"Sorry, I'm Not Specced For That.. Duh!"

[phyrlord]

Tonight is the first time I have ever had to disband a group (lvl 68) due to lack of a healer when I had 6 + healing classes interested in going. It's honestly really starting to piss me off when the mentality of healing classes are: "sorry my healz don't work, I'm not spec'ed for it". They honestly think they can not heal at all if they are not spec'ed into their healing tree. It would be like someone thinking they would never be able to learn how to physically drive a car with out having a drivers license, and I think there's a lot of people out there that think that.

I really can't wait until dual spec's come out and a healing class not having one of its specs in the healing tree would be unacceptable. Although, knowing the general mentality of the average wow player "F' everyone else, who cares" you'll see druids spec'ed both feral and balance as their 2 specs.

/rant

[elsegundo]

when i was a feral druid at 70, i tried healing ramps. i switch out almost all of my gear for it to. i was OOM on every boss fight and several times when battles last a bit longer than they should. mind you this is a 70 healing ramps as an offspec.

some offspec heals fine. while others do not. a lot of people know their limits especially since they are the ones playing their character daily.

and yes, if dual specs come out (though im a bit against this idea anyway), i'd spec feral and boomkin.

[phyrlord]

This makes me feel a bit more calmed.

[clevins]

and as a shadow priest I healed Gundrak at 74. It DOES depend, but my take on it was "Hey, I'm shadow, no guarantees about this". If I heal as offspec and you whine at me about my healing, I'm outta there. But as long as the tank's good, why not at least try?

[det]

If you desperately want to do a run, respecc.

But indeed, I had shamans refuse to heal in raids, as if enhancement means, your healing spells get greyed out.

Well, maybe I am just the odd idiot out, but even when levelling, I keep gear that can be offspecc.

So..we I needed one more heroic badge...our Naxx tank felt adventurous, my dps warrior friend anyhow, and I slipped in some spelldamage kit from questing while specced protection and we three mannned the Mammoth boss in heroic Gundrak.

I was pretty proud of that, but for some of my guildies it seemed like they do it every day ^^

[Trakamoocow]

I don't tend to bother offspec healing much. After healing a heroic in BC offspec with my prebc gear as a favour, anyway. "ololol ur a suckee heal0r loooolollol". "Yeah champ, offspec with -10 purplz doing this to help out buddy settle down ". "u r crap lol l2p noob ur purplz not halp hurr".

Sometimes your maximum HPS just wont be enough. Bring on dual specs.

[phyrlord]

I took a break from wow for a long time, 2 years. I just started playing my 60 again(now 68). I raided pretty good back in the MC/blackwing lair days as a shaman and if you weren't heal spec'ed you weren't even allowed to come. I guess that's then and this is now and one of the new lessons I have learned is that non-heal trees/builds are buffed out the ass and I wish blizzard would do something like they did with the hunter where a lot of your talents buffed both you and your pet. If they made some of the talents (druid for example) in feral or balance to also buff healing power.

[Alaris Mystique]

Newbie here... but I find it hard to believe that support-class ppl would refuse to heal. I mean, I'm building a shaman, a druid, and a priest. For all three, I can't wait for dual spec so I can have 1 spec into levelling, and 1 into support. I'd happily heal offspec if I have to (given the group is ok with it), why else would I want to play a support role?

Sure these classes can do other things than support... thankfully... but I would not consider those other roles as main roles.

Maybe it's just newbie enthousiasm speaking.

[Cattleya]

The simple solution to the problem is to roll your own healer. If you don't want to play a healer, then maybe you can accept that some people rolled a character to tank/dps, regardless of whether or not their class is capable of healing.

No one owes it to you to heal your pug for you just based on what their class is. If they are willing to take more time to look for a group as dps, then that is their choice.

[drewid]

I was RET at the time of doing Heroic UK, after the bow/crossbow for a guildie hunter.

Our healer Dc'd, We sat in the instance for 30 mins trying to find a healer, in the end we couldnt get one.
so i suggested i would give healing ago. hearthed to my bank grabbed my array of blue heal gear id been collecting.

Well my heals took the full 2.5 sec casts, used up ridiculous amounts of mana on healing, i had to drink after every pull. Once we got group damage someone generally ate it while i was half way thru a heal.

We did end up finishing it and didnt wipe, but was very frustrating for me, on last boss was just me the tank and the hunter alive and she got the drop so all good. But i wouldnt put my hand up to do it again.
also with dual specs, i wouldnt assume everyone will have a heal spec. I know alot of pallies will go prot/ret.

[ptarn]

I'm a balance druid and I ALWAYS support the group when needed. I decurse, cure poison and help healing when needed, but it's not my main spec and therefor I'll never be as good a healer as a resto-specced druid or a holy priest or pally. And yes, I'm one of 'those druids' that will go balance/feral when the dual specs come out, because, frankly, I do not like healing as much as I used too. And that's what everything comes down to in the end: Do you want to play a healer, a tank, or a dps? What style suits you most? And if you want to force people to heal/tank/dps even though they've said numerous times it's just not their play style, I think you'd have to ask yourself who's the 'sad one' in this case...

(Note: The 'you' I use is general purpose, it is not meant to address anyone in specific.)

[dwarfenhelm]

on my priest i leveled it as shadow to 57 but i healed nearly every time i did a dungeon. i could do this becuase i had a full healing set as well as a dps set. now im slowly leveling my priest in northreand as shadow again and doing the odd healing in dungeons. im managing ok but only ok, i have full healing set i was using in t5 raids so ive def got the gear for it but s shadow my heals arnt any near as efficient as they was when i was holy.
basicaly it comes down to if the multi task class has the gear to multi task. if your a tank and have a second set for dps then you cant heal, if your a spell caster you might get away with healing in dps gear but your mana regen will be crap and might not last the fight before you go oom
then you have the players that roll a druid only to tank or a priest only as shadow, apart from putting the odd heal on themselfs out of combat they dont have the first clue how to heal and nor do they want to know

[HiceRION]

Another issue is sometimes people just aren't cut out to be a healer, even if they are heal spec.

We all have friends or guildmates who are like this, they have only one play mode, and while good at it, its all they can usually handle. Like a guildmate who is amazing using a mage or a warlock, but runs around bumping into walls like they have a disability if you hand them a rogue, or vice versa. Or someone who is a miracle with a keyboard as a protection warrior, but hand them a resto druid and everyone dies within 4 seconds.

This is also something to consider when someone says they can't heal. I know I'm a barely passable healer. Even pre wrath when my shaman main had healing gear from BT/Hyjal and i would full on spec for healing, I still wasn't a very good healer, just didn't seem to be my thing.

[Shellar]

I know plenty of Paladins who will choose Prot/Ret as their dual specs of choice.

[Argument]

I'm a feral druid. What I'd like to do is kitty dps, and in the few pug raids I've been on that's what happens. In 5-mans, however, the only way to get a group is as a tank. I don't mind tanking, in the right circumstances and with the right group I really enjoy it, and anyway that's what I need to do to get groups, so it's ok. But this role-splitting, combined with the "bloat" that was added into the feral talent tree, means that even as a full feral druid I'm using a hybrid tank/dps build. When dual specs come out, I'm not going feral/resto or even feral/balance - I'm going feral/feral.

[Marlous]

If they made some of the talents (druid for example) in feral or balance to also buff healing power.

Hm, they do have this in some places. My resto Druid has 14 points in Balance because some of the upper tier talents count for both damaging and healing spells. However, those 14 points don't mean that I can go as a decent dps in an instance - they just mean that I can manage my own a bit better when it comes to questing and such. I once went into Gun'drak as a dps at level 74, but that was with a group of friends where the tank was 79 and the healer was 80 and who just wanted me along for the boost - my dps was so incredibly crap that I'll never consider myself a possible dpser with this spec (although granted, mostly due to the level difference and the lack of hit).

At that same level I think that, say, a retridin or a elemental shammy might perhaps be able to heal, but they'd perform poorly compared to a healer who is specced for it. If you accept that on a run, then sure.. but the 'healer' in question might not accept it themselves. And then you'll just have to respect it, because they know their class and they also don't want the label 'noob healer' because they can't do their job properly. Trust me, I've seen it happen where the tank was so desperate for a healer that he persuaded a ele shammy to come heal, and then got mad at them when it didn't work out. That's just not done.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

The simple solution to the problem is to roll your own healer. If you don't want to play a healer, then maybe you can accept that some people rolled a character to tank/dps, regardless of whether or not their class is capable of healing.

No one owes it to you to heal your pug for you just based on what their class is. If they are willing to take more time to look for a group as dps, then that is their choice.

That's pretty much my take on it and why my alt preist is now my best geared toon.

My problems are kinda the opposite of the OP. I don't like it when DPS tries to join my group as either a tank or healer.

[hawkmaniaceye]

All players play this game for different reasons, which is their right. If a Shaman plays to be dps, you can't force him to heal if he don't want to, only thing to do is simply respect that he/she is a dps, and not healer.

Me on the other hand, got different play styles, I enjoy both dps and healing, and Tanking is okay, if I'm needed too. All though I know my limits if I'm simply too bad to Heal, dps or Tank, so do others.

[semiiramiis]

Tonight is the first time I have ever had to disband a group (lvl 68) due to lack of a healer when I had 6 + healing classes interested in going. It's honestly really starting to piss me off when the mentality of healing classes are: "sorry my healz don't work, I'm not spec'ed for it". They honestly think they can not heal at all if they are not spec'ed into their healing tree. It would be like someone thinking they would never be able to learn how to physically drive a car with out having a drivers license, and I think there's a lot of people out there that think that.

I really can't wait until dual spec's come out and a healing class not having one of its specs in the healing tree would be unacceptable. Although, knowing the general mentality of the average wow player "F' everyone else, who cares" you'll see druids spec'ed both feral and balance as their 2 specs.

/rant

Okay..here goes...because I am one of the above you're ranting about. My main is a shaman, regular status, full resto. I am in full t6/Black Temple healing gear right now. In other words, I heal. It's what I do. Er, normally. Right now I am specced full enhancement to level. What does this mean? It means quite bluntly, I am not going to heal until I hit 80 and spec back to my true spec. I am not going to put myself and any parties through the hell of an offspecced healer.

As for dual spec, first, I am a healer. I have no intentions of having a dual spec. I know what I am, and I don't want to flip flop/wish wash. But if (as you put it) healing classes... (They're not all healers, and a lot of them don't want to be) want to dual spec and have both their sides non healing, more power to them. Who are you to tell them that they're bad players for doing what they derive enjoyment of and decide not to be what YOU think they should be. It's *unacceptable* for anyone to try to tell them how they should play their toon. It's theirs. Need a healer, fine, tell them they can't go on your run as a dps spec. But don't think they should play their toon how you say. You want a healer? Revel in the experience of leveling one.

[raymore]

But if (as you put it) healing classes... (They're not all healers, and a lot of them don't want to be) want to dual spec and have both their sides non healing, more power to them. Who are you to tell them that they're bad players for doing what they derive enjoyment of and decide not to be what YOU think they should be. It's *unacceptable* for anyone to try to tell them how they should play their toon. It's theirs. Need a healer, fine, tell them they can't go on your run as a dps spec. But don't think they should play their toon how you say. You want a healer? Revel in the experience of leveling one.

I agree with you here. While I will probably have a healing and dps spec, not everyone will. Why? Healing isn't for everyone. Some people just like the pewpew of dps or the tanking.

I have off-healed before letting the group know that I'm not specced for healing. It's not much fun. I went oom a lot since my heals aren't that strong. Plus, some people start calling you noob and all those other nice things when the run goes to crap. It's just not worth it.

[elsegundo]

Newbie here... but I find it hard to believe that support-class ppl would refuse to heal. I mean, I'm building a shaman, a druid, and a priest. For all three, I can't wait for dual spec so I can have 1 spec into levelling, and 1 into support. I'd happily heal offspec if I have to (given the group is ok with it), why else would I want to play a support role?

Sure these classes can do other things than support... thankfully... but I would not consider those other roles as main roles.

Maybe it's just newbie enthousiasm speaking.

I dont think there's realy such a thing as a support "class". it is moreso a support "spec" than anything else. on my druid, just because i can heal doesnt mean im going to heal. in fact, most people do not even want me to heal because im feral. they'd rather have me tank or do some dps. either one works fine with me. i do heal though... on my holy priest and shadow priest. and on my balance druid, i also heal if needs be, but its really because its easier for a balance druid to heal than a feral due to gearing similarities and certain balance abilities benefiting your heals.

let me explain about the gearing. feral dps like to stack certain stats such as str, agi, stam, armor, attach power, etc. while balance druids would rather add int, mp5, spi, spell power, etc. this is also something a resto druid would add. therefore, its a lot easier for a balance druid to simply heal (albiet marginally) if there are no other options. i do this on my balance druid often and have little worries about it. the other thing is also is that balance druids have great mana regen, which keeps them going whether they dps or heal. this you cannot simply do as a feral druid. if i was asked to heal an instance in my feral druid, you'll see about four major heals from me, a few lifebloons and a rejuv and im OOM and youre SOL. i've done this with world elites too, especially when its suggested that there be five people to kill a certain boss. it took a wipe or two but we figured out how to kill it.

the balance druid vs. restro druid can be compared with the shadow priest vs. holy/disc priest or the elemental shaman vs. the resto shaman. their gearing is similar, though not completely and can somewhat take the role of a healer if needs be.

if you like playing the support role, then thats great for you. roll a shaman, druid, or priest. but make sure they're the right spec for support. just dont tell others that, for example if they're a shaman, that they're support. they will tell you otherwise, especially now since shaman dps rocks many socks. dont tell druids that they're support when they specialize in dps or tanking... you get my picture. its the spec.

[Alaris Mystique]

just dont tell others that, for example if they're a shaman, that they're support.

I was going to post...

I've heard some good arguments, and I've changed my mind... we should be accepting that for some reason, some people refuse to play support. I still maintain that in exceptional situations, they should do it... like if the healers DC or quit and you just need to finish the instance. But otherwise, people should respect other people's choices.

The specs/offspec, and the gear obviously play a large role. Not everyone will have what they need to do a half-decent job. But also, some people don't want to deal with the aggravation of doing a job they don't enjoy, or they know they're not good at. It takes practice to support well, and someone who is not used to that playstyle has good chances of doing a bad job of it.

As for me, I'm still looking forward to dual-spec, and all my supports will dual as healers. But, like was pointed out so nicely in posts above... that's me.

[clevins]

The problem with people who refuse to play support roles n hybrid classes is that, as dps, they whine if they don't put out dps like a pure class. Let me see, you rolled a class that has more capabilities... if you choose not to use them, fine, but the CLASS shouldn't be able to do the same dps as a pure class which cannot alter their role. I've had ferals tell me that they should be as good as a rogue, completely ignoring that they can do 3 other roles too - "But I don't WANT TO." Great... so you didn't roll a rogue because....?

[Alaris Mystique]

They didn't roll a rogue because they wanted to be a cat. Don't underestimate the power of aesthetics.

I was pretty disappointed that I couldn't be a Night Elf Warlock. If Mr. T can be a Night Elf Mohawk, why can't I be a Night Elf Warlock?

Anyway, I agree that multi-role classes should not be *as* efficient as pure-role classes, but they should be close, especially if they gear and spec for that one role at the expense of any other role they could have.

[Mazhulsage]

*Shrug* Personally, if I see the tank dropping in health steadily, or I know there's a big blow coming, I pop out of Cat Form and throw 3 heals out in this order: Regrowth (Since they're most likely under 50% health if I'm going out of form), Lifebloom, Rejuv.

Of course, even when I do that, the tank isn't sure to live... So I luckily am able to semi-tank for what should be the last mob or two, if not, it gives them a chance to run a bit while I Frenzied Regen =P.

[elsegundo]

you can be a blood elf warlock.
they're just a little smaller and lighter skinned.


anyway...
*Shrug* Personally, if I see the tank dropping in health steadily, or I know there's a big blow coming, I pop out of Cat Form and throw 3 heals out in this order: Regrowth (Since they're most likely under 50% health if I'm going out of form), Lifebloom, Rejuv.

Of course, even when I do that, the tank isn't sure to live... So I luckily am able to semi-tank for what should be the last mob or two, if not, it gives them a chance to run a bit while I Frenzied Regen =P.
context maz, context.

The problem with people who refuse to play support roles n hybrid classes is that, as dps, they whine if they don't put out dps like a pure class. Let me see, you rolled a class that has more capabilities... if you choose not to use them, fine, but the CLASS shouldn't be able to do the same dps as a pure class which cannot alter their role. I've had ferals tell me that they should be as good as a rogue, completely ignoring that they can do 3 other roles too - "But I don't WANT TO." Great... so you didn't roll a rogue because....?
i didnt roll a rogue because... i did!! yea i know some people complain about it too. but rogues complain about my abilities (remember my friend you tried to help?) and how i can easily heal up and how i have the ability to change forms, run, or tank, etc. i cant beat her in dps, but i do have other abilities she wishes she had.

[clevins]

They didn't roll a rogue because they wanted to be a cat. Don't underestimate the power of aesthetics.

I was pretty disappointed that I couldn't be a Night Elf Warlock. If Mr. T can be a Night Elf Mohawk, why can't I be a Night Elf Warlock?

Anyway, I agree that multi-role classes should not be *as* efficient as pure-role classes, but they should be close, especially if they gear and spec for that one role at the expense of any other role they could have.

I have no issue with aesthetic choices... but the "oh, I have to focus my gear choices on one role" argument falls flat. So does the pure class - they are very dependent on their gear. But if that cat every wants to try another spec, they respec and gear up. The pure has to re-roll and relevel. 80 levels. Yet virtually all of the hybrids who are single role focused ignore the little issue of leveling and pretend like re-gearing is a huge deal.

EDIT: Some official news on this http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/dualspec.html is an interview with GC. My fave point:


Ghostcrawler: With the dual spec feature, we are going to allow players who respec to configure all their talents before they get saved. They will be able to allocate the points, then choose if they want to use that as their spec, rather than needing to carefully diagram out their talents ahead of time. This will allow players a little more freedom when deciding on the talents they want to pick and avoid costly mistakes.

[Alaris Mystique]

From the same site:
Nethaera: Who will be able to use it?
Ghostcrawler: Players who have reached the maximum level will be able to set up dual specs.

Nethaera: Why do players need to be max level in order to do this?
Ghostcrawler: We didn’t want to burden lower-level players with extra complexity as they’re working to level up and learn their class. But if the feature proves popular we might consider expanding it.

DOH!

Levelling 6-7 characters, I'll never get to use that feature!

I find the reasoning flawed. Do I really need to play until lvl 80 to learn how to play? Even if so, wouldn't that meant that dual-spec ppl would automatically be really bad at level 80 on their 2nd spec, because they've had no opportunity to practice their 2nd spec?

I certainly hope Blizzard reconsiders this, and makes dual spec available at all levels from the get go, or at least, as soon as bugs have been worked out.

[clevins]

I think there's more to it than what they say. Imagine if you setup 2 specs at 30... then switched back and forth at, oh, 32. You unpsent points how's that handled? At 80 it's not an issue. Same for gear - it's less of an issue at 80 as you don't burn through the gear changes as fast.

[prion]

I hope so too, this is another design aspect of the game that will encourage people to rush to 80 as fast as possible.

Would be nice if they could find some way for the trainer to explain it that is at least slightly believeable. ("To prepare for a new role in battle you can spend some time studying abilities that you have previously learned but have gone unused")

cLevins what he said about the gear is that there will be an unrelated gear switcher feature that will allow you to easily switch out gear for whatever reason.

[elsegundo]

From the same site:


DOH!

Levelling 6-7 characters, I'll never get to use that feature!

I find the reasoning flawed. Do I really need to play until lvl 80 to learn how to play? Even if so, wouldn't that meant that dual-spec ppl would automatically be really bad at level 80 on their 2nd spec, because they've had no opportunity to practice their 2nd spec?

I certainly hope Blizzard reconsiders this, and makes dual spec available at all levels from the get go, or at least, as soon as bugs have been worked out.

i have 11 characters 60+. not including dks. 14 if you include dk's.
one is 80, three others in northrend, three alliance side kinda retired, two dk's in outlands learning their different specs. one dk in northrend (included with the three above) on my main server. hold on... no wait... my mistake. add three more level 60+ chars somewhere in outlands...

yea... i'll get to dual spec one character. =]

edit: not trying to brag. just started about a year and a half ago. its not too hard to get a character up to 60. its a tad easier to get it to 68. its a lot harder to get it to 80. and eventually, when playing, you end up with classes you like and classes you dislike. i started off as a mage, then hunter. no i will never roll a hunter or mage again. i ended up liking the feral druid, the dk, the prot pally, and the affliction warlock. you'll have a chance to find the class that you like as well. especially since you already know you're a "support" type person, you'll be rolling those first. but dont be afraid to roll others, including tanks. you might end up changing your preferences later on.

[Shellar]

It would be like someone thinking they would never be able to learn how to physically drive a car with out having a drivers license, and I think there's a lot of people out there that think that.
Driving without obtaining a license first is not just a bad idea, it's a crime.
Healing with 0 points in the relevant tree is not a crime, but it's a bad idea.

[Valas Azuviir]

I've heard some good arguments, and I've changed my mind... we should be accepting that for some reason, some people refuse to play support. I still maintain that in exceptional situations, they should do it... like if the healers DC or quit and you just need to finish the instance. But otherwise, people should respect other people's choices.


Two caveats that should be added to this, is that a) the request is done respectfully. Going: you druid/shammy/paladin, start healing isn't going to be very successful or motivating for that matter.

It's been a long while since I've run around with my Priest, but he's shadow specced. Never the less, I have done instances with him. I'm also upfront with, the fact that I'm shadow specced. That I don't mind healing, but that I won't be as good at it as one of the other healing classes who do have the proper spec. I've been lucky enough to run with other classes, who are specced that way (usually druids for some reason). And yes, I've had to jump into the healing fray because something unexpected happened.

Druid getting sapped/put to sleep, mind controlled etc.

Which brings me to b) if such a person does decide to heal, even though they're not specced for it, don't have the gear for it, haven't done it that much. Then don't slag them off. Nothing more demoralizing than to get insulted as pointed out earlier by Trakamoocow.

I've had that happen as well, unfortunately for them, I can be rather sharp tongued when irked. So that tends to lead to comments like: Which part of me pointing out that I'm shadow specced, haven't done much healing, and don't have the gear for it, did you fail to grasp earlier? Those who complain about things, they were warned about in advance really aren't the sharpest blades in the drawer.

And the age old l2p noob, tends to lead to comments like: Yup, I'm such a noob, yet I at least understand that a shadow priest isn't going to be as good at healing as a holy priest or resto druid, now what's your excuse Oh Great One, that you were unaware of this, or didn't speak up earlier when I pointed out that I wasn't specced for this properly and why didn't you attempt to get a properly specced replacement for the main healer that we lost.

Usually leads to the PitA leaving angrily, but tends to get chuckles from the rest of the party. (Probably because I'm fairly laid back for the rest, even when it comes to loot rolls. And am not afraid of putting my own backside on the line, if things go pear shaped so that the rest of the party at least can get out alive.) *shrugs*

[det]

I know plenty of Paladins who will choose Prot/Ret as their dual specs of choice.

:cool: After 4 years of dps I will be Prot and holy as second specc. Both are just awesome and 100% capable of wiping entire raids, mwhahahha:grin:

[Cattleya]

I've heard some good arguments, and I've changed my mind... we should be accepting that for some reason, some people refuse to play support. I still maintain that in exceptional situations, they should do it... like if the healers DC or quit and you just need to finish the instance. But otherwise, people should respect other people's choices.

There is a difference between expecting someone who is dps/tank specced to come in and heal an instance vs. expecting someone who is heal capable of potentially tossing heals out if things get hairy.

You are right, in exceptional circumstances, I do expect the ret pally/enchancement shaman/boomkin to heal. I remember solo healing Kara and when we would get to Illhoof asking which heal capable player would heal me if I got sacrificed. After the astounding silence that often followed, I'd usually say "Screw it, just soulstone me." :grin:

So yes, characters with some support skills should use them when appropriate. However, also keep in mind that it's not always the best for a non healer to start healing. Tanks put themsleves at great risk if they start to heal (more risk in general than not getting a heal at all.) Also, sometimes killing the boss faster is more useful than weak off spec heals from a dpers when things go badly.

[mesonm]

:cool: After 4 years of dps I will be Prot and holy as second specc. Both are just awesome and 100% capable of wiping entire raids, mwhahahha:grin:

I'll be prot (primary) and holy also...There will never be a time when you can't get into a party of some sort...

[Alaris Mystique]

I think there's more to it than what they say. Imagine if you setup 2 specs at 30... then switched back and forth at, oh, 32. You unpsent points how's that handled? At 80 it's not an issue. Same for gear - it's less of an issue at 80 as you don't burn through the gear changes as fast.

I say if you bother using the feature, then bother learning it. It's a great idea especially during levelling, and I think at most I'd put a restriction to be lvl 20 before you use it. Not 80.

I hope so too, this is another design aspect of the game that will encourage people to rush to 80 as fast as possible.

Not planning to be level 80 ever. I'll be happy if it happens, but it's not one of my goals.

you'll have a chance to find the class that you like as well. especially since you already know you're a "support" type person, you'll be rolling those first. but dont be afraid to roll others, including tanks. you might end up changing your preferences later on.

I only recently started enjoying support... I also have rolled a warlock, a mage, and a hunter. Planning for a death knight when I can.

Two caveats that should be added to this, is that a) the request is done respectfully.
b) if such a person does decide to heal, even though they're not specced for it, don't have the gear for it, haven't done it that much. Then don't slag them off.

Agreed.

[semiiramiis]

cLevins what he said about the gear is that there will be an unrelated gear switcher feature that will allow you to easily switch out gear for whatever reason.

And if not, Outfitter will do the job as well. (Damn fishing gear change from Lurker, growl, snarl.)


What I find really, really funny about this thread is that no one has turned it around. I play a shaman, who is, yes, resto. Always with the heals. Rawr. Where's the complaint that your healing specced hybrid refuses to dps to "support" the group? It should be equally valid a question, but I don't see it. It's always why don't they heal?

[mesonm]

Where's the complaint that your healing specced hybrid refuses to dps to "support" the group? It should be equally valid a question, but I don't see it. It's always why don't they heal?

Of course, the obvious answer is that when heals are needed, the healer is either overtaxed, or dead.

When dps is needed, there is still most often a (higher) need for the healer to heal.

[phyrlord]

Ahhh *sigh of relief*, it’s so nice to see a decent discussions about a topic; I knew I could post here with out getting on the retard rickshaw like at the official wow forums. You guys have all great and valid opinions and I think at the end of the day I’m going to focus on starting up a druid and play 60/40 feral/resto respectively, especially now that druids can be very viable tanks too from what I have noticed these days. This way I can support any roll needed, dps, healing, tank. I’m going to put my 68 hunter on hold for now (highest character so far).

I’m sick of feeling helpless when trying to find a group.

[Dhoum]

I play an Enhancement Shaman. For normal instances or group quests I am quite happy to heal, I've accumulated a reasonable healing set which I always keep on me. What I won't do, however, is main-heal an heroic or a raid. Thi sisn't because I just want to do DPS, it's because I know the limitations of my class well enough to know that when it comes to top-level class roles, being "good enough" isn't. Sure I've got a reasonable amount of +healing but I don't have talents that give me key abilities, give reduced mana cost heals, give me instant cast spells (when not dpsing), shorten my cast time, enhance my heals, etc. When you start Heroics these additional abilities are no longer a nice-to-have bonus, they're essential. Having said that, if the main healer drops then I switch in my healing weapons and start casting away for all I'm worth ... I might just be able to stop a wipe if I'm lucky, but I'll be out of mana and a potion down at the end of it.

[Alaris Mystique]

Where's the complaint that your healing specced hybrid refuses to dps to "support" the group? It should be equally valid a question, but I don't see it. It's always why don't they heal?

I think it's because, on a population level, there are fewer people who enjoy playing support than there is a need for. I've seen this in other RPGs as well, support types are generally harder to find... and it's generally easier to get into groups as support.

In contrast, too many ppl like playing DPS or tanks (nothing wrong with that), but that creates competition between them for getting the healers.

[elsegundo]

Ahhh *sigh of relief*, it’s so nice to see a decent discussions about a topic; I knew I could post here with out getting on the retard rickshaw like at the official wow forums. You guys have all great and valid opinions and I think at the end of the day I’m going to focus on starting up a druid and play 60/40 feral/resto respectively, especially now that druids can be very viable tanks too from what I have noticed these days. This way I can support any roll needed, dps, healing, tank. I’m going to put my 68 hunter on hold for now (highest character so far).

I’m sick of feeling helpless when trying to find a group.

I disagree. Druids have always been viable tanks.

[mesonm]

I think it's because, on a population level, there are fewer people who enjoy playing support than there is a need for.

I disagree, and think it is just the opposite...It is MUCH easier to find dps than it is to find either a healer or a tank.

If you are a healer, and you have a friend who is a tank, you can get groups in a matter of a few short minutes, every time....at least on my server.

[elsegundo]

I disagree, and think it is just the opposite...It is MUCH easier to find dps than it is to find either a healer or a tank.

If you are a healer, and you have a friend who is a tank, you can get groups in a matter of a few short minutes, every time....at least on my server.

i think you both are saying the same thing.

[Alaris Mystique]

I disagree, and think it is just the opposite...It is MUCH easier to find dps than it is to find either a healer or a tank.

If you are a healer, and you have a friend who is a tank, you can get groups in a matter of a few short minutes, every time....at least on my server.

That's what I said.

[Marlous]

I think you two have different ideas on who plays the supporting role. :wink:

Me, I think supporting role is off-spec. A healer doing a bit of dps in between, or a dps tossing in a few heals if it gets rough. A supporting role in a group doesn't exist.. tank, healer, and dps are all equally important ad supportive of eachother.

[Alaris Mystique]

I think you two have different ideas on who plays the supporting role. :wink:

oic

My definition of support is healers and buffers. Those are generally fewer than needed in RPGs, because people prefer to play DPS.

But I guess we all support each other in some ways!

(think of it this way, in movies, the fighter is the lead, whereas the healer (if there's even one) is a supporting character)

[semiiramiis]

I am not support. I am not a REMF, thank you very much. I am a vicious, cutting edge, omg! <with sprinkles> combat healer. I really do not like being catagorized as support. Supporting who? What? "And now, the Oscar for best supporting character goes to...." Er. No. We are hybrids. Not support.

[Mazhulsage]

It honestly pissed me off that Blizzard is going to make this "Max level only" dual-spec... I mean, honestly... If it takes over 3 months to make this thing (Which it probably already has, with multiple people working on it) then it shouldn't take much longer to add it to a "70+ ONLY" feature, then a "60+ ONLY" feature sometime after that...

Back on topic, I was just saying that most of the people I know, including myself, would gladly pop out of form/DPSing/etc to heal the tank up or offtank or stun, whatever it takes. Sure, I've seen quite a few times people just DPSing still after the tank has dropped below 50% health and the healer's low on mana even though they can heal... Why? They're bad players.

[Cattleya]

I am a vicious, cutting edge, omg! <with sprinkles> combat healer. The sprinkles are key. :grin:

It honestly pissed me off that Blizzard is going to make this "Max level only" dual-spec... I mean, honestly... If it takes over 3 months to make this thing (Which it probably already has, with multiple people working on it) then it shouldn't take much longer to add it to a "70+ ONLY" feature, then a "60+ ONLY" feature sometime after that...
I'm trying to be optimistic and looking at it this way. It's a pretty major change to the game, and something that will be hard to really see how it works until it's released to the masses. (Internal testing and PTRs may not pick up on some weird non-intuitive stuff that will screw up more casual players.) So, I'm hoping the 80-only is really just a massive beta on the ability, and they will expand it when it looks like everything is going smoothly.

[elsegundo]

It honestly pissed me off that Blizzard is going to make this "Max level only" dual-spec... I mean, honestly... If it takes over 3 months to make this thing (Which it probably already has, with multiple people working on it) then it shouldn't take much longer to add it to a "70+ ONLY" feature, then a "60+ ONLY" feature sometime after that...

Back on topic, I was just saying that most of the people I know, including myself, would gladly pop out of form/DPSing/etc to heal the tank up or offtank or stun, whatever it takes. Sure, I've seen quite a few times people just DPSing still after the tank has dropped below 50% health and the healer's low on mana even though they can heal... Why? They're bad players.This is fine, and i do it too if i have to. but when asking someone to be the go-to healer, the main healer, the only healer, then its totally different.

[Alaris Mystique]

So, I'm hoping the 80-only is really just a massive beta on the ability, and they will expand it when it looks like everything is going smoothly.

Hopefully.

Because this would be a great feature for me while levelling up *to* 80.

It's kinda wasted otherwise. I do hope they crank it down to 20 or even 10. The sooner I get my paws on this, the sooner I feel some freedom to spec healer.

[Cattleya]

And if not, Outfitter will do the job as well. (Damn fishing gear change from Lurker, growl, snarl.)Yeah, I finally had to disable the scripting on it as getting into combat while fishing would swap the weapon and break my cast. I'd rather let some mob 5+ levels lower than me get a few hit in than lose my cast. :grin:

What I find really, really funny about this thread is that no one has turned it around. I play a shaman, who is, yes, resto. Always with the heals. Rawr. Where's the complaint that your healing specced hybrid refuses to dps to "support" the group? It should be equally valid a question, but I don't see it. It's always why don't they heal? Oh, it happens. My 10 man group has 4 main spec healers in it. We often run with 3 healers simply because 3 of us really really don't want to run as dps. (Offspec gear if funny too. "I could use that for offspec, I suppose if no one needs it." "Sure, take it." "Wait a minute, you just want me to take it so that you can get me to go shadow, don't you?" "Well...") I've payed the respec for another holy priest to go shadow for a heroic run back in BC. (When we first started running 5 mans together, she was shadow. Sadly, the two holy priest issue meant that we just didn't run very much together anymore.)

It's actually harder for healers in some ways. If you absolutely never want to heal, you can roll a pure dps class. If all you want to do as heal, there is no class you can choose that can't also dps.

I suspect you just get less complaining from people about the healer situation. After all, you can often still run the instance with extra healers, it just takes a bit longer. Without any healer though, you can't do the run. I once did heroic Botanica with 2 tanks and 2 healers. Boy was our poor rogue overworked...

[Mazhulsage]

Alaris, in no way do I ever hope they drop it down to level 20. The MINIMUM they should drop it down to is 30, simply because until then... Why do you need to be restoration/holy/whatever? I could heal an instance as Enhance plenty well until 30, once I hit around SM areas (Y'know... 30-42ish) that's when it became increasingly tough... So, SM+, absolutely dual-spec should be available. Until then, I don't really feel people need it that much.

[semiiramiis]

Yeah, I finally had to disable the scripting on it as getting into combat while fishing would swap the weapon and break my cast. I'd rather let some mob 5+ levels lower than me get a few hit in than lose my cast. :grin:

Oh, it happens. My 10 man group has 4 main spec healers in it. We often run with 3 healers simply because 3 of us really really don't want to run as dps. (Offspec gear if funny too. "I could use that for offspec, I suppose if no one needs it." "Sure, take it." "Wait a minute, you just want me to take it so that you can get me to go shadow, don't you?" "Well...") I've payed the respec for another holy priest to go shadow for a heroic run back in BC. (When we first started running 5 mans together, she was shadow. Sadly, the two holy priest issue meant that we just didn't run very much together anymore.)

It's actually harder for healers in some ways. If you absolutely never want to heal, you can roll a pure dps class. If all you want to do as heal, there is no class you can choose that can't also dps.

I suspect you just get less complaining from people about the healer situation. After all, you can often still run the instance with extra healers, it just takes a bit longer. Without any healer though, you can't do the run. I once did heroic Botanica with 2 tanks and 2 healers. Boy was our poor rogue overworked...


Lol.... yeah. Guild: Look. Black Temple mace. Who wants it? Answer: <crickets> Guild: Come on, don't make us shard it. Who wants it? Other shaman: I don't think Damaris has an offspec mace. We could give it to her. Damaris <me>: I don't want it. Guild: Yeah. Give it to Damaris. <You have received loot, Swiftsteel Bludgeon> Damaris: /cry.

Ew. Botanica and rogues. Did heroic botanica once with.....sigh..... three rogues. A ret paladin. And my poor resto shaman. I was very proud of myself for actually keeping them alive long enough to finish (and yes we did) the instance.

[Mazhulsage]

If they made you pay DKP for it then yes, it would be absolutely BS... If not, free healing item, why not?

I actually did have a guild say "Offspecs pay 1/2 as much DKP as main spec if no main spec has it/wants it." so, when all the main specs had it, you would actually be FORCED to take the item for DKP (-50 DKP for something you didn't want in the first place, or however much it was.) so... At least now it'll actually go to use though.

[Shellar]

Lol.... yeah. Guild: Look. Black Temple mace. Who wants it? Answer: <crickets> Guild: Come on, don't make us shard it. Who wants it? Other shaman: I don't think Damaris has an offspec mace. We could give it to her. Damaris <me>: I don't want it. Guild: Yeah. Give it to Damaris. <You have received loot, Swiftsteel Bludgeon> Damaris: /cry.
I have a Swiftsteel Bludgeon on my priest.

(It was pretty handy for bashing magic-immune wyrms in Kara, too)