Virginity Pledges proved useless once again

[jschild]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/12/30/virginity.pledges/

I wonder how many studies will have to be done before we get rid of this Abstanance only BS that pervades so much of the US. Every single professional study shows it does nothing and several (like this most recent one) actually shows that they hurt, by decreasing their knowledge and chances of using protection.

Just shows that nothing beats truthiness and stupidity.

[TPMdm]

I'd like some Abstinence preferred education. Give the kids everything they need to know including the failure rate on other forms of birth control. I hate this current form of either "Sex is bad don't do it evah!" OR "Don't have sex *wink*wink* but if you do have sex use a condom so you can be safe".

I'd rather see something like "Although physically able to have sex you young people aren't emotionally ready or mature enough to have sex. If you do here are the risks xxxxx. You can reduce some of those risks by yyyyy. But nothing is perfect and they work about zzzzzz% of the time."

[surodat]

Sex education should be just that: education about sex.

Teach kids the mechanics, the history, the differences in cultural significance, the way it's used as a tool in advertisement and propaganda. Teach them about how to protect themselves during sex, about different forms of sexual interactions and about different sexual identities. School is supposed to be about providing information, not withholding it.

Leave everything else up to the parents. The average age that individuals lose their virginity in the US (oops, where'd it go?) is 17.

Pragmatically, by this time in their life, they should know everything they need to about how to protect themselves.

[jschild]

TPMdm, actually most comprehensive sex ed does exactly what you say. Unfort, it usually gets railroaded because someone has the audacity to tell kids that when they have sex they need to use a condom. That somehow = have all the sex you want. It's also funny and sad both that the states with the highest rate of teen pregnancy are the reddest states and lack comprehensive sex ed.

[Jurija]

I'd rather see something like "Although physically able to have sex you young people aren't emotionally ready or mature enough to have sex. If you do here are the risks xxxxx. You can reduce some of those risks by yyyyy. But nothing is perfect and they work about zzzzzz% of the time."

Emotionally ready? oh, please...
In the words of an organization here at home; "Make your own choice, say NO!"

With all the focus on not having sex, how come you have the highest (shared with the UK) percentage of teen pregnancy?
Why are you so utterly obsessed with teens not having sex?
what are these risks you talk of?

Sure enough, they can get pregnant, but its not like your obsession abstinence has helped that in any way.

[TPMdm]

Emotionally ready? oh, please...

I feel sorry for people who consider sex purely recreational. You deny all emotional attachments to your sex partners? Sex is more than just insert A into B while using C.


In the words of an organization here at home; "Make your own choice, say NO!"

With all the focus on not having sex, how come you have the highest (shared with the UK) percentage of teen pregnancy?

Kids spend maybe 5-6 hours getting "instruction" in government schools with at most 45 minutes of that being sex education usually for only on semester of one school year. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find a single hip-hop album with 75 minutes of music preaching sex-drugs-partying that gets listened to by those same teens repeatedly over the course of an afternoon day after day after day..... You tell me where all the focus on not having sex is?


Why are you so utterly obsessed with teens not having sex?
what are these risks you talk of?[

Sure enough, they can get pregnant, but its not like your obsession abstinence has helped that in any way.

I don't have a personal obsession with abstinence. I think adults should have all the responsible sex they feel they can handle. I'm upset with teens listening to mixed signals from the adults in their lives. As for risks.... are you serious? About 1 in 6 Americans has herpes. That number almost can't go down since herpes isn't curable and herpes is the least of their worries.

[Telic]

I'd make just about any kind of pledge to get laid.

[Jurija]

I feel sorry for people who consider sex purely recreational. You deny all emotional attachments to your sex partners? Sex is more than just insert A into B while using C.

Of course there is emotion involved, but not always.
Do you have sex with your wife only because you love her? or does it happen that you just wanna get some?
Anyways, Being emotionally ready does not always have to be about age, or being married. After a certain period of dating, things will go further than just making out. some might deny their lust, others do not.

Kids spend maybe 5-6 hours getting "instruction" in government schools with at most 45 minutes of that being sex education usually for only on semester of one school year. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find a single hip-hop album with 75 minutes of music preaching sex-drugs-partying that gets listened to by those same teens repeatedly over the course of an afternoon day after day after day..... You tell me where all the focus on not having sex is?

ok, you got me there. It's just the impression i got of you all:)


I don't have a personal obsession with abstinence. I think adults should have all the responsible sex they feel they can handle. I'm upset with teens listening to mixed signals from the adults in their lives. As for risks.... are you serious? About 1 in 6 Americans has herpes. That number almost can't go down since herpes isn't curable and herpes is the least of their worries.

Even more reason to focus on safe sex, using condoms. hell, in my country you get free condoms on "health stations" (don't know the correct translation, sorry), and from the age of 16 girls can get free p-pills.

[mrzerath]

I agree with you on most things you are saying here
One thing that i hated in middle school and some of highschool when they taught sex education and what not, is that all they did was tell the BAD parts of sex.. i mean yes there is bad parts of sex, but there are also good parts of sex. (not being perverted it anyway) Yes i think if you are a teen you should use condoms, cause a baby in highschool can ruin your life


And talking about how sex is always Emotional
that is a lie. i mean sex can be emotional, as in you love your wife/gf and what not
but there are many many times where i have just wanted to have sex, with no emotional attachments or anything.

[surodat]

The role of the school is to give information. The role of the parents is to teach the child how to interpret that information (should the parents so choose).

This is why the emotional vs. unemotional sex discussion has no place in sex-ed.

If you're going to have any ideology concerning sex practices, you'll get it from your media streams, your family, or you peer groups. Providing the mechanics of sex in an impartial way only creates the perspecitive of sex being simply mechanical if taken in a vaccuum.

If parents wish their children to take a particular ideological position towards sex, they have to be active about it - otherwise the children will pick up their ideology from the mainstream and peer groups.

And ideologies that can only operate in the absence of facts can eat me.
(By that I mean ideologies who feel that more informed children are less likely to subscribe to their ideology.)

[mesonm]

Why are you so utterly obsessed with teens not having sex?

Why do you think it is an obsession?

I categorize it as a concern, rather than an obsession. I want my kids (my teenagers) to have an unburdened early life, and not having an infant they have to care fore makes those tough years go by better.


what are these risks you talk of?

Risks are all over the map...Do you truly think that teen sex is risk free?


Sure enough, they can get pregnant, but its not like your obsession abstinence has helped that in any way.

Isn't pregnancy a risk? Are you advocating people don't educate on abstinence (among the other possibilities also)?

I sense that you are male, and do not have a female child. Do you advocate that a female child of yours have sex at age 15? 13? Unprotected?

Just curious.

[Superspam]

Do you advocate that a female child of yours have sex at age 15? 13? Unprotected?

Other than the 9 months of actual pregnancy, what does the gender of the child have to do with anything?




As an aside: Despite the fact that it's extremely sexist, I'll definitely be the father cleaning a gun at the kitchen table every time my daughter brings a boy home, where I wouldn't do the same to my son.

[surodat]

Fathers of daughters :D

I don't know if it's sexist, it seems to be more of a ingrained protective instinct that fathers have. It's not really rational, but it sort of is. You know what I mean?

[rgirty]

People are going to do what they are going to do, teenagers and children included.

We haven't had a psychologist, doctor or anyone else really be able to explain why people do the things they do.

If we knew, we could end the murdering etc in the world.

IMO

Teens have sex because they like it, some teens are more responsible than others and realize the consequence therefore they don't become active or use protection 100% of the time.

I know a lot of married couples with a teenage kid and a newborn, because the married couple got caught up in the same thing that teens get caught up in. Unprotected sex.

I doubt any of the teens that are active or become fathers/mothers lack the knowledge of how children are born, they simply lack the restraint.

It happens in all walks of life, from all parts of culture. Parents have been fighting against it for as long as man can remember. From chastity belts to today's movement of "sex education" parents are still fighting it.

I personally believe that the education for transmitted diseases and protection should be the emphasis because if protection happens, less issues will occur. I don't believe teenage activity can be stopped.

[xPCGAMERx]

I personally believe that the education for transmitted diseases and protection should be the emphasis because if protection happens, less issues will occur. I don't believe teenage activity can be stopped.

That's the key right there, STDs and protection. Explain the risks and show pictures of what you can get... there is NO easy way to prevent teens from going and and doing it, might as well protect them from the bad ****

[Embaralhar]

Teaching teens about sex in a class environment dedicated to it is, in my point of view, highly counterproductive since most of them won't take it seriously; most will be laughing all the way through class, or at least that's what happends here in southern Europe.

I think aproaching sex through some of the other subjects that are valuable to their final grade would be much more efficient.
This is what we are aiming for here in our country and though the progress is slow the changes (the number of teen pregnancies) are visible and clear.

Biology and Chemistry are the main keys if you want to get your point across.

Explain how the human body works: the female and male reproductive systems , the endocrine system and its effects on our behaviour and desires, pregnancy, sexual transmitted diseases and birth control.

One way to really capture the students attention is to show them a lot of images of the effects of sexual transmitted diseases. Shocking images of gonorrhea, syphilis, viral hepatitis, herpes and whatnot really makes teens think about birth control and protection.

Don't tell a teen he isn't prepared for sex, just don't, that's the worse thing you can do as a parent or teacher since it pushes you further away from him more than you may think. Their bodies tell them they are ready, Science says they are ready and if they find out that they aren't emotionally ready (whatever that is) then that is something they should learn on their own, not by law, code or moral. Anyway telling a teen that he isn't prepared to "..." its the quickest way for him/her to at least try doing it.

Don't use unecessary authority, teens aren't dumb they are growing up and their hormones are boiling underneath their skin just waiting for the moment of explosion, sudden burst of anger as well as mood swings are more than common and if you happend to "galvanize" your teen he/she might just do whatever you told him not to do simply because of that, that's "hormone logic" and young adult defiance at its prime.
Use reason and build trust, respect them as free thinking individuals to start undertaking their own life experience. Explaining the "why's" is crucial
and, like I said above, Biology is your friend.

Condoms are the most successful birth control method as well as the most efective method against sexual transmited diseases. Therefore they should be distrubuted freely to teens and young adults in High schools and Universities.
If parents wish their children to take a particular ideological position towards sex, they have to be active about it - otherwise the children will pick up their ideology from the mainstream and peer groups.

And ideologies that can only operate in the absence of facts can eat me.
(By that I mean ideologies who feel that more informed children are less likely to subscribe to their ideology.)

My thoughts exactly. School should only be concern with teaching Scientific and Historic concensus, not values.
True values begin at the child's home with the family.
Having parents that stimulate critical thinking and analisis helps a LOT;
prepare your child to filter the information based on crtical thinking and empirical fact is key.

[Trakamoocow]

Some families fall far short of that goal; You can't assume every child comes from a model household where good values are taught and they have a fantastic upbringing from that angle.

I'd say at least a bit of a counterpoint should come from your schooling, incase your parents are bat**** crazy :p.

[jschild]

I come from small town America. Benton, Ky, population about 5 thousand.

My superintendent glued all the pages of the biology books that mentioned evolution together.

My Advanced Biology teacher never talked about evolution. He did however bring in Creationist who spouted BS strawmen and outright lied to the class. Wanna know how fun it is arguing with a man like that in school and being asked afterward why you hate and don't believe in God. MMMMMm....Good times.

A Gf of my best friend actually believed the Earth was literally about 5,000 years old.

Things being taught in science classes should be based on science. It has been repeatedly proven that Abstanence only education not only is not good as comprehensive sex-ed, but actually more dangerous to teach (most studies show risk of unprotected sex greater in Abstanence only classes).

And without schools teaching some things, some people, because of what they are taught at home will never even realize until much later on in life how much they have been taught is bunk (Note, this is not saying religion is bunk, just that the bible does not say the Earth is 5 thousand years old).