Tanking, Healing, Wotlk!

[Trakamoocow]

Not sure where this fits, so i'm posting it here. Whether or not it's arrogant or just good advice I leave up to you :p.

I've always felt 5 man heroics posed more of a personal test/challenge for tanks (everyone?) than most 10/25 man content. Generally in 25 man, you're locking down 1 target, smacking it, and letting it get kilt.

In a 5 man, you're the boss, you're handling up to 5-6 mobs at once, and coordinating the lot. It's a lot to take in, and I definitely trip up occasionally.

But it's a function of the rest of your group, and having had some mixed heroic success in wotlk as of yesterday, I thought id note:

For druid healers: We're in scrub blues again. Your hots are fantastic, but with the incoming damage tanks are getting (also in scrub blues) dont be afraid to time healing touches. Yes, it's inefficient, but we're undergeared, you're going to have to be inefficient to keep your tank up. Yes nourish is nice too, but Healing Touch is your heal BOMB. And it really is the bomb. Dog. Yo. (im so street!).

This goes for shammies too... there is NO point using chain heal on the mt (the only guy taking the damage, hopefully) when your healing wave is the only thing between him and a dirt nap. DO use riptide and all that goodness, but your heal bomb is what will keep his ass alive.

I've had less trouble with priests tbh, between shields/renews/prayers of mending and their heal bomb, staying up was easy. This was probably down to the player though.

And for dps... Your tanks are going to need CC again, and they're going to need them up before the mobs get to him. Otherwise, he's now trying to single hit 2-3 mobs (potentially) whilst you finish your crowd control. Of course that mob is now bee lining for the healer.... Or he can try tanking the lot, but that = dirtnap again too. So be quick with your CC's, and whenever possible, dont let them drop before renewing them.

And for tanks (me included) do explain what you're doing thoroughly. DPS are incredibly keen to smash your mob in the face the moment you pull, so give them notice of LOS pulls, even give them a 'wait 10 seconds' (ill say 10 so they at least give me 3 or so ;), etc. Notify your healer if you expect this pull to be tricky.

p.s. do your best to time your heals to start when the mobs reach the tank, or close to. Having him loaded up with hots for an easy pull = no probs. As soon as the pull spreads out a bit/goes slightly wrong? Potentially BIG problems. A timed big heal Ive found creates much less hassles (it's another 3 seconds of threat time for me) than being loaded to the hilt with hots. Of course, it's all down to the specific pull/encounter.

And finally for tanks... dont be shy to blow cooldowns, even on trash. Barkskin/Surv Inst/Dodge trinkey, all are life savers that give your healer the leeway they need. And if you're a druid without infected wounds, /slap.

[corga]

This would probally he more effective being told to your group members before you start a heroic. I know it is great egneral knowledge, and would do well on the official forums, but most of the people here are very intellegent. Thanks for posting this, but i dont think this will help many people in the long run.

[Trakamoocow]

Averages being what they are, most people are average :p. Bell curve & all that.

I cant post on the official forums from here, and if i could, this would be 10 pages of flames by now (which im glad it isnt).

Yes, it's basic, yes, its general knowledge. But more & more healers, druids especially, are blinkered into HOT HOT HOT ohh **** the tank died omg l2 tanking. Actually, this would be far better as text that flashed onto the screen before any instance run. Ill contact bliz shall i? ;p

[drewid]

Hmm no info for Pally healers? :)

[Trakamoocow]

Don't forget your beacon of light, and holy shock isnt always evil, neither is holy light!

Better? :p

And that other skill they get at 80, that ****s pimp as.

[Maticus]

I actually found the advice for tanks near the end very helpful lol. My Warrior is level 78, he's fury atm, but I've been tanking the odd instance in my crafted blue tanking gear and not been doing too badly. And I lolled at this, so true:

DPS are incredibly keen to smash your mob in the face the moment you pull, so give them notice of LOS pulls, even give them a 'wait 10 seconds' (ill say 10 so they at least give me 3 or so ;)

I think you have to remember, many people who post here are high end players, but many more read the forums who are not, so this kind of basic advice is good, especially as we're all finding our feet with new talents and such :)

[Dalamin]

The mindset for many is still TBC where vast majority had full epics, heroics were nerfed, and cc was for wimps. Now most healers and tanks have gone shadow / fury, etc to level and are back in greens / blues, where as the mobs hit harder and full on nuke is no longer realistic. Hopefully after the third or forth corpse run and before the inevitable 'why u no heal? U r a noob!!!' they might learn...

[surodat]

I've been noticing the same thing. Ran the Old Kingdom yesterday, not too difficult an instance, with a level 75 Tank. She decided that she could chain pull the instance from start to finish - with 3-9 mobs on her at all timI've been noticing the same thing. Ran the Old Kingdom yesterday, not too difficult an instance, with a level 75 Tank. She decided that she could chain pull the instance from start to finish - with 3-9 mobs on her at all times. It took two wipes before we could calm her down. es. It took two wipes before we could calm her down.

[raymore]

I think this is good general advice. Especially about the part on giving the tank time to build up threat. I've seen so many dpsers just start blasting as soon as the tank charges. Do I wait 10 seconds like you ask? No, I don't want to get yelled at for not doing anything. I will wait at least 3. ;)

I have also noticed that nobody does cc any more. And no one ever asks the druid to root anything. We can use those inside now and they are great unless it's a spell caster. No point in rooting them. And btw, HoTs are the bomb. :P

[Super Sneaky Steve]

I think all DPS players should have to play both a tank and healer for some length of time, just so they could see how stupid they act sometimes.

[Dakiter]

This is all a response to many of the things we have seen over the last few months. CC classes not being needed as people got better and better gear and were able to handle harder mobs. In addition the folks at bliz wanted to make these newer instances different. I think that the biggest reminder for the teams that I am in is to go back to basics. Get your CC targets and keep'em locked. Healers keep the tanks up and save all excess mana for rough pulls. DPS manage your agro and stay on the correct targets. Every instances I have done have been a breeze as long as these few rules are followed.

Oh and that is coming from a healing (shaman), DPSing (shaman/hunter/mage) and CCing (hunter/mage) class. Havent got my DK or Pally high enough to tank much yet.

[clevins]

This is good advice for heroics and perhaps the level 80 instances. Before that (Old Kingdom, Drak and prior) it depends on your group. Decent players in all T4+? Screw CC, just pull, kill, repeat. I've done that a lot. In fact, it's one of the things I wasn't liking about those instances - the lack of any tactics or planning - so it's good to see it return later on.

And yes, this is a result of how easy the end of TBC was with geared players taking on nerfed instances. It will all even out as people realize that they can't act like that and as they remember the tactical principles that got us through level 70 dungeons when we were new to them.

[Trakamoocow]

Yeh, talking heroics deffo. Turned 80 on sunday, it's been interesting.

Not expecting ace omgwtf nevar wipe runs, but people just being sensible would help a little.

And you're talking fractions of seconds sometimes, if people wait that little bit longer to dps, time that heal slightly better, make SURE their CC sticks before it gets to the tank, etc.

Got 3 pieces of 80 loots so far (blue H UK staff, epix ring and badge tanky neck). All big upgrades which im sure we'll scoff at in 2 months time. 25.5k health selfbuff 33.1% dodge now. 25k armors. Doing my level best to have good gear pre our first 10 man naxx attempts this week.

Like a lot of people, i've played all roles now. And understand how frustrating it is to have dpsers pulling aggro left right & center.

Did Azjol'nerub heroic... Pulls before first boss, painful (webs, small ones leap/change aggro targets randomly sometimes). The other guys were all on vent with each other (figured this out later on) not telling me a thing, turns out the DK was tank spec as well, so im busily trying to keep aggro whilst he's (to my knowledge) dpsing the wrong target every time. "haha lol im halp tanknig". Thanks for the heads up :\.

That said, really not sure what else ill buy for badges, cept mebbe the T7 pieces if needs be. Not much available atm imo. Emblems of valour however.. *dribble* :p.

[Twoflower]

I think all DPS players should have to play both a tank and healer for some length of time, just so they could see how stupid they act sometimes.

honestly, as you can see in my sig, i play them all. and you wont believe how ridiculously over carefull tanks sometimes are just because they cannot tank several mobs at once.

if we have to CC 3 mobs of a 4 mob pull, we can just as well kite the 4th and forget about the tank.

[Trakamoocow]

aye theres such a thing as overcautious.

Yet i'll still take that over recklessly wiping a few times every instance because people can't stop meter chasing.

[clevins]

It's not just meter chasing. If I'm not dpsing, I'm just sitting there. Naturally, I want to do something. Ad sometimes... well, I get lucky/unlucky. Was doing a group quest earlier... chain critted on Mind Blast and SW:D, plus a crit tick on Mind Flay. The elite LOVED me... luckily so did the healer.

However... when I hear 'wrong target' I have two thoughts:

1) every tank has some kind of way to keep threat on several mobs. I expect them to use it. Blizz has taken threat off the table if we're talking equally geared and skilled players... there's little reason for a tank to lose threat once he's gotten a lead.

2) If you want me to dps mobs in an order, MARK! If you mark past Skull and X, tell me what the kill order is (assuming the marks are for kill 3rd, etc). And for god's sake if you reverse the meaning of skull and X, tell people.

[Clavina]

It's not just meter chasing. If I'm not dpsing, I'm just sitting there. Naturally, I want to do something. Ad sometimes... well, I get lucky/unlucky. Was doing a group quest earlier... chain critted on Mind Blast and SW:D, plus a crit tick on Mind Flay. The elite LOVED me... luckily so did the healer.

However... when I hear 'wrong target' I have two thoughts:

1) every tank has some kind of way to keep threat on several mobs. I expect them to use it. Blizz has taken threat off the table if we're talking equally geared and skilled players... there's little reason for a tank to lose threat once he's gotten a lead.

2) If you want me to dps mobs in an order, MARK! If you mark past Skull and X, tell me what the kill order is (assuming the marks are for kill 3rd, etc). And for god's sake if you reverse the meaning of skull and X, tell people.

Yes every tank has a way to keep *some* threat on multiple mobs. If 2 dps go all out on 2 different targets it can still be tough to keep aggro on both. Look at omen, and dps intelligently.

[Dhoum]

Unfortunately, a great many tanks (or so it seems) have lost any ability to fulfil their role beyond relentlessly smacking away at one mob. The good ones are few and far between, because in the latter days of BC you simply didn't need any skill at all to run instances in any capacity, and everyone has got into some bad habits.

So the OP is quite correct. Healers need to keep an eye on the rate at which the tank is taking damage and manage the spells they use accordingly. DPS need to follow kill order and give the tank a couple of seconds to do what they do to gain aggro. Tanks need to mark mobs sensibly, be clear about the kill order and follow it.

One day we'l be able to ignore playing skillfully and go back to the happy days of just windmilling every encounter, but for now I'm afraid that everyone has to suck it up and play their class properly.

[dwarfenhelm]

good point dhoum. ive run a few heroics with ok tanks. and they are now showing up the fact that gear and not skill got tham chain pulling tbc heroics. but the other night running with one of the top guilds mt it was a breeze. hes dressed in crafted and heroic dungeon epics and we chain pulled with no probs at all, other than me landing the odd 13k execute mid fight and pulling agro in the blink of an axe :)
we are now finding out again who can actualy tank and who calls themself a tank

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Speaking of tanks, does anyone know the new defence rating cap? I'm at 505 already in greens and a few blue quest rewards.

[Superspam]

Speaking of tanks, does anyone know the new defence rating cap? I'm at 505 already in greens and a few blue quest rewards.

540

/10 chars

[swaldman]

2) If you want me to dps mobs in an order, MARK! If you mark past Skull and X, tell me what the kill order is (assuming the marks are for kill 3rd, etc). And for god's sake if you reverse the meaning of skull and X, tell people.

This is a conversation I've had with sooooo many rogues in the past (it is usually rogues for some reason - though not always).
What did you used to do, before marks were in the game? You simply attacked the same target as the tank. It's not hard...