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The dishonorable system is already in the game for civilian NPCs. You cannot get a dishonorable kill for killing a fellow player.
[snip]
1. Due to the Alliance, Horde and Contested areas, you can only really be PKed once you are in your 20s. Thus you have a good amount of time to learn the ropes of your class and if the need should arise, be able to escape certain situations.
2. The death penalty is neglible, thus the worst thing that can happen is to lose some time.
In reality a penalty system gives rise to griefing and baiting. A penalty system would discourage PvP rather than make it more fair across the board.
Instead of penalizing "bad" behavior, we want to encourage good behavior through a reward system.
[snip]
The introduction of a PvP penalty system opens the doors to many "what if" situations.
Lets say theres a mass PvP raid with players of all levels. Are you forced to watch who you are attacking for fear that killing those players will result in a penalty?
What if a lower level player is walking around buffing players who do not have a PvP flag. So lets say he sits there and buffs people prior to fights and after they rezz. You cannot touch that person because they are not flagged for PvP.
What if a lower level player decides it'd be fun to follow you around everywhere but not attack you to make a nuisance of himself.
The system is currently very wide open. But it's a more natural system of PvP, rather than try to figure out who you can attack and who you can't and what are the consequences.
So Blizzard lied to us again, and those of use who chose PvP servers based on the promises of Honor systems and gank control really got screwed. Interesting that they didn't mention it. If I had known Blizzard was going to change their minds about this, I would never have chosen a PvP server. Ganking on Tichondrius is almost unbearable.
Honor is a concept that is central to our PvP ranking system. There are honorable kills and there are dishonorable kills. You earn honor for killing opponents at or near your level, and more honor still if you kill a higher level player character, as opposed to an NPC. There are also dishonorable kills, and these would include killing lower level PCs and NPCs, and especially non-aggressive NPCs like gryphon masters and quest givers. If you repeatedly make dishonorable kills, you'll eventually go into the negative ranks, and lose experience and become attackable on sight by both factions. Our intention is to punish dishonorable behavior and reward honorable PvP play.
Ouch, very very bad. Sorry blizzard, but there will always be grievers and exploiters, whatever you're going to do. What blizzard is describing is valid, but I know that people are capable of dedicating themselves for months on end to grieving as many players as possible. Now there is nothing to stand in their way, blizzard just opened the floodgates. I was planning on playing on a PvP server once the game gets out in europe, because pvp was bound to certain rules and had meaning.
Dropped the ball, changed their minds to late, bad decision. Go blizzard, the more we progress the more you're ****ing things up. Ah well, it had to happen sometime.
It's not that bad, they are still going to have rewards, but no penalties, they make some valid points and all. They should have told us earlier though.
If I had known Blizzard was going to change their minds about this, I would never have chosen a PvP server.
Ouch. The reason i intend to play a PvP server is because i thought Blizzard were gonna move forward on Player vs Player rules, not backtrack and just leave it as it is, which just seems lazy to me. I figured by the time the game comes out in Europe they'd be a nice balanced set of rules, honour system and all, for a good PvP server experience.
If they leave the PvP servers as they are, i'll seriously be thinking about playing on a blue server.
So now, Blizzard, the company who "don't like to release information about their games early incase they have to pull it" (paraphrased), have now added the honor system to the list of no shows...
Heroes
Battlegrounds
Honor System
Weather
I can live without weather but the other 3 are major parts of the game that have been pulled/postponed. Nice.
Ouch. The reason i intend to play a PvP server is because i thought Blizzard were gonna move forward on Player vs Player rules, not backtrack and just leave it as it is, which just seems lazy to me. I figured by the time the game comes out in Europe they'd be a nice balanced set of rules, honour system and all, for a good PvP server experience.
If they leave the PvP servers as they are, i'll seriously be thinking about playing on a blue server.
So now, Blizzard, the company who "don't like to release information about their games early incase they have to pull it" (paraphrased), have now added the honor system to the list of no shows...
Heroes
Battlegrounds
Honor System
Weather
I can live without weather but the other 3 are major parts of the game that have been pulled/postponed. Nice.
~1have2much3time
I thought weather was definately going to be put in...
Anyway, this is bad (and I am definately going to be on a PvE server now) but their explanation is very valid. I think the best thing to say is: What would you do about it? It seems like they hit a brick wall tring to figure it out.
That said, they really should have said this before the US release, there will be alot of level 30 americans not wanting to be on the server they are on now and wont want to change...
I think the most constructive solution would be to try and figure out a way to get around this and suggest it. Not that I care that much now, as PvE still has a very good PvP system working, easily good enough to get the rushes from raids and such.
The problem is exactly what blizz stated. How do you separate "dishonorable" lowbie kills from "justified" kills? Wouldn't you hate it just as much if someone was harassing you, but you could not touch them due to the honor system? The honor system would introduce as many problems as it might solve.
They need some sort of system that activates after too much ganking... allow lowbies to get caught in crossfire, squished if they are harrassing, etc. But after a few (5? 10?) repeats, some sort of elite guard is summoned to hunt down the ganker. And any lowbie that buffs/helps should count as attacking (i.e. no protection).
Let people do what they want... in general. Occasionally killing people lower than you is fine (part of the game, IMO). Camping corpses or lowbie areas is just wrong.
Although I think the Blizzard stance is simply the easy way out (leave it unregulated), it's certainly a valid viewpoint... any system can be abused. The problem is that they didn't announce this change in plans, and I spent a whole week building a level 25 character on a PvP server believing that controls were going to be added. Now I have the choice of starting over on a PvE server or trying to tolerate constant ganking. It's just not a very good choice... after two beta periods, I'm really tired of starting over.
And I don't think it's impossible to implement a good honorable PvP system. If a character is, say 10 levels below you, then that character could simply be not marked as PvP to you, unless he chooses to attack you first, just like in the non-contested zones. So if a lowbie "harasses" you, by attacking you or healing/buffing another PvPer, then he's marked for PvP and you can kill him. And ganking... if you're in combat with a mob and someone attacks you, that's easy to detect. These problems are not that hard to solve... Blizzard is just being lazy.
Several people already suggested a very easy way around the problems blizzard describe. Attacking a low level will give you a dishonorable kill unless he attacks you first, in return autotarget should skip them and AOE's dont affect them untill they have attacked you.
Several people already suggested a very easy way around the problems blizzard describe. Attacking a low level will give you a dishonorable kill unless he attacks you first, in return autotarget should skip them and AOE's dont affect them untill they have attacked you.
easy enough.
Agree. But I think the biggest problem this system would introduce is harassment from someone lower than you. There are times when you would need to attack first, no matter what.
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