Battleground Noob

[Mollymog]

I ventured into Warsong Gulch last evening - first BG ever and I took my lvl 38 Rogue. Fun with him stealthing and backstabbing the enemy. However, I was unlucky enough to be there with a group who apparently only spoke Swedish or were disinclined to use English. They did know enough, though, to shout 'Noob' at me and do the Chicken Cluck Thing. I left, embarrassed and awkward and resolved not to try this again unless I had a better idea of what to do.

First of all, how do you communicate with others? I couldn't figure that out and everything I've read since doesn't tell me. I had to resort to 'Say' (not that they listened anyhow). At one point I captured the Horde flag and was about to make off with it towards the Alliance headquarters but everyone shouted at me and finally one ventured enough English to say 'Drop flag!' and I still don't understand why. I thought the whole idea was to get the thing, trundle it back to your headquarters and then hold it there. No?

It was all rather baffling and I could sort of get glimpses of what fun it could be, but never felt really like I belonged or was contributing usefully. I'd like to try it again, but not before I know more basics of the whole thing and can find some English-speakers who'll be a little kinder to a noob. Most of the BG guides seem to assume that you know the mechanics of the thing automatically and those are the very things I don't know!

[jschild]

To talk to everyone type in /bg
Rogues best job in WSG is to stealth in, grab the flag, and run, going as fast as possible.
Do not restealth as that will drop the flag.
Do not fight when you have the flag unless you have a healer and backup, otherwise try to stun then run.

[Mollymog]

To talk to everyone type in /bg
Rogues best job in WSG is to stealth in, grab the flag, and run, going as fast as possible.
Do not restealth as that will drop the flag.
Do not fight when you have the flag unless you have a healer and backup, otherwise try to stun then run.

Thanks very much. This is the kind of very basic stuff I've been looking for.

[jschild]

Other real choice is defense. Stealth, when someone goes for the flag, attack and stun as much as possible, use crippling poison (I think? the one that slows movement) on one of your weapons.

[justlcy]

thank you so much. but gotta go first.type it come to read next time...

[MrBCorp]

thank you so much. but gotta go first.type it come to read next time...purple monkey dishwasher

There, I fixed it. It makes much more sense now. :smiley:

[Mollymog]

There, I fixed it. It makes much more sense now. :smiley:

Curious - you guys weren't the Swedish-speaking unfriendly ones in the BG, were you?

[Mollymog]

Other real choice is defense. Stealth, when someone goes for the flag, attack and stun as much as possible, use crippling poison (I think? the one that slows movement) on one of your weapons.

Tried again last evening, explained generally that I was new to this but wanted to get the hang of it, but all that got me was one guy saying 'Then you shouldn't be here, noob!'.

I now think that attitudes in BGs may be the unfriendliness encountered so often in this game carried to another notch. I'm disappointed - I try, when I play one of my guys, to help others, to show them how to do certain things, answer questions, to not be insulting. Oh, well........ I think I won't try again. :sad:

[jschild]

Just don't tell them you are new to it and no one will probably say anything.

[Mollymog]

Just don't tell them you are new to it and no one will probably say anything.

Hmm, maybe. When I did that, though, got told I was stupid and didn't know what I was doing. Dang.

[MrBCorp]

Curious - you guys weren't the Swedish-speaking unfriendly ones in the BG, were you?

Lol, no. Just a bit of silly fun. :grin: Nothing malicious intended. I don't do that.


Hmm, maybe. When I did that, though, got told I was stupid and didn't know what I was doing. Dang.

Well I don't think you're stupid. But you don't know what you are doing, obviously, you've admitted as much. People don't like to admit they don't know things so they attack others instead of helping. Nothing wrong with asking questions.


The only thing I can think of with regards to being told to drop the flag is that they wanted the horde to win.

[Mollymog]

Lol, no. Just a bit of silly fun. :grin: Nothing malicious intended. I don't do that.

I thought that. Couldn't resist poking a bit of fun, though.

Well I don't think you're stupid. But you don't know what you are doing, obviously, you've admitted as much. People don't like to admit they don't know things so they attack others instead of helping. Nothing wrong with asking questions.<

That's what I think, but after this I'm going to go in grouped with partner so we can sit here next to each other and try to figure out between us what the heck is going on.


The only thing I can think of with regards to being told to drop the flag is that they wanted the horde to win.

That baffled me, it really did, since I was about to take it and run like mad. All I can think is that maybe they wanted one of their own guys to do it?

[Mollymog]

Lol, no. Just a bit of silly fun. :grin: Nothing malicious intended. I don't do that.

Well I don't think you're stupid. But you don't know what you are doing, obviously, you've admitted as much. People don't like to admit they don't know things so they attack others instead of helping. Nothing wrong with asking questions.

The only thing I can think of with regards to being told to drop the flag is that they wanted the horde to win.

I know you're not unpleasant. I just thought I'd poke a bit of fun about what you and that other guy said.

I think after this I'll go in grouped with my partner so we can sit here next to each other and talk about what's happening and maybe figure some things out for ourselves.

And no, I don't know why they wanted me to drop the flag unless they'd decided I was so dim I couldn't do what was needed. I was ready to run like mad with it. Maybe they wanted one of their own guys to do it.

[Reverendi]

I got exactly the same when I first went into a BG. I'm not a huge fan of PvP myself, but figured that I should give it a shot, see what all the fuss was about, maybe get myself some honour rewards into the bargain. So the first time I set foot in there I was a clueless 70 rogue...
And didn't everyone enjoy telling me about it! Was very offputting in general, but I decided to give it a go every now and again, and to that end, read up on a few strategies. There are plenty online, especially on this forum, that should give you an idea of what to do and how you should try and do it.
Don't let negative people put you off if you enjoy it! Have fun and do your best - you can't do much more than that, really, and I'm sure we'll see you decked out in shiny purple gear one day down the line ^_^

P.S. I still do it from time to time, and I'm still not great at it! Still learning I suppose...

[Mistro]

I wouldn't worry much about insults, it happens regardless, especially if you're not a twink. Its something that comes with random groups and PvP in general. If someone is that distracted, its going to affect their game, don't let it affect yours too. Remaining calm and "in the zone" is important. I dislike PvP for those reasons, but I overlook them now.

There are ways to compete without being a twink though, by having good consumables. Flash Bomb (anti-druid forms), Magic Dust (30 second sleep), Swiftness Potion (flag carrying), Free Action Potion (flag carrying), Jungle Remedy (anti-crippling poison), Frost Protection Potion (anti-mage as most are frost), Rumsey Rum Black Label (15 stamina) or food from cooking, your choice of elixers (I like trolls blood and agility on my 29 hunter), etc.

Basically as a rogue, your strong points are disabling your opponent and getting away from/to an opponent. Gouge, Sap, Crippling Poison, Sprint, etc. are your friends and most of those consumables will strengthen your strong points. If you're an engineer, pick up a gnomish net-o-matic projector and some rocket boots. You could always try a 29 twink. So far that bracket has been my fave, in addition to my hunter I'm starting a disc priest there also.

The beta has a few interesting changes too, such as crippling poison is going up to a 70% speed reduction, the heirloom items, and those passive profession buffs. If you've got herbalism, you can look forward to a self-HoT, skinning has a crit bonus, and mining has a health bonus. You could check out Pwn Depot, its for twinks but still has some good information on BGs and PvP in general.

[Mollymog]

Thanks for the encouragement. Yes, I'll probably try it again (grouped with partner, as I said, for a friendly face to discuss what's happening) because I did sort of see that it could be fun.

I've not so far been put off anything in this game by some of the really unpleasant people I've met. I've met some good ones too. And I like to think (perhaps naively) that being fair and reasonable and helpful myself might rub off on some of 'em.

[prion]

imo you should never use elixirs in bg's because the buff disappears when you die = money wasted. maybe weak cheap elixirs to give you a little extra edge, but you can't be chugging elixirs constantly.

also i've found that you can easily waste health potions, imo they should only be used if you feel that it will make the difference in letting you finish the fight. if you're totally surrounded, no. (you can easily die, res, and rejoin the fight inside of the cooldown period)

[Mollymog]

imo you should never use elixirs in bg's because the buff disappears when you die = money wasted. maybe weak cheap elixirs to give you a little extra edge, but you can't be chugging elixirs constantly.

also i've found that you can easily waste health potions, imo they should only be used if you feel that it will make the difference in letting you finish the fight. if you're totally surrounded, no. (you can easily die, res, and rejoin the fight inside of the cooldown period)


I've done a bit more BG stuff now and find, actually, that bandages are a real help, perhaps more so than many potions and elixirs. I've levelled all my chars fairly high in First Aid and find it invaluable. If I, or some guy on my side near death, just gets to the side for a brief few moments, I can bandage and it works very well. I now go in with a few familiar other players who know I have a bunch of bandages and will make a point of asking me to use one. And really, I've not found so far that the various elixirs that enhance your points in things are that great.

[DoomTrooper]

I stared doing BG's just this week, I tried AB and WSG...AB just wasnt working for me and I spent more time in the graveyard than anything, so now i just stick to WSG. Anyway, I know my lock cant compete with the twinks, especially the rogues and so I find something that I can do that keeps me in a good spot and helps out the team. I stand flag guard, I use the imp for the partywide stamina buff, keep him on attack mode and just wait for anyone who tried to cap our flag. this way i usually only have to take on one player at a time and if the other team cant get the flag they cant win.

After the first few rounds i noticed something that the alliance seems to do that horde neglects and that is to guard the flag, for some reason every horde team i've ever played on has bolted out of the gate when the battle starts leaving our flag wide open.
round after round alliance won but after i stared taking up guard we took 4 of 5 matches

ignore the noob comments, nobody came into the BG's being perfect even though alot seem to think they did. find a niche and work at it dont try using your non twink in all greens against the twinks decked out in purple because you're going to lose 98% of the time

[Mollymog]

I stared doing BG's just this week, I tried AB and WSG...AB just wasnt working for me and I spent more time in the graveyard than anything, so now i just stick to WSG. Anyway, I know my lock cant compete with the twinks, especially the rogues and so I find something that I can do that keeps me in a good spot and helps out the team. I stand flag guard, I use the imp for the partywide stamina buff, keep him on attack mode and just wait for anyone who tried to cap our flag. this way i usually only have to take on one player at a time and if the other team cant get the flag they cant win.

After the first few rounds i noticed something that the alliance seems to do that horde neglects and that is to guard the flag, for some reason every horde team i've ever played on has bolted out of the gate when the battle starts leaving our flag wide open.
round after round alliance won but after i stared taking up guard we took 4 of 5 matches

ignore the noob comments, nobody came into the BG's being perfect even though alot seem to think they did. find a niche and work at it dont try using your non twink in all greens against the twinks decked out in purple because you're going to lose 98% of the time

I have become far more philosophical about the insults and shouts and now just play on imperviously. If it makes them feel better to behave like that, who am I to spoil it for them?

[Zachariah]

Hello Molly

I play a 70 rogue pretty exclusively pvp, BGs and Arena. WSG is my favourite battleground.

At low levels you're really going to be up against either twinks, who you have no chance against, or players like yourself who are levelling and just using whatever gear they have picked up along the way. It's a completely different game at 70, and in my opinion, much more fun.

Anyway, some WSG tips for you:

Save sprint for running across the open central area when carrying the flag. Or, for catching flag runners.

Look inside the little houses for buffs.

You might see people saying things like "efc roof". EFC=Enemy Flag Carrier (although after a few seconds you can see their location on the bg map anyway). Other acronyms used often are GY (graveyard) TUN/TUNN (the tunnel leading in to the main building) and FR (Flag Room). The other location is RAMP, the slope leading down to the central area (MID) from the graveyard. So if you are hanging around the middle of the map wondering what to do and someone says "EFC tunn!", you know to go straight to where your tunnel opens into the main area and stealth up, waiting to stun and kill the efc, immediately right-click on the flag when it drops, and receive the admiration and respect you deserve.

When you have the flag, bear in mind where all the opposing players are and who is with you. The biggest mistake new players make is to think they can solo run the flag back to base all the time. Wait for other people on your side to catch up with you and stay with them as you go back. Don't just run back through the tunnel if you see enemies coming that way, go out via their ramp or even through their graveyard (you need good timing there, as they might spawn on top of you).

At that level, you're probably not going to be the best flag runner. You can drop the flag by right-clicking on the flag 'buff' in your UI. You can then do what you do best, stun and kill anyone trying to attack the flag runner. Don't bother stealthing at this point or you'll never keep up with them.

Sap, sap, sap and sap some more. Very few people will have the pvp trinket at this level, especially the one with a 2 min CD.

PVP is harder than PVE. This isn't a matter of argument or opinion. It takes practice and more practice. Like any activity based on human skill, you can be really really really good but there's always somebody out there who is just that little bit better, so don't get discouraged if you aren't successful at first.

And have FUN!

[Mollymog]

Hello Molly

I play a 70 rogue pretty exclusively pvp, BGs and Arena. WSG is my favourite battleground.

At low levels you're really going to be up against either twinks, who you have no chance against, or players like yourself who are levelling and just using whatever gear they have picked up along the way. It's a completely different game at 70, and in my opinion, much more fun.

Anyway, some WSG tips for you:

Save sprint for running across the open central area when carrying the flag. Or, for catching flag runners.

Look inside the little houses for buffs.

You might see people saying things like "efc roof". EFC=Enemy Flag Carrier (although after a few seconds you can see their location on the bg map anyway). Other acronyms used often are GY (graveyard) TUN/TUNN (the tunnel leading in to the main building) and FR (Flag Room). The other location is RAMP, the slope leading down to the central area (MID) from the graveyard. So if you are hanging around the middle of the map wondering what to do and someone says "EFC tunn!", you know to go straight to where your tunnel opens into the main area and stealth up, waiting to stun and kill the efc, immediately right-click on the flag when it drops, and receive the admiration and respect you deserve.

When you have the flag, bear in mind where all the opposing players are and who is with you. The biggest mistake new players make is to think they can solo run the flag back to base all the time. Wait for other people on your side to catch up with you and stay with them as you go back. Don't just run back through the tunnel if you see enemies coming that way, go out via their ramp or even through their graveyard (you need good timing there, as they might spawn on top of you).

At that level, you're probably not going to be the best flag runner. You can drop the flag by right-clicking on the flag 'buff' in your UI. You can then do what you do best, stun and kill anyone trying to attack the flag runner. Don't bother stealthing at this point or you'll never keep up with them.

Sap, sap, sap and sap some more. Very few people will have the pvp trinket at this level, especially the one with a 2 min CD.

PVP is harder than PVE. This isn't a matter of argument or opinion. It takes practice and more practice. Like any activity based on human skill, you can be really really really good but there's always somebody out there who is just that little bit better, so don't get discouraged if you aren't successful at first.

And have FUN!

Thank you so very much! This is the most helpful response I've ever had to any post here. I'm working on this battleground thing - a lot of it now is starting to make more sense. I've learned a lot too about playing a Rogue there and just how valuable one can be. And I've stopped being bothered by any insultts or shouts. Nobody was born knowing everything and I'd bet they had their noobish days too.
:wink:

[KarlMalone]

Just kind of a broad-brush response to a few things I've heard here.

With regard to people telling you to drop the flag; you'll sometimes get groups who just want quick honour and marks. they'll go into a bg and lose as quickly as possible. by actually doing something in said bg, you were making the game take precious seconds longer. i can understand the logic of people who go into the bgs to lose, but i can't say i agree with that mentality. in my mind, if you go in to play a bg, you go in to win. it's called "honor" and "marks of honor" for a reason. deliberately losing is the embodiment of cowardice. just my $.02

same thing with insulting people in bgs, actually. in my experience, nothing harms a battleground team more than the 1 or 2 people who invariably start hurling insults at their own team. i've noticed this particularly in wsg and ab. not as bad in the few av matches i've been in. it drives me absolutely CRAZY when i hear people start saying "just let them win..." for the same reasons stated above. maybe it's just my own personal mindset of never giving in; i don't know. but my response to this is to try and be as encouraging as i possibly can. even if we get steamrolled, i'll tell everyone "gg, we'll get 'em next time!"

the way i see it, we were all new to bgs once.

i hear all these people QQing that Alliance never wins bgs. maybe if we'd be a little more supportive and nurturing to new bgers, we'd have a larger, stronger, more competent pool of players in any given battleground.

[Mollymog]

[QUOTE=KarlMalone;4164587]Just kind of a broad-brush response to a few things I've heard here.

Good points and thanks. I've toughened a bit. I don't let insults bother me now and just console myself with the thought that these guys are probably yammering away in Trade Channel when not in the battleground. It's getting to be really kind of fun and now I've got to know some of the regulars I feel a bit better.

But for sure I am as kind and reasonable as I can be to noobs when I meet them, remembering what a daunting experience it was at first for me. I don't see at all why so often in this game people forget that they once were new and uncertain and perhaps failed at what they were trying to do. What is it about putting other people down that seems like such a good idea? I think there's too much of it. It's a game, a recreational thing. It's not real life.

[minfear]

WSG is the worst one to start off in as a pvp newb... back many moons ago when I was in your boat I was pushed head first into a WSG and didn't look at PVP again for a year or more, then I discovered AV and haven't looked back.

AV is a mixture of PVE and PVP, so is an ideal learning curve, not to mention that there is a big crowd to follow should you be in doubt.

A good place to look for BG explanations is http://www.wowwiki.com, they have an awesome selection of infos there :)

Min.

[Mollymog]

WSG is the worst one to start off in as a pvp newb... back many moons ago when I was in your boat I was pushed head first into a WSG and didn't look at PVP again for a year or more, then I discovered AV and haven't looked back.

AV is a mixture of PVE and PVP, so is an ideal learning curve, not to mention that there is a big crowd to follow should you be in doubt.

A good place to look for BG explanations is http://www.wowwiki.com, they have an awesome selection of infos there :)

Min.

Thanks. Interesting what you say about AV. Everything I'd read said things like 'very tough and not for the beginner' or 'stick to WSG until you are proficient or you'll never make it through AV'. I'll have a look at your link and may just give AV a try. At least with a big crowd I could sort of blend in.

[odinsnephew]

I've had people from other realms make a level 1 character on my realm to advise me I'm a <insert random expletives> noob who should eff off and go play the Sims, etc etc. I have also had people make a level 1 to praise me for how I played, so it's swings and roundabouts there. If you stay in the same bracket for a while you get to know who the idiots/good guys are :)

Theres one particular druid who took a dislike to me for reasons unknown, although I think it something to do with myself capping the flag when he wanted too, and whenever he sees my rogue he leaves the battle! Weird? Most certainly ;)

Personally I find in bg's I can do an immense amount of damage in one, then the next i'm kind of a lot lower down the score. Not that that bothers me, but other people do really throw their toys out of the pram lol. I tend to play bg's later in the evening after 21:00 ish and *generally* you get a better crowd.....but not always :rolleyes:

Edit: For some reason theres always one who can seemingly fight/heal/spam chat, get nothing acieved but everyone else "sux" (ffs spell sucks correctly you muppet) apart from them. Glorious /facepalms agogo.

[Mollymog]

I've had people from other realms make a level 1 character on my realm to advise me I'm a <insert random expletives> noob who should eff off and go play the Sims, etc etc. I have also had people make a level 1 to praise me for how I played, so it's swings and roundabouts there. If you stay in the same bracket for a while you get to know who the idiots/good guys are :)

Theres one particular druid who took a dislike to me for reasons unknown, although I think it something to do with myself capping the flag when he wanted too, and whenever he sees my rogue he leaves the battle! Weird? Most certainly ;)

Personally I find in bg's I can do an immense amount of damage in one, then the next i'm kind of a lot lower down the score. Not that that bothers me, but other people do really throw their toys out of the pram lol. I tend to play bg's later in the evening after 21:00 ish and *generally* you get a better crowd.....but not always :rolleyes:

Edit: For some reason theres always one who can seemingly fight/heal/spam chat, get nothing acieved but everyone else "sux" (ffs spell sucks correctly you muppet) apart from them. Glorious /facepalms agogo.

I have grown a shell, metaphorically speaking. Why should I reward some name-caller by responding to his behaviour? Responding is a reward, which will further program him to do it again. So I go on serenely, doing it as best I can and if I get shouted at, I just remember my late grandmother, who would say 'Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me'. She was right, you know. :grin:

[Zachariah]

Just thought I'd update it for you:

'Sticks and stones may break my bones, but flames will never hurt me'

[minfear]

Thanks. Interesting what you say about AV. Everything I'd read said things like 'very tough and not for the beginner' or 'stick to WSG until you are proficient or you'll never make it through AV'. I'll have a look at your link and may just give AV a try. At least with a big crowd I could sort of blend in.

Can't say I ever read anything about WSG being easier... smaller perhaps, but not easier for the newbies. Don't forget as a rogue you can have a fair bit of fun once you get used to AV... capturing the pve objective mines can be a blast, sneak in sprinting past the exploding miner's TNT, using your rogue talents to knock off the mine bosses, great fun :) (Not to mention waiting for the lone horde shammy to turn up to recap the mine and ganking him - they always send a shammy for some reason lol)

Also as a rogue you'll find that you can really take the p*ss outta the horde if your own side are being idiots (Not that uncommon), fighting in the middle of the map going nowhere... you can go cap a tower or two, watch half the horde rush in to investigate whilst your sneaking to the other side of the map to do it again.

Anyhow... IMO AV is the ideal place to start getting used to BGs, if in doubt follow the crowd and do what they do, over time you'll learn what is good and what is bad, either way there are plenty of AV tokens and honour points to pick up along the journey.

FYI though, I play a 70 rogue with a full combat spec, or a 70 frosty mage in the BGs :)

[Mollymog]

Just thought I'd update it for you:

How very true. I was quite amused, though, when last evening my level 63 warrior was challenged to a duel in SW by a level 11 dwarf mage, who then did the chicken dance around me after I turned him down (is this guy suicidal or what?). That kind of shout is really funny.

[Mollymog]

Can't say I ever read anything about WSG being easier... smaller perhaps, but not easier for the newbies. Don't forget as a rogue you can have a fair bit of fun once you get used to AV... capturing the pve objective mines can be a blast, sneak in sprinting past the exploding miner's TNT, using your rogue talents to knock off the mine bosses, great fun :) (Not to mention waiting for the lone horde shammy to turn up to recap the mine and ganking him - they always send a shammy for some reason lol)

Also as a rogue you'll find that you can really take the p*ss outta the horde if your own side are being idiots (Not that uncommon), fighting in the middle of the map going nowhere... you can go cap a tower or two, watch half the horde rush in to investigate whilst your sneaking to the other side of the map to do it again.

Anyhow... IMO AV is the ideal place to start getting used to BGs, if in doubt follow the crowd and do what they do, over time you'll learn what is good and what is bad, either way there are plenty of AV tokens and honour points to pick up along the journey.

FYI though, I play a 70 rogue with a full combat spec, or a 70 frosty mage in the BGs :)

Thanks. I think this weekend I'll give it a try. Tell me, though, is it true in all BGs that you fare better if you're in the upper five levels of whatever group you get slotted into? It seems to me that if you're a level 40-something, you'll do better if you're a 45-49 than the lower 40 - 44.

[Zachariah]

You'll certainly be less frustrated. At the top end, you could be a lvl 61 in pre-TBC greens going up against a team of mostly lvl 70s in high-end pvp gear, and you're not going to make a dent.

It's not quite so bad in the lower brackets, but you'll still be annoyed at constantly missing opponents just because they are a few levels higher than you. I'd wait until you are 70 before hitting the BGs seriously, but don't worry about it if you just want to try it out at any level.

[Mollymog]

You'll certainly be less frustrated. At the top end, you could be a lvl 61 in pre-TBC greens going up against a team of mostly lvl 70s in high-end pvp gear, and you're not going to make a dent.

It's not quite so bad in the lower brackets, but you'll still be annoyed at constantly missing opponents just because they are a few levels higher than you. I'd wait until you are 70 before hitting the BGs seriously, but don't worry about it if you just want to try it out at any level.

I now just remind myself that I'm doing this for fun (and it is fun) and then do my best. Not much more I can do, really. I play this game purely for enjoyment. When the enjoyment goes, I'll quit. But I can't see the enjoyment going for a long, long time. Two and a bit years of playing it and I feel as if I've hardly got into it, there's so much yet to see and do.

[alanthecelt]

meh
just follow the pack in watch what they are doing, or try and follow the flag carrier around and give him soem defence, youll get used to the typical tactics given enough time, it is daunting for a first timer, a lot going on and chance of being destroyed in seconds.