Paid Race Changes?

[Maticus]

Last week, Crygil made a post on the official forums about paid race changes, and why Blizzard doesn't want to bring it in right now.

Why no race changes? It seems like a reasonable question. I mean, we allow character re-customization where you can change your sex, right? We sure do, but we have good reasons for not supporting race changes, at this point in time.

Here are just a few of the reasons:

1) Critical Mass: People may decided that any given class/race combo is superior to other combination of that same class. Or people may decide that any given race is no longer worth sticking with due to some change we make to some racial abilities. This naturally leads to flavor of the month races. This is something we want to avoid.

2) Race Restrictions: All races are given a certain set of restrictions for both lore and balance purposes. There would be some serious investment involved in making certain that this system didn't allow any exploitation of that system.

3) Future Content: Things change, some would say the only thing that stays the same is change and that is certainly true for World of Warcraft. If we allowed race changes it could negatively/adversely impact things we haven't even thought of yet.

That said, it's not in the cards right now. Maybe someday we'll reverse our opinion on this, but it's likely to be a while. .

After the huge popularity of gender/hairstyle/name changes with characters, it's not surprising players also want to be able to change their race and in some cases, even faction.

But would it really mess up the game to allow change of race? I'm in no doubt that faction change would be a bad idea - there would be hardly any Alliance left - but what could be so bad about race change? Just remove any quest items a player earned as a particular race and it's done isn't it? Are the race 'buffs' really that important? Give your thoughts.

[semiiramiis]

After the huge popularity of gender/hairstyle/name changes with characters, it's not surprising players also want to be able to change their race and in some cases, even faction.

But would it really mess up the game to allow change of race? I'm in no doubt that faction change would be a bad idea - there would be hardly any Alliance left - but what could be so bad about race change? Just remove any quest items a player earned as a particular race and it's done isn't it? Are the race 'buffs' really that important? Give your thoughts.


My thoughts? I believe that the character redesign idea was appallingly stupid, and I believe that race change is also. The barber shop was one thing, I wholeheartedly agree that you should be able to change your character's appearance in any way that an actual person can, but the rest? Puhleaze. Or if they were bound and determined to do it, hey, some sort of protracted quest line with some snide and evil master of the morphing (and the actual money) would have set better with me than this silliness. I do realize that my view of my toons as a little more than game avatars is perhaps a little immersive and such, but hey /shrug... that's why I write. But in my eyes, you made a choice. Stick with it, or reroll.

[Shellar]

One of the core ideas of WoW's design philosophy is the acceptance of the fact that, sometimes, people make mistakes or change their minds.

Hence, the ability to respec, dualspec, transfer to another realm, replace gems, switch glyphs, buy back items from vendors, pick new professional specializations, unlearn professions entirely, regain lost reputations, and even ask GMs to restore deleted characters.

For those who loathe such options, there are plenty of games that favor a more permanent approach to players' choices, and are less forgiving to mistakes. However, it is no coincidence that such games tend to have far fewer players than WoW does.

That said, it's not in the cards right now. Maybe someday we'll reverse our opinion on this, but it's likely to be a while.

That's exactly what they said about PvE-PvP transfers several years ago. :smiley:

Personally, I wouldn't mind the ability to play a Tauren Paladin or an Undead Druid (with WPL plagued grizzly as bear form and vulture as flight form).

[prion]

the idea of different races and classes is THE core component of an RPG.

[Lothaer]

i just want to be able to put tattoos on my characters or scars :D

[Maticus]

Tattoos would be very awesome, I second this idea.

But as far as race changes go, both semiiramiis and Shellar made some very good, although completely opposing, arguments.

Making every class available to every race would raise problems though. For instance, the Druid skins; it's taken Blizzard this long to upgrade the skins for 2 races - can you imagine how long it would take them to make skins for all the other races? :P

[Valas Azuviir]

a) Leads to race/class combo's which are not allowed, is going to lead to even more QQ, and there's enough of that already.

b) It's probably more than just a few quest items, example, BE have access to some early level quests in their newbie zone that the other Hordies don't get even if they go there.

This subsequently effects the DB a whole lot more than just a let's switch gender.

How so? Achievements for one thing. Things are logged, means that they'd have to start tinkering with stuff like that as well, to keep everything aboveboard.

To me, it's just another one of those things that doesn't justify the amount of resources required to pull it off.

[semiiramiis]

i just want to be able to put tattoos on my characters or scars :D

Oh, yeah. I want my belf dk to have a chunk missing from one of those uncovered, unprotected, and massively protruding ears, kind of like a scrappy little alley cat.

[Alaris Mystique]

Cosmetic changes are always fine... they don't affect anyone.

Race is so tied to certain abilities and quests and etc, that suddenly being able to change race will introduce all kinds of unforseen... *changes*... I don't say problems, because what this changes may be bonuses for some, problematic for others.

Personally, if I'd invest so much time getting characters to level 70-80, I would really appreciate being able to change race and allegiance. Changing allegiance lets me try the other side of things without needing to level a whole new character. Plus it lets me transfer items between characters of different allegiances. Changing race is a guarantee that I can further re-customize looks etc later on, thus adds a layer of long-term enjoyment to an already long-term character.

Getting my blood elf to level 43 or so, I don't really want to restart it, but I also figured out that I wasn't too happy with the frail look of the race. Too skinny, to unsecure on its feet. It's not a big deal, but it's enough of a big deal that I'd consider paying to change race.

But then again, I much prefer the *change-as-you-want* system implemented in many games... I don't subscribe to the *stick with it or reroll* opinion. I certainly didn't stick with the same haircut since birth, and I have also aged. I don't understand how even a serious RPer could argue that looks are static, or that you can't re-train your talents.

As for the RP perspective of race change... well... Mages can easily turn just about anyone into a sheep. Make sense of that! And what, people are just born undead?

[Janfader]

Tattoos would be very awesome, I second this idea.

But as far as race changes go, both semiiramiis and Shellar made some very good, although completely opposing, arguments.

Making every class available to every race would raise problems though. For instance, the Druid skins; it's taken Blizzard this long to upgrade the skins for 2 races - can you imagine how long it would take them to make skins for all the other races? :P

You think Blizzard has spent much time on druid skins???? Please.

I think what Blizzard is doing is this: Slowly introduce changes that will appeal the new and the old WoW players to a certain degree to keep them playing longer with the "awe" factor... but we know that awe factor disappears after awhile.

Blizzard can do anything with the game. They have the staff for it and the reputation for it. Undead Druid FTW IMO. Why not make all race able to choos all classes? Don't give me the WoW lore. I think by now we could argue a Undead female could have mated with a Cow. :) I mean Tauren.

Hell... have highbryds races.

The game can on and on and it should. I tried to create a game similar to WoW with these options but can't muster the money or resources not to mention copy rights...

WoW should be the "wow" factor and the level for all other MMORGPs. IT must maintain being #1 for reason like above. Blizzard has to be willing to listen to their customers especially long time players.

Peace

[semiiramiis]

Cosmetic changes are always fine... they don't affect anyone.

Race is so tied to certain abilities and quests and etc, that suddenly being able to change race will introduce all kinds of unforseen... *changes*... I don't say problems, because what this changes may be bonuses for some, problematic for others.

Personally, if I'd invest so much time getting characters to level 70-80, I would really appreciate being able to change race and allegiance. Changing allegiance lets me try the other side of things without needing to level a whole new character. Plus it lets me transfer items between characters of different allegiances. Changing race is a guarantee that I can further re-customize looks etc later on, thus adds a layer of long-term enjoyment to an already long-term character.

Getting my blood elf to level 43 or so, I don't really want to restart it, but I also figured out that I wasn't too happy with the frail look of the race. Too skinny, to unsecure on its feet. It's not a big deal, but it's enough of a big deal that I'd consider paying to change race.

But then again, I much prefer the *change-as-you-want* system implemented in many games... I don't subscribe to the *stick with it or reroll* opinion. I certainly didn't stick with the same haircut since birth, and I have also aged. I don't understand how even a serious RPer could argue that looks are static, or that you can't re-train your talents.

As for the RP perspective of race change... well... Mages can easily turn just about anyone into a sheep. Make sense of that! And what, people are just born undead?

I touched on several of these points. All of my toons were revamped to make them look more "mature" when the option became available. I wholeheartedly agree with barbershop... as I stated. My threesome now looks a little worse for the wear, less sparkly, hair in place and clean.

And I did say I prefered the idea of some sort of ingame reason for a change like this...a quest chain to convince the mage doing the changes for you to actually DO it.

What I have issues with is such a fundamental change to what really are friends of mine. Damaris is currently three years old. It seems like a betrayal, kind of like telling my long beloved spouse that... what they've been for the past time is not good enough. Sure, I don't look the same as I have my whole life, but I am still the same short, blonde, hazel eyed woman my husband married all those years ago. It's not a lack of rp ability at work here, it's an excess of it. I don't want them to look static. I'd kill to see my toons portrayed as I "see" them... (Wow + Oblivion engine/character customization= faint) I'd die to see something along the lines of Fable, where your character's exterior changed based on decisions you make in game. But Damaris will always be what she was born...a tauren female.

[clevins]

What Shellar's post misses is that most of the things listed feel natural to change. Gems? You can pry one out of the socket and put in another. Enchants the same way as well as glyphs. Specs? People can learn different skills (though the idea you forget previous skills is a bit odd). Even gender change has a real world analog. But race? We're not really talking race here... we're talking species. You're not changing skin color and some cosmetic features you're talking about something very basic and it feels different. Of course it would be easy technically to swap character models and the rest of the considerations seem fairly trivial, but from an immersion standpoint having a Gnome become a Night Elf feels... disjointed.

And if you can take a Gnome and become a Night Elf, then why NOT allow that Gnome to become a Tauren? Faction changes (without the race change) seems much more in concert with the game. Every side has traitors... why NOT allow a switch? You'd have to make the mechanics non-trivial but I can see that being very useful. Your old friends don't play anymore and some new friends would love you to jon them on another server but they're another faction. Now you have to reroll or go DK... but if you could change faction then server transfer? Hmmm...

[Janfader]

What Shellar's post misses is that most of the things listed feel natural to change. Gems? You can pry one out of the socket and put in another. Enchants the same way as well as glyphs. Specs? People can learn different skills (though the idea you forget previous skills is a bit odd). Even gender change has a real world analog. But race? We're not really talking race here... we're talking species. You're not changing skin color and some cosmetic features you're talking about something very basic and it feels different. Of course it would be easy technically to swap character models and the rest of the considerations seem fairly trivial, but from an immersion standpoint having a Gnome become a Night Elf feels... disjointed.

And if you can take a Gnome and become a Night Elf, then why NOT allow that Gnome to become a Tauren? Faction changes (without the race change) seems much more in concert with the game. Every side has traitors... why NOT allow a switch? You'd have to make the mechanics non-trivial but I can see that being very useful. Your old friends don't play anymore and some new friends would love you to jon them on another server but they're another faction. Now you have to reroll or go DK... but if you could change faction then server transfer? Hmmm...

Now the traitor thing is very cool! And makes sense... just think back to the lore throughout the game.

How would Blizzard even out the #'s though? Or do they even do that now?

[clevins]

People can choose either side now. Some people choose Horde, some choose Alliance. I honestly don't think everyone would go Horde if this happened. Some would, some Horde would go Alliance. You could set per-server caps if you wanted to manage it, but I doubt most people would do this. It means leaving behind your guild, your friends, everyone... just like a real traitor must. So unless you knew people on the other faction.... you'd be alone and have to build new relationships. Just like a real traitor.

Of course... are you a traitor? Or a spy? :)

[Shellar]

What Shellar's post misses is that most of the things listed feel natural to change. Gems? You can pry one out of the socket and put in another. Enchants the same way as well as glyphs. Specs? People can learn different skills (though the idea you forget previous skills is a bit odd). Even gender change has a real world analog. But race? We're not really talking race here... we're talking species. You're not changing skin color and some cosmetic features you're talking about something very basic and it feels different.
Different for us, maybe, but that's probably because we live in a world where magic is the stuff of fantasy and legend, rather than a part of everyday life. For the denizens of Azeroth, transformation into another species, while rare, is not entirely impossible or inconceivable.

Knowing Blizzard, if they every get around to implementing paid race changes, they'll explain it as "the new breakthrough of gnomish/goblin engineering". (Hell, my Paladin already occasionally changes race when his Area 52 transporter malfunctions, so all he needs to do is figure out how to make this effect stable and repeatable...)

[rgirty]

Last week, Crygil made a post on the official forums about paid race changes, and why Blizzard doesn't want to bring it in right now.

Why no race changes? It seems like a reasonable question. I mean, we allow character re-customization where you can change your sex, right? We sure do, but we have good reasons for not supporting race changes, at this point in time.

Here are just a few of the reasons:

1) Critical Mass: People may decided that any given class/race combo is superior to other combination of that same class. Or people may decide that any given race is no longer worth sticking with due to some change we make to some racial abilities. This naturally leads to flavor of the month races. This is something we want to avoid.

2) Race Restrictions: All races are given a certain set of restrictions for both lore and balance purposes. There would be some serious investment involved in making certain that this system didn't allow any exploitation of that system.

3) Future Content: Things change, some would say the only thing that stays the same is change and that is certainly true for World of Warcraft. If we allowed race changes it could negatively/adversely impact things we haven't even thought of yet.

That said, it's not in the cards right now. Maybe someday we'll reverse our opinion on this, but it's likely to be a while. .

After the huge popularity of gender/hairstyle/name changes with characters, it's not surprising players also want to be able to change their race and in some cases, even faction.

But would it really mess up the game to allow change of race? I'm in no doubt that faction change would be a bad idea - there would be hardly any Alliance left - but what could be so bad about race change? Just remove any quest items a player earned as a particular race and it's done isn't it? Are the race 'buffs' really that important? Give your thoughts.

Why would you say if there were race changes there would hardly be any alliance left?

I would literally set fire to my computer before I played 15 seconds of any horde race/class.

I would change race as fast as humanly possible if allowed, and I think race changes should be allowed.

[Maticus]

Why would you say if there were race changes there would hardly be any alliance left?

I would literally set fire to my computer before I played 15 seconds of any horde race/class.

I would change race as fast as humanly possible if allowed, and I think race changes should be allowed.

Hehe, well it just seems on the realms I frequent that everyone has Horde envy, especially in PvP. Isn't it supposed to be more cool to play Horde anyway? :wink:

I'm not saying I would re-roll Horde of course, I like playing 'boring' humans mostly :)

I would change race on one or two of my characters (my lvl 47 Gnome Warlock springs to mind), though not ones I'm particularly attached to. When I started playing WoW, all my characters were male for some reason, but I make female chars more often than not now. I've paid to change a couple of my high level chars over to females, but I wouldn't ever change my main character or my second fave, I just couldn't do it. Let alone change their race. I would feel like I'm playing a stranger, a bit like Semiiramiis said.

[det]

Okay, even if a race change was allowed, restrictions would surely apply.

No Orc Paladins, no Gnome druids etc.

So race changes are only possible in a tight window. Can't make my UD lock a troll lock....

[semiiramiis]

Why would you say if there were race changes there would hardly be any alliance left?

I would literally set fire to my computer before I played 15 seconds of any horde race/class.



/comfort. /hug /love
/y FOR THE HORDE!!!!!!!!!

[det]

I would literally set fire to my computer before I played 15 seconds of any horde race/class.



Funny, I think that of Alliance :)

Seriously though..I caved in and have a lv 62 Draenei huntress...sort of the only Alliance character I can stand. Maybe a female human warlock or a female NE if it came to that...but gnomes, dwarves and the males of the other races....yukk

[semiiramiis]

Funny, I think that of Alliance :)

Seriously though..I caved in and have a lv 62 Draenei huntress...sort of the only Alliance character I can stand. Maybe a female human warlock or a female NE if it came to that...but gnomes, dwarves and the males of the other races....yukk

I have a draenei. Actually, I find both genders of them appealing. And yes, it's the only ally character I have. The rest of them...no...don't get me started. It causes weird silences on vent when my (alliance) husband's guild realizes I'm horde. The hilarity that ensued after someone got mad at him for calling me a horde cow... (Of course, they also managed to not hear the "horde" quite right as well) was fun. He still calls me cow. And his guild still gets mad. Even though they've been told (by me!) that I have no issue being called a cow.
So. Yeah. For the Horde, and the might of the Shu'halo.

And yes. I have been made aware, numerous times, of the irony of my deeply ingrained Horde sentiment. In all of the stuff I've written, the vast majority of it is alliance based.

[ptarn]

I really don't think race changes are a good idea due to the - already mentioned - inherent problems you'd encounter when your character is a Tauren Druid and you would like to become an Orc. You would be forced to choose another class (because I'm REALLY not okay with mangling the lore to such an extent that any race could become a druid) and then you would effectively be better off with starting a new toon, since you would somehow have to relearn all the skills/talents that come with that new class.

I draw the line at race changes, even if you take into account the fact that it's a fantasy game. Blizzard has already done some things to their own lore that I wouldn't have dreamed of, but they always had a good explanation for it and how it fit into the lore. But changing race... No! I'd rather see the option of changing sides, with Taurens joining the Alliance (on the Night Elf side) or Alliance peeps joining with Hordes. That would add an extra dimension to the game. But race? And indeed, it's not just RACE, it's SPECIES.

I agree with semi on this: My Tauren druid female is a Tauren druid female and will always be a Tauren druid female. She's four years old and to change that would be to change a part of me, even though that may sound strange.

[Valas Azuviir]

http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs43/f/2009/085/a/4/Lol_Lore_by_ackanime.jpg

That's what I think of, when I see folks crowing about disallowed race/class combo's. Every DM worth his/her salt will know that sometimes you have to tell your players, no.

Lest things turn into a Monty Haul. Because players will try to find the very edge of the rules or even go beyond it to make things work for them and to hell with how it effects the overall campaign. Thereby forgetting, that said campaign is what will provide the entertainment for the long run, as opposed to the quick and easy God-mode that some folks crave, and which they soon will begin to find tiring as well, as things become too easy.

And as for the excuse of magic can do it. *sigh* Even High Magic worlds like the Realms, where the Gods themselves have been known to walk the planet, don't have thousands of folks transmogrified into different species. And that's what you'd end up with. Because everyone wants to be unique. Everyone wants to be the One, the Neo.

Well, there can only be one Neo, not a thousand or more inside of the Matrix. And for some reason folks don't seem willing to grasp that the idea of the One, which works perfectly in a single player game, just can't work all that well in an MMO, because it's precisely massive multiplayer.

You can have a server first, you can have a faction first. But you can't be the single person in existence to pull off the close to impossible, and than remain the sole and single person to have done so. Why not? QQ.

That's why, constant and incessant QQ'ing. Whether it be when you get your mount, whether or not you can fly somewhere, whether or not you'll be the one looting Arthas for Frostmourne etc etc etc.

And it's said QQ'ing which in the end will most likely destroy the game, as it warps into something beyond recognition and loses that something that keeps folks hooked.

[clevins]

And it's said QQ'ing which in the end will most likely destroy the game, as it warps into something beyond recognition and loses that something that keeps folks hooked.

Only if they give in to it. People mistake causality sometimes, but I don't think Blizzard does give into QQing as a matter of course. However, sometimes people QQ about something that's a real issue. Blizzard fixes it because the issue is real, but it's taken that they fixed it because of the QQ.

The flip side of perfectly consistent lore is stasis. The world never changes, we don't learn anything new... and the game dies because the original lore didn't define some things (and define 'original' for me - why are things in WoW not as valid as the RTS lore?).

Shellar's 'it's magic' excuse is just that - and excuse. If you allow that, then anything is allowable.

PS: on the issue of races mixing classes up... you could force a class change but then you'd have to have people learn the new class. One way to do that would be to set them to, say, level 65 or so with that many talent points. Tauren wants to be an Orc? Ok, but you can't be a druid, pick one of these classes. And your level will be set to the cap minus, oh, 15 and you get good blue gear but everything you have goes away. There are other ways it could be done... but it shouldn't be done at all. If you REALLY want this, reroll. What people want, though, is the outcome of rerolling and relevelling without the work.

[Valas Azuviir]

The flip side of perfectly consistent lore is stasis. The world never changes, we don't learn anything new... and the game dies because the original lore didn't define some things.


This is a mistake that's often made actually. Being consistent doesn't mean stasis, it means that things make sense when one takes into account previous occurrences..

Did Middle Earth stay the same after Frodo dropped the One Ring into Mt. Doom?

Nope, it changed, the Third Age came to an end, the Elves went to the West in massive numbers and the Age of Man truly started.

So one couldn't suddenly start a story on how an Elven Ring of Power was found and started causing all sorts of havoc as it had been corrupted by Sauron before his demise, considering there were only three Elven Rings of power in the first place, and with him not having had a hand in their forging at all.

Now one could start a story on a Dwarven Ring of Power having been recovered, seeing how Sauron managed to retrieve 3, with the other 4 having been destroyed by dragon fire.

And possibly one could make a story about the Human Ring of Power born by the Witch King, but the remaining 8 wouldn't work, seeing how they perished in the firestorm caused by an erupting Mt. Doom.

But to bring it back to WoW.
Adding the Draenei? Not that big of a deal, Orcs and Ogres were already aliens to Azeroth anyway. And the notion of a magical vessel flowing through space of dimensions also has prior precedence with both the notion of Spelljamming and the Ships used to go through the Astral Plane, or even the Skyships of Mystara or the floating Citadels from Krynn. Heck, the Necropolis' used by the Scourge are another example of the same magical "science".

Massive transmogrification of thousands of being into other races on the other hand. No such precedence, not even the plague which created the Forsaken would serve as a model, seeing how that mainly effected humans and a few scattered high elves here and there. And even then it remade them Forsaken. And it didn't turn Mark into a Forsaken, Jenny into a Ghoul, Bob into an Abomination whereas Sheila got turned into a Banshee etc etc.

[Janfader]

This is a mistake that's often made actually. Being consistent doesn't mean stasis, it means that things make sense when one takes into account previous occurrences..

Did Middle Earth stay the same after Frodo dropped the One Ring into Mt. Doom?

Nope, it changed, the Third Age came to an end, the Elves went to the West in massive numbers and the Age of Man truly started.

So one couldn't suddenly start a story on how an Elven Ring of Power was found and started causing all sorts of havoc as it had been corrupted by Sauron before his demise, considering there were only three Elven Rings of power in the first place, and with him not having had a hand in their forging at all.

Now one could start a story on a Dwarven Ring of Power having been recovered, seeing how Sauron managed to retrieve 3, with the other 4 having been destroyed by dragon fire.

And possibly one could make a story about the Human Ring of Power born by the Witch King, but the remaining 8 wouldn't work, seeing how they perished in the firestorm caused by an erupting Mt. Doom.

But to bring it back to WoW.
Adding the Draenei? Not that big of a deal, Orcs and Ogres were already aliens to Azeroth anyway. And the notion of a magical vessel flowing through space of dimensions also has prior precedence with both the notion of Spelljamming and the Ships used to go through the Astral Plane, or even the Skyships of Mystara or the floating Citadels from Krynn. Heck, the Necropolis' used by the Scourge are another example of the same magical "science".

Massive transmogrification of thousands of being into other races on the other hand. No such precedence, not even the plague which created the Forsaken would serve as a model, seeing how that mainly effected humans and a few scattered high elves here and there. And even then it remade them Forsaken. And it didn't turn Mark into a Forsaken, Jenny into a Ghoul, Bob into an Abomination whereas Sheila got turned into a Banshee etc etc.

My Brian hurts trying to think of all this.:ponder:

So your saying your ok with a racial change?:laughing: Maybe I'm way off...

I still like the traitor idea and makes much more sense than this racial change...

Goblins ftw IMO. Bring them in with nuetral alliances to Alliance and Horde and have them pick a side (if any). So much Blizzard can do with this. Horde, need small kinds on their side!!! Damn Dwarves and Gnomes ftl.

[Shellar]

Massive transmogrification of thousands of being into other races on the other hand. No such precedence, not even the plague which created the Forsaken would serve as a model, seeing how that mainly effected humans and a few scattered high elves here and there. And even then it remade them Forsaken. And it didn't turn Mark into a Forsaken, Jenny into a Ghoul, Bob into an Abomination whereas Sheila got turned into a Banshee etc etc.

I admit that I don't quite buy into the 'massive scale' interpretation. Instead, I prefer to translate the use of such paid character services (such as re-customization or realm transfers) as occasional magical/engineering accidents that happened to certain individuals, rather than large-scale world-changing events.

Otherwise, we'd have to conclude that Azeroth is a Kafkaesque place, currently populated by 11 million anonymous hermaphrodite extraplanar chameleons, who can change their name, gender, skin color, physical appearance (including regrowing lost jaws!) and world of residence whenever they feel like it.

[Wintrow]

Sounds like a game full of druids IMO :tongue:

[Froggelet]

Sounds like a game full of druids IMO :tongue:

I'd like racial changes. Never realised before I got into the game just how uggggggleeee female Dwarves are or how much those ears on Night Elves bother me.

[semiiramiis]

I'd like racial changes. Never realised before I got into the game just how uggggggleeee female Dwarves are or how much those ears on Night Elves bother me.

Lol. Honestly, I consider most of the toon options in this game uggggleeee. My list of not ugly is much shorter than my list of fuglies.

[Eido]

TBH, I have not read the full thread but I will chuck my 2 pence in:

Hairstyle changes - OK, acceptable and a good idea
Facial features changes - yeah I would like that - perhaps some sort of aging as levels progress
Class spec changes - not so comfortable with it but can see the upsides and the downsides and, with all acknowledgement to the 'its fantasy' brigade, there is some scope within the bounds of realistic credibility to see how acquiring a new skill set is feasible.
Class changes - Not unless the toon restarts at some basic level, say 20 or so, to reflect their noobness in that new class.
Race changes - Huh? This is just getting silly!

If you want to be an orc roll one. If you want to be a dwarf roll one, but please do not be so lazy as to expect to be able to not only have your cake and to eat it but to THEN expect someone to wipe your a$$ for you.

The cries of, well I want to be a horde but dont want to go throught the levelling process are just so lame. What they translate to are: 'if I could I would start WoW at level 80 and expect an automatic boost to the next cap with each expansion'.

What is the point of playing if your cant be bothered to put any effort in at all? WoW is now so easy that levelling to 60 will only take a few days of reasonably frequent play.

In truth, the race change thing does not affect me in the slightest. What does affect me is all the QQ-ing from people who think the world's axis passes right through their butthole and EXPECT all their wants and needs to be gently deposited into their laps with minimal effort on their part.

/rant off

[Shellar]

In truth, the race change thing does not affect me in the slightest. What does affect me is all the QQ-ing from people who think the world's axis passes right through their butthole and EXPECT all their wants and needs to be gently deposited into their laps with minimal effort on their part.

/rant off
Calm down, Don Quixote, these aren't the windmills you're looking for.

If you had actually bothered to read this thread before replying, you'd discover that no one here is actively "QQing" about the lack of paid race changes, or demanding that they should be implemented right now. Instead, we've been having a rational and civilized discussion about the merits and flaws of hypothetical implementation of this feature.

[Eido]

Calm down, Don Quixote, these aren't the windmills you're looking for.

If you had actually bothered to read this thread before replying, you'd discover that no one here is actively "QQing" about the lack of paid race changes, or demanding that they should be implemented right now. Instead, we've been having a rational and civilized discussion about the merits and flaws of hypothetical implementation of this feature.

Yeah, you are right :embarassed:

Its been a rough morning, an the need to vent was strong.

Off to get my meds upped :cloud9:

[rgirty]

Changing class without changing faction would be a great option imo.

I think I said this before, but it is definitely worth repeating.

[ptarn]

Changing class without changing faction would be a downright stupid option in my opinion. It would only be feasible if you can change to a class that's allowed for your race and then - as someone else said before - you could only change your class by being 'de-levelled' to a pre-set level, so you can learn to play your 'new' class. But taking an 80 and then POOF! It's an 80 with another class, thanks, but no thanks, that's just plain laziness.

Pick a race, pick a class and live with it! If you don't like a race or class, DON'T ROLL IT! And if you hate your character, DELETE IT and start another! This would be the same as me saying 'hey, I don't like being a human, I want to be an animal or some sort of mythical creature, please change me!'. Changing my hair style or the way I look is normal. Changing my gender, well, that's not really 'normal', but it can be done. Changing my species, well... THat's a whole other ball game, isn't it? ^^

[rgirty]

Changing class without changing faction would be a downright stupid option in my opinion. It would only be feasible if you can change to a class that's allowed for your race and then - as someone else said before - you could only change your class by being 'de-levelled' to a pre-set level, so you can learn to play your 'new' class. But taking an 80 and then POOF! It's an 80 with another class, thanks, but no thanks, that's just plain laziness.

Pick a race, pick a class and live with it! If you don't like a race or class, DON'T ROLL IT! And if you hate your character, DELETE IT and start another! This would be the same as me saying 'hey, I don't like being a human, I want to be an animal or some sort of mythical creature, please change me!'. Changing my hair style or the way I look is normal. Changing my gender, well, that's not really 'normal', but it can be done. Changing my species, well... THat's a whole other ball game, isn't it? ^^

Woops i meant changing race, not class.

yeah, changing class would not be cool

lol

[Shellar]

Pick a race, pick a class and live with it! If you don't like a race or class, DON'T ROLL IT! And if you hate your character, DELETE IT and start another! This would be the same as me saying 'hey, I don't like being a human, I want to be an animal or some sort of mythical creature, please change me!'. Changing my hair style or the way I look is normal. Changing my gender, well, that's not really 'normal', but it can be done. Changing my species, well... THat's a whole other ball game, isn't it? ^^
Or is it?

Diablo 2: "Placed your talent points in the wrong places? Delete character and reroll."
Pre-Paid-Transfer WoW: "Interested in moving to another server? Delete character and reroll."
Pre-Barbershop WoW: "Tired of being stuck with the same haircut for 4 years? Delete character and reroll."
Pre-Recustomization WoW: "Thinking of switching your character's gender? Delete character and reroll."
Current WoW: "Don't like your character's race? Delete character and reroll."

Blizzard has a long history of withdrawing their "delete and reroll" policies once they become obsolete.

I expect that, one day, we'll get paid character changes, but only after special racial abilities will get removed or amalgamated into class/profession/baseline abilities (similar to the old racial Priest spells), and reputation limits on city mounts will get lifted. Once race becomes a purely cosmetic factor, there will be no more reason to ensure its permanency.

[Froggelet]

Lol. Honestly, I consider most of the toon options in this game uggggleeee. My list of not ugly is much shorter than my list of fuglies.

My main gripe is that more classes aren't available to more races. I'm speaking here of Alliance characters, since I find the Horde ones ugliest of all and won't play them. Are Gnomes non-believers (hence the lack of Priests or Druids or Shamans)? Can a Gnome not be a Hunter? Can other races not be Shamans (besides the ugliest and most incongruous of all, the Draenei)? I know, the lore will be brought up. Yes, I know the lore, played the original PC Warcraft: Orcs vs Humans and its successors until I could have played them in my sleep, but this MMORPG is a whole different kettle of fish. And lore grows and changes and adopts new bits. Just look at our own various mythologies. How many of them are faithful to the originals?

[Redhole]

I'd very much like to see race changes, certainly within faction and maybe even across factions. I don't even think you need to come up with a roleplaying rational, after all roleplaying in WOW is entirely optional.

As things stand, I wouldn't want to see disallowed race/class combinations, but I also think the race/class restrictions should be dispensed with. There's already some precedent for this - after all, are there not human hunters in the scarlet crusade? They certainly seem to be with their pets and ranged weapons. And I'm sure there's a dwarf mage or maybe warlock in Nethergarde Keep.

[Shellar]

*snaps fingers*

I just realized how Blizzard could sidestep the whole "switch to another race to get their mounts without grinding rep" issue, while reducing the number of careless or spur-of-the-moment changes and providing a minor lore justification:

"Switching to another race requires Exalted reputation with that race's home faction."

[ptarn]

Shellar, that's brilliant! ^^

About the class restrictions: I agree that in some cases it's just downright strange that a certain race can't be a certain class. Why can't gnomes or humans be hunters? Why can't certain races 'see the Light' and become Paladins? I mean, an Undead Paladin... That would be quite something, wouldn't it? And it won't be stranger than an Undead Priest in my opinion.

As to Druids or Shamans: I have to say that I can understand the restrictions, because being a druid or a shaman means that you have a bond with the Earth Mother or the ancestral spirits and I don't think they'd be all too happy with Undead Druids or Shamans. Or Human Druids or Shamans, since the humans have not been that forthcoming in how they treat Orcs and Taurens and Trolls, have they? But... Lorewise, you could conceivable create some sort of very loooong and difficult quest chain that you have to complete ALONE in order to gain some sort of possibility to 'walk the path of the Earth Mother' or 'pass the Rite of Passage for the spirits'.
You could even tie this kind of quest in with a change of faction (humans joining the Horde, because they like the Tauren lifestyle or something like that). I have to say I can see possibilities within the lore that would allow for certain changes. But I'm still opposed to changing your race 'at a whim', even if you had to pay for it.

[rgirty]

*snaps fingers*

I just realized how Blizzard could sidestep the whole "switch to another race to get their mounts without grinding rep" issue, while reducing the number of careless or spur-of-the-moment changes and providing a minor lore justification:

"Switching to another race requires Exalted reputation with that race's home faction."

I vote for this.

[Shellar]

We wanted to give everyone a very early heads-up that, in response to player requests, we’re developing a new service for World of Warcraft that will allow players to change their faction from Alliance to Horde or Horde to Alliance. There’s still much work to do and many details to iron out, but the basic idea is that players will be able to use the service to transform an existing character into a roughly equivalent character of the opposing faction on the same realm. Players who ended up creating and leveling up characters on the opposite factions from their friends have been asking for this type of functionality for some time, and we’re pleased to be getting closer to being able to deliver it.

As with all of the features and services we offer, we intend to incorporate the faction-change service in a way that won’t disrupt the gameplay experience on the realms, and there will be some rules involved with when and how the service can be used. The number of variables involved increases the complexity of implementing this service, but we plan to take the time needed to ensure that it lives up to expectations before officially rolling it out. We’ll go into much more detail on all of this here at http://www.WorldofWarcraft.com as development progresses. In the meantime, we wanted to let you know that because this type of functionality requires extensive internal testing well in advance of release, you may be seeing bits and pieces of the service in the test builds we use for the public test realms moving forward.

Words fail me.

[det]

Words fail me.

See, you knew it all along :)

[Trakamoocow]

Shellar = Wow Dev, calling it now :p

[Shellar]

Shellar = Wow Dev, calling it now :p
*chuckles*

I've been accused of that before (for instance, when I predicted that Algalon will despawn for a week if you fail to defeat him, long before 3.1 went live). No, I'm not a developer; I just learned to recognize certain patterns in their thoughts and actions.

[Maticus]

Well, I guess this is another example of Blizzard 'mentioning' a random feature, seemingly just chatting about it, then a couple of weeks later it's something they're working on :)