Classic Game Clean-Up?

[Warpsters]

Howdy,

Now that Nax has moved, are there plans to clean up the old quest areas? Do these areas even have any reason for being there? They still have the same quest text. Some of those quests must have dead ends at this point. It would be great to see a patch to clean up those areas. The story should have those people moving on.

I can't see why they wouldn't want to add some new life to the classic game?

Happy Hunting!
Erin

[elsegundo]

well.. the story kinda did move on.. but you have to go to northrend. those who are leveling up to 50.. well are living their characters as if the story is still in the 50s, for example. its there for those who are not in norhtrend or outland yet. but i know what you mean.

and please remove your "signature". there's a reason why its disabled.

[semiiramiis]

Howdy,

Now that Nax has moved, are there plans to clean up the old quest areas? Do these areas even have any reason for being there? They still have the same quest text. Some of those quests must have dead ends at this point. It would be great to see a patch to clean up those areas. The story should have those people moving on.

I can't see why they wouldn't want to add some new life to the classic game?

Happy Hunting!
Erin

Not entirely certain what you mean with this. Do you mean fixing the fact that Tirion Fordring is now in several places at once? That Garrosh/Saurfang et al are also in multiple places? You mention areas, which areas did you mean?

[prion]

i would guess no.

they didn't fix the missing diplomat quest line.

Areas of the game that people simply cannot experience until they reach the point that it's no longer meaningful (and ironically it's called an 'achievement'):
-Zul'Gurub
-AQ 20 and 40
-molten core
-blackwing lair
-onyxia
-Magtheridon
-gruul
-Illidan
-Kael
-Kael again

Instead of fixing the quest lines for the warlock and paladin epic mounts and making them cool, they just cheaped out and made them trainable.

Can anyone honestly recommend this game for a new player? (unless you're being selfish and trying to get your friends to play hehe) They'll sign on only to be told that old content is irrelevant and they need to rush to 70 as fast as possible in order to truly participate. For a person with RL responsibilities that's a 4 month undertaking, if not longer! $130 down the hole before they can even participate in "the real game."

alright it's been a good month since i've been on that :soapbox: i'm done for a while now

[Xandro]

i would guess no.

they didn't fix the missing diplomat quest line.

Areas of the game that people simply cannot experience until they reach the point that it's no longer meaningful (and ironically it's called an 'achievement'):
-Zul'Gurub
-AQ 20 and 40
-molten core
-blackwing lair
-onyxia
-Magtheridon
-gruul
-Illidan
-Kael
-Kael again

Instead of fixing the quest lines for the warlock and paladin epic mounts and making them cool, they just cheaped out and made them trainable.

Can anyone honestly recommend this game for a new player? (unless you're being selfish and trying to get your friends to play hehe) They'll sign on only to be told that old content is irrelevant and they need to rush to 70 as fast as possible in order to truly participate. For a person with RL responsibilities that's a 4 month undertaking, if not longer! $130 down the hole before they can even participate in "the real game."

alright it's been a good month since i've been on that :soapbox: i'm done for a while now

Maybe I don't really count because I'm not new, but 4 months sounds a little much. I got my hunter just recently to 65, and that took just under 3 weeks real-time, and I hold a job, have hobbies, and find time for friends/family. Is my class a part of it? Sure, but it shows it can be done. XP reduction/gain is ridiculous now, even the busiest among us can gain at the least 2 levels a night.

I don't find it troubling that the "old world" isn't worth getting groups for now. Why on earth would you gather up a 25-40 man raid at 60 when you can do the first 10 quests in Outland and blow that raid gear out of the water? Why bother doing instances when gear will get replaced just as quickly in the next 2 zones, even in the old world?

[prion]

it's not about the stupid itamz. I want to see the content.

Why bother doing instances when gear will get replaced just as quickly in the next 2 zones, even in the old world?

You're actually helping to make my point. Rush to max level as fast as possible. Story? Content? I need to finish my blizz sorc so I can do my mf runs and get l33t it4mz!

Maybe I don't really count because I'm not new, but 4 months sounds a little much. I got my hunter just recently to 65, and that took just under 3 weeks real-time,
It probably doesn't count. You aren't having to learn the whole game. I based the time estimate on my own experience. And I was unemployed during that time and playing far too much--6-8 hours daily.

[Twoflower]

Can anyone honestly recommend this game for a new player? They'll sign on only to be told that old content is irrelevant and they need to rush to 70 as fast as possible in order to truly participate. For a person with RL responsibilities that's a 4 month undertaking, if not longer! $130 down the hole before they can even participate in "the real game."

that is up to you. You can play like that if you want to.

You can also take your time, enjoy the areas, enjoy the funny quests. You can even skip boring or tedious ones since you dont need to finish every quest in every area to reach max level any more. I know people who have played since release and dont have a char at 70 yet...

I wouldnt want to play like this, but everyone can have it as he wants...

[Eido]

I know people who have played since release and dont have a char at 70 yet...

That would be me then - I have played since WoW went gold and my highest toon is 64.

I really dont see the point of this rush to get to 70 or 80 or any level. Whats the point?

At the end of the day, at 80 you are doing the same as you were at 20 - hitting stuff and getting loot. The only difference is the size of the numbers involved.

I think some people lose sight of the fact that WoW is a game. There is no salary advancement when you ding another level. Your career prospects dont improve with every blue or purple you acquire. And the fact that you soloed Nax will not improve your chances of having your mortgage application accepted.

I left WoW about a year ago to deal with RL things and came back just before Christmas. I am having fun re-living 'the good old days' and have started again with a new toon. On Sundays me and a bunch of RL friends get together online and enjoy running VC and the nub instances.

So you keep you level 80 noses out of the 'classic' zone and confine yourselves to Northrend.

:p

[ptarn]

I agree with the OP that it would be fruitful for Blizzard to at least try and clean up the old world quests that lead nowhere anymore or maybe use some that fancy 'instancing' technology to make Naxx somehow available to low-level players or something? I mean, that instance-solution is a very good way to go about things, so Blizzard... USE IT!

I for one would really welcome the fact of getting some more incentive to go back to the old world besides doing the achievement (which I do enjoy, by the way).

[elsegundo]

well there's really no reason for bliz to do any of that to the old world. i mean we have new stuff to explore already, so let the lowbies or new players explore the plaguelands, ungoro, or silithus, at least that way, they can be part of the story (lest they come to silithus with no bugs to kill since millions of us has cleared it and have moved on, so the zone must progress as we progress right? no it shouldnt). i mean i understand the process. maybe the OP would like something like IQD where things happened in phases, and the change affected the realm as a whole. sure. this works. but not everywhere.


anyway, im happily killing things in northrend and dont really give a lick about old naxx.

[semiiramiis]

I agree with the OP that it would be fruitful for Blizzard to at least try and clean up the old world quests that lead nowhere anymore or maybe use some that fancy 'instancing' technology to make Naxx somehow available to low-level players or something? I mean, that instance-solution is a very good way to go about things, so Blizzard... USE IT!

I for one would really welcome the fact of getting some more incentive to go back to the old world besides doing the achievement (which I do enjoy, by the way).


Phasing is pretty programing intensive from what I can figure out. And Naxx...for low levels? So, rewrite it a third time? Naxxramas, the Dread Citadel, is supposed to be the great Kel'Thuzad's home. It shouldn't be easy, and the level 60 version was most certainly not easy. (A little stupid to have pitchfork wielding, overall wearing death knights, but hey.) Nothing funnier than to watch 15 level 70's in t6 realize that no.... they really couldn't pull off Gluth. In the current storyline, Naxxramas has moved to support the Lich King in Northrend. That is why it is no longer in EPL, the necropolis in EPL now is Acherus (currently under new management) If it comes down to a massive rewrite of Classic Wow, which incorporating phasing, and all those other cool stuff would require, or new content, players are going to choose new content.

[SithDrummer]

i would guess no.

they didn't fix the missing diplomat quest line.

Areas of the game that people simply cannot experience until they reach the point that it's no longer meaningful (and ironically it's called an 'achievement'):
-Zul'Gurub
-AQ 20 and 40
-molten core
-blackwing lair
-onyxia
-Magtheridon
-gruul
-Illidan
-Kael
-Kael again

Instead of fixing the quest lines for the warlock and paladin epic mounts and making them cool, they just cheaped out and made them trainable.

Can anyone honestly recommend this game for a new player? (unless you're being selfish and trying to get your friends to play hehe) They'll sign on only to be told that old content is irrelevant and they need to rush to 70 as fast as possible in order to truly participate. For a person with RL responsibilities that's a 4 month undertaking, if not longer! $130 down the hole before they can even participate in "the real game."

alright it's been a good month since i've been on that :soapbox: i'm done for a while now
pretty much this for me, I'm not interested in getting Wrath & there's very little point to keep playing without it

[elsegundo]

sorry but i've only been playing for around 15 months... and none of the old stale content was old and stale to me at the time i started playing. i started out as alliance and went to horde to experience their side of the story also. and this is all pre-outland. this is why i like the game. there's challenging areas for all levels of players. i was never in a hurry to level to 70 back then (now 80), and to those who did try to make me level asap, i told them no, i'll enjoy the game my way. hence the 15 or so characters 60+. only five are in northrend, and only one is 80. i dont expect to move on to end game content any time soon (and my friend who's regularly raiding Naxx is urging me to join her but im still taking my time). perhaps, to those who do not see a point playing anymore whether it be not having wrath or whether it be having been bored of wrath already, they should find another game until new content comes out, or just altogether find a new game. saves them subscription money.

[zerlikjr]

I don't think he was saying remove EPL for example, just clean up the quest that would lead you to Naxx since you can't get there anymore. Maybe bridge the original stuff with the new so it flows better.

FYI my pally did not the epic mount quest, and I think it still adds to the game. What I found was anoying was my mage is trying to get the East Kingdom lore master achievement, went to EPL and there are many quest which can no longer be performed.

Even if they just added an NPC near where Naxx was to explain what happened and to give you the quest items for those quest that would fill in many gaps in the story.

[ptarn]

Don't get hung up on me mentioning Naxx, it was just an example. Someone said that lowbies/newbies should try and enjoy the content and get to know the lore a little, well... How can they still do that if some quest lines need nowhere and if other questlines, that did help the experience with lore, are either gone or drastically changed?

I get it that quite a lot of people don't care diddly-squat about the old world anymore, but even though I've been playing wow from the start, I kinda 'care' about the old world, so to speak. I think it's - for lack of a better word - sad in some ways that you have absolutely no incentive at all anymore to visit Molten Core or defeat Onyxia or 'do' the whole of Wailing Caverns other than that you're 80 and want to get the achievement for it. I would welcome the POSSIBILITY of revisiting those old places and gain something from it other than 'just an achievement'.

And yes, I understand completely that it's not as easy as I make it out to be, to re-program parts of the game that are 'old', but I would take certain pride in it, as a programmer, to know that the old content, that I worked on so much and so hard, isn't 'just some part of the game that bored 80's can do'.

[SithDrummer]

Don't get hung up on me mentioning Naxx, it was just an example. Someone said that lowbies/newbies should try and enjoy the content and get to know the lore a little, well... How can they still do that if some quest lines need nowhere and if other questlines, that did help the experience with lore, are either gone or drastically changed?
Not to mention trying to get an old-world raid going at anything less than 70 is practically an exercise in futility. After weeks of requests over LFG/LFM, I've successfully had one Ony raid and four unsuccessful ZG raids. The old-world raid content might as well not be there anymore, save for achievements and the ZG mount drops.

[elsegundo]

some old world areas do need further resolution, i agree. perhaps i misunderstood the original intent of the thread. in any case, it would be nice to make a level 75-80 area somewhere in azeroth. I do remember flying over algaz (i think it was) isle, where the naga and the dragons were- would love to figure out what that's all about. why 75-80? so the 70's wont easily go there without buying lichking.

[Twoflower]

Don't get hung up on me mentioning Naxx, it was just an example. Someone said that lowbies/newbies should try and enjoy the content and get to know the lore a little, well... How can they still do that if some quest lines need nowhere and if other questlines, that did help the experience with lore, are either gone or drastically changed?

that has always been that way. There were buggy questlines, questlines that lead nowhere etc since release and there will always be. On top of that, there are quest lines which lead trough raid instances which you will never see.

In the end you either want to play and enjoy the ride or you want something to cry about. If you are not in it for playing, you may as well quit.

[semiiramiis]

some old world areas do need further resolution, i agree. perhaps i misunderstood the original intent of the thread. in any case, it would be nice to make a level 75-80 area somewhere in azeroth. I do remember flying over algaz (i think it was) isle, where the naga and the dragons were- would love to figure out what that's all about. why 75-80? so the 70's wont easily go there without buying lichking.


You used to be able to find the lost Varian Wrynn in the cells under Alcaz Island. It was obviously supposed to be where you fought your way to him and escorted him out, but the quest line was never programmed. He later disappeared, but the mobs guarding him remain.

[ptarn]

In the end you either want to play and enjoy the ride or you want something to cry about. If you are not in it for playing, you may as well quit.

I don't know if this was a general statement or directed at my post in particular, but... Who says I'm complaining? I'm just stating that I would welcome some of the suggested changes, while at the same time literally stating that I do enjoy the achievements. This is a kind of negative way to look at threads like this, where people just want to react and speak their mind about stuff that they wonder about and hear what other people think. Lighten up! And why would I have to quit playing just because I utter criticism or 'think out loud' about a game I've played (and loved and supported) for more than four years?

Sheesh...

[semiiramiis]

The question I think most fitting is how much are we willing to do without? Naxx was revamped, reprogrammed and moved.... the ingame reason (Kel'thuzad returning to Northrend to lend support to the Lich King) makes perfect sense, and I can accept it.

But let's talk about Onyxia. The encounter is dated, and judging by the fairly large number of "Me and my buds two manned her" lacks even the "It's not easy" quotient to have as a reason to attempt her. Lorewise, Onyxia is dead. Gone. Bye-Bye. Because of that reason, it would make sense to remove the entire encounter. But do we want to remove the Great -50 DKP Event for those players who've never done it and may be able to convince a friend or two to go see her?

[Shellar]

If a character is dead in the current chapter, does it prevent you from going a few hundred pages back and re-reading the part where she was still alive?

[Alaris Mystique]

More to the point...

As a WoW newbie, I'd like to be able to experience most of the content. I already know that some events will never happen again, so I've missed them. This is sad. But the less is removed, the better it is for me...

... and any player that joins WoW late.

Even if that means that there are some temporal inconsistencies. Or even if that means just changing the boss's name but keeping everything else the same. Evil twins, or at least twins. It's a fantasy game, it's possible!

[semiiramiis]

More to the point...

As a WoW newbie, I'd like to be able to experience most of the content. I already know that some events will never happen again, so I've missed them. This is sad. But the less is removed, the better it is for me...

... and any player that joins WoW late.

Even if that means that there are some temporal inconsistencies. Or even if that means just changing the boss's name but keeping everything else the same. Evil twins, or at least twins. It's a fantasy game, it's possible!

Time travel is a firm part of Warcraft Lore. There are three separate instances: Black Morass, Old Durnholde and Old Stratholme where your toon time travels. And certainly new toons should be able to kill bats for Tirion, kill Onyxia, and experience the...ugh...well...buzzing that is AQ

[Apropos]

cleaning up this game would be horrible for some of us! I've been chasing level cap since just before Wrath came out. Due to real life i had to go away about half the time i had payed for last year. My main is now 79, and there is pressure from the guild to finish that level. But i was bored leveling alone - i called up a friend and raf'd him. now my second character as well as a forgotten alt are 59 (yay for level granting!). If they removed the old content that has no application to end game, i might not know it. But then i'd hear more of "xyz was great, if it still existed".

but new players are definately encouraged and prodded to get to cap as fast as possable. End content being "the best" (apparently) but i think it also has a lot to do with being at the same place as "the rest". Now we can all do instances, or whatever, and not have to go "well that is 5 lvls over me" or anything stupid like that.

don't clean it up! we want to know what it is we missed by not playing through the first 2 ver's of the game! even if that means we get a lot of trash talk when we ask if anyone wants to goto MC or kill Onixia or any of those "way overdone" things...

[prion]

yeah you are right about that. I don't want things removed, I want them fixed.

[Wintrow]

I think the whole point of the OP was NOT to delete stuff but have them "polished up" again instead of being loose ends.

Prime example is quest lines at Light's Hope that send you to old Naxx. Old Naxx isn't there anymore, so the quest lines should reflect that. Not saying they need to be removed. A neater solution is, like someone else posted, an NPC at the old spot where you'd enter Naxx waiting for you informing you that it's gone and either sending you back to the questgiver or offering you what you were looking for in the first place ("I found this lying around, maybe you have some use for it").

Another solution might be to have old Naxx simply remain at EPL while new Naxx remains in Dragonblight. I mean, Vaelestraz IS both in LBRS, UBRS AND BWL at the same time. And so is Saurfang, Teron Gorefiend and others.

[elsegundo]

I think the whole point of the OP was NOT to delete stuff but have them "polished up" again instead of being loose ends.

Prime example is quest lines at Light's Hope that send you to old Naxx. Old Naxx isn't there anymore, so the quest lines should reflect that. Not saying they need to be removed. A neater solution is, like someone else posted, an NPC at the old spot where you'd enter Naxx waiting for you informing you that it's gone and either sending you back to the questgiver or offering you what you were looking for in the first place ("I found this lying around, maybe you have some use for it").

Another solution might be to have old Naxx simply remain at EPL while new Naxx remains in Dragonblight. I mean, Vaelestraz IS both in LBRS, UBRS AND BWL at the same time. And so is Saurfang, Teron Gorefiend and others.

for naxx, that's been fixed.

roll a dk, in one of your missions in the starting zone, find the mailbox by the house/farm. take the quest and you'll receive a reply entitled "News from the North" or "News from the front" or something like that. it goes on to describe how Naxx flew away.

[Eliandor]

How can they still do that if some quest lines [lead] nowhere and if other questlines, that did help the experience with lore, are either gone or drastically changed?

<clip>

sad in some ways that you have absolutely no incentive at all anymore to visit Molten Core or defeat Onyxia or 'do' the whole of Wailing Caverns other than that you're 80 and want to get the achievement for it. I would welcome the POSSIBILITY of revisiting those old places and gain something from it other than 'just an achievement'.


I have never done MC related quests so I don't know if any of that has been changed. I do know that the end part of the Ony quest, related to finding the traitor in Duskwallow Marsh has been changed over the last year. You are no longer tracking down the king, but the traitor who helped his kidnappers. A whole extra short chain was added in some of the islands between Alcaz and the mainland, killing Defias and sorting through ship wreckage. The quests fill in the story, and let you know what happened lore wise so you know what happened around 40, and not have to level to 60, do the high level parts, and THEN find out what happened.

While there isn't much reason to kill Ony now, the lower level instances are good places for loot. Get a friend, guildie, or pay someone 10 gold (silly easy to get if you're to Outlands on a main) for a run or 3 through the instance, load up on blues, and be set for 10+ levels. If you are not doing every quest, you'll need to fill in your gear.


But let's talk about Onyxia. The encounter is dated, and judging by the fairly large number of "Me and my buds two manned her" lacks even the "It's not easy" quotient to have as a reason to attempt her. Lorewise, Onyxia is dead. Gone. Bye-Bye. Because of that reason, it would make sense to remove the entire encounter. But do we want to remove the Great -50 DKP Event for those players who've never done it and may be able to convince a
friend or two to go see her?

For something as small as Ony's lair (it is smaller, right?) I don't see a reason to remove it from the game. While the loot probably isn't worth it to a 60 to have some level 80 friends kill her for you, some people have enjoyed trying to solo or 2 or 5 man what was a 40 man raid. No real physical space is taken up.. and being instanced there isn't even any overhead on the servers unless someone is in it. There is no talk of removing RFC is there? Its probably run about as often. (Except for, as above, I run it for really low level blues. Great way to get a start on enchanting, horde side). Also, just how often do you get to fight a real, scaled dragon? And feel like it meant something? A guildie and I were in ST the other night, looking for the elder and getting the instance achievement. As a 70 DK, I had no fear when facing the 2 pairs of dragons.


but new players are definately encouraged and prodded to get to cap as fast as possable. End content being "the best" (apparently) but i think it also has a lot to do with being at the same place as "the rest". Now we can all do instances, or whatever, and not have to go "well that is 5 lvls over me" or anything stupid like that.

I don't think that Blizzard is doing the encouraging. My guild mates are all casual players so none of us are in any hurry to raid, but one member has quit playing WoW, partly because RL issues take up most of her time, and partly because she doesn't have anyone her level to play with right now. Her husband rushed on past her, and when they do play, he's the one urging her to rush through quests and areas she hasn't seen. She doesn't want to do that so she just hasn't logged on much.

"At the same place as the rest" does seem to be the problem more, everyone else is rushing through quests, no one wants to PUG the instances at proper levels (and few guilds it seems are large enough to have a 5 person set at the same level range). I just spent the last month or so dual boxing a pair of RAF'ed accounts so I could get all my toons to 60 on my main server. I have played all the old world stuff that wasn't raids and want to see Outlands with more than the 3 classes I have so far. For me, the new stuff is higher level stuff. I am a lot more satisfied now knowing I'll have plenty of new-to-me content available. Prior to my dual boxing binge, I was debating leaving WoW for a while, because 1-60 was so old and boring.

(On a side note, if anyone's got a guild somewhere with a dedicated leveling group, please PM me, I'd like to see how that works and how you arrange your playing times. Working strategy and group play would be a new experience, I've always solo'ed).

Sorry for this massive wall of text.

[prion]

i beleive game design is a large influence on the trend to level as fast as possible.
-new expansion=new trade mats=new economy, no one else gets to partcipate
-the way level difference figures into combat mechanics
-dailies and a lot of other quests simply aren't available until max level

there's other stuff but you get the idea.

[vincentcloud]

The should at least fix bugs with old world content. I remember doing onyxia for fun and her staying the whelp cave and not coming out(I guess she heard I was coming again and ran to hide lol). I do old world content sometimes to get achivement and take a stroll down memory lane or do thing that at 60 or 70 I couldnt do. As far updating your everyday run of the mill zones...dont bother I mean it easier to level my character cause I know what the quest calls for and for new people the story isnt that far in yet.