Arathi Basin Tactics (Battleground)

[Kyveli]

.......1st of all, I must say that I've used the "search" and didn't find a similar thread, so if there is so, please, merge it, and excuse me...

Well, I'm playing on VashJ realm, a gnome lock, 42lv at this moment... I really like battlegrounds and I play when the opportunity comes, always with the hope to win. I've played several times, believe me, and never, I mean never, alliance wins. (except once, Ohh, I remember well this time :P)

I always came up with the idea that alliance doesn't have any tactic at all, except running all over the place, like idiots, unorganized, and not doing anything, while the horde part, does everything! The score is always like 400-2000, or even worse! :ash:

So please, I would like to see a thread with AB tactics' analysis.

So far, I try to convince the raid, if there is one, (yes, we even play without raid :whistle: ) to have a defensive mode on. Capture 2 flags for sure, try for the 3rd, and never, I mean never leave a flag with noone to keep an eye on her.

I've also seen the zerg tactic, which doesn't work for me, it leaves all the flags uprotected, which is quite stupid...

And also the hanibal tactic, hordes seems to really like this one... They leave at their already captured flag 2-3 people, and then a group of 7 makes circles, attacks to the alliance flags, and takes them... (in a short period of time, the just gather all the alliance in their graveyard -stables- in a "wonderfull" continuous massacre )

[shonto]

The usually Horde tactic that I've seen (being Horde myself) is a full forward rush, running out to take the blacksmith, mine, and lumber camp then moving on to pressure the stables while leaving 1-2 at both the mine and lumber camp (people will be traveling thru the blacksmith). Everyone else goes on a forward rush to the stables (not a real object just a HK farm) and goes to help out if the Allies break thru to any other objective so you often get a 7 man zerg for assist. It works marvelously well as we keep 3 bases most of the time sometimes 4 or 5 depending on the team.

And no, this isn't a talked out plan, just how it works out most of the time. Everyone usually knows where they fit well (hunters at mill because of the lines of sight a rogue or lock at the mine) and usually plays that position.

If you can manage to control both mine and the lumber camp, you own the game. The games that have been hard, the allies have set up strong defensive positions at both the mine and blacksmith (not the lumber camp for some reason).

It's kind of dissapointing though as we often only get 2-3 games then the allies chicken out.

[Aswer]

And also (60 NE druid and 49 UD mage here) try to play as much with your guildies / RL friends, and get some way of communication. I constantly play my UD mage in BGs with 3 RL friends and we use skype (4 pax limit), then I try to be the one making the raid group so we can stick in the same group. We still work with the rest of the raid but even this complementary way of collaborating is great. We are mage, shaman, lock and priest. We've taken zergs of 10-12 alliance players out this way in a matter of 20-30 seconds. And this is still technically in pugs, cause you don't know who the other 11 players will be. One more thing, as you advance through BGs and get to know players, do some diplomacy, get to know the good ones, talk to them, add them to your friends list. After a couple of months like this, you will see the "join as group" feature as your friend. Alliance has as many means to win BGs as horde does, so there is really no reason why one should be vastly superior to the other. Now I have the luck that on my alliance server we usually win and on my horde server we usually win too. :D

Don't be a cheap mofo either, deck yourself out for BG battles properly. The rations you get with the BG factions are MUCH faster than regular mana drinks unless you have a mage with crystal water. Those (say) 10 seconds you gain are 10 seconds you won't be missing in battle / defense. Cooking is your friend. At my UD mages level I always carry a stack of +12 sta/spi food and some nightfin soup when available (+8 mana every 5 seconds). Add those in to priest/druid/mage buffs and you're flying. Have a stack of the best potions you can use always on you, healing, mana, swiftness, free action pots. Fully buffed at my current level I have just over 3k health (the mage).

If you are serious about PvP get yourself decent PvP gear WHATEVER your level. My mage at 49 has 8 items that add damage to spells. Whatever stamina or intellect I lose, I try to make up with enchants and PvP reward gear / BG faction gear. 1k+ pyro crits are happening since 47 for me in BGs. (arcane/fire). I haven't tested but I don't think I would be getting more than 1k ever without this gear.

And last but not least: BUFF UP! Everyone on a given team should be fully buffed by the others, at least before the battle starts. That can mean a subtle but important difference at the beginning of a battle.

Edit: I know this is "slightly" OT, but proper AB tactics have been discussed here and elsewhere in detail. If you want a summary: "defense and teamplay" should do it. :)

[Kyveli]

thank you for your answers... :winky47:

I would also like to add one more tactic, supplementary on the defensive way...
Leaving backforces in every captured flag, well, it's great, but you could also have, a stealthed runner (rogue, druid) to capture the unprotected enemy flags. (just doing "runs" to the flags)

Also the "skype" thing was really good, hehe...writting in the middle of the battle, takes too much time.

Creating a "friend raid BG list " is great idea too. I've started already doing this...
(the only problem is that I've collected so many "friends" for different purposes, that I don't remember anymore who I've added and for what reason! If there was a "friend list editor addon" it would be just great idea! :happy14: )

[djclaremont]

I play on the BGs as an alliance priest, and usually, nobody seems to protect our healers. Horde seems pretty good at protecting their healers. Or perhaps the alliance doesn't go for the enemy healers as much? Having your healers healing, as opposed to fighting and dying can certainly give you a tactical edge in the little battles that often develop at the resource points.

[Trepidation]

Healing healers has a negative benefit since their HP loss rate is significantly higher. If you as a healer are getting beat on you should NOT look at to survive but rather DELAY your innevatiable death. The longer people are focused on you (priest) the more chance your teammates can take them out as well. A 29/22 disc/holy spec is awesome for BG durability/effect. Nothing is more amusing than two rogues beating on you and taking them 30 seconds to kill you. While that is going on your 4 friends take out the rest of their group quickly and beat them from behind. One death (me) versus their five.

Another trick is to fight at the flag. The primary benefits are being close to stop somebody from tapping and ALSO to let them start tapping (remember, it takes time) and then stop them just before they complete. While they are tapping, they aren't doing damage...so let them.

The hanibal method is by far my favorite. We often quickly take the first three 3 then win at the 3/2 method. You leave 2 at lumber/min each...a hunter at farm and have 1 or two packs go out and cause havoc. If the other team is truely dumb you can often take the 4th and just win quicker. The key to the hanibal method is to NOT sit idle if you are not a guard. Once the fight starts winding down, get on your horse and move towards the opposites teams "RES" point. Keep them from even getting close to flag. If they can't get focused...they can't win.

Having a priest lookout at lumber mill is great....Mind vision FTW. Allows you a significant tactical advantage for figuring out where the enemy is moving towards.

Also learn WHO are the guild/raid teams that are beyond your scope to beat. You know the teams that 5-0 before you know what hit you. Once you get in...look at opposing team players. If it is a known pvp/raid guild...AFK out. Try and get PUG if you can. The new 10 minute really makes this even more true.

Start a list as mentioned above of people who you know don't suck. Creating a team is the best way to win AB. I'm on a list with another guild. I tell them when I log on. If they have an AB spot open up..I get in and never lose an AB. Tis fun.

-tReP

[Bokar]

The standard Horde method of sending one group of 5 to the LM, BS, and Mine is good, with those that fail keeping the Alliance from acting further. It works very well in the 30's range with my undead priest, fairly well with my orc warrior in 40's battles. 50's, well, they can't get in, ever.

My shaman just hit 60, and he's starting to play AB at that level, but so far they've had the worst organization I've ever seen, even compared to 20's WG. Add in his generally below average equipment, and he's lucky to get 3 HK's the whole battle, particularly if he can't get a raid invite.

[Kyveli]

thank you for your responses...

I have one more question about Battlegrounds, does anyone have understood, the "die-resurect" process?? I mean graveyards....Where you get resurected? Is there a rounding process? or the hall thing is like this...

If you die at your base, and the base is still yours(flag not yet captured byt the enemie), then you resurect at this graveyard.
If you die, and the base is not anymore yours, you will res, at the next close "your side" flag. If any, at your central graveyard...

And if you die, and insignia tacken, well then, no importance about basis, you get transported at you graveyard and you resurect only there.

Is that right? Or I'm wrong? Cause I'm not yet pretty sure why I die for exemple in GM, and i resurect in the Mill Graveyard... :ash:

[Hrungnir]

You will always rez at the controlled graveyard closest to where you died.

This means (and half of the people seem to get this, the other half are clueless) that when you are attacking an enemy point, attacking the flag is the most important thing, or you will have to kill the same people three times.

I love the sap/sheep/seduce and steal the flag trick. If it's one on one going into a control point, always do that, take the flag, and then proceed to kick their butt. Otherwise he'll rez by the time you get the flag.

[elwoodb647]

On my server, so many people seem to care much more about kills than wins. If pure honor and/or bragging rights is what your after, you can certainly get a lot of HK's, but I'm there for reputation, and winning gives a lot more rep than losing.

Specifics of "bad" behaviors:

- If you are ever operating completely alone, you're not helping your team. So many rogues stealth away and try to harass opposing teams flags. If you find one completely undefended, you can put it into contest, but you can't actually take it before the other side dispatches a group to take it back, so you haven't helped your team very much at all.

- If you aren't willing to play defense, you aren't going to win. My preference is 2 or 3 left at each node permanently, with the rest of the group working on offense and dynamically supporting on defense.

- Appropriate communication is important. If you say "OMG INC MINE NEED HELP NOW!!!!" when there is only 1 or 2 enemies coming at a reasonably well defended flag, you're just wasting the time of your teammates, because you're not in jeopardy. If you say "inc mill" when what you actually see is 8 enemies moving together towards the mill, you probably aren't going to get the response you need to be able to hold the mill. Use numbers, use facts. (i.e. "Shaman and warrior inc mill from south" is better than "2 inc mill" which is better than "inc mill" which is better than nothing.)

- Sometimes waiting (as opposed to charging headlong into battle) is the better strategy. If you have 2 nodes with 3 defenders each, and the opposition has the other three nodes with 5 defenders each, you have 2 choices:

1.) wait a full res cycle, gather your forces all together, and assault a single node 9 vs. 5.

2.) spread your forces out either by trying to take 2 nodes at the same time or not waiting a full res cycle so that half your team is dead or out of combat all the time. These options lead you into a 4.5 ish to 5 battle.

The fundamental is that the defending team gets the benefit of the graveyard, so with even numbers (5 on 5), the defending team is usually going to be able to hold. My thinking is its a lot better to go 9 vs. 5 and win swiftly than trying to go 4.5 vs 5 over and over and over again hoping to wear them down.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen a group of 3 or 4 of my raid-mates dive headfirst into 5 defenders at a flag, when another 3 or 4 helpers were only 15-20 seconds away from being there to help. So instead of 8 on 5 and winning, you fight 4 on 5 twice and lose. Boggles the mind really.

- Finally, don't feed the zerg. If your opponents have 8-10 defenders at a node, even if you had your whole team together you probably can't take that node because of the graveyard. If they have 8-10 attackers coming at a node with 3 defenders, don't call for help. You're going to lose, and calling for help assures that they will be able to kill all of the helpers when they come in. If there are 8-10 in one spot, that means the rest of the zone is not very well defended. Go somewhere else NOW. Don't say, "I'll go to the other place after I've tried this", because you have to wait a res cycle and that gives them time to reposition. Run away from the zerg before you die; just move on and take what isn't defended.