What kind of cow manure is this?

[Lycerian]

Ok, so I'm pretty new to the game. I'm only level 29, but that's the highest level allowed in the battleground I play in. There shouldn't be anyone in there with enough power to instantly kill me, but it happens all the time. Boom... one hit... I'm dead.

How is it possible for someone of my equal level or lower to kill me in one hit?

[Imraath]

Their gear > your gear

[MrBCorp]

and some good, expensive enchants

[clevins]

Really good, expensive enchants.

It's called twinking. A person with a high level character can afford to blow hundreds of gold on gear and enchants. There are pieces of gear that are very good for a given level - toss on the best enchants that you can and they'll be FAR better than you or even than you CAN be. That's not a comment on you, it's just that you have no way to match their gear, and they're damage is greater than the average health of people in the BGs.

[jschild]

It's the main reason few people (other than twinks) enjoy doing BG's and such until they hit the last 10 levels in the game.

[raymore]

Yup, early bgs suck. There are too many twinks running around that just love one shotting you. You don't really stand a chance. Your only hope is sticking next to a twink on your side. Just inspect their gear and that will tell you.

[Lycerian]

Aren't there level restrictions on equipment? I go to the auction house and see stuff that I can afford to buy, but I can't equip it because my level isn't high enough. How are other people getting around this?

[surodat]

People aren't getting around it. When you go on the auction house, you might see a blue item, or perhaps and purple item for your level at an astronomical price. They are relatively rare and are snapped up pretty quickly. They also pay (or arrange) for runs through instances farming for particular drops. Generally a good twink requires a lot of effort and gold to create. Also, pre-BC enchants have no level requirement, so they will buy the best pre-BC enchants for their characters, which, at low levels, provide a substantial stat boost.

[Lycerian]

Well, I guess I'm not going to play any more pvp. Takes all the fun out of it when there's a gross mismatch. I mean, would you be interested in a boxing match between Mike Tyson and Bill Cosby? Of course not. It's ridiculous.

[Imraath]

Why do I get the feeling that this thread was just another anti-twink troll?

[Superspam]

Well, I guess I'm not going to play any more pvp. Takes all the fun out of it when there's a gross mismatch. I mean, would you be interested in a boxing match between Mike Tyson and Bill Cosby? Of course not. It's ridiculous.

Actually I would be interested in said box match solely because of the ridiculousness.

Mr. Cosby, how are you preparing for your upcoming match agains Iron Mike?
Well, you see, I'm not, not too worried, ever since I was able to come back from the dead in my blockbuster smash hit Ghost Dad, I've felt that I could do any thing. I've just been working out and living on a precise diet of Jell-O and Pudding Pops
And Mr. Tyson how are you preparing?
Well acctually, I've just been thinking about how bad I'm going to feel making orphans of his children
Um, you do know they have a mother, Champ?
Yes, but I would imagine that she would die of grief.





. . .shamelessly pilfered from The Simpsons

[elsegundo]

Its the very hard to kill type of cow manure.

just play more bg's and get the twink gear yourself.... or move on. their lives might be at 29. but you have bigger and better things to do than just sit in a bracket all your wow days.

[Twoflower]

Lycerian, i deleted your last post. Please dont post posts full of personal atacks. Also, the word filter is there for a reason. Dont bypass it.

[Findariel]

Yes it's maily due to:

1. Enchantments and leg armour.
I think this is actually the part that makes twinks really strong, a twink without enchantments would still be mediocre, relatively. They add lots of health and damage.
2. Expensive and blue/purple gear
Usually from instances where twinks get boosted. Especailly at lvl29 there's some gear that's lvl35+ so can have some really overpowered burning crusade enchantments on it.

Still, one shotted at the lvl20-29s seems quite exceptional for a lvl29. An average lvl29 character would have like 600+ health and I don't think any rogue could do so much damage with 1 Backstab/Ambush?

Anyway, a couple of people could still take on a twink just like say 2 lvl23s could still take on a lvl29 monster. Next to that, teamwork also determines the outcome of a BG, number of kills doesn't. I've been in a lot of BGs where the team with only a few or none twinks still beats a heavily "twinked" team.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

IIRC bliz is giving exp in battlegrounds to do away with twinkage. I haven't done a BG since the expantion but I'll dive back in at 79.

[rgirty]

IIRC bliz is giving exp in battlegrounds to do away with twinkage. I haven't done a BG since the expantion but I'll dive back in at 79.

I have heard this was coming for years, did it really happen?

[Findariel]

I have heard this was coming for years, did it really happen?
It didn't.
I play the 20-29s a few times a week, no xp.

[rgirty]

It didn't.
I play the 20-29s a few times a week, no xp.

Thats what I thought.

I doubt this portion of subscribers will ever be alienated.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

I like the idea not because I hate twinkers, I just hate PVE and I'd like to level doing what I like to do instead of the chore of silly quests.

[rgirty]

I like the idea not because I hate twinkers, I just hate PVE and I'd like to level doing what I like to do instead of the chore of silly quests.

You would like to see pvp leveling then?

[Super Sneaky Steve]

You would like to see pvp leveling then?

Yes I would. The more ways you can play the game the better.

I also think there should be more ways to get money in BG's. I know there's a lot of quests you can do in the expantion, but that requires you to go to different locations and you can't always expect other actual players to be there.

Winning a BG should give you like 5g and losing only 2g. Maybe extra gold for capping things.

[jschild]

You shouldn't get any gold if you lost. You lost. Exp I get, but that should be the only thing (in addition to honor and 1x mark) you get when you lose.

Have you tried some of the quests in WotLK, alot more variety and Wraithgate simply rocks.

[rgirty]

SsS that is a very interesting take on the game. I have never actually heard it in that fashion.

While I have competed in thousands of bg's it isn't something I will be doing in the future if I can prevent it.

Don't get me wrong I dont' like repetitive questing either, as it is quite boring.

[Shellar]

*rubs chin thoughtfully*

If I had to implement PvP levelling, I'd do it like this:

Instead of 'Join Battleground', battlemaster/BG portals would have two options: 'Join as Recruit' and 'Join as Mercenary' (with the corresponding group options).

Recruits would receive honor for killing players and achieving BG objectives, and marks for winning/drawing/losing.
Mercenaries would receive experience for kills and objectives, and gold for winning/drawing/losing.

I am undecided, however, whether it would be better to let Recruits and Mercenaries share the same battlegrounds, or to separate them. Both solutions have their merits and flaws.

[jschild]

Very good idea Shellar.... That is certainly one of the most interesting ideas I have ever heard for PvP.

[odinsnephew]

Indeed. After leveling 4 characters through Outlands and parts of Northrend in the last month I have stalled a bit and hit the battlegrounds on a couple of them as I cannot seem to drag myself through new content atm. My choice I know but it would be nice to do a bit of "leveling" in the bg's for a change of pace.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

*rubs chin thoughtfully*

If I had to implement PvP levelling, I'd do it like this:

Instead of 'Join Battleground', battlemaster/BG portals would have two options: 'Join as Recruit' and 'Join as Mercenary' (with the corresponding group options).

Recruits would receive honor for killing players and achieving BG objectives, and marks for winning/drawing/losing.
Mercenaries would receive experience for kills and objectives, and gold for winning/drawing/losing.

I am undecided, however, whether it would be better to let Recruits and Mercenaries share the same battlegrounds, or to separate them. Both solutions have their merits and flaws.

That's not a bad idea. It would make both the twink and anti twink people happy. I assume the Mercenary section would be dominated by twinks, but if they implement this kind of thing would there be enough people to fill ques for each? Bliz may have to try it out on the test relm to see how the numbers worked out.

Keeping them seperate would be ideal.

[Aerath]

I am undecided, however, whether it would be better to let Recruits and Mercenaries share the same battlegrounds, or to separate them. Both solutions have their merits and flaws.

I think that, especially in the lower brackets, you'd have to share them. Judging from personal experience, there simply won't be enough people competing to run full BGs otherwise. Unfortunately, this does counteract the 'avoid the twink'-idea a bit. Of course, it's not entirely clear if a 'twinkless'-bg would draw in more players. People who are leveling don't tend to stay around to find more than the odd bg.

[odinsnephew]

I think that, especially in the lower brackets, you'd have to share them. Judging from personal experience, there simply won't be enough people competing to run full BGs otherwise. Unfortunately, this does counteract the 'avoid the twink'-idea a bit. Of course, it's not entirely clear if a 'twinkless'-bg would draw in more players. People who are leveling don't tend to stay around to find more than the odd bg.

Agree. Although I do think the lower level bg's would start to fill up if the twinks were "removed". It may take a couple of weeks or so for people to get the message, but I think people would once again bother to play them. At this moment in time it is widely known to avoid until at least 59+. Which is a shame.

Dn't get me wrong, there should be an avenue for the twinks of all levels to carry on fighting but when I see a load of +0-> 5 in the battlegrounds it does annoy me when im at full level in that range.

Bah, we all know it should be looked at.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

People who are leveling don't tend to stay around to find more than the odd bg.

See, that's just it. People think, I can level OR I can BG a little. If you could level while you BG then there's one less reason to leave the BG.

[Aerath]

See, that's just it. People think, I can level OR I can BG a little. If you could level while you BG then there's one less reason to leave the BG.

You can. I've leveled more than one toon through PvP dailies (or, earlier, handing in Marks for XP). It'll take time, sure, but it's still a couple BGs/day.

[HiceRION]

Going back to the earlier discussion of twinks. If twinks truly bother you in pvp I would suggest playing a rogue. Rogues have many tools at lower levels that other classes do not that while you may not be able to kill the twink, you could take him/her out of the fray long enough for a twink on your side to finish it.

Sap/Gouge/Blind/Cheap Shot/Evasion/Vanish can all keep a twink at bay for a decent amount of time if you know what you're doing.

Another fact to throw out there is while there is a decent amount of twinks who play the game quite well and just make these twinks out of boredom, I find there's a far higher number of people who make twinks because they cannot compete at the high levels do to lack of playing ability. So if you know the class you're playing and what it can do, you can sometimes be victorious over the twinks even with poor equipment.

[Wintrow]

I have a shammy at around L20. When he was L19 I hung around for a bit doing WSG for fun. I did notice the twinks but they were far from unkillable. It just makes you step up your game a bit and get some teamwork done. Also fun that Earthbind Totem doesn't care if you've got +90% dodge :tongue:.

[Findariel]

Going back to the earlier discussion of twinks. If twinks truly bother you in pvp I would suggest playing a rogue. Rogues have many tools at lower levels that other classes do not that while you may not be able to kill the twink, you could take him/her out of the fray long enough for a twink on your side to finish it.
Well in the 29s there's a lot more options, what that's concerned the 19s are far more limited.

- Hunters arguably are the strongest 1-on-1 class in the 29s. Especially now the Disengage skill (which now makes them jump backward) makes them a lot better against rogues;
- Paladins also got a huge boost, they're becoming more and more popular in the 29s;
- Warlocks are vulnerable and die relatively easily, but their DoTs always get them loads of kills and damage, often topping the score sheets even if they're no match for hunters and many other twinks in a 1-on-1 fight.

Priests, mages, shamans and so on also can be strong, perhaps not always in a 1-on-1 but as flagrunners, healers, defenders and so on they can be very useful for a team.