copyrights are being violated day in and day out. So Blizzard can define what they will or will not consider copyright violations, it is in their hands whether they will enforce it or not, and technically speaking, they can usually change their policy on that at any time.

Now, Blizzard can't really arbitrarily decide something is a copyright infringement that legally is not a defined copyright infringement, under most situations without precedent.

[Justinledwards]

Not sure what you are saying really Xlorep. I think you are saying Blizzard could choose to sue people that take screenshots if they really wanted.... in the real world, lol.

I think Tort has it right.

In basic terms - use what you want, don't try and make money out of it and credit the copyright holder.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

Not sure what you are saying really Xlorep. I think you are saying Blizzard could choose to sue people that take screenshots if they really wanted.... in the real world, lol.

I am saying that if it is within the bounds of copyright law as set down by h US code as quoted previously, Blizzard could. I'm not saying they would, because it would be difficult to do so, especially as they put the facility to do so in the client itself.

[surodat]

Xlorep, anyone CAN sue anyone else for anything. Just not successfully. What is being said is that they would have no way to win that case when it has to do with screenshots and videos, as they fall under the bubble that is fair use.

Yes there are licenses that allow for people to use copyright in different way, GNU and the Creative Commons and the like, but these things are outside of this realm of discussion as they are about giving up copyright they are entitled to. No one is entitle to utter and complete control over their own work. EVER.

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html
^^
This is a nice short explanation. Copying copyrighted information is legal for criticism, news reporting, etc. Most of Wow screenshots and videos would fall under here because:

-Not for commercial use
-A VERY small portion of the entire copyrighted work
-has no effective impact on the market share (who's playing wow vicariously through videos? :D )
-the video/picture is not the intended way in which one interacts with the copyrighted GAME.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

I fail to see how what you are saying, and what I said, are in any way in conflict with each other, surodat.

[Tort]

Copyright law is indeed fairly complicated; I should know, since I practice it for a living. :grin: For the most part, I could care less what my client or another party subjectively thinks they can get away with in regards to copyright law and getting around fair use. I also could care less what their user agreements or contracts contain. At the point that I or any other lawyer becomes involved, the only thing I care about is what the law actually is.

If Blizzard or any other copyright holder came to me and wanted to sue a user when they clearly did not have a cause of action, I would have no problem telling them to get lost. I would also warn them of the penalties for malicious prosecution if they happen to find a less scrupulous lawyer.

[Wartro]

Nope.

Remember somebody got sued for making a Guide to making gold in WoW.

Also WoTLK videos have been removed from Youtube. So iam sure Blizzard has the rights to any Video or Picture of WoW.

[TPMdm]

Blizzard asking this site, youtube, etc.... to remove content and the sites compliance does not mean it is illegal. Youtube's TV shows and movie clips are potentially illegal because they are works viewed in essentially the same way as the copywright holder intends.

[Pharoahe]

Nope.

Remember somebody got sued for making a Guide to making gold in WoW.



link? never heard of this before.

[elsegundo]

Nope.

Remember somebody got sued for making a Guide to making gold in WoW.

Also WoTLK videos have been removed from Youtube. So iam sure Blizzard has the rights to any Video or Picture of WoW.

He was asked to stop SELLING his guide, but which i do not know the outcome of this. but after seeing many gold guides and leveling guides out today... i would imagine blizzard lost that battle.

[Justinledwards]

Tort will now need to explain 'trade secret' (which I suspect WotLK falls under edit: probably not - Blizz are probably just being more diligent on their EULA for the WOTLK beta)) and copyright.

I would also suspect the removal of videos from youtube would come from corporate pressure / back-scratching.

[Tort]

Tort will now need to explain 'trade secret' (which I suspect WotLK falls under edit: probably not - Blizz are probably just being more diligent on their EULA for the WOTLK beta)) and copyright.

I would also suspect the removal of videos from youtube would come from corporate pressure / back-scratching.

Well, in the case of the gold making guild, if the guy was selling it thats a big strike against fair use.

The WotlK images is a different matter. Of course if you have signed a NDA with Blizzard, that will be controlling. But in regards to ordinary users who are just posting leaked pictures, I still think that would be protected under fair use. Trade secret law wouldn't apply in this case either. I don't think there has ever been a lawsuit against someone using leaked images and information without a ADA, so I really don't know how that would turn out legally.

[Torik]

The WotlK images is a different matter. Of course if you have signed a NDA with Blizzard, that will be controlling. But in regards to ordinary users who are just posting leaked pictures, I still think that would be protected under fair use. Trade secret law wouldn't apply in this case either. I don't think there has ever been a lawsuit against someone using leaked images and information without a ADA, so I really don't know how that would turn out legally.

That's actually a part of the law I am interested in. If a third party knowingly benefits from someone breaking a NDA, are they liable in any way?

[Tort]

That's actually a part of the law I am interested in. If a third party knowingly benefits from someone breaking a NDA, are they liable in any way?

Nope. A NDA, like any other contract, generally only binds the individuals who are a party to such contract. The NDA would not be binding as to ordinary players who are simply reporting leaked information.

Now whether players who report leaked information can be sued for copyright infringement is a different matter, as I stated earlier. My guess would be no. Not only would such use likely fall under fair use, but generally suing your customers, especially over something so trivial, is a bad idea.

Blizzard's legal department is probably more concerned with botters, hackers and maybe gold sellers than leaked information.

[Torik]

Does fair use only apply to published material? In other words if there was no NDA, would a beta tester who publishes WOTLK screenshots of copyrighted material without permission be violating copyright?

[mesonm]

Does fair use only apply to published material? In other words if there was no NDA, would a beta tester who publishes WOTLK screenshots of copyrighted material without permission be violating copyright?

I think you are asking a very unlikely hypothetical. Actually, you ask two questions....Is the first intended to ask whether you can create a textual description of a work, and do something with that, even if you didn't take a picture?

As to the second question...A software company holding a beta WITHOUT an NDA probably doesn't care if screenshots leak. whether or not it might be technically a copyright ciolation, the company would have to decide to enforce, or not.

Fair use is decided as follows:

In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include:

1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

[Torik]

I did not phrase my question clearly enough.

Essentially, since a third party who posts leaked information cannot be sued under the NDA, can they be sued for copyright violation arguing that their use of the leaked info did not constitute 'fair use' since the work was not yet published?

I am asking in hypotheticals since it seems ulikely that a game company would pursue this. Probably a better scenario would be the last Harry Potter book. If someone leaked to me the contents of the book before its publication and I published excerpts from it, would Rawlings have a case against me?