moral implications of quests

[prion]

Zul'Aman got me thinking about this. The Amani were already driven to the brink of extinction--persectued, you might say. they are for the most part contained in Zul'Aman and being surrounded by Scourge they are no longer a significant threat to anybody. They aren't trying to raise demons or Old Gods, the attack on Zul'Aman seems motivated purely by the need for l33t itamz.

Does the treatment of the various "savage" troll groups by the "civilized" factions amount to genocide/ethnic cleansing?

[MixiMan]

Funny, i had the exact same thing when i first read about ZA. Then i thought: Wait a minute, it's a game. Nothing to be worried about imo.

[MrBCorp]

Funny, i had the exact same thing when i first read about ZA. Then i thought: Wait a minute, it's a game. Nothing to be worried about imo.

One might say that a game is the perfect conditioning instrument. What we do in the game can have an effect on how we act in the real world. Back when I used to play Carmaggedon there was a point where I was in the family car (as a passenger) and my mind drifted, I started thinking about veering off to the footpath and running over some pedestrians. Good thing I wasn't driving!

My .02

[odinsnephew]

One might say that a game is the perfect conditioning instrument. What we do in the game can have an effect on how we act in the real world. Back when I used to play Carmaggedon there was a point where I was in the family car (as a passenger) and my mind drifted, I started thinking about veering off to the footpath and running over some pedestrians. Good thing I wasn't driving!

My .02

Dr. Odin can see you now. Please lie back and tell me all about it :grin:

As for moral implications of killing savage Trolls? Meh ;)

[elsegundo]

well if they werent surrounded by scourge, they'd be threatening. just because something isnt showing signs of [instert whatever adj. here] doesnt mean they do not have the potential to do so. besides, we're playing different tribes/races. its our job to kill everything else. its the nature of the game.

[surodat]

Moral Implication of quests? Didn't you realize the characters are all evil when you're first task as a human is to kill helpless puppies?

[tigermeat]

Yeah, have you ever really thought about it? Whichever faction you are on, you get handed these missions which require you to infiltrate a cave/town/dungeon and kill someone/something and bring back his head/arm/weapon to prove you did, in fact, slay this person. Or the "collect 20 murloc heads" is another good one. The murlocs are just kinda minding their own business, fishing and hangin out at the beach, and along we come and slaughter them and put their heads in a big garbage bag and pass that bag onto some fat gaurd who was too lazy to do his own dirty work. WoW is a cruel world of assassination and genocide I tell you.

[clevins]

People above are right in that we are NOT nice people in WoW. We slaughter things left, right and center.

And you can't use the real world moral system in WoW. WoW is its own universe and runs according to its own moral rules. Plus, those trolls have nice shiny epics... mmmm purple....

[Eliandor]

Yeah, have you ever really thought about it? Whichever faction you are on, you get handed these missions which require you to infiltrate a cave/town/dungeon and kill someone/something and bring back his head/arm/weapon to prove you did, in fact, slay this person. Or the "collect 20 murloc heads" is another good one. The murlocs are just kinda minding their own business, fishing and hangin out at the beach, and along we come and slaughter them and put their heads in a big garbage bag and pass that bag onto some fat gaurd who was too lazy to do his own dirty work. WoW is a cruel world of assassination and genocide I tell you.

I will often make a comment in General or guild about going out to commit genocide on one group or another when doing kill or low drop collect quests. I mean this lighthearted, but that is essentially what it is.

The thing to keep in mind however is that as an MMO, there is only a slight tie to reality. When I kill those 20 naga in Zoram Strand for heads, or the oodles of murlocs for spines or fins or heads or whatever the quest is, 5 minutes later they'll all magically reappear, and kill me if I haven't left the area but sit there eating/drinking/bandaging, etc.

How many times has Hogger been killed... or all of the Kul Tiras marines and sailors in Durotar, plus their captain? But also, why is there a level 8 "boss" not more than a few hundred feet from the capital city of the country they are invading? Why hasn't that elite level 70 boss guy you turn in the Rend kill quest just wandered down there while waiting for the next group to bring him a head and exercise that massive axe he has? Why leave it to some random level 6-7 green recruits that die 3 times on the way to the captain's room?

While there might be an element of brainwashing in playing a game, I think that anyone who cannot separate game from reality and stop themselves before actually driving the car onto the sidewalk would have had problems 100 years ago reading a book or handling daydreams.

[TPMdm]

We weren't looking for Epix of Mass Destruction in Iraq?

The way I heard it Russia invaded Georgia with the Battle cry "Gief me teh epix!"

Iran isn't really looking to produce nuclear weapons they're just levelling their crafting skillz and farming uranium....

See? Instead of fretting about RL ethics in WoW, I bring WoW gameplay mechanics to RL...... much more fun!

[Marlous]

I swear, all my chars on WoW are SO Chaotic Evil. *nodnod* Even my Human Paladin. Tough luck for him, but hey. I bet he's got some explanation for it when he's called to face his employer.

[Shellar]

Zul'Aman got me thinking about this. The Amani were already driven to the brink of extinction--persectued, you might say. they are for the most part contained in Zul'Aman and being surrounded by Scourge they are no longer a significant threat to anybody. They aren't trying to raise demons or Old Gods, the attack on Zul'Aman seems motivated purely by the need for l33t itamz.

Does the treatment of the various "savage" troll groups by the "civilized" factions amount to genocide/ethnic cleansing?
The fact that Amanishi trolls are fond of killing the members of said civilized races by torturing them to death may have something to do with it.

And it's not genocide, it's xenocide. (Unless you're a Darkspear Troll, in which case it's intertribal warfare, and thus a part of your rich cultural heritage)

[odinsnephew]

I swear, all my chars on WoW are SO Chaotic Evil. *nodnod* Even my Human Paladin. Tough luck for him, but hey. I bet he's got some explanation for it when he's called to face his employer.

Haha, Lawful evil surely? But as for Chaotic evil? Yep that sure describes some of my motley crew of reprobates ;)

[det]

Dr. Odin can see you now. Please lie back and tell me all about it :grin:

As for moral implications of killing savage Trolls? Meh ;)

Substitute "savage trolls" for "savage indians" and you are hitting uncomfortably close to home. Basically your standard conqueror mentality.

Purple epic = Aztec gold :rolleyes:

[clevins]

Substitute "savage trolls" for "savage indians" and you are hitting uncomfortably close to home. Basically your standard conqueror mentality.

Purple epic = Aztec gold :rolleyes:

But the Amani trolls respawn every 3 days...

GAME... it's a GAME...

[teacake]

But the Amani trolls respawn every 3 days...

GAME... it's a GAME...

And Nesingwary will respawn even quicker but I will not be killing him in WOTLK for ethical reasons (see closed thread in Beta forum, lol).

I've heard some refuse to kill the big turtles because they think it's cruel.

I can't really argue with any of the genocide comments--all true. Doesn't bother me too much except where you have the deep seated hatred directed at real players because they are the opposing faction. Can't hack that.

[clevins]

And Nesingwary will respawn even quicker but I will not be killing him in WOTLK for ethical reasons (see closed thread in Beta forum, lol).

I've heard some refuse to kill the big turtles because they think it's cruel.

I can't really argue with any of the genocide comments--all true. Doesn't bother me too much except where you have the deep seated hatred directed at real players because they are the opposing faction. Can't hack that.

personal choice. I was helping a level 67 friend in BEM the other night and the damn ogres kept referring to me as king since I did the ogrila starter quests. made me feel slightly bad for a sec, but... meh.

But you CAN'T be cruel to the turtles etc... they're NOT REAL. It's the same reason people who really hate the other faction or a given race need therapy... repeat after me IT'S NOT REAL.

Incidentally, the Death Knight starting area has a quest about 2/3 of the way through where you need to kill a prisoner... who turns out to be a childhood friend. They've done a good job getting you into the mindset of being a feared servant of the Lich King... and then you hit this. Even though I know it's not real the psychological impact was greater than I anticipated. IN fact, one of the bugs I filed was that you really started to question what you'd been doing and that that needed more followup in the subsequent quests.

[Erinne]

We weren't looking for Epix of Mass Destruction in Iraq?

The way I heard it Russia invaded Georgia with the Battle cry "Gief me teh epix!"

Iran isn't really looking to produce nuclear weapons they're just levelling their crafting skillz and farming uranium....

See? Instead of fretting about RL ethics in WoW, I bring WoW gameplay mechanics to RL...... much more fun!
Am I a bad person because I laughed at this?

Yup, I'm not a pyromaniac, just farming motes of fire...

[MrBCorp]

The thing to keep in mind however is that as an MMO, there is only a slight tie to reality. When I kill those 20 naga in Zoram Strand for heads, or the oodles of murlocs for spines or fins or heads or whatever the quest is, 5 minutes later they'll all magically reappear, and kill me if I haven't left the area but sit there eating/drinking/bandaging, etc.

Exactly, it's more like a simulator. It allows for easy reset (as do other games) so we can train ourselves up for the real world. Now where did I put my shotgun?

[semiiramiis]

I refused to do the quest to defile Uther's Tomb on my Horde toon because I didn't feel she would anger such a powerful and fine spirit. I also avoid Undercity and all of the UD quests because I feel they aren't what she would willingly do. LOLRP? Perhaps, <shrug> but hey. If you don't like certain quests, just skip them.

[corga]

I skip all quests that i cant kill x. seriously, whats more fun the blowing things up with balls of fire?

[teacake]

I refused to do the quest to defile Uther's Tomb on my Horde toon because I didn't feel she would anger such a powerful and fine spirit. I also avoid Undercity and all of the UD quests because I feel they aren't what she would willingly do. LOLRP? Perhaps, <shrug> but hey. If you don't like certain quests, just skip them.

See people say "it's just a game" in response to those kind of choices but to me those choices are a part of the game. I'm not on an RP server but I make a lot of RP choices for some of my toons and it adds greatly to my enjoyment of WoW.

[Trakamoocow]

I think if you beat things up in a game you're more likely to beat people up IRL. I've levelled purely by talking mobs into repenting for their sins.

[clevins]

teacake... I agree, but we're none of us nice people in WoW. You can make some choices like Semi did, but if you level to 70 or close to it you'll have killed a LOT of things in the world, most of whom weren't a threat to you. Face it, in most ways we're not heroes, we're mercenaries. "Oh Clevins, the X is a threat... go kill it for us and bring it's head to us."

[Dhoum]

From my point of view, killing aggressive mobs is morally justified because leaving them free endangers your people. For example, fishermen will probably be attacked by naga or murlocks so the community-minded thing to do is to reduce that threat to your community. Killing non-aggressive mobs is slightly more problematic unless you are hunting for meat or harvesting other items from the creatures you kill that will benefit your community.

When I start treating WoW like any other video game I know it's time to take a break. If I'm not engaging with the storyline in some way then I need to go read a book or go out to the pub or something.

[TPMdm]

See people say "it's just a game" in response to those kind of choices but to me those choices are a part of the game. I'm not on an RP server but I make a lot of RP choices for some of my toons and it adds greatly to my enjoyment of WoW.

Part of the "problem" is that there are no consequences for make such RP choices even on an RP server. Did you ever play the Knights of the Old Republic?

[Naolin]

is it wrong that I like killing blood elves even on my horde chars? >.> for some reason I can keep killing them all night long.

[semiiramiis]

is it wrong that I like killing blood elves even on my horde chars? >.> for some reason I can keep killing them all night long.


Oh, I love killing belfs, even on my Tauren shaman! The males's deaths are so overly theatrical, and it's so satisfying.

[tigermeat]

yeah for me I like killing trolls. i dont know what it is about them, they just call out to me "come take my lewtz". I dont feel overly terrible about it because they just repop and try to kill me. Its like if zombies attacked the world. They are only hungry and trying to eat you but to ensure the safety of all the non-zombies, you should just take the initiative and kill all the zombies you come across. And LOL at the Belf death movie. Its like they all minored in film before they become soldiers and are still trying to win an emmy or something.