Minimum Kara stats for ALL classes...

[Mazhulsage]

Okay, I'm wondering what the minimum stats for ALL classes are, for just one single post, no needing to visit each classes forum to see, just have it all in this one thread.

I only know a couple of the minimum requirements, and I don't know all the spec's requirements, which on some it's very very similar (Mage for example).

So please, give a minimum (and if you'd like, an expectation of what you'd come out of Kara with stats) requirement of each class, and possibly spec's expectations.

[Twoflower]

this thread keeps reappearing each month -.- try the search. i think the last one even had exactly the same title...

[Mazhulsage]

These are by far not absolute, and they're certainly not the REQUIREMENT. I made adjustments to a couple things, such as Feral Cat Druid (Previously 23% crit and 2000 AP, come on.)

------------ Druid ------------
* Balance
7,000 health
8,500 mana
550 +spell damage
6% +hit
15% +crit

* Feral (bear)
415 defense and Survival of the Fittest talent
20,000 armor
12,000 health
20% dodge
1,000 attack power
20% crit

* Feral (cat)
2,200 attack power
28% +crit
7,000 health

* Restoration
900 +healing
90 mp5 while casting
6,000 health
7,500 mana

------------ Hunter ------------
7,500 health
200 intellect
1,800 attack power (including Trueshot Aura if applicable)
5% +hit
18% +crit

------------ Mage ------------
6,000 health
8,500 mana
550 +damage
6% +hit
15% +crit

------------ Paladin ------------
* Tank
9,500 armor
450 defense
9,000 health

* Healing
6,500 health
900 +healing
80 mp5 while casting
8,000 mana

------------ Priest ------------
* Healing
1,000 +healing
100 mp5 while casting
5,000 health
7,500 mana

* Shadow
6,000 health
8,500 mana
550 +damage
6% +hit

------------ Rogue ------------
7,250 health
1,200 attack power
9% +hit
24% +crit
Pair of 71 DPS weapons

------------ Shaman ------------
* Elemental
7,500 health
8,500 mana
550 +damage
250 +crit rating

* Enhancement
7,500 health
7,000 mana
1,000 attack power
20% +crit

* Restoration
6,000 health
8,500 mana
1,000 +healing
90 mp5 while casting

------------ Warlock ------------
500+damage (600)
5% +hit
12% +crit
350 stamina (over 8k health)
350 intellect

------------ Warrior -----------------
* Tank
490 defense
11,000 health
11,000 armor

Fury warrior unbuffed in battle

9k health
1300 AP
10% hit
23% crit

Arms warrior unbuffed in battle
9k health
1400 AP
27% crit
3% hit

Edit: Twoflower, I did search, there IS a couple threads SIMILAR to this, but don't have all the information available, and specifically, don't have posts of people who have actually gone through Kara as each spec, and know the minimum.

Plus, I also added "What you expect to come out of Kara as" to it. Certainly different than other threads.

[Cerberus]

That list was discussed in that post. At the top of my head:

The +dmg estimates are very low, so are the +healing ones. Manapool is not relevant to any class past 5 man instances and the list seems to assume manapool=how long untill out of mana. Hunter AP is set very high and probably assumes people will be raiding as MM. The HP recommended for dps is set very high relative to the tanks. Can't answer for the rogue and dps warrior stats, but it would be pretty safe to assume they are on the low end as well.

The list is pretty outdated at this point. Those stats are more like what you'll get away with if you're trying to do the first bosses. You won't have much fun with a 11k hp tank backed by healers with +900 heal for the last bosses. You can expect a lot more from people now that S2 is available from honor and people have access to BT quality badgegear. You can meet all these requirements (apart from hp on dps) without setting foot in an instance at 70.

The biggest difference going from 5 man to raids will be if people get rid off bad habits (rend, serp sting, aimed shot, pyroblast etc) and do some research on how to do sustained dps with their class. Using PvE speccs should also be mentioned and kinda follows from that.

Have to add that using feral druids (cat) as dps is questionable allthough you might want a druid to dps instead of tanking some places.

[clevins]

Virtually no single person has done Kara as all of those classes and specs, so of course you're not going to find a discussion from people like that.

The rogue numbers are off. health is too high to start, AP is too low, crit is fine for daggers, high for swords and they should have the S2 weapons. Anyone too lazy to get the S2 weapons shouldn't be in Kara...

The shadow priest numbers are off too. damage should be 750ish, mana will be maybe 7k.

[Mazhulsage]

I never expected a single person to tell me all of these stats... I expected a few people to have come out as an off-spec and told me how close the stats were to being true.

One big thing I have to ask though is... What about Feral Druid tanks? Are they close to what is needed? I mean... I realize most of the time they'll be the off-tank, but my Druid is currently sitting at about 13K health, 400ish Defense, 16.5K armor, and about 70 resil... I realize the armor is on the low end... But starting Kara will I absolutely need the 18-20K armor like it's suggested? Also, what about the defense? I realize they say you need 415, but I have around 70 resil, do I TRUELY need 415 compared to 400+70 resil?

[Cerberus]

Druids can maintank just as good as a warrior unless mechanics on the fight prevents them from doing so. There are very few of those, but sometimes you'll prefer a warrior tanking. Spell reflect, shield block&crushing blows and fear being keywords here (I might be forgetting something). On the other hand druids come out better on bosses that can't crush or for tanking multiple mobs.

I don't remember exactly how the resilience=defense conversion works out, but I'm pretty sure 70 res will make up for those last 15 defense. You really need to make sure you're uncrittable however. Being critted on top of a crushing can lead to a very short boss fight.

[Aerath]

You need 5.6% crit reduction. How you get there is irrevelant.
3% should be from talents, remainder from Resilience and/or Defense.

16.5k Armour seems very low. 13k health might be fine depending on your group make up and whether that was listed as caster form or bearform.

AP and crit listed above are totally stupendous and irrelevant.

--

Anything less than 6k health on anyone can get the hell out, no matter if they're healers. I would be loathe to accept anything below 7k to be honest.

The tank listings for Paladin and Warrior are complely off (9k health on a tank, wtf ?).

I think you're actually better off ignoring that list than taking it in as gospel because it's way too low on a number of vital items and too high on some others.

[clevins]

Well, that's a list that was proposed a LONG time ago for just starting Kara, i.e true minimums.

For the rogue, in PvE blues I was 6.6k hp which was fine. That scaled swiftly with new gear and, frankly, if your dps is getting pounded on a lot you have other issues.

Healers the same way - a new kara healer might well be in Whitemend/PMC which sucks stamwise.... but is a good way to start Kara.

No group on with reasonable starting stats will be clearing Kara at those stats, but what the OP (of that list, not this thread) was asking for at the time is "what should we have to even stick out heads in and do OK?"

[Mazhulsage]

Well, I'm going to have about 18K armor today with about 13K health and I have OVER the % needed for anti-crit. I have 3/3 SotF, about 400 Defense, and 70 Resil, which leaves me at just over -1% chance to be crit. I can probably get another 300 health or so, and I still haven't put my last point in Thick Hide, so I'm actually going to be at around 18.5K armor and I don't have Earthwarden, which I obviously should get, even though I have a really nice +AP staff with a good amount of Resil and stuff. AP doesn't matter though, armor does, I'll be over the 21K armor mark if I get it.

[Mazhulsage]

Turns out I ran Kara today instead of getting my shoulderpiece from S2, but I did get a couple very very nice upgrades, sadly no major upgrades for bear. Although I did go up about 300 armor in Bear form from them, a little more avoidance, and about 300 health. Guess I'll be spending tomorrow getting my S2 Shoulder.

[Aerath]

Not a bad choice, they're definitely among the best you'll easily have access to.

[Mazhulsage]

Yeah, it'll bump me up another 1K armor (Up to about 18K armor) and I'll start probably dropping a couple of my gem slots with +defense for +stam or +agi since I'm going to be over 1% uncrittable, so I can drop around 20 defense, which is about 6 gems worth =P.

[Trakamoocow]

Defence/crit cap will become a pain as you level up more. As you push your dodge higher and higher your defence will dwindle. My drood is like .1 or .01 over crit cap atm, can drop 1 defence point.

Using Commendation of kael (nice emergency dodge, 8-900 more health in bear, love it) and Moroes' lucky pocket watch (dont even wanna tell how long it took to get this to drop!).

As soon as I swap out my arena shoulders i'll have to re equip my Empyrean Tortoise, for about a 1.1% dodge drop from the pocket watch, and less emergency clickable dodge from the tortoise (its about half as effective as the pocket watch).

Im loath to gem for it and lose other nice stats. But were I to gem purely for crit cap, i'd recommend resil gems over def gems. Whilst def does provide some nice extra dodge, a pure +agi gem in a slot is far better imho.

Not sure what gear you have mahz, the clefthoof set at least i'd hope (guessing you do) and braxxis' staff of slumber (hands down best tanking staff until you get earthwarden). For badge gear, the neck and cloak I still use, they are freaking UBER for tank bears. SWP badge gear is equally as uber.

/end derail :p.

p.s. Thats what id meant to point out. Having emergency dodge on a bear is 'sort of' your last stand or 'shield wall', in effect. When your dodge can spike 70-75% or better in an emergency, it really can mean those extra 5 sec for healers to get you stabilised again. Don't get me wrong, it's certainly not as effective as the warrior abilities, but often I do last a ridiculous length of time on f all health because of them, can't stress enough the benefit of trinkets like these.

[Mazhulsage]

Sadly, I don't have Braxis... I spent about 2K gold gearing up the past few days, and I STILL haven't gotten my S2 shoulder simply because I got bored and played my Mage... Which, I mean, I'll get my S2 shoulders eventually, probably not within the next few days most likely.

I'm most likely going to get the +65 agi Idol, since I ran Kara and got 13 badges with a PUG, so I just need 7 more. Thing is, not the best "sap this, poly that" person so I'm going to have to learn how to do that in probably just doing 68-70 instances til I get the hang of it, and upgrade a couple POS gear pieces, then I'll hit Heroics most likely then hit Kara, even though by then I should be able to main tank most of Kara by then =P.

Uhh, within the next day I'll post my armory link.

[Mazhulsage]

Remeber, as I said, I'm not specced to tank YET, I'm still gearing up through S2.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Azjol-Nerub&n=Salivash

It might be behind, so I might not be in my tanking gear.

[Mazhulsage]

I still haven't checked to see if it updated to show my tanking gear, but since I just remembered this... Is it truely worth it to drop about .8% uncrittable for about 3K armor and to make it to 20K armor, which will also make me lose over 2% dodge, around 700 FAP, and some crit... IMO, it's not worth it, just need your guys's opinion. (Braxxis)

[Trakamoocow]

Can't see your gears from work. That said, www.emmerald.net is a decent guide to gear and where it fits, kinda. Armor is one of your primary mit stats, there'll be TTL spreadsheets out there if ya look for em (wowwiki?). The armor might not be too big a deal until post kara/until you get earthwarden. Worth the +agi enchant then.

I got an almost 13k crush from bloodboil last night, with 32k armors, so it's definitely very relevant after a point. For kara too much dodge/armor can be a chore though, and you'll get called a terribad tank for not holding aggro as well :S. Tanking is fantastic for good dps and stressful with bad ones that just want to top meters no matter what.

The good thing is it will naturally increase your situational awareness in raids; You'll naturally start panning/scanning for loose mobs, seeing if CCers are doing their jobs etc. And develop a healthy dislike for people that blow all their cooldowns in the first 10 seconds of a fight :p.

[Mazhulsage]

Lol, I'm not at ALL worried about my aggro... As far as I've seen, I can hold aggro in Bear gear against T4 DPS, and I'm almost certain they're some of the best skilled in my guild. I'm slowly working my way into 68-70 instances, even though the last few I've been DPS or heals, but I'm definately getting better at it, even though I completely understand how to tank, I'm learning how to deal with different situations and stuff.