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A man has been shot dead on a tube train, from what i have read he was chased onto a tube train by 4 plain clothed police who jumped on him and shot him 5 times.
I came to this part of the forums to start the same thread but you beat me to it.
This is a little disturbing. By all witness accounts I've read the man was chased into a subway, tripped/was pushed onto the ground, had several undercover agents subdue him and was THEN shot to death by 5 rounds.
If it's found that the man was carrying explosives or a detonator on him then their actions are understandable but otherwise it seems an awful lot like murder.
Turns out he wasn't involved in terrorism. Yet he was dressed in the way suicide bombers dress, ran from the cops into a subway and so on. He screwed up bad and paid the price. Too bad he wasn't a terrorist though. They deserve to be shot down like dogs.
people are know callling for the policeman that shoot him to be charged with murder, what is going on, this people chased what they thought was a bomber that could go off at any time, risking there lives, jumped on top off him, not knowing if the bomb would go off, and killed him, they should be heros.
i hate how people like to look back hindsight is always 20/20. they made the right chose, it was a hard chose, but it needed be made, what if he had been a bomber and the police had not shoot him, (if they had followed there old engagment rules they would have not been alowed to shoot him) and a bomb had gone off, would anyone accept them saying, "sorry we did not stop him, he MAY not have been a bomber, his family may have taken use to court", come on if it smells like s##t and it looks like s##t you have to treat it as s##t till you know otherwise.
people are know callling for the policeman that shoot him to be charged with murder, what is going on, this people chased what they thought was a bomber that could go off at any time, risking there lives, jumped on top off him, not knowing if the bomb would go off, and killed him, they should be heros.
i hate how people like to look back hindsight is always 20/20. they made the right chose, it was a hard chose, but it needed be made, what if he had been a bomber and the police had not shoot him, (if they had followed there old engagment rules they would have not been alowed to shoot him) and a bomb had gone off, would anyone accept them saying, "sorry we did not stop him, he MAY not have been a bomber, his family may have taken use to court", come on if it smells like s##t and it looks like s##t you have to treat it as s##t till you know otherwise.
I don't think you can make that judgement unless you know exactly what information they were going on. If the only thing tying him to the bombings was the fact that he left a house that was under surveillance, then murder has been comitted. If he did in fact have 'wires dangling from his jacket' as I read somewhere it might be justified.
Either way, you would think that with 2-3 of the bombers still running free, if this guy was connected to the bombings he would be a valuable interrogation suspect...
Either way, they made the wrong choice and they know they did. It will be interesting to see if an agent is charged.
1. He's from Brazil. Slight climate difference. If I was used to Brazillian weather, I might wear a coat in London too.
2. The officers were in street clothes and waving a gun. I would run too if four men waving guns started running towards me.
3. They tackled him, and THEN shot him. Why? He was already subdued. And they didn't shoot him once, they shot him FIVE TIMES.
4. They were following him because they were watching him and thought he was a threat. But they didn't take him down till he was in the subway system? Nice police work there.
"We think he's a suicide bomber. Should we arrest him?"
"Nah, let him leave his house and get to the subway. We'll try to get him there."
"But isn't that dangerous if we are correct in believing he's a terrorist?"
"Don't worry about it, if he's not a terrorist he'll immediately drop to the ground and surrender when he sees a bunch of random guys brandshing guns run towards him."
1. I think after living here (working as an electrician) for three years he'd have been acclimatized by now.
2. They flashed police identification at him and he was told 'stop police' and then began to run and ran into the station. Later after he'd jumped over the turnstiles in the tube station 'stop or we'll shoot' and numerous times down the stairs, through the tunnels out onto the platform. Many members of the public have testified to that in news reports. Incidentally, none of the public (locals and tourists) spoken to after the incident said they were in any doubt that the persuers were policemen.
3. Tackling a bomber won't stop them hitting the detonator button, wherever that may be concealed. A lot of detonators run down the sleeve of the jacket into a small device concealed in the palm, you wouldn't even see it unless you knew to look for it. You wouldn't see it being pressed either. Certainly a bomber is not open to discussion of demands or debate. They've already resigned themselves to their own death, once collared, they'll just detonate ready or not, regardless if they've reached their original target. If they're surrounded by policemen then that's a bonus.
How many seconds would give? Given the fact you've chased him, you know he knows you're a copper and he's thrown himself onto a waiting train. It's also not 24 hours since the failed bombers boarded trains at the very same station. The carriage is also full of the public. Weighing it all up, I'd say they did the right thing at the time, even though it turned out to be the wrong thing. Incidentally, since the bombs there have 250 incidents where the police have had to make that same decision.
4. It was only when he continued began to run, that they determined something very serious was wrong.
Who knew he had an expired visa and that's probably why he was running from the police.
Three of the failed bombers from last Thursday returned to their flats to pick up more explosives before leaving for who knows where. I guess we have to just wait to see where that is.
I think the real mistake was in not picking him up sooner.
Why wait for him to get to the Tube and realizing that he should be stopped then? If he had been strapped with a bomb and was truly a terrorist, do you really think that he wouldn't have set off the bomb the moment he was tackled to the ground and restrained by the police, killing them and anyone within the blast radius?
I just don't understand it. They let him on a bus--haven't there been something like 5 bombs either detonated or planted on buses in London in the past two weeks? Why let it get that far? Stop him as he leaves his apartment so you can a) capture him alive rather than firing 7 rounds into the back of his head, b) not endanger the entire tube station in the process.
Just my $0.02. I think the police screwed up bigtime on this one. Any number of things should have been done differently.
1. I think after living here (working as an electrician) for three years he'd have been acclimatized by now.
Three years isn't a particularly long time, especially if he'd been living in Brazil for much longer. I've been in Florida for 5 months now, and the heat/humidity hasn't even started to come close to feeling normal. I can't even imagine what Brazil is like compared to London.
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3. Tackling a bomber won't stop them hitting the detonator button,
But shooting them in the head will? If he's got the detonator in his hand, shooting him could very well trigger the explosive. If he doesn't have it in his hand, with 4 cops on him you'd think they could have grabbed his arms. And if you are so concerned about him detonating it that you have to shoot him, why tackle him, and then put a gun to his head and pull the trigger five times?
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4. It was only when he continued began to run, that they determined something very serious was wrong.
If they wanted to arrest him, they should have arrested him when he left the house (they had him under surveillance), or arrested him when they were near him. Watching him from a distance and letting him get close enough to run to the bus only to flash your guns at him from said distance so that he either:
A: Has no idea who you are and runs.
B: Is a suicide bomber, and will now take off running since you aren't close enough to stop him.
That's just dumb.
If he HAD been a suicide bomber, he could have detonated himself long before they finally tackled him. All in all, a very bad play for the police.
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I think the real mistake was in not picking him up sooner.
Why wait for him to get to the Tube and realizing that he should be stopped then? If he had been strapped with a bomb and was truly a terrorist, do you really think that he wouldn't have set off the bomb the moment he was tackled to the ground and restrained by the police, killing them and anyone within the blast radius?
I just don't understand it. They let him on a bus--haven't there been something like 5 bombs either detonated or planted on buses in London in the past two weeks? Why let it get that far? Stop him as he leaves his apartment so you can a) capture him alive rather than firing 7 rounds into the back of his head, b) not endanger the entire tube station in the process.
"do you really think that he wouldn't have set off the bomb the moment he was tackled to the ground and restrained by the police, killing them and anyone within the blast radius? "
Err no, that's my point here.
SaroDarksbane
Sorry, no, 3 years is plenty time to get acclimatized and upper 20's is hardly big wooly jacket weather. I used to live between Indonesia and the UK and it wouldn't take me more than a month to get back into the swing of the weather when jumping between the two.
I think they tackled him to control the shooting rather than trying to shoot at him inside a crowded train. In the head I imagine because they risk detonating the bomb concealed on the body if they go for the torso.
As I understand it they didn't wish to arrest him when he left the house. I don't know what changed between the house and then asking him to stop. Obvioulsy something changed that we're not privy to yet. As I said before if they did act without any thought or consideration 250 other people would have been shot between the first bombings and yesterday.
Man shot dead in london
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