New to AV - what am I suposed to do?

[Meds tbh]

Ttile pretty much says it all - is there a guide? Just not sure about capping things, what I should be capping etc.

Or how to :p

[elsegundo]

its just like AB, kinda. you're trying to destroy the enemy's means of resources but its calculated differently.
destroy their outpost and they lose 75 resources. kill their mini boss and they lose 100 resources. capping a mine gives you resources slowly. destroying their towers causes them to lose more resources.
capping grave yards is most important, as it keeps you rezzing closer to your goals.
there are also quests inside AV itself, but i find not too many people do those at all. looting enemies and player enemies will give you scrap armaments that can be traded in for something. im not sure. lol. its been a while!

goal of av? to get the enemy's resources down to 0 by destroying all of their resource-making "things". lol. oh and if you kill the main boss, game over for them.

[clevins]

Yeah there are really 2 ways to play AV - cap towers etc and kill reinforcements hoping to get their reinforcements to zero before yours hit there or kill the end boss on their side. Most groups go for the latter since it's a sure win and it's faster.

From an Alliance perspective a typical strat goes like this:

Groups 1-5 run all the way to the end, cap the 2 horde towers (east and west Frostwolf towers and the Relief Hut. Bypass the Frostwolf graveyard and do NOT cap it until RH is yours (if you do, they spawn at the GY right next to RH....).

Groups 6-8 kill Galv (miniboss on the way down), then cap and defend Tower Point and the tower right next to Galv. After Tower Point is capped and destroyed those people run to the end and everyone kills Drek'thar.

The reason you wait to kill Drek is that each of the towers (Tower Point and the East and West FW towers) gives Drek an add. Those adds despawn if you destroy the towers which makes Drek MUCH easier to kill.

The Horde strat is a mirror of this, but I don't play Horde so I don't know the objectives well... the principle is the same though... cap towers tied to adds, kill the endboss.

Note that capping and holding a tower for long enough (4 mins IIRC) will destroy the tower... you then don't need to defend it... it can't be recapped.

Either side can create a turtle by mostly staying and defending. For example if enough horde defend the FW towers, we can't get to them... this turns into a war of attrition and you'll then do things like cap certain towers or take the mines (whose resources are used to create new reinforcements). A turtle can easily eat 45-60 mins... a rush to the opposing boss and successful capping of the towers you need can be a 10 min game.

[Meds tbh]

If you figure out the strat for Horde let the people on my Battle Group know pls ;)

how do you cap places? Does it need more than one person?

[clevins]

Capping is like AB - right click the flag. The objective can be recapped by the opposing side like AB, but unlike AB a tower that's capped and held is destroyed and can't be recapped.

The thing I like about AV is that you usually get 200 honor or so even if you get rolled. For an honor grind it's a great place. Play this weekend if you can - it's AV weekend and a win will usually get you 600+ honor per match. It's easy to get 5000 honor in a few hours.

[elsegundo]

If you figure out the strat for Horde let the people on my Battle Group know pls ;)

how do you cap places? Does it need more than one person?

lol your battle group doesnt know?


you cap places by wiggling your hands in front of the flag at the tower, graveyard, or bunker. =P

anyway, when you're done, the horde insignia will show up but it will be gray still. just wait around to defend the banner until it turns red. once it turns red its yours. if its a bunker or a tower, the place will start to burn, and you will not have to defend it again. so make sure people are there to defend the "cap" until it burns.

the strat for my team is usually split, 10 to defend captain and the rest to go for the first GY, Aid station, bunker and the big building with the gun sticking out. i think the captain in there is belinda. or melinda. or something. linda. there. kill her and the ally are down 100 resources. keep pushing north and cap the gy... etc. make sure the 10 that were defending the horde captain, for the life of me i cannot remember his name, run back and forth defending the towers and things on the south.

if you make enough of an offensive, the ally will he hard pressed to "race" against you in the battle. the thing you do not want to do is see an ally and stop him to try to kill him. ignore him if he's not at a bunker, tower, or gy. turtles happen when you do this. try not to do this. hehe. usually the ones to destory the enemy's resources first win the game. so keep putting the pressure on them, even if they gain some ground back, keep at it. dont make it a defensive game... oh and one more thing... ignore iceblood graveyard, but not completely. you have very little tactical advantage from there. your main graveyard to look for is stonhearth. stonehearth first. graveyard capping makes or breaks AV's.

if you want to stay away from the main battle, there's always the mines to take over. once you take over a mine, the mine produces resources for you. also, when you see pilots sitting in their huts, just kill them. but do rescue your own pilots. =]

ok im just rambling on and on and on. sorry.

[MrBCorp]

I think the best strat for horde is to leave a well co-ordinated or geared group at the RH area to smash the Alliance when they come. Usually when the Alliance charge to RH there are no graveyards capped and so when they die they go back to Stormspike graveyard. From here the horde offensive can contain them in the alliance defense. The less offense the alliance have the less chance they can take RH, the Frostwolf towers and Drek. Alliance have trouble with anything less than the zerg rush, so horde usually wins from here. Let alliance ride easy to RH at your own peril.

My perspective as an alliance toon.

[jschild]

The single most effective way for Horde to win (not the most time efficent, however) is for horde to grab the first two towers and kill Bal, everyone else should wait for the ally rush and just smash them. This usually throws them off so bad they never recover in time.

This means Ally ends up heavy on defense and it makes it a much longer game, but AV is a game you cannot win on defense. Note that this only applies to the Stormstrike Battlegroup where Ally regularly does this. A more time efficent method is like what Elsegundo says.

[thefrozenpanda]

Sadly, jschild, I play on Khadgar which, unless I'm mistaken, is in the Stormstrike group with you, and it seems like the days leading up to AV weekend we've been playing sloppy on the horde side.

The problem more than likely deals with PUGs and people only caring about their honor, not understanding a win gives the most honor. "Why should I stay here and make sure SHB caps, when there is fighting on the road up ahead?"

[jschild]

What time's do you play, I've noticed that affects much. Playing during the day (Eastern Time) usually is like 50/50 for me. But I generally play after 9-10pm ET, and then it's a much different story.

"Why should I stay here and make sure SHB caps, when there is fighting on the road up ahead?"

Because it gives every single person 63 honor, which, unless you happening to be fighting in a very small group, takes a bit in AV.

[thefrozenpanda]

What time's do you play, I've noticed that affects much. Playing during the day (Eastern Time) usually is like 50/50 for me. But I generally play after 9-10pm ET, and then it's a much different story.



Because it gives every single person 63 honor, which, unless you happening to be fighting in a very small group, takes a bit in AV.

That is around the time I play as well, off and on during 7-11pm Central. If I haven't gotten frustrated and logged onto an alt for the rest of the night.

For the record though, that quote was not me, I was speaking as the horde "PUG"ers who want 10-15 minute zerg games. I make a point to stay with the towers if I'm the only healer with a small group (or generally 1 other person), otherwise I take off back for the front lines to heal the people fighting on the bridge. The problem lately is I seem to get left by myself guarding one of them only to get screamed at when my resto shaman butt loses the tower to druid/rogue combo. :laugh:

[jschild]

Well, I'll keep an eye for you. Ararria from Norgannon, I always take the SHB first, then the second tower (unless people are being good and staying inside it).

Like I said, I rarely have a problem at night with AV and according to HonorFu, I'm holding 85% win/loss ratio.

[elsegundo]

always call out incoming. even if you die, at least you might... might have some help coming when you rez. besides, on defense, you have penty of time to regain control of your tower before the enemy actually burns it down. for my battlegroup, after the defense is set, we usually stay at one spot until needed or have some people shift northwards but always watch chat for help requests. after a while, you'll see the same names over and over again. coordinate with them. =]

[Amra]

anyway, when you're done, the horde insignia will show up but it will be gray still. just wait around to defend the banner until it turns red. once it turns red its yours. if its a bunker or a tower, the place will start to burn, and you will not have to defend it again. so make sure people are there to defend the "cap" until it burns.
Does it cap faster with more people there? Or is it a set timer?

if you want to stay away from the main battle, there's always the mines to take over. once you take over a mine, the mine produces resources for you.
Is it really worth it? I know it depends on the type of game (rush vs. turtle) but in general is it a good idea? And how do you take over a mine?


also, when you see pilots sitting in their huts, just kill them. but do rescue your own pilots.
Where are these huts you speak of?

Last, I see people posting timers for towers and such. Is that an addon they have or can anyone display that info?

[elsegundo]

1. its on a timer. so no, one person, no persons, or 10 persons will make no difference.

2. no its not worth it. but if the game are drawn out, mines are usually helpful. its only a good idea if you want to do it! its really optional unless you have a quest there. its also, as i've said, something to do if you're just bored of the constant fighting. hehe. how? kill the enemies. this will give room for your gatherers to come in. once the main guy in the mine is dead, you can keep clearing the rest of the mine, or you can leave and let the npc's fight each other.

3. i misspoke. they're usually inside the towers. if you get there in time before the enemy faction kills them, you can "encourage" them to flee. once they flee... they will offer air support.

4. i dont know anything about the timers for towers. sorry.

[clevins]

Deadly Boss Mods displays timers for all of the towers. At least I think it's DBM that's doing it for me. :)

[MrBCorp]

Deadly Boss Mods displays timers for all of the towers. At least I think it's DBM that's doing it for me. :)

Yes, Deadly Boss Mods. Very useful addon. In AB & EotS it will tell you how long until the game ends and who will win.

Also, I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but the enemy General gets a buff with all four towers up. I think it's 200% health & damage. Destroying a tower removes 25% of the buff, so there is an incentive to taking out all the towers, it makes it much easier to kill the general and win easy. This is why people wait for the towers before attempting to kill the General.

[elsegundo]

Yes, Deadly Boss Mods. Very useful addon. In AB & EotS it will tell you how long until the game ends and who will win.

Also, I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but the enemy General gets a buff with all four towers up. I think it's 200% health & damage. Destroying a tower removes 25% of the buff, so there is an incentive to taking out all the towers, it makes it much easier to kill the general and win easy. This is why people wait for the towers before attempting to kill the General.

i thought destroying the towers and bunkers would reduce the number of guards around the general. :ponder:

[clevins]

Does both - the adds and the buffs both

[Amra]

Peeling the Onion
The How to Guide on Dismantling the Stormpike
-By Drek'Thar

Within these pages you will find a wealth of knowledge on battle tactics and politics. The learned soldier is the soldier that leans on the shoulder of experience. Let this book serve as a guide for your battle in Alterac Valley.

Chapter 1 - The Front Line

Dismantling the Stormpike Army is very much like peeling an onion. To get to the core, you must start by removing the outermost layers.

The front lines, comprised mostly of Stormpike Mountaineers and Alliance Sentinels are tied to the Captain's bunker. It is Captain Balinda Stonehearth who empowers these units and provides for reinforcements when the lines are under siege. Strike at the Captain and the front line forces will crumble.

Chapter 2 - The Twin Towers

Make no mistake. Vanndar Stormpike is a cunning doe and certainly no fool. Once the front line has been breached, the secondary defensive targets must still be destroyed. It is the twin towers of Stonehearth and Icewing which control the Stormpike Guardsmen outside of Dun Baldar and the Stormpike Patrols.

Beware, soldier, as both of these towers are heavily fortified and ruled over by one of Vanndar's elite Commanders. Should your forces breach the fortifications, make certain the Commander within has been...silenced. This too will be part of the dismantling of the Stormpike.

Chapter 3 - The Four Commanders

The third layer of the Stormpike opinion is comprised of the four commanders in this respect. Vanndar has mimicked our own glorious defenses. Of course he will tell you otherwise, but I digress.

The four Commanders control the ebb and flow of the Stormpike Guardsmen that fiercely guard Dun Baldar. Silence them all and the Stormpike Guardsmen will fall.

Then there is but one layer left to peel.

Chapter 4 - The Dun Baldar Bunkers

As you have undoubtedly notices, the Stormpike defensive layers are in place to prevent one mighty power move from dismantling the entire army. Before you ask, yes, this is exactly how our own forces are set up, and no i will not change out defensive structure. They copied us, why should we have to change?

Where was I? Yes, so, the Dun Baldar bunkers (which are located in Dun Baldar) control the Stormpike Defenders - Vanndar's most trusted and elite guard units. Destroy those two towers and the units sent to aid Vanndar will cease to exist.

Epilogue

After having done all of this, you are left with the center of the onion: the sweet core. Vanndar Stormpike will be left defenseless and alone. Rules of military conduct require that we ask for his surrender before carrying out any executions. Be sure to mention the surrender thing when you see him...then kill him.

[elsegundo]

or, you can kill balinda, destroy the towers and bunkers, and turtle the rest of the fight so long as your captain, bunkers, and towers are kept in tact. just keep them coming over the bridge and defending the graveyard by the bridge and you're golden. ignore those that try to sneak around, since they will have to organize themselves in order to get to a tower, or bunker, etc. and by the time reinforments arrive, they may have only been able to start to capture a tower. which leaves the defense ample time to retake. but anyway, lots of ways to play, but above is the traditional, by the book, sort of way.

[Kasal]

The problem with AV for Horde is that a coordinated effort is required in order to post a victory. And trying to coordinate 40 Horde players is like trying to organize monkeys humping footballs. Generally if Alliance all decide to zerg, they're going to win, unless at least 2/3 of the Horde team goes defence. And we all know that seldom happens.

There is always a lot of debate on whether AV is tilted in favor of Alliance, which it isn't. It's just that Horde isn't willing to commit enough people to defence, or coordinate enough people on an offensive strategy, to have consistent results.

In the end, if you want to help your team to victory, help defend the towers and the relief hut, and hope you can either win the battle of reinforcements, or stall the Alliance zerg long enough to let the offence take the bunkers.

[clevins]

Alliance strategy is basically this:

Groups 1-5 straight to RH, take it and the towers. Don't cap FWGY until RH is ours.
Groups 6-8 hit Galv, then towers and D.

If we do that, we usually win unless a lot of horde stayed at RH.

[elsegundo]

Alliance strategy is basically this:

Groups 1-5 straight to RH, take it and the towers. Don't cap FWGY until RH is ours.
Groups 6-8 hit Galv, then towers and D.

If we do that, we usually win unless a lot of horde stayed at RH.

and if horde does the same, it becomes a race. those are my favorite AVs.

[clevins]

Yep. If you do that during an AV weekend you can rack up silly amounts of honor.

On the other hand, I got in multiple turtles the other night and, since I'm not pushing for honor or AV marks, actually had fun. It was much more like real PvP - fighting at various strategic points, picking off stragglers as the came up to reinforce, etc. Sadly a few people hated it since it's slow honor/marks. I understand that... but it was fun once you let go of that aspect of the BG.

[Wintrow]

I also remember some frantic battles on the bridge. I was playing a hunter and popping into the frontlines, unleashing Multishot, setting a frost trap, dpsing a clothie. When I noticed my hp dropping too low I ran back behind the bridge's pillars, bandaged up, drank up and back in I went.

The frost traps kept anyone from making a decent rush across the bridge and eventually we won the reinforcements battle.

One day, as my wife started another AV I explained her how things went.
- cap towers, STAY in them to defend until they burn
- every tower burned down a big chunk of their reinforcements
- killing Galv isn't needed, but it's another big chunk of reinforcements and if we fail to kill the general we got a better shot at the battle of attrition
- cap a mine by going in and assassinating the boss. If you can stealth you can do this like a surgeon.
- Destroying a tower makes the general easier. He's still doable with 1 tower up though.

After that instead of always doing the wrong thing of "run around and kill horde" she played the proper strat and won a lot more. She even admitted "this is a LOT more fun now" and was reluctant on leveling past 60 because that'd drop her out of the top-range of her bracket.

[Meds tbh]

The problem with AV for Horde is that a coordinated effort is required in order to post a victory. And trying to coordinate 40 Horde players is like trying to organize monkeys humping footballs.

It's a bigger problem on EU servers as you can get 8-10 people in there who don't even speak English, not a problem I've had in other MMOs where I've played no US servers.

That said in the 1-2 weeks since I've been 51 (am 60 now) I've got about 30k honour, just over 150 AV tokens and a hell of a lot of fun. Hope the rumours aren't true that Horde lose 99% of AVs on my sever in the next tier.

PS We've had a hard time with 22 Allies Vs 40 horde some times, Horde are THAT stupid :(

[clevins]

Overall Alliance seems to win about 60% of AVs but it varies by battlegroup, bracket and things like time of day and whether or not its the daily (at 70). Contrary to superstition, neither Horde nor Alliance are very different... it's mostly chance, a bit of racials and also a bit when you're playing. On my servers in the evening the daily BG sucks.. people HK farm and are less experienced. Do the non-daily BGs and it's better. Weekends are tough as you get the casual PvPers who don't play as much plus kids who (as a group) are less about the strat and more about 1v1 battles.

A couple of things to keep in mind... 1) even if you're losing you can sometimes have fun just improving your skills.. 2) if your team really sucks and is getting rolled it will be over quick. Don't get all "OMG you other guys suck" just pick something to defend and do that... You can't turn a sucky team around by yourself. 3) If you're getting focused on a lot and dying a few seconds into battle and no one's healing you... you can leave the BG. You get a debuff meaning you can't join another one for 15 mins... but sometimes it's better to do that if you're really having no fun and it's not going to be over quickly. And finally... remember you can queue for 2 or more BGs at once.

[Meds tbh]

Overall Alliance seems to win about 60% of AVs but it varies by battlegroup, bracket and things like time of day and whether or not its the daily (at 70). Contrary to superstition, neither Horde nor Alliance are very different... it's mostly chance, a bit of racials and also a bit when you're playing. On my servers in the evening the daily BG sucks.. people HK farm and are less experienced. Do the non-daily BGs and it's better. Weekends are tough as you get the casual PvPers who don't play as much plus kids who (as a group) are less about the strat and more about 1v1 battles.

A couple of things to keep in mind... 1) even if you're losing you can sometimes have fun just improving your skills.. 2) if your team really sucks and is getting rolled it will be over quick. Don't get all "OMG you other guys suck" just pick something to defend and do that... You can't turn a sucky team around by yourself. 3) If you're getting focused on a lot and dying a few seconds into battle and no one's healing you... you can leave the BG. You get a debuff meaning you can't join another one for 15 mins... but sometimes it's better to do that if you're really having no fun and it's not going to be over quickly. And finally... remember you can queue for 2 or more BGs at once.

Can, did it in AV the other night. Pretty balanced and we just couldn't drive them back. Went to the front and started quoting Shakespeare - Cry Havok speach and some Henry V - and got them moving in the right direction. Well timed fear and MC always helps too :)

[elsegundo]

pretty balanced /= sucky

[clevins]

Can, did it in AV the other night. Pretty balanced and we just couldn't drive them back. Went to the front and started quoting Shakespeare - Cry Havok speach and some Henry V - and got them moving in the right direction. Well timed fear and MC always helps too :)

That's AWESOME! /bow

[Demontorz]

honestly the only time i'll enter a AV lately is with a premade (horde side on vindication) otherwise pug vs alliance strat is still zerg vs zerg in which case alliance always win.
And really it seems lately even what used to be horde dominated bg's like ab and eots. are changing to alliance.

anyone else on vidication see the same thing?

[clevins]

The thing I like about AV is the honor though. Even when we lose I see about 200 honor. That's about what I get when I WIN WSG and not far behind wins in EotS and AB (I'm ignoring HK honor here). If you need to honor farm AV rocks. And it's one of the few Alliance wins much so... :P

[prion]

i think i'm Vindication too and i see about 50/50 in AB.
~~~~~
as for the armor scraps, if your side loots enough armor scraps it will upgrade the NPC's armor i beleive.

doing the quests associated with AV gives you Ironforge rep if you are Alliance