Why Your Gryphon Can't Fly in Azeroth

[Kasal]

Cool video on why flying mounts in the old world will likely never happen.

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-2727982515832160523&hl=en

I really hope this isn't one of those things where I'm the only guy here who hasn't seen it yet.

[pergolesi]

That could be one reason but I think the real reason is that they don't want us to find out what those dancing trolls are selling.

[Maticus]

Very nice find. I saw a sandbox version of WotLK before the expansion and saw a lot of this. You don't realise what's hidden from you at ground level.

It's a bit of a shock isn't it, it's a bit like being shown something you truly believe in is an illusion.

By the way, the music is 'Centre of the Sun' by Conjure One. If anyone knows where I can get the long version that plays on this video, please let me know!

[Bancduese]

All that video showed me is that Blizzard should have had a small team dedicated to fixing this problem a long time ago, and that every day they wait to do so, is one more day they will have to endure folks complaining about the lack of flying mounts in the old world content. Some areas can be walled off, much as the back side of Black Temple is from flying mounts. Some areas can be sculpted with a minimalist approach of snow or rocks or grass or sand or whatever, and some areas can be prepared for eventual future use as hidden areas for level 90s+ to venture into, but prepared it all should be. The reason Blizzard gives is they rather prepare new content; hello, this would be new content...

[Maticus]

Good point there Bancduese. It's probably a vicious circle, they don't want to make new content in the old world because high levels can't fly there, they can't fly there because the content isn't designed for it.

We should also remember that the graphics in the old areas are bad compared to the new content. If they just made new content in the middle of the old stuff, the transition between old and new would be terrible wouldn't it?

[skpstr]

Indeed Bancduese has a good point.

I'm not really up on the Lore, but from a browse of WoWwiki, some of the Emerald Dream stuff (rumoured to be the next expansion, maybe :ponder: ) is based in the old world. Surely then an idea for the next expansion might be to concentrate on updating the old world and adding the new content into these blank areas. In addition to the new content this might also encourage all those high levels back to the old world as well.

Just my two penneth. :grin:

[tralkar]

bullcrud,there are number of reasons. heres a few
1) he/she was flying?
2) some of the spots is where the real bird flies over.
3) if he was on a privet sever no wonder there's nothing there.
4) He/she was bugged.
5) was using the cheapest video card ever made.

[Janfader]

When it comes to the most popular and biggest MMORPG game in the world... there is absolutely no excuse. Blizzard has more money and resources than any other team out there. If I was lead designer, and wanted to keep my clients happy this project would have been resolved preTBC came out.

The old world content could use a nice clean up IMO. Blizzard could take the time to actually come out with another expansion cleaning up all of Azeroth. Some ideas.

1. Have the horde and Alliance back at that war.
2. On point #1. Have certain areas re-fortified, create new PvP ares (like wintergrasp) (have lvl caps on certain PvP areas)
3. Destroy certain places, rebuild certain places (like in Ice Crown, where you have to quest completion everything in order to see certain context of the game)
4. Create a new race starting point - like the neutral race of goblins... redesign some of the golbin places. So cool to start off neutrel IMO!!! Then pick a side!
5. Too much to list!

[Maticus]

bullcrud,there are number of reasons. heres a few
1) he/she was flying?
2) some of the spots is where the real bird flies over.
3) if he was on a privet sever no wonder there's nothing there.
4) He/she was bugged.
5) was using the cheapest video card ever made.

Nah, this looks like a sandbox, which works like a viewer for the WoW files. There are commands to make your character fly, move faster or teleport to places by using co-ordinates. It's genuine, though against Blizzard's ToS and can endanger your account.

Plus, when people fall through Stormwind, as they do sometimes, they can see all this. And of course there's Ironforge airport, you have to go over several dodgy bodged graphics areas to get there, as seen in the vid. I know it's hard to believe tralkar, we only ever see the pretty finished version of WoW, but all this exists just over the next hilltop :(

[prion]

what is the purpose of allowing flying in the old world? for people who can fly, there's no reason to be there.

I'm with Blizzard: this is not the best use of resources

[tuccoyote]

Sorry, this is a load of BS. The video was made using "private server". This works by scanning the areas that your character has passed through, which is loaded into memory. Since the people creating the live server, could never have gone to these places, their client doesn't have data for it, which is why none shows up. The structure of the land and objects exists, but it's not visible. While I am certain that there are parts of the zones that have nothing in them, they look nothing like what that video showed. The structure of Stormwind is still there from the sky, it's not like a painting or something. It's a rendered entity, otherwise we wouldn't be able to interact with the buildings and trees and such. The real reasons Blizz doesn't want to do this are: sheer size of territory to test interactions with, sheer amount of open sky and continent borders that would have to have logical boundaries built into them and purpose (meaning they would have to create new areas that your flying would lead to, why bother allowing flying if there is nowhere to go).

[clevins]

All that video showed me is that Blizzard should have had a small team dedicated to fixing this problem a long time ago, and that every day they wait to do so, is one more day they will have to endure folks complaining about the lack of flying mounts in the old world content. Some areas can be walled off, much as the back side of Black Temple is from flying mounts. Some areas can be sculpted with a minimalist approach of snow or rocks or grass or sand or whatever, and some areas can be prepared for eventual future use as hidden areas for level 90s+ to venture into, but prepared it all should be. The reason Blizzard gives is they rather prepare new content; hello, this would be new content...

Flying over Azeroth is NOT new content. It's artwork. There's no content there unless you can interact with it. Let's not distort the terms to mean something it doesn't. Content = quests, instances and the supporting stuff like mobs, towns etc. Mudsprocket in Dustwallow was new content. Being able to fly over Dustwallow is not.

And why does anyone care about flying in the old content? What, you want to get to Stonetalon faster? Seriously, what the hell is the attraction? I never go to the old world aside from occasional trips to the capital cities. There's simply no reason for anyone over 70 to spend time in old Azeroth. Kara was the last thing there and no 80 cares about it.

Face it, most of the whining about flying in Azeroth comes down to "I want to impress lowbies with my cool mount." You don't go there now, and after flying around a bit to see what it was like, you'd never go back to the old world. It's a waste of time. If you blocked off places like they do BT you'd have people whine about THAT. Someone would insist that they NEED to fly to Mauradon and having Desolace blocked was UNFAIR....

In other news, MOVE ON. You have all of Outland and Northrend in which you can fly - quit pretending that the old world was the pinnacle for everything WoW.

[Janfader]

Flying over Azeroth is NOT new content. It's artwork. There's no content there unless you can interact with it. Let's not distort the terms to mean something it doesn't. Content = quests, instances and the supporting stuff like mobs, towns etc. Mudsprocket in Dustwallow was new content. Being able to fly over Dustwallow is not.

And why does anyone care about flying in the old content? What, you want to get to Stonetalon faster? Seriously, what the hell is the attraction? I never go to the old world aside from occasional trips to the capital cities. There's simply no reason for anyone over 70 to spend time in old Azeroth. Kara was the last thing there and no 80 cares about it.

Face it, most of the whining about flying in Azeroth comes down to "I want to impress lowbies with my cool mount." You don't go there now, and after flying around a bit to see what it was like, you'd never go back to the old world. It's a waste of time. If you blocked off places like they do BT you'd have people whine about THAT. Someone would insist that they NEED to fly to Mauradon and having Desolace blocked was UNFAIR....

In other news, MOVE ON. You have all of Outland and Northrend in which you can fly - quit pretending that the old world was the pinnacle for everything WoW.

Wake up on the wrong side of the bed? :ponder:

I'll give you reasons: "If we could fly in azeroth"

1. Getting your other toon's prfessions up faster. i.e an engineer, tailorer, JCer (you get the point). Why would I waste time with my engineer when I have a toon that has mining and a epic flying mount? I could just fly around Azeroth collecting the mats - much like in TBC abd WotLK. :wink: Time is money my friend. :idea:

2. When you go and help your low level guildies doing a instance run... This explains everything. 7 minute FP from IF to Chillwind Point. 12 minute FP from Darn to Tanaris. Then there's the land mount riding after the landing.

3. Kinda hinders Blizzard s/w delevopment team doesn't it? "Oh, well, it's too hard". Are you kidding me? That is NOT a valid excuse IMO! 11 million people on line, the BLizzard Corp makes billions of dallars... don't tell me to MOVE ON!

4. Personally, I feel I have the right to after spending 4+ years playing the game.

3.

[clevins]

Wake up on the wrong side of the bed? :ponder:

Nope. Just tired of the whining about this one from people who feel entitled for no reason.


I'll give you reasons: "If we could fly in azeroth"

1. Getting your other toon's prfessions up faster. i.e an engineer, tailorer, JCer (you get the point). Why would I waste time with my engineer when I have a toon that has mining and a epic flying mount? I could just fly around Azeroth collecting the mats - much like in TBC abd WotLK. :wink: Time is money my friend. :idea:

reasonable, but you can make gold in NR and buy the mats too. Or, of course, you can use your EPIC ground mount. It's what I did on my DK...Oh and once the professions are leveled up to 375 (Outland levels), that reason's done with since you can fly in Outland.

2. When you go and help your low level guildies doing a instance run... This explains everything. 7 minute FP from IF to Chillwind Point. 12 minute FP from Darn to Tanaris. Then there's the land mount riding after the landing.

Epic flight isn't faster than a taxi, though the direct routes would surely shave time. Now, how often do most 70+ toons do this? Often enough to do all of the artwork of making the zones all flyable? Oh, and the taxi allows you to walk away if you want.

3. Kinda hinders Blizzard s/w delevopment team doesn't it? "Oh, well, it's too hard". Are you kidding me? That is NOT a valid excuse IMO! 11 million people on line, the BLizzard Corp makes billions of dallars... don't tell me to MOVE ON!

How does it hinder the dev team? That's a circular argument - it doesn't hinder the dev team unless the dev team is planning something that requires flying in a zone. Note that the dev team isn't the artwork team btw.

Let's say, for example, that they decided to put a raid instance in Grim Batol in the Wetlands. They could put a FP there, they could put a portal there that's accessible (like the dragon in Shatt that ports you to CoT or the portal in Dalaran that does the same thing) and of course they'd put a stone there so most people could get summoned. Ohh, instant teleport. Even FASTER than flying!!! Or, they could make the entire Wetlands flyable. Gee, which of those is the better use of resources?

The argument that they should do this because they make money is juvenile. They should spend that money on making the game better... flying in Azeroth would be a massive artwork effort for very little gain. You and the others sound like spoiled kids who think that they should have everything they want just because Daddy, er, Blizzard makes a good living.

4. Personally, I feel I have the right to after spending 4+ years playing the game.


Oh right, the entitlement. There it is...

[prion]

it's funny you mention flying into Maraudon clevins. i was thinking earlier today while at work that they should plop a mage or ranger about halfway thru the instance who not only teleports you home if you want but gives you a recall trinket, and one or two quests. and there'd be a summoning stone there also if you needed it.
-------no flying necessary

[Eido]

I agree with Clevins on this, there is absolutely no reason for the Blizz team to work on re-skinning and revertexing the whole of the 'old' world.

As Clevins alluded to, the only reason to fly in the old world is to be able to have all the noobs stare at you adoringly on your uber mount.

And as for the 'collecting mats' proposition, firstly I dont think it is very sporting for 70+ toons to be hoovering up all the nodes while noobs have to fight their way to a node to skill up. Secondly, nothing in the old world is going to bother you on a ground mount anyways - so you can deprive noobs of their nodes just as easily.

Oh and btw Janfader, the only right you have is to cancel your account if you feel you are not getting value for money.

[Janfader]

I agree with Clevins on this, there is absolutely no reason for the Blizz team to work on re-skinning and revertexing the whole of the 'old' world.

As Clevins alluded to, the only reason to fly in the old world is to be able to have all the noobs stare at you adoringly on your uber mount.

And as for the 'collecting mats' proposition, firstly I dont think it is very sporting for 70+ toons to be hovering up all the nodes while noobs have to fight their way to a node to skill up. Secondly, nothing in the old world is going to bother you on a ground mount anyways - so you can deprive noobs of their nodes just as easily.

Oh and btw Janfader, the only right you have is to cancel your account if you feel you are not getting value for money.

You guys sounds redicolus. Period. I'll explain it in clear water.

I or "we" are "paying customers" to a product. Without us, they have no product. Customers have EVERY right and are entitled to ask questions, state a wish list or recommend changes. I work as a Engineer support for the biggest telecom company in the world. I get 50-100 emails a day regarding questions like mine with our products. i.e. "Why can't it be better? Why can it be faster? Why does it have to be like this? Why is the color different than the last one?"

Customer, Customer, Customer. You cannot argue it. Without customers you don't have a product. And jsut because ther is two or three people above this thread sayinig otherwsie doesn't put you in a drivers seat.

I have my opinion and as writing code in my spare time, it's not that hard. When Blizzard or especailly you guys start making excuse for them... makes me ponder if your not one of their lazy s/w developers. :ponder: I just can't see someone arguing this like you have to the point where your assumming I'm some stuck up kid... please save me! It's people like you that have little idea of the world works.

[Kasal]

And why does anyone care about flying in the old content? What, you want to get to Stonetalon faster? Seriously, what the hell is the attraction? I never go to the old world aside from occasional trips to the capital cities. There's simply no reason for anyone over 70 to spend time in old Azeroth. Kara was the last thing there and no 80 cares about it.

Face it, most of the whining about flying in Azeroth comes down to "I want to impress lowbies with my cool mount." You don't go there now, and after flying around a bit to see what it was like, you'd never go back to the old world. It's a waste of time. If you blocked off places like they do BT you'd have people whine about THAT. Someone would insist that they NEED to fly to Mauradon and having Desolace blocked was UNFAIR....


Hey clevins, how are things? :smiley:

I can understand the reason why part of the community would like to see flying in the old world, although personally I don't think it matters 'cause it ain't never going to happen anyway. To say it's primarily because people want to show off is a little unfair, I think. With the number of people levelling alts and levelling professions, I can see the appeal. And what about achievements? At level 80 I was all over hell's half acre in the old world, cleaning up quests, hugging and killing critters, and all that other stuff. I can't count the number of assists I've provided to lowbie friends in old world instances. There's all kinds of reasons to return to these places; Blizz has even stated that some of the changes they've made (and not made, for that matter) have been done in the hope of providing some kind of incentive for high levels to return to their roots.

Having said all that, I still wouldn't want to see flying mounts in the old world. That's not to say, however, that I wouldn't promptly take to the sky if they ever made it so.

[Valas Azuviir]

Another reason to disallow it btw, has to do with PvP.

The city raids, flying mounts would allow the invaders to sidestep most of the defenders and do a combat drop right on top of the racial leader, thus also reducing the time that the players in the attacked city have of organizing a counter defense, or getting on the proverbial phone to high levels of their own faction for reinforcements.

Those couple of minutes that the guards can buy, can spell the difference between a successful raid and a failed one, due to an influx of high levels from the opposing faction native to the city under attack.

[Aerath]

I or "we" are "paying customers" to a product. Without us, they have no product. Customers have EVERY right and are entitled to ask questions, state a wish list or recommend changes. I work as a Engineer support for the biggest telecom company in the world. I get 50-100 emails a day regarding questions like mine with our products. i.e. "Why can't it be better? Why can it be faster? Why does it have to be like this? Why is the color different than the last one?"

Bovine Manure. You think that the dev/art team can whip up the entire map, pristinely reshaped and modeled in no time and all and with zero effort?
The time spent on it will have to come from somewhere, which basically means it'll be coming from something that is actually worthwhile.
Flying in old world means [intercourse] all. Lowbies can't fly there anyway (can't fly till 60, soon) and higher levels don't have any reason to even be in the old world that they can't directly port to.
What would flying in the old world accomplish? Easier ganking. Now, whilst i'm all in favour of world PvP, I can hardly see that as a binding reason to spend a couple dozen man hours (as in, couple dozen dozen) just to remodel pretty much the entirety of Azeroth.
It might even allow for easier farming of old world herbs and ores. Huzzah, yet another compelling reason to spend Content-Creating-Time on sweet bugger all.

Really, brilliant thinking. Let's whine about stuff that does nothing, instead of consider that Blizzard might actually be using that time to, you know, do something useful.

[prion]

Another reason to disallow it btw, has to do with PvP.

The city raids, flying mounts would allow the invaders to sidestep most of the defenders and do a combat drop right on top of the racial leader, thus also reducing the time that the players in the attacked city have of organizing a counter defense, or getting on the proverbial phone to high levels of their own faction for reinforcements.

Those couple of minutes that the guards can buy, can spell the difference between a successful raid and a failed one, due to an influx of high levels from the opposing faction native to the city under attack.

not bad, but easily answered. aerial patrols and canoneers
also, no one defends anyway.

[clevins]

Hey clevins, how are things? :smiley:

I can understand the reason why part of the community would like to see flying in the old world, although personally I don't think it matters 'cause it ain't never going to happen anyway. To say it's primarily because people want to show off is a little unfair, I think. With the number of people levelling alts and levelling professions, I can see the appeal. And what about achievements? At level 80 I was all over hell's half acre in the old world, cleaning up quests, hugging and killing critters, and all that other stuff. I can't count the number of assists I've provided to lowbie friends in old world instances. There's all kinds of reasons to return to these places; Blizz has even stated that some of the changes they've made (and not made, for that matter) have been done in the hope of providing some kind of incentive for high levels to return to their roots.

Having said all that, I still wouldn't want to see flying mounts in the old world. That's not to say, however, that I wouldn't promptly take to the sky if they ever made it so.

Hey Kasal,

I can see why some people might spend sometime in the old world. But I doubt very many people spend (or would spend) much time there. If you thnk about it, I doubt that helping low level friends would really counts for very much of most peoples' playtime... and Blizzard has numbers on that I bet. Sure, eic flight would be a bit nicer when leveling mining or herbing... but you already have an epic ground mount... should the make a zone flyable just for the difference?

Achievements? Yeah, I'd have explorer if I could fly all over... but again, that seems meh and I'm not blocked from doing it, I just need to ride on land. Same with quests. You can get to all of them on land and I can't imagine many people have epic flight but not an epic land mount.

Leveling alts/professions? well gathering is possible now on an epic and mount and noce you hit 375 you're in Outland and can fly there. Alts? you can't fly until 70 and again, you're in Outland and Northrend. Once that drops to 60 Outland flying will be even more accessible.

Jan - When your only recourse is to tell us we're idiots and possibly one of their lazy developers, you might want to consider that you don't actually have any good arguments. You're just a spolied kid (even if you're an adult by age) who wants what he wants and throws a tantrum when he doesn't get it or when people tell him he can't have it. Finally, their developers wouldn't do this - the art folks would. So you're not only being obnoxious, but ignorant. And yet we should believe you....

[Valas Azuviir]

not bad, but easily answered. aerial patrols and canoneers
also, no one defends anyway.

Yeah, but that does mean even more work, in addition to all that required to alter the world as well.

At the end it does remain a cost-benefit/result equation. If the result/benefit just doesn't outweigh the costs, then you'd be fairly loony tunes or very bored to do it anyway, just for the heck of it.

[bobmeloff]

I get 50-100 emails a day regarding questions like mine with our products. i.e. "Why can't it be better? Why can it be faster? Why does it have to be like this? Why is the color different than the last one?"

And how much of that is really taken into perspective? :tongue:

[Breewyn]

I'm on Blizzard's side with this one. Yes, Warcraft is a very successful MMORPG, but no company has unlimited resources. They have to decide what they're going to do with their time and money. I'd rather they worked on legitimate new content, fixed current bugs, and bought new servers than worried about having me take my flying mount through Elwynn and Westfall.

[Janfader]

Bovine Manure. You think that the dev/art team can whip up the entire map, pristinely reshaped and modeled in no time and all and with zero effort?
The time spent on it will have to come from somewhere, which basically means it'll be coming from something that is actually worthwhile.
Flying in old world means [intercourse] all. Lowbies can't fly there anyway (can't fly till 60, soon) and higher levels don't have any reason to even be in the old world that they can't directly port to.
What would flying in the old world accomplish? Easier ganking. Now, whilst i'm all in favour of world PvP, I can hardly see that as a binding reason to spend a couple dozen man hours (as in, couple dozen dozen) just to remodel pretty much the entirety of Azeroth.
It might even allow for easier farming of old world herbs and ores. Huzzah, yet another compelling reason to spend Content-Creating-Time on sweet bugger all.

Really, brilliant thinking. Let's whine about stuff that does nothing, instead of consider that Blizzard might actually be using that time to, you know, do something useful.

Speaking of brilliant, you really need to read the rest of the post. I as well some others have listed some reasons why it would be cool to have flying in Azeroth.

Aerath, I'm not whining, your just in love with "better leave things old" mentality.

And FYI: How long has been TBC been out? They have had a couple of years to make this project fly IMO.

Azeroth has "MANY" achievements to do... You think I want to spend 4 more years swirling around in circles in azeroth??? Wouldn't a flying mount speed that up? Which is what Blizzard is trying to do for everyone??? Speed up the game content???? Jesus man, get your head checked.

[Breewyn]

The excessive complaining on this issue actually discourages innovation. I bet you dollars to donuts that there are an awful lot of techies and customer service people at Blizzard saying "you know, I wish we never bothered creating flying mounts in the first place considering how much whining we get from level 80's who aren't happy having only 2 whole continents to fly around in."

So to those of you upset that there is no flying in Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms.... would you be happier if they just never created flying mounts in the first place? Or would you rather they had flying mounts in the expansion continents even though there aren't any in the original continents?

[Bancduese]

I would rather they had proceeded to revise the old content to make flight possible in all the areas of the game world. For those who oppose that and support the company line, fine, be supportive of that view, but I would rather not have you engage in overtly theatrical displays of emotion about it.

Name calling is one of the hallmarks of the 'net, and one of the less savory ones at that. The reason I decided to post here instead of other forums is that it occurs less often here than elsewhere. Even so, I recognize that some folks have a passionate interest in their viewpoint predominating to the exclusion of any other possible view--and somewhat unsurprisingly this topic is one that tends to bring out the less pleasant aspects of posting.

Having said all that, you can't change my mind that flight in the old world would lead to new content by it's very nature. It would alter the game content and make areas previously out of reach now accessible. This in turn would lead to content being included in that area as surely as the sunlight follows the nighttime. No game designer can withstand that temptation once it becomes possible; even more than nature abhorring a vacuum a game designer cannot leave an area empty if someone is going to access it on a regular basis.

The content in some cases will be minimalist, as is the case in many areas of the game world already available to the players. Simple rocks and grass and snow are sufficient in some areas. Others will include wildlife and even NPC's (both humanoid and non-humanoid) as the developers let their imaginations run free.

Hello, flight will lead to new content by the very nature of it. Argue against it all you wish but do try to be reasoned in your arguments. Simply following the company line is not a good enough and sufficient reason for a hypothetical question to be debated. Yes, I think all of us who would prefer flight in the old world content recognize that it is unlikely to occur but that does not negate our desire for it nor the desire for the new content that such a development would entail.

[Kasal]

The excessive complaining on this issue actually discourages innovation. I bet you dollars to donuts that there are an awful lot of techies and customer service people at Blizzard saying "you know, I wish we never bothered creating flying mounts in the first place considering how much whining we get from level 80's who aren't happy having only 2 whole continents to fly around in."

So to those of you upset that there is no flying in Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms.... would you be happier if they just never created flying mounts in the first place? Or would you rather they had flying mounts in the expansion continents even though there aren't any in the original continents?

This post would be a good way to end this thread.

[Mazhulsage]

Like others have said: There's NO reason they can't have at least one person they can hire that can code this or something. It would be something they could say they're working on, while still having all their "important people" on the "real things"... Even though I have had WAY too many times where Blizzard has had small things screw up and I lose an item/PvP battle/etc out of it... So, their important resources need to go to simple things sometimes too.

[Tort]

I have to agree with the majority here and wonder what the point of flying mounts in Azeroth would be. By the time you get your first flying mount (level 60 in the next patch), you would have theoretically finished most or all of the old world quests and instances, therefore there would be little to no reason to have to fly all over the continents.

The only real traveling high level toons do in the old world is between the major cities, and that can be accomplished much easier with the portals in Shattrath and Dalaran. Flying, even at epic speeds, would be fairly pointless in Azeroth.

Its a different story of course in Outland and Northrend, where you have quests, daily quests, resource gathering, instances, raids, pvp, ect. Flying mounts are nearly a necessity there, and thats why those zones were built from the ground up utilizing flying mounts.

[Laringar]

If the current areas were opened up to flying, the consequence would be that those areas would be locked into their current, not fully developed state. Attempting to make Azeroth flyable for the sake of making it flyable would not result in the high standards we expect from Blizz. And half-assing it would leave it having to be retconned later, which is just jarring when it happens.

Bancduese brings up the point that making Azeroth flyable would lead to new content. Yes, that is correct. However, it would mean a LOT of new content. Open up your map and look at all the zones that aren't accessible. For instance, the huge zone between SW and IF, that the Tram goes under. The area East of the Wetlands. Hyjal. Gilneas. All these would have to be opened up, or artificially walled off. This is not a weekend project for one programmer/artist, or even 5-10 of them. This is a project that 20+ people would have to spend months on to even dent. And in the meantime, that's resources being taken away from modeling Icecrown Citadel, et cetera. As has been said, this comes down to cost/benefit.

If this DOES get done, I'd rather it gets done right. Not by a small team of weekend workers, but by a full dev team, for an expansion perhaps. Blizz has said many times that this is something they'd like to look into, but that it's an extensive project, and they have bigger things on their plate right now. Giving us Ulduar, for instance. This is an expansion-level project, not something for a few people to work on and then slip into a patch.

Lets face it, we all spend a lot more time in Northrend than Azeroth once we hit 80. Being able to fly in Azeroth would be a convenience. A nice one, sure. But I'd rather have new things to raid, than go "Oh, that's what that looks like from the air."

[elsegundo]

i'd rather just have new content that's exactly that... new content. i really dont care for old world stuff and whether we're able to fly through them or not. if blizz does it, great. if not, thats fine too. i have enough on my hands for now. maybe a new expansion will lead us to a totally new, flyable kalimdor and eastern kingdoms. but if not... it doesnt really change my playing experience.

[sardotirion]

I get that people would like to fly their mounts in Azeroth. Hey, let's be honest here, it would be kind of cool. But novelty aside, it's really not that important.

It's easy to look at Blizzard as the behemoth that can afford to do anything. The problem with that line of reasoning is that it's simply an idea. And ideas are not reality. They can lead to reality, certainly, but the practical application of said ideas is very different than simply stating it.

"Blizzard has 11 million players, makes billions of dollars, and you're telling me they can't hire one guy to work on the coding for flying mounts?" I'm not mocking in any way. This is a fair question. But, there are hard, concrete reasons as to why the answer to that question is that they can't simply just hire some random guy to do that coding.

The first reason, and the most obvious, is that the programming that goes into making this content available isn't that simple, even just making flying mounts available with no other additions wouldn't be that simple. And if that's all they did, as was said before, it would lead to an underwhelming addition to the game they spent valuable time on.

Another reason, hiring someone simply for that purpose presents its own set of problems. Remember, this is a person, not a number. Does he lose his job after he's done? How much of the game is he going to be dealing with? Are we hiring a proven professional, or simply a kid out of school? Something tells me, at least in terms of the actual game designers, Blizzard really goes through the processes of examining who they hire, very carefully. They have a standard they made that they have to live up to. They can't afford not to. And hiring one seemingly innocuous programmer for that one purpose can turn very bad if that employee turns out to be less than thrilling at his work. If his mess is really bad, then you have to pull others off their work to fix his mistakes, and then ask the next question; do we hire someone else?

And of course, the economics behind it all. Blizzard makes a lot of money, yes. But that money doesn't get tucked away somewhere in a big, giant, monolithic vault, where the CEO's all bathe in the piles of cash and watch videos of the poor, starving, proletariat begging for mercy. No, that's what governments do with their money. (I kid, I kid.) Business, by and large, spend money to expand said business and attempt to increase their profit by adding better (and more) product. Blizzard is no exception. Everything from the cost of employees, to the cost of the hardware to run a game this big takes up that money. And to keep the quality of that product going, Blizzard very specifically prioritizes what they work on. Flying in Azeroth, not that high on the list. I'd much rather see player housing first.

[clevins]

The bigger thing is that it's NOT A PROGRAMMING ISSUE. It's artwork as well. A ton of art has to be created and that's NOT JUST ONE GUY. Sorry for the caps, but this insistence that they could hire one guy and whip this out but are not doing that because they're cheap is asinine and ignorant.

[Trakamoocow]

You're right it's not a programming issue. There's no difference between flying in outlands and flying in Vanillawowlands.

They had a deadline to meet with Vanillawow, they met it. They then went on to make squillions of dollars for (relatively) a very small outlay on infrastructure/upkeep (they've mentioned this a few times, cbf looking it up).

Check out EvE Online. What Bliz would consider a shoestring budget (200k active players). But the worlds largest, persistent gaming universe. 40k concurrent players. And they're constantly upgrading/looking for new ways to improve their technology. What went from a game barely supporting 100v100 fights (the complexity of even this amount of ships is incredible) to playable at over 1000.

So money is not the issue. Most of the work needed is purely modelling/mapping. Which is done in an editor much like any other map editor you've used. In fact, very very much like them, those are the tools used to develop them. Add in the 3d collision model (also part of it) and some touchup work, hey prestos.

Make it mountain ranges, since 3/4 of everywhere is mountains (much like the real world dot dot dot). Patch over the glaringly horrible 3 terrain join points (which were funny to see). And make it flyable. Makes no sense for it not to be. Much easier on the acheivement whores. Etc.

But moneywise it makes no sense for them to bother, so v0v.

[clevins]

And all for... what? So 80s can preen on mounts? I mean really, what's the actual benefit? Sure, a bit easier to level miningor herbing if you take them up at 80 (or anytime after 60 with 3.2)... but really? They should make the whole of Azeroth flyable because some people might be able to level gathering profs a bit easier?? Or get Explorer a bit easier? Oh and I can see it now... Jan and Maz and all of you would complain that "it's too easy to get achievements now!!! I had to run the old world and ride on LAND!!! Waaah...."

Oh hold it... hmm. Now which way do you want it? Nothing changes to make life easier (I'm thinking of the QQ in the 3.2 mount change thread from some of the same people who want Azeroth flyable)? Or the things that you want should change... but no others?

[Janfader]

And all for... what? So 80s can preen on mounts? I mean really, what's the actual benefit? Sure, a bit easier to level miningor herbing if you take them up at 80 (or anytime after 60 with 3.2)... but really? They should make the whole of Azeroth flyable because some people might be able to level gathering profs a bit easier?? Or get Explorer a bit easier? Oh and I can see it now... Jan and Maz and all of you would complain that "it's too easy to get achievements now!!! I had to run the old world and ride on LAND!!! Waaah...."

Oh hold it... hmm. Now which way do you want it? Nothing changes to make life easier (I'm thinking of the QQ in the 3.2 mount change thread from some of the same people who want Azeroth flyable)? Or the things that you want should change... but no others?


lol

Think of it as the "wow" factor :thumbsup: Think two years from now reviving this thread had Blizzard made an exceptional expansion allowing us to fly in Azeroth with all sort of changes. Hate to tell you "I told you so?"

Other gaming corps would bow to Blizzard as well for taking the time to remap/artwork whatever the first world (old content) to new playable (flyable) areas. Holy hell what "blizzard actually listened to their customer's comments?"

Blizzard should be well aware of two thing right now. The world economy is poor and the gaming industry is the only thing (other then the movie industry) making cash over fist. Time to expand? Time to hire people - seeing there is an abundace of computer literate people now with all kinds of skill sets.

Come on, you can't agrue it unless its coming from a actual Blizzard employee.

[NegativeBeef]

Flying over Azeroth is NOT new content. It's artwork. There's no content there unless you can interact with it. Let's not distort the terms to mean something it doesn't. Content = quests, instances and the supporting stuff like mobs, towns etc. Mudsprocket in Dustwallow was new content. Being able to fly over Dustwallow is not.

And why does anyone care about flying in the old content? What, you want to get to Stonetalon faster? Seriously, what the hell is the attraction? I never go to the old world aside from occasional trips to the capital cities. There's simply no reason for anyone over 70 to spend time in old Azeroth. Kara was the last thing there and no 80 cares about it.

Face it, most of the whining about flying in Azeroth comes down to "I want to impress lowbies with my cool mount." You don't go there now, and after flying around a bit to see what it was like, you'd never go back to the old world. It's a waste of time. If you blocked off places like they do BT you'd have people whine about THAT. Someone would insist that they NEED to fly to Mauradon and having Desolace blocked was UNFAIR....

In other news, MOVE ON. You have all of Outland and Northrend in which you can fly - quit pretending that the old world was the pinnacle for everything WoW.

Blizzard can simply release new contents in Azeroth that would require a fly mount to get to. It gives players a reason to go back to the old world again.

[Maticus]

Ok, I get nervous when Blizzard start commenting on things that people have always asked for. Maybe it doesn't mean anything, but you never know.

Nethaera just said this:

The old world was not designed to support flying (this is a technical issue currently, not an unwillingness to allow this on our part) and by having the level requirement for flying, it allows us to set a pace at which we feel content should be accessed. As you can see by the recent mount changes, this could be readdressed at a future point in time.

We're Blizzard, of course this is brought up in conversation and more. We're always taking a look at different aspects of the game and trying to find a way to improve upon the experiences that players get to have within it. We have a lot of ideas and things we'd love to do. It always comes down to prioritizing those things, looking at the larger picture, cherry picking the best ideas and finding ways to make them happen. We are by no means short on ideas for the future nor are we blind to what topics come up from the community in regard to, "wouldn't it be cool if." It's what drives us on.

[prion]

that seems to imply that when they do it we'll have flyers at level 40 :tongue:

but the rest of the post is nothing different from what they've been saying all along.

[rgirty]

Flying in azeroth = less time sink.

Blizzard is more about time sink and on the surface removing things from the game that you don't enjoy.

For example, making people think they enjoy achievements but not accurately finding a way to give you credit for doing all those old instances (unless you are one of those people who keep nearly every piece of loot).

So now, we have people clogging up the instance servers knocking out old world instance achievements which in reality they have already completed many times over (this is where blizzard makes $ by forcing you to do the same things over and over with possibly only a slight variation AKA much like hard modes)

They don't see running around on a ground mount in the old world as an issue, in fact to make leveling an alt look more attractive, new boa items and mounts at lower levels are coming into the game as well as questing enhancements so that yet AGAIN blizz can continue to reap the rewards of the old world content paying big $ but requiring very little to maintain.

Same goes for limiting XP, instead of making classic servers just give all those people who want to skin corehounds in molten chore for the rest of their gaming lives the option to turn it off.

Blizzard, the masters of allowing you to repeat the same content repeatedly and enjoy it.

Why else would they put conquest emblems in normal dungeons, and triumph emblems on the daily dungeons? Answer? So that people will continue to recycle this content.

Flying mounts would simply push people into northrend faster, thus clearing the latest content faster which would require blizzard to actually develop new pve raid content.

I predict the next dungeon after 3.2 will be a 1 man, 2 man, 3 man, 5 man, 10 man, 20 man, 25 man normal/semi-hard/hard/hardcore level dungeon with 28 separate lockout options providing a different tree of achievements and hard modes for each boss on each version however offering the same exact graphic content and experience. Thus you will need to do the same content 100 different ways. Providing blizzard the best ROI possible on any future dungeons created.

Maybe it'll be ulduar 3.3 and just change some of the boss behavior.... better yet, just move the sunwell and give it a new loot table.

[zXz]

2. When you go and help your low level guildies doing a instance run... This explains everything. 7 minute FP from IF to Chillwind Point. 12 minute FP from Darn to Tanaris. Then there's the land mount riding after the landing.why not take the portal from Dal to the caverns of time and then mount on your land mount and travel north? seems faster then flying on your faster mount from either of the towns you mentioned above.

[Janfader]

why not take the portal from Dal to the caverns of time and then mount on your land mount and travel north? seems faster then flying on your faster mount from either of the towns you mentioned above.

Yeah for sure that's a great idea. I always forget about that portal. Some FPs for alliance as to horde simply don't offer a quick time from place to place i.e. Alliance trying to help a guildie run SM. IF to Chilliwind point as an example.

Another thing a new guild member mentioned which was exceptional idea is: why not remove the level requirements on the summoning stone and just have one person able to summon as well as per Lock ability?

If Blizzard seeks to speed up the game content etc... this is a very variable option and makes sense IMO.

Even allow for mage to port to all Flight Points that the mage has a good rep with. >appear at the FP guy<

If new players to the game are coming up with speedier thoughts on how WoW can be improved... well, thats something isn't it?
:thumbsup:

[Aerath]

Improved or sped up?

Instances are there, essentially, to enjoy as an on-level group. Having a level 80 bust your sorry behind through does nothing to actually learn the instance and see what's happening when you play in a group. I can fully understand not wanting to drag alt no. 16 through Maraudon yet again, but for a first timer, getting dragged through destroys the actual experience.

If you really want to speed things up, just ask for an epic geared level 80.

[Janfader]

Improved or sped up?

Instances are there, essentially, to enjoy as an on-level group. Having a level 80 bust your sorry behind through does nothing to actually learn the instance and see what's happening when you play in a group. I can fully understand not wanting to drag alt no. 16 through Maraudon yet again, but for a first timer, getting dragged through destroys the actual experience.

If you really want to speed things up, just ask for an epic geared level 80.

I strongly disagree Aerath. We have alts to level up for many reasons. I also teach the low level instances to fellow officers so that I don't have to keep my instance runs at 25 per week, and many officers have low level toons.

I learnt instances well enough when I had help from a high level. :wink:

Now... it took me 50-60 times to learn ST... that was because its a touhg place to get around. Maraduan (sp) is another hate instance, but ran it a lot and know it well now. Where am I going with this? You need expeirenced players to help on a run for first timers :grin:

[Aerath]

I completely disagree. Remember the stairs event in ZF? Where's the fun of having a level 80 pulling all the trolls and killing them, then waiting for another 2 minutes on respawns?

All it does is give the lowby some fast xp and maybe a couple blues. It shows them nothing about the instance as it should be.

[Janfader]

I completely disagree. Remember the stairs event in ZF? Where's the fun of having a level 80 pulling all the trolls and killing them, then waiting for another 2 minutes on respawns?

All it does is give the lowby some fast xp and maybe a couple blues. It shows them nothing about the instance as it should be.

Where are you going to find a group quick for that? Let alone any other instance in Azeroth? Hell even Ol's. It is very rare now to get a solid group to run an instance in a short time frame for lower levelled instances.

You ask anyone here that has played the game for awhile as they would rather watch paint dry then PUG an old instance. I bet most of us long time players would want a high level to run you through rather to bath in aganoy.

I still get my guild mates to do their job when I run them.

Rogue in the group = CC (learn how to do it).
Healers types = keep me healed etc..
Locks = learn to succumb (charm) etc...
Etc, Etc, Etc,

[Aerath]

I bet most of us long time players would want a high level to run you through rather to bath in aganoy.

Could you attempt to read what I'm saying? I wasn't talking about long time players. I'm talking about new players.

[Shellar]

why not remove the level requirements on the summoning stone and just have one person able to summon as well as per Lock ability?
I fully support this idea.

[clevins]

There are 2 issues here. One is getting to defined places like instances swiftly (ZF, Mauradon, etc). That's solvable without flying in Azeroth either by single person summoning and no level requirements on the stones or by portals to (or close to) the instances or both.

If you have that, you don't really need flight in Azeroth to help alts clear an instance etc. Why, then allow flight? Or rather why take on the work absent that reason? The only reason I can see is epic flying at levels significantly less than 60... you're still in Azeroth, you are questing etc... and you can fly at epic speeds. With ground epics at 40 now, anything less isn't that big of an advantage and at 60+ you're done with old Azeroth.

[rgirty]

On a side note, I have stated for some time now that flights taken from flight masters should behave just like boat rides.

A short loading screen, and then you arrive at the destination. I always found it quite odd that it takes as long if not longer to fly from IF to SW than it does to take a boat to an entirely different continent.

[clevins]

On a side note, I have stated for some time now that flights taken from flight masters should behave just like boat rides.

A short loading screen, and then you arrive at the destination. I always found it quite odd that it takes as long if not longer to fly from IF to SW than it does to take a boat to an entirely different continent.

They did that with the Isle and IF... it's nice. But I think they wanted (and still want given how Northrend works) to give you a feel for the scale of the world. I mean even as it is we fly across an entire continent in minutes. Now, I'm not asking it to be realistic and take hours, but flying across the US is 5-6 hours... London to Edinburgh is an hour or a bit less. And it only takes a few minutes to cross a continent in WoW. Make it too small and it's trivialized. That sense of scale would go away if everything was an instant portal. The solution, of course, is to use your idea for max level toons - one of the perks of being max level is instant travel. Or, perhaps, max level for the world... 60 in old Azeroth, 70 in Azeroth and Outland. I honestly don't mind most of the travel times - I find it relaxing to not make everything in a game a rush task...

[rgirty]

They did that with the Isle and IF... it's nice. But I think they wanted (and still want given how Northrend works) to give you a feel for the scale of the world. I mean even as it is we fly across an entire continent in minutes. Now, I'm not asking it to be realistic and take hours, but flying across the US is 5-6 hours... London to Edinburgh is an hour or a bit less. And it only takes a few minutes to cross a continent in WoW. Make it too small and it's trivialized. That sense of scale would go away if everything was an instant portal. The solution, of course, is to use your idea for max level toons - one of the perks of being max level is instant travel. Or, perhaps, max level for the world... 60 in old Azeroth, 70 in Azeroth and Outland. I honestly don't mind most of the travel times - I find it relaxing to not make everything in a game a rush task...

Flying across northrend looking at snow on the ground for the 100th time is by no means exciting.

If there more scenic areas I would agree. But more snow, and look... more snow.

I'm just not a fan of it personally but to each their own.

[Janfader]

There are 2 issues here. One is getting to defined places like instances swiftly (ZF, Mauradon, etc). That's solvable without flying in Azeroth either by single person summoning and no level requirements on the stones or by portals to (or close to) the instances or both.

If you have that, you don't really need flight in Azeroth to help alts clear an instance etc. Why, then allow flight? Or rather why take on the work absent that reason? The only reason I can see is epic flying at levels significantly less than 60... you're still in Azeroth, you are questing etc... and you can fly at epic speeds. With ground epics at 40 now, anything less isn't that big of an advantage and at 60+ you're done with old Azeroth.

Clevins I think you just solved everything wrong with Azeroth. To save Blizzard from remapping/artwork this makes the above very viable. I really really like this idea!!

Thanks Shellar for agreeing too.

If a mage can port one person, why couldn't a lock summon another without having the aid of one other let alone two others??? Just increase the regeant mat or gylphs etc... Would make Locks epic again.

I am liking where Blizzard is going with there game. :thumbsup: