A few reasons not to rush over to AoC

[Unholy_VI]

I'm a long time wow player who was pretty well getting

burnt out on this game. I mean, its cool and all but while leveling up my rogue I realized that for about 3 or 4 hours at a time I was pretty much clicking one button over and over. I have a macro that spams sinister strike and uses riposte when it's up.

now... I don't know, something about that seems just wrong. I'm spending like hours literally hitting about 2 keys total. ooh every 10 minutes or so i might actually have to hit sprint or use a bandage but man. thats alot of time spent being totally mindless. and any class is pretty much the same if you know how to make macros.

I heard about AoC with the blood, gore, boobies and most of all.. the new and radically different combat system!

instead of mindlessly hitting one button you can use COMBOS! In my mind I'm seeing the perfect blend of WoW, Blood-soaked Asian Samurai movies, Playboy, and Tekken III!

Well, the boobies are certainly nicely rendered. The bloody fatalities are nice the first few times you see them after which they become more of an annoyance as your character stands there going through the animation of cutting off a head or whatnot for the 1000th time while you really need to be hitting the other bad guys

But by far the biggest disappointment to me is the combat system. Its not like a fighting game where you nimbly fire off several well timed joystick movements and hit a button all within a split second then start the next one while your befuddled opponent is still getting up off the ground...

no. I hit the first button. then have to wait a second or so then hit the second one. wait some more... hit the third. by that time if I'm lucky and my opponent hasn't figured out to get out of the way I can finally tap that 'Iwin' Button and... usually nothing happens. Why?

Because while I was spending 5 seconds charging up my infinite unholy strikes of unreasonably harsh beatings... he can double tap back (.2 seconds) to get a 50% BONUS to evade rate. Even worse he can push and hold 'x' when he feels the hammer is about to descend and parry the incoming blow nearly 100% of the time.

to me the pvp combat seems slow and clunky compared to wow since pretty much everything is these annoying combos.

As for the level grind.. it's brutal. instead of hitting one key over and over I hit a sequence of about 10 keys with little variation to accomplish the same task. *Yawn*

Oh, and don't be fooled... wow actually has more classes than AoC. I know, I know, 'AoC has 12 and wow has 8 WTF noob lol!' Well consider this. In the druid class every tree is pretty much a different Archtype. In WoW your warrior for instance can be a tanking prot warrior or a damage dealing fury/arms warrior. In AoC, they just made them into two different classes (conqueror and Guardian). They did the same thing with Rogues. Instead of a sub rogue and a combat rouge you have two entirely different 'classes' that both fall under the sub-category of rogue.

Getting the picture? wow has far more ways to design a character and the ability to switch between certain archtypes without having to level another character to 80.

So my take in short:
AoC = wow with clunkier boorish PVP, more realistic graphics, blood and gore (although its pretty much the same scene over and over), decent naked boobies, less character Archtypes, and equally as boring leveling.

So far, nothing really to see here or worth quitting wow over yet. We'll see how things develop but if making the next big MMO to go beyond WoW and surpass it greatly like Wow has done to The others is sucess:

I have to rate AoC a big fat fail.

[WatcherZero]

Some people dont really enjoy wows PvP as its a button mashing affair that favours the young and twitchy. From what you describe of AoC it sounds more fun as it requires some tactics.

[Twoflower]

i ll refuse to rate AoC till they are out of the beta stage. i assume this will be in around six months, but could take longer.

[clevins]

I know what you mean twoflower... but they're officially shipping and charging. Yeah, the game will get better, but...

[Unholy_VI]

Agree with it being early in the process there.

But also agree that it's fair to rate AoC. They have huge sales right now largely based on online reviews like the ones I read before buying it.

I offer a player's review based on weeks rather than hours of playing the game. I also feel that having years of wow experience gives me a good measuring stick to judge AoC by.

Looks to me like much of the AoC playerbase is still in the honeymoon phase over the graphics and the mature content. Many of the reviewers got caught up in it too and I have to admit for the first week or so after I bought it and finally got it up and running I was pretty much enraptured by it too.

But two weeks into the game I was already seeing that gameplay wise there is nothing exciting or really new about AoC. Its the same old MMO repackaged with pretty graphics.

If you are someone who enjoys the hours of one mindless repetative grinding in wow then this game might just be worth getting since you get to continue on your merry way only with different, and I would say better. graphics and figure out some new classes.

But then you could also just wait for wrath of the lich king.

[Pharoahe]

Questing in WoW (especially TBC) is not boring. You'll actually enjoy it if you bother reading the storys the NPCs tell...As far as I know AoCs quests are not very entertaining.

[Your Average WoW Player]

The biggest beef I have with AoC is the fact that I'd probably be looking to spend $200-$300 on the game. Why?
INSANE GRAPHICS.

Yeah the environment, the graphics, and the whole caboodle is really nice, but all of that comes at the cost of needing a very powerful graphics card, which my computer doesn't have. My computer will be two years old in August, and I doubt I could run AoC, even with all the graphics at the lowest settings, very well. I can run WoW with medium-high graphic settings fairly well, and all I have is the built in graphics card, nothing fancy.

The first computer I ran WoW on was over two years old when WoW was released, and apart from some issues with the infamous Lagforge (which were easily avoidable by staying the **** away from Ironforge) the game ran fine. I added 1/4 of a gig of RAM, bringing the total RAM up to 1/2 a gig and the game ran fine...Even in Lagforge.

I think the biggest drawback to AoC, and subsequently Warhammer Online is/will be the system requirements. I, and probably many others like me, really don't want to spend 200 some-odd bucks on a new graphics card, and possibly a new PSU, plus the 50 for the game and probably 15-30 for some subscription time, when I'm perfectly happy here on WoW. Sure I'd LOVE to get a new Graphics Card and be able to crank my graphic settings to max and still enjoy decent frame-rate in Shat, but I don't need to, and that's why I probably won't ever get AoC. Also, I'm happy with WoW.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

The higher the graphical intensity, the fewer existing computers can play the game. Developers effectively cut off part of their customer base when they raise the graphics bar. Combined with that a lot of developers quickly fall into the trap of making incredible graphics, and... basically skimping on the rest of the game. There are exceptions to this of course, but the odds of a game that looks good also being a lot of fun to play... are very long indeed. AoC definitely is showing signs of that from what I've read.

Like Your Average WoW Player, I also play WoW on a computer that's a couple years older. AoC's requirements are a prohibitive factor for me. The reports I've heard about the gameplay has also made me just plain disinterested in the game.

[clevins]

I'll 3rd the graphics issue. But for me it's even worse - I play on a laptop. I *can't* just slap in a new card. So I would be faced with 1) spending $1500 or so to get the new Macbook Pros (I use Macs as my day to day computers) or 2) Sit at the desk with the Windows box (and even then i might need a better card than the 256M card that's in there). But.... I game to relax... I LIKE to kick back on the sofa with the TV or music on and play. Sitting at the desk feels like work to me... and there's NO WAY I'm spending close to $2k on a new computer for a game.

[det]

If your comp is 2 years old, it should run WoW better than on medium setting..unless you gimped yourself with cheap undersized graphics card. 1 GB memory instead of 512 MB can make all the difference, too. (My comp is 2 years since the last upgrade to a 8600 card and 2 GB RAM...and even ran the game fine 3.5 years ago with a 6800 and 1 GB on release.)

As for the graphics in AoC being the selling point...well, I know that game magazines like to scold Blizzard games for outdated graphics and praise new games for the photorealistic look, then turn around and scold the game industry for making us buy new Hardware all the time.

I never liked Gothic for example....yes...nice graphics but the handling sucked. And AoC doesn't look appealing to me in that way...unfortunately. I basically learned to draw on the old black and white Marvel comics of Savage Sword of Conan and I learned to comprehend written english with The Robert E. Howard books. I love Conan...but here are already enough reasons in this thread to give it a miss.

[Twoflower]

the AoC graphics arent that amazing. stand under a tree, look up and turn with your mouse. you will get seasick after seconds.

armor and character models dont realy fit either. my guess is they were not developed by the same team, bu they look like being glued to the character model rather than weared.

and dont get me started on textures that wont load, no matter how much i turn down the settings...

but apart from that, the game is far from finished. The combat system is strangely imbalanced between melee and caster classes. Raiding is not realy thaught trough. Single target healing is almost impossible, as is real agro management. bossfights realy just consist of all people unning in and doing all their special combos with the healers AoE healing everyone a tiny bit.

The quality of the story mode realy drops after Tortage. The texts are no longer spoken. The quests grow thinner and thinner, till you run out of quests somewhere between level 45 and 55. Professions are a joke. Bossdrops are a joke. Because of the strange itemisation ideas, a white lvl 80 item can be better than a epic lvl 75 bossdrop.


till they fix all these issues, i consider the game beta and wont play it. By the time they fixed all this i ll probably have starcraft2, Wotlk and diablo 3. So basicaly i threw 90 swiss francs out of the window for a game i played 2 weeks before giving it the boot.

[mesonm]

Oh, and don't be fooled... wow actually has more classes than AoC. I know, I know, 'AoC has 12 and wow has 8 WTF noob lol!' Well consider this. In the druid class every tree is pretty much a different Archtype. In WoW your warrior for instance can be a tanking prot warrior or a damage dealing fury/arms warrior. In AoC, they just made them into two different classes (conqueror and Guardian). They did the same thing with Rogues. Instead of a sub rogue and a combat rouge you have two entirely different 'classes' that both fall under the sub-category of rogue.

Well, I guess you haven't played the various AoC specs....

the guardian is a great tank, but has a dps tree also, and other ways to spec your characters....All other classes have many variations also.

A healing class can bulletproof their healing, or can go dps, or a hybrid...I'm not sure why you say AOC merely split the classes into two different classes....I look at AoC as creating better hybrids, and forcing a different form of team play.

To each their own...AoC is cool, so far, IMO.

Wow isn't quite hitting the mark for me...

(Why is this in the WOW community discussion? It isn't about WOW at all.)

[det]

It is in a way...the OP suggests ppl shouldn't quit WoW over AoC

[Aerath]

Wait... you mean some people don't want to spend $150 to look at rendered boobies ?

:blink:

[Unholy_VI]

Wait... you mean some people don't want to spend $150 to look at rendered boobies ?

:blink:
:laugh:
well hey that part alone was worth the $150!

seriously though. I did upgrade from factory installed crappy graphic card to an 8800 (got it on amazon for $169) since I was getting a whopping 7 fps on AoC when I first got it.

I'm glad now about that though. My wow went from ~20ish fps outdoors in outland to 80+ and its like a totally different game especially in the battlegrounds. If anyone has been playing wow with a factory crap card because it 'works' now might be a good time to consider an upgrade because that 170 dollar card is darn near as good as cards that are in the $300-$400 range. and hey if you play it for 3 months it comes out to like $2 per day.

To answer the guy who thinks the talent trees in AoC are that interesting... They aren't. the differences are about as much as the difference between say tanking warrior builds. I mean he offers the guardian as an example. The guardian can't dual wield at all and can only 2h wield pole-arms (and is less than exciting doing it). The fury warrior class (conqueror) can't equip a shield at all. no healing paladins, though you do get a dark templar that ends up being pretty much a prot paladin. If you like the game that's fine man. But I stand by my assertion that wow has more MEANINGFUL ways to design characters.

And Det... you rock. I remember you from hardcore Diablo II forums. IMO that was the high water mark in MMOs If you were a good hardcore player who didn't use the cheats and hacks you were awesome. Hope they put that option in Diablo III!

[det]

Wait... you mean some people don't want to spend $150 to look at rendered boobies ?

:blink:

If that is the selling point...then why don't I see any on the wallpapers and screenies they put out? maybe I wasn't looking hard enough :)

And D2 HC...oh yeah. 15 installments of KTA. Pure untwinked 8 ppl meeting twice week and doing all acts on hardcore...get all waypoints, kill all bosses....though in all fairness with the poison bugged snakes in Nihlataks halls, we usually killed Hell Baal first, got the guardian title and then did Nihlatak.

The KTA team is still going, over at diabloii.net...amazing.

[Aerath]

Yes, that got crazy scary.

Same with the FE/LE packs you could run into sometime. Always fun to die before you even can see what killed you.

[Twoflower]

The KTA team is still going, over at diabloii.net...amazing.

tried diabloii.net the other day, i can no longer find it. all links lead to diabliiii now :(

[Davemetalhead]

tried diabloii.net the other day, i can no longer find it. all links lead to diabliiii now :(

The forums are still the same though, even if they post to diabloiii.net now ...

[PlayThemAll]

AoC never attracted my attention. Even though my interest in the game is waning, it would take a lot to pull me away from WoW. My friends keep leaving for every new game and they keep coming back. If I change it will have to be for something completely different. I get bored easily with games but WoW has kept my attention for over two years now. I've done the FPS thing to death and after WoW I don't know if I'll do another MMO.

The only thing that I could foresee would be Diablo3, only because I liked the first two so much, but that is still a long ways off.

[det]

tried diabloii.net the other day, i can no longer find it. all links lead to diabliiii now :(

http://forums.diii.net/forumdisplay.php?f=30

[TPMdm]

Yes, that got crazy scary.

Same with the FE/LE packs you could run into sometime. Always fun to die before you even can see what killed you.

MS/LE?? How about the exploding bodies that also applied their FE or LE to the corpse explosion? KAAAA-BOOOOOOOM!

[Unholy_VI]

Haha

I mentioned Diablo II and hijacked my own thread.

[det]

I am almost tempted to give it another spin during tomorrows maintenace....Bowazon, here I come...

[Urbanink]

ahhh D2 the good ol days...skipping class to sit in a non air conditioned net cafe in china town eating over priced bowl of noodle with some odd..dare i say..cat meat.AoC would make my machine go Churnoble on me, that is a big turn off.

[Wintrow]

After 10 years of FPS gaming (starting a bit after Doom 2 was released) I have had my fair share of them. I bailed out after buying Half Life 2 and not having the hardware to decently run it and not being able to persuade my wife we "needed" new hardware.

My new love came in 2002 with participating in the beta of Earth and Beyond (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_and_Beyond). That's when I discovered the wonders of the MMORPG. Since then FPS-es for me have turned into a stale dead-end where you either do everything "alone" in story-mode or frantically try and decimate eachother in the limited hardly-innovative multiplayer modes.

After EA pulled the plug on EnB I strolled past EVE Online (I wanted to continue the space-based gameplay) and City of Heroes (EVE had no character based part, i missed being able to walk more than being able to fly) and eventually landed, around Oct 2005, at WoW. The sheer casual-friendliness of it, the amusing, cheerful yet polished graphics, even the often slapstick humor (gnomes on elekks FTW!) makes sure I'll be hard-pressed to leave it.

But then again, I've always been a loyal player. I'm the MMO-companies' target audience methinks.

[Twoflower]

I am almost tempted to give it another spin during tomorrows maintenace....Bowazon, here I come...

latest laddder reset was with 1.12, middle of june. So the ladder is relatively fresh. i started a HC necro yesterday :D

1.12 also introduced the no cd patch. just copy the .mpq files from you LoD CD into your Diablo2 folder and you no longer need a CD in your drive !

of course the game is still full of bots and spammers, but if you want to join me i would be happy :) i am only lvl 6 so far :)

[shinetanny]

Although，I may not have the views of the same. Sometimes an objective look at the issue should not be too. Thinking positive points. You will find that WOW could be actually very big, very beautiful. I wish you all happy and having a great time

[Unholy_VI]

latest laddder reset was with 1.12, middle of june. So the ladder is relatively fresh. i started a HC necro yesterday :D

1.12 also introduced the no cd patch. just copy the .mpq files from you LoD CD into your Diablo2 folder and you no longer need a CD in your drive !

of course the game is still full of bots and spammers, but if you want to join me i would be happy :) i am only lvl 6 so far :)

I started playing Diablo II again this last week also.

I bought a new CD key from some semi-reputable site for $2 since I still have my disks but the cases are long gone. I decided to stick to playing normal diabloII for now because its more of a challenge than LoD. I managed to get through normal diff on carebear with a CL sorc. It involved a lot of dying and curising. My first HC char was going to be a Holy freeze paladin (curse you Pitspawn fouldog!) so I finally decided on a hybrid summoner/bone spear necro for my second attempt. He's a lot of fun kicks tail, and is a count (euro server since apparantly the CD key I bought is banned from us east and west lol). Hope to get him on the hardcore necro ladder by the end of the week (only need level 34)

Some parts like diablo and duriel were really tough and I solo'd everything.

I have to say the thing I love the most about diablo II compared to games like wow and AoC is the sheer pace of the game. I mean, things are dying left right and center..

I don't buy an MMO cause I want to rent. I buy it cause I want to OWN! And In diablo II it feels like you are owning 90% of the time rather than sitting there pushing one or two buttons for 10 seconds to kill one trash mob than doing it again then sitting there for 30 seconds eating bandaging or whatever. Then the monotany is broken by a really tough fight now and then that makes you realize why hardcore is so cool and exciting.

and forget killing some boss with predictable drops for gear. you can get pretty much anything at any time (within reason of course) and if you really think you are a champ you can ditch that resist gear and wear items that do nothnig for you but increase the chance of good stuff dropping.

I hope Diablo III will continue in the same vein. AoE in wow is really pathetic with very few good areas to do it and very few classes/build that are appropriate for it.

[Tort]

I started playing Diablo II again this last week also.

I bought a new CD key from some semi-reputable site for $2 since I still have my disks but the cases are long gone. I decided to stick to playing normal diabloII for now because its more of a challenge than LoD. I managed to get through normal diff on carebear with a CL sorc. It involved a lot of dying and curising. My first HC char was going to be a Holy freeze paladin (curse you Pitspawn fouldog!) so I finally decided on a hybrid summoner/bone spear necro for my second attempt. He's a lot of fun kicks tail, and is a count (euro server since apparantly the CD key I bought is banned from us east and west lol). Hope to get him on the hardcore necro ladder by the end of the week (only need level 34)

Some parts like diablo and duriel were really tough and I solo'd everything.

I have to say the thing I love the most about diablo II compared to games like wow and AoC is the sheer pace of the game. I mean, things are dying left right and center..

I don't buy an MMO cause I want to rent. I buy it cause I want to OWN! And In diablo II it feels like you are owning 90% of the time rather than sitting there pushing one or two buttons for 10 seconds to kill one trash mob than doing it again then sitting there for 30 seconds eating bandaging or whatever. Then the monotany is broken by a really tough fight now and then that makes you realize why hardcore is so cool and exciting.

and forget killing some boss with predictable drops for gear. you can get pretty much anything at any time (within reason of course) and if you really think you are a champ you can ditch that resist gear and wear items that do nothnig for you but increase the chance of good stuff dropping.

I hope Diablo III will continue in the same vein. AoE in wow is really pathetic with very few good areas to do it and very few classes/build that are appropriate for it.


I came from Diablo 2 to WoW, and I completely agree. WoW is a great game, so great that I can't even go back to playing Diablo 2 anymore, because everytime I load it up all I can see are little pixellated blobs. WoW graphics ruined Diablo 2 for me :cry:. However, WoW has never been able to match the pace of Diablo 2, and the pure intensity and craziness of D2.

I think the number one difference between WoW and D2 is the concept of a cooldown: in D2 almost any spell could be spammed nonstop. The lack of spell and attack cooldowns in D2 allowed the game to go much faster, and allowed the game to throw massive amounts of enemies and mobs at you, far more than any one toon in WoW could ever deal with.

I am REALLY looking forward to Diablo 3, because it seems they are keeping the basic framework for the game, but significantly improving the graphics.