AFKer's

[MrBCorp]

It seems to me whoever has more AFKer's loses AV. By AFKer's I mean people who do no damage or healing. I counted 11 people with zero for both in one game. Sometimes there are people with a little bit, say 11 damage. What can be done to combat this?

Reporting afk doesn't work. I do this all the time and occassionaly I see someone going around with pink [inactive] on them, which leads me to think these people are either botting or, more likely, multiboxing. But how the hell do they not do any damage or healing?

I've come to recognise one guy, he sits over in a little spot and does nothing for a while.

I'm thinking whatever they would need to do would be a little complex to work against it. But something needs to be done. I mean, 11 people is ridiculous, hardly worth playing.

[auntyentity]

It seems to me whoever has more AFKer's loses AV. By AFKer's I mean people who do no damage or healing. I counted 11 people with zero for both in one game. Sometimes there are people with a little bit, say 11 damage. What can be done to combat this?

Reporting afk doesn't work. I do this all the time and occassionaly I see someone going around with pink [inactive] on them, which leads me to think these people are either botting or, more likely, multiboxing. But how the hell do they not do any damage or healing?

I've come to recognise one guy, he sits over in a little spot and does nothing for a while.

I'm thinking whatever they would need to do would be a little complex to work against it. But something needs to be done. I mean, 11 people is ridiculous, hardly worth playing.

When my Alt makes it to the Alliance base, I notice several Ally AFKers as well, so I think it prolly balances out for each side. As to why they do it...this is a virtual world, so it's not like you can do anything with the honor and gear except by doing things that help you get honor and gear...then you keep going AFK to get honor and gear...ouch...my head hurts! Maybe AFKers are like magpies, and just feel the urge to accumulate things. Or maybe, they are getting geared up for the expansion.... Maybe a professional AFKer will post an explanation for the behavior....under an alias....:)

[TehDarkrunner]

I go AFK occasionally. This past weekend I managed to end up in six AV's against a full Scilla premade team. We lost the first one against them horribly, so I just sat my behind in the cave, occasionally running out to tag an alliance player with a shot, when reported as AFK.

Although I generally frown on AFK's, I am NOT going to participate against any full AV premade. I want them to win as quickly as possible so I can get into a better room......

[Imraath]

When my Alt makes it to the Alliance base, I notice several Ally AFKers as well, so I think it prolly balances out for each side. As to why they do it...this is a virtual world, so it's not like you can do anything with the honor and gear except by doing things that help you get honor and gear...then you keep going AFK to get honor and gear...ouch...my head hurts! Maybe AFKers are like magpies, and just feel the urge to accumulate things. Or maybe, they are getting geared up for the expansion.... Maybe a professional AFKer will post an explanation for the behavior....under an alias....:)
I hate pugging raids/instances so why would I enjoy pugging a battleground? But sadly, this is the only real option for the MASSIVE grind you need to do in order to compete in Arena.

I don't like it when there are afk'ers in the battleground, but I definitely understand why they're there.

[auntyentity]

I go AFK occasionally. This past weekend I managed to end up in six AV's against a full Scilla premade team. We lost the first one against them horribly, so I just sat my behind in the cave, occasionally running out to tag an alliance player with a shot, when reported as AFK.

Although I generally frown on AFK's, I am NOT going to participate against any full AV premade. I want them to win as quickly as possible so I can get into a better room...... I agree with that...walking into an EOTS with no towers flagged and down 1700 to 300, I tend to stay on the rock, as well...I think the OP was referring to peeps who do that all the time, regardless of what the chances of winning are. I confess, I still can't understand that.

[MrBCorp]

I agree with that...walking into an EOTS with no towers flagged and down 1700 to 300, I tend to stay on the rock, as well...I think the OP was referring to peeps who do that all the time, regardless of what the chances of winning are. I confess, I still can't understand that.

Yes yes I can understand if you're getting trounced and you want to lay down so they can win quickly, but why oh why sit there game after game (often I see the same ones)? Are they that bored with the thing? Are they multiboxing or alt-tabbing (watching a movie or something)?

Sometimes it balances out. But other times it doesn't and can get awfully one sided. Especially with 11 afk. That leaves 29 if it's a full bg (av talking about here), some stuck in defense and the rest spread out, way too thin to win IMO. It gets very annoying.

[jschild]

I go AFK occasionally. This past weekend I managed to end up in six AV's against a full Scilla premade team. We lost the first one against them horribly, so I just sat my behind in the cave, occasionally running out to tag an alliance player with a shot, when reported as AFK.

Although I generally frown on AFK's, I am NOT going to participate against any full AV premade. I want them to win as quickly as possible so I can get into a better room......

You know you can queue into multiple battlegrounds right? Switch to a different one, and when done, try again.

Getting beat horribly by a premade, then going right back into line (while they do the same) just means you are gonna run into them again.

Switch to a different BG, win/lose it, and try again and hopefully you will be off-cycle from them.

You can also queue for a specific AV - will take a bit longer, but you can avoid them better that way also.

[Huurka]

I go AFK occasionally. This past weekend I managed to end up in six AV's against a full Scilla premade team. We lost the first one against them horribly, so I just sat my behind in the cave, occasionally running out to tag an alliance player with a shot, when reported as AFK.

Although I generally frown on AFK's, I am NOT going to participate against any full AV premade. I want them to win as quickly as possible so I can get into a better room...... Please die.

[Imraath]

Please die.Constructive and straight to the point! Well done!

[Shellar]

Hard work and extra effort pays off in the future, but laziness pays off immediately.

[Amra]

I was in WSG once and Alli got the first flag. Someone says "Well we lost. Just let them win so we can get done faster." wtf?

Turns out Horde won. I have a very slim hope that the person learned a lesson.

[jschild]

They prob didn't. There are a vast amount who want easy wins, every single time. They also tend to join Premades whenever possible. They, of course, deny that premades are made to farm easy honor, but the fact that almost every premade I have ever seen runs when confronted with another premade tends to make me think otherwise. YMMV however.

[Imraath]

They prob didn't. There are a vast amount who want easy wins, every single time. They also tend to join Premades whenever possible. They, of course, deny that premades are made to farm easy honor, but the fact that almost every premade I have ever seen runs when confronted with another premade tends to make me think otherwise. YMMV however.You missed the changes, eh?

Blizzard have made premades a thing of the past. Now it will only match one premade group against another and because the numbers of premades are very small now, you don't have the option of group vs group.

All this because pugs were moaning that they were getting rolled... It was a stupid change.

Somehow in PvE, you have to preform _all_ of your groups, yet PvP should somehow be different? It's a gravytrain loot system. Broken. Completely broken.

[jschild]

You missed the changes, eh?

Blizzard have made premades a thing of the past. Now it will only match one premade group against another and because the numbers of premades are very small now, you don't have the option of group vs group.

All this because pugs were moaning that they were getting rolled... It was a stupid change.

Somehow in PvE, you have to preform _all_ of your groups, yet PvP should somehow be different? It's a gravytrain loot system. Broken. Completely broken.

Yes, insane to require fair fights. Sorry you can't roll PuG's all day with your "Awesomeness". How about you run to a lowbie area and gank them all day too to show how big and tough you are. Kick some sand in some children's faces and beat up some old people while you are at it.

Just like Arena groups similarly skilled groups, Premades should only fight Premades. Funny that once the free honor/broken system was implemented you big tough guys stopped running premades. Why is that? Why can't premades fight premades all the time? Unless.....maybe they never wanted fair fights.....Hmmmm, funny that.

[Imraath]

Yes, insane to require fair fights. Sorry you can't roll PuG's all day with your "Awesomeness". How about you run to a lowbie area and gank them all day too to show how big and tough you are. Kick some sand in some children's faces and beat up some old people while you are at it.

Just like Arena groups similarly skilled groups, Premades should only fight Premades. Funny that once the free honor/broken system was implemented you big tough guys stopped running premades. Why is that? Why can't premades fight premades all the time? Unless.....maybe they never wanted fair fights.....Hmmmm, funny that.
The correct solution would have been to prevent the battleground hopping that was occuring to roll pugs. That way, premades would be forced to fight other premades.

There's nothing "fair" about the current situation... It's a dice roll. I'd rather be able to preform my group to ensure that 1) there are no AFKers in the group 2) There is a proportional number of healers and 3) That the group contains people that will follow instruction and have spec'd for the encounter.

The same thing occurs in PvE and Arena, why shouldn't it in Battlegrounds?

And wow... You didn't need to be an ass about the topic.

[jschild]

Feel a little too strongly about it and was an ass about it. Sorry to all I might have offended.

Back to topic, AFK'ers should be able to be booted from the BG or something similar, like 5 votes kick them out automatically and out for 10 minutes. Could be abused but anything would be better than the "Oh, I'm AFK, let me kill one guy so thats gone" routine.

There's nothing "fair" about the current situation... It's a dice roll. I'd rather be able to preform my group to ensure that 1) there are no AFKers in the group 2) There is a proportional number of healers and 3) That the group contains people that will follow instruction and have spec'd for the encounter.

The same thing occurs in PvE and Arena, why shouldn't it in Battlegrounds?

You go to the troops that you are given.... I guess I just think that if people wanted Premades to have the challenge of real fights they would do it more often, as oppossed to the constant rolling of PuGs for super easy honor, which was what happened 90% of the time.

[Imraath]

You go to the troops that you are given.... I guess I just think that if people wanted Premades to have the challenge of real fights they would do it more often, as oppossed to the constant rolling of PuGs for super easy honor, which was what happened 90% of the time.

I guess I come from a position that random groups _should_ get rolled. I wouldn't expect 10 random people to be able to clear something as easy as Kara, so why should they win a battleground?

To even call battlegrounds a pug is incorrect. Even a PvE pug has some sort of balance. A tank, three dps and a healer. If you don't have that, you fail. Why should it be any different with a battleground?

[clevins]

I'm on the side that premades only seem to want to roll PUGs - if there were a lot of people who wanted to just BG and wanted to do that with their friends, they'd be more popular even if t hey were matched up against other premades. Since there aren't more, I've got to conclude that premades aren't there for good PvP, just honor and marks farming

As for the PUGS should get rolled - no and for several reasons:

1) One of the things I like about BGs is that I don't have to put together an entire group. It's a nice balance between soloing and group instances/raids. I can pop in, do a couple of BGs, go eat dinner, come back, do some more... They're not as efficient as premades would be, but it's a nice way to be able to PvP with little overhead. If you simply allow premades to roll PUGs all night you take away most of the fun - no one likes being overwhelmed. And, I guess... I just have little sympathy with people who see WoW mostly as a one large loot quest. Yeah, I like loot too - but only because it helps me do better in the game. But it's a GAME... I don't want to turn everything into some demented efficiency exercise... how much XP/hour can I get, how many marks per hour or honor per hour can I farm... . I'm not sure about others, but I PvP mostly for the fun - both of fighting and of coming together as a team and winning. The latter's really nice when it happens in a PUG... but even if I lose.. meh, I try to have fun. If I'm not having fun, I log and do something else.

2) The comparison to raids and instance groups seems off to me. In neither of those do you fight another group of players - the trash and boss are always the same and they're inanimate. If you clear SP in 25 mins you're not affecting anything real - if you roll PUGs all night long you're affecting other players.

[MrBCorp]

Back to topic, AFK'ers should be able to be booted from the BG or something similar, like 5 votes kick them out automatically and out for 10 minutes. Could be abused but anything would be better than the "Oh, I'm AFK, let me kill one guy so thats gone" routine.

What makes it worse is when you get people who aren't even afk, they're just not doing anything but apparently reading what goes on. I made a comment in an AB match about us being one person down, and the guy, knowing full well that I was talking about him, said "oh is someone afk?" It really pissed me off. So these people are actually in the game, just not doing anything to help? Are they playing for the other side or something? Spying???

Damn bludgers...

[jschild]

Thats why a removal system would be much more effective. It would need 1/2 or sometihng to click player AFK or something, but would remove them from that game completely.

There are other options, to be sure, but Blizz really needs to replace the current system.

[Clavina]

I think a removal system would be open to abuse

[jschild]

It would be, thats why you would need at least half of all players to mark said person. Heck your lucky to get that many people coordinated in BG's anyway so should be safer.

Also make it a temp-bannable offense if it is abused. Should make most people think twice before saying "lets bump the newbie". Make it unusuable for the first few minutes of a game (to eliminate people bumping newbies or classes they don't like). Also make them unable to be removed if they had done x% of total damage or healing.

SOmething like that would at least limit abuse while making it easy to get rid of real AFK'ers.

[Clavina]

I don't disagree with the idea of a better afk system. However judging by the amount of usage of the current one (ie not very much) it just seems pointless to change it when it won't make any difference anyway. The average AVer is only capable of a mindless balinda -> vanndar zerg, so managing an afk system would be beyond them.

[jschild]

That highly depends on your battlegroup. We routed the alliance after being behind for the first 10 minutes to stop their advance and push them back. Defense rallied and held the Alliance offense and our Offense finally managed to push by and take the remaining two towers to grab a win.

Stormstrike AV tends to be much more of a capture the towers game than rush the bosses, with lots of direct PvP battles.

[Imraath]

I'm on the side that premades only seem to want to roll PUGs - if there were a lot of people who wanted to just BG and wanted to do that with their friends, they'd be more popular even if t hey were matched up against other premades. Since there aren't more, I've got to conclude that premades aren't there for good PvP, just honor and marks farmingThe issue was hightened because of the ability to switch between battlegrounds until a pug was found. Premade groups were farming because they could and it was the easiest way to get fast honor. If they couldn't switch between battlegrounds, they would be forced to fight other premades. Pugs would still get rolled, but it wouldn't be under the same conditions as earlier.

As for the PUGS should get rolled - no and for several reasons:

1) One of the things I like about BGs is that I don't have to put together an entire group. It's a nice balance between soloing and group instances/raids. I can pop in, do a couple of BGs, go eat dinner, come back, do some more... They're not as efficient as premades would be, but it's a nice way to be able to PvP with little overhead. If you simply allow premades to roll PUGs all night you take away most of the fun - no one likes being overwhelmed. And, I guess... I just have little sympathy with people who see WoW mostly as a one large loot quest. Yeah, I like loot too - but only because it helps me do better in the game. But it's a GAME... I don't want to turn everything into some demented efficiency exercise... how much XP/hour can I get, how many marks per hour or honor per hour can I farm... . I'm not sure about others, but I PvP mostly for the fun - both of fighting and of coming together as a team and winning. The latter's really nice when it happens in a PUG... but even if I lose.. meh, I try to have fun. If I'm not having fun, I log and do something else.There are world pvp objectives, cities to raid, players to kill... These are there for casual and off the cuff pvp. Also, i'm not saying that we should remove the individual queuing system of battlegrounds, but I am saying that you shouldn't expect to do as well when you're 15 random people thrown together.

2) The comparison to raids and instance groups seems off to me. In neither of those do you fight another group of players - the trash and boss are always the same and they're inanimate. If you clear SP in 25 mins you're not affecting anything real - if you roll PUGs all night long you're affecting other players.Somebody has to lose. Eventually, pug groups would learn that you need to organise prior to joining. Inter-realm competition would end up being huge and more valuable to the system than the current afk farming is.

[clevins]

There are world pvp objectives, cities to raid, players to kill... These are there for casual and off the cuff pvp. Also, i'm not saying that we should remove the individual queuing system of battlegrounds, but I am saying that you shouldn't expect to do as well when you're 15 random people thrown together.

I don't expect to.

World objectives are an abject failure - no one cares about them and the only reason anyone raids Halaa is to get their vendor to spawn for rep items. City raids are NOT off the cuff, and you can't kill players on a PvE server. So for anyone on a PvE server and most people on PvP servers BGs are the best, most straightforward way to get some PvP in.

as for preventing queue hopping, yes it would help. But you're still catering to premades who want to farm honor and marks. If premades are so damn much fun... why aren't there more? Answer... because they have to fight other premades and that's not efficient farming.

Oh and to anticipate the "but the queues are so long' argument... If a lot of people wanted to run premades, the queues would not be that long. It's a supply/demand thing.

[Imraath]

I don't expect to.

World objectives are an abject failure - no one cares about them and the only reason anyone raids Halaa is to get their vendor to spawn for rep items. City raids are NOT off the cuff, and you can't kill players on a PvE server. So for anyone on a PvE server and most people on PvP servers BGs are the best, most straightforward way to get some PvP in. I suspect that if the loot rewards were as good as those found in the battlegrounds, there would be a LOT more pvp in Halaa, Hellfire, Terrokar and the like.

as for preventing queue hopping, yes it would help. But you're still catering to premades who want to farm honor and marks. If premades are so damn much fun... why aren't there more? Answer... because they have to fight other premades and that's not efficient farming.

Oh and to anticipate the "but the queues are so long' argument... If a lot of people wanted to run premades, the queues would not be that long. It's a supply/demand thing.The way I see it would be a gradual push toward premades being the norm. Of course premades are going to relish a match against a group of randoms for the easy honor, just as a pug at the moment will take the honor and run from a five-cap AB because the other team didn't have the numbers at the start of the match.

The main issue I have is that battlegrounds don't cater to casual pvpers who enjoy a fight, they cater to the lazy. And the rewards for laziness in battlegrounds is just the same as those that scrap the victories as hard as they can.

[clevins]

I suspect that if the loot rewards were as good as those found in the battlegrounds, there would be a LOT more pvp in Halaa, Hellfire, Terrokar and the like.
Sure... if you give epics for everything, people will do it. And they'll try to game it so they can farm it rather than doing it because it's a fun part of the game. Loot is not the universal answer to game issues.


The way I see it would be a gradual push toward premades being the norm.

Which I don't want to see. If you want to make a premade, go ahead, You can RIGHT NOW. You just can't queue against PUGs. BG PUGs are the only bridge between solo play and organized group play. And if someone is that serious about group PvP... there are Arenas.


The main issue I have is that battlegrounds don't cater to casual pvpers who enjoy a fight, they cater to the lazy. And the rewards for laziness in battlegrounds is just the same as those that scrap the victories as hard as they can.

Agreed. Part of the issue is the BG design - for example, you can't increase HK rewards because then people will not want to D (as if they do now... ). The new BG is an interesting place - rounds where you alternately D and O. We;ll see if that reveals some new mechanics.

[Imraath]

Sure... if you give epics for everything, people will do it. And they'll try to game it so they can farm it rather than doing it because it's a fun part of the game. Loot is not the universal answer to game issues.Oh, I agree... It's why i'd love to see the arena gear removed from the BG loot table completely.

Which I don't want to see. If you want to make a premade, go ahead, You can RIGHT NOW. You just can't queue against PUGs. BG PUGs are the only bridge between solo play and organized group play. And if someone is that serious about group PvP... there are Arenas.If you're serious about group PvP, you need to grind a whole lot of time in the battlegrounds. If you don't, you wont succeed. But this new system has made it harder for people to succeed in battlegrounds.

What I don't understand is that it wasn't hard to get into or form a premade group. There were usually dozens on our realm at any one time to pick from (during peak times). It's still very achievable in solo/casual play.

Certainly a LOT easier to do that than it is for the casual PvE player looking for an instance.

Agreed. Part of the issue is the BG design - for example, you can't increase HK rewards because then people will not want to D (as if they do now... ). The new BG is an interesting place - rounds where you alternately D and O. We;ll see if that reveals some new mechanics.I suspect that the team with the least amount of afk players and the right balance of healers will win.

[clevins]

I suspect that the team with the least amount of afk players and the right balance of healers will win.

hehe... yes. very true

[Kasal]

The current battleground setup practically begs to be abused by AFK'ers. Like everything in WoW the time commitment is so immense to get the gear you want, that a significant number of people are going to follow the path of least resistance. Personally I really enjoy playing the battlegrounds (especially if I turn off the chat), but it doesn't put sandpaper in my shorts when I run past an AFK'er or bump spaulders with someone who is obviously botting. I'm not saying it's right, but I certainly understand it.

[jschild]

What huge time commitment in BG's. Earning 2k honor an hour is easy.
Marks can be the only pain, depending on the W-L rate for that BG (For example, I despise EotS, since we win only about 35% of the time).

[Kasal]

What huge time commitment in BG's. Earning 2k honor an hour is easy.

2k honor an hour? Uh, no.

[clevins]

2k honor an hour? Uh, no.

Probably not per hour but you can get a lot of honor fast. My AVs vary between 200 and 450 per depending on whether we win or not. Over time we win about 60% of them... so let's call it 300 per match. 4 matches an hour... 1200 or so per hour. Do that on a bonus weekend (like the one coming up) and you can easily get 4-6 honor in 3-4 hours.

[jschild]

Umm yes. When I am going for honor I hit all of the BG's.

When I trade marks for honor, I easily break 2k per hour. Probably should have stipulated that however.

[Kasal]

Umm yes. When I am going for honor I hit all of the BG's.

When I trade marks for honor, I easily break 2k per hour. Probably should have stipulated that however.

Well yeah, if you're trading marks for honor then the sky's the limit.

On the Emberstorm battlegroup we win about 1 in 5 AV's, averaging 350 honor per match overall. Matches go as long as an hour or as short as 10 minutes, but 20 minutes seems to be the norm. Add it all up and I'm pulling in 1000 honor per hour almost exactly.

Mayhaps I need to switch servers. :smiley:

[jschild]

Yeah I'm lucky on my battlegroup. Horde wins AV about 85%. its close to 60% for the others except for evil, evil, EotS.

[Imraath]

Umm yes. When I am going for honor I hit all of the BG's.

When I trade marks for honor, I easily break 2k per hour. Probably should have stipulated that however.
Even trading marks, I find 2k hard to believe. Maybe this is the horde experience on your battlegroup, but this is hardly the norm.

[jschild]

It comes from having 3 bgs we win most of the time. On Alliance side in the same battlegroup this would def not be the standard experience.

Which...really sucks honestly and reminds me of why I went to the horde in the first place. I forgot how horrible it was for my first Ararria running AV (which horde wins 85% of the time on my battlegroup).

Didn't even think about the experience from the flip side and how much Alliance must hate grinding marks with the W/L rates I experience.

[Imraath]

Didn't even think about the experience from the flip side and how much Alliance must hate grinding marks with the W/L rates I experience.It's a compounding issue. The more games that are lost, the more likely people will just afk or run around doing nothing to avoid the afk flag.

AV games with no bonus honor are not uncommon.

[jschild]

Now I haven't run into that issue since the change. Before that, it was that bad. On our battlegroup its always a fight, just one we usually win. Typically 450-200 wins on horde side.