Raid instance trend developing?

[Houdy]

I think I first noticed it in MC with getting the drops for Thunderfury, get two pieces then the mats to the sword.. nothing too time consuming and at the time, WoW was still new, guilds were still being formed and most servers haven't had one guild step foot in MC, nevermind clear it or put it on farm status. The game was new and guilds hadn't done everything in MC/the world yet, so keeping people occupied wasn't a pressing matter.

fast forward to ZG
Now you need rep to get items, drops that are parts of item sets you need rep to get. So what you're saying is that I kill a ZG boss and get a sash, that I can't wear? it's part of a rep line and if I get the matching piece and then have the rep and the coins/bijous i can then turn it all in for gear? hrmm

Jump to AQ40
I need rep again.. fine. I kill bosses and get drops that i have to turn in after i have acquired enough other pieces and rep.. then i get the item? why can't i just kill the boss and use the item he drops? I see what you did there..

Land in Naxx
Hey.. more parts of items that i have to piece together in order to get gear? so we kill a boss and out of 3 items, 1 is useable? the other 2 get banked until the person has rep and the other pieces in order to turn in to get the gear? so you gave me an IOU?

what am I getting to here?
I think that Blizzard has seen enough guilds clear content in such a short time that they give us reasons (heck.. force us) to continue to raid areas over and over in order to get gear. Do i care about that? not really.. i enjoy raiding.. it's not nearly as time consuming as people think and i like playing a MMO the way it's designed. What i don't like is the feeling that Blizzard doesn't have enough for us to do so they kind of take a sneaky approach to keeping us occupied..this doesn't exist for raid guilds and raiders only.

I suppose what I am saying is that if this trend continues, then the next raid instances and battlegrounds will have even more (almost) useless side content that they force you to clear in order to keep you playing the same content while questing for your rewards. I kind of feel like Blizzard is telling us "hey, we can't come up with enough content to meet the demand, so we'll make you waste time in order to keep you occupied".

No, i am not asking for more items to drop from bosses so i can get more epics quicker, i'm inquiring as to whether we are being placated due to outgrowing the content.

Does this make sense? sorry if it doesn't, trying to write while pretending to work. any thoughts?

[Oatmealsmurf]

AD rep is probably the easiest to accumulate though so it shouldn't be much of an issue in Naxx... with the invasion and all (which I really spent very little time but a couple of nights participating in) I'm already 2300 from revered, possibly one scholo run where we clear the entire thing. And I still have a mountain of scourge stones to turn in. I'm sure I could reach exalted in a week if I really tried.

Now Zandalar rep... that's just a pain because the only way you can really accumulate it is inside the instance. I have my sash but I'm still just neutral (about 200 from friendly) and I need honored to turn it in

[Grendo]

Not to be inconsiderate, but technically it makes no difference. Youre still going to farm the instance, thus obtaining the rep you need, and still then get the item completed.

This 'new' loot concept stops guild hoppers and ninjas from stealing 'phat loots' and gives you something to work on. Its more interactive from a gameplay perspective as well.

It also keeps bosses from becoming 'ezmode' incredibly too fast given their large loot tables and power curve from said gear. I thought a challenge was a good thing?

[Oatmealsmurf]

That is if your guild runs ZG... We only run ZG or AQ20 when there isn't enough for MC. And on top of that my guild is overpopulated with my class (which funnily enough I chose in part because they aren't played as often as others) so when we do run ZG at least four of us are always left behind. At least for AQ there are quests with Cenaurion circle that I can do if it's my turn to sit out of the raid or I can grind Twilight Cultists and turn in texts. Plus there is AQ40 that we'll get to in time.

I seriously doubt we'll ever run ZG with enough regularity for me to reach exalted with Zandalar. I envision honored as the highest I make it.

[Houdy]

Grendo:
a challenge is a great thing.. but is loot drop a challenge or the beating of a boss the challenge?
I don't mind running instances over and over.. lord know i have done em all, a lot.
What i do mind is that the loot is only available in a manner where it seems Blizzard has just run out of things for the player to do, so in order to keep you interested in the game, they give you pieces to the gear and make you come back for the rest of it.


Take AQ40 for example.. the gear in there really isnt that great..not the dropped gear. However the rep+pieced together gear is pretty good. Knowing that the player isn't going to run AQ40 often because 1. The loot table isn't great, and 2. they get bored.. Blizzard says .."let's stall them on getting the gear they really want"..

i don't know a way to fix this, but i hope that the next 20/40 man doesnt require exhaulted rep + 20 random drops in order to get your piece of gear.

Isn't that epic staff in Naxx made from 40 splinters of something + rep or whatever? do you think they made it cost 40 splinters because getting 40 is a challenge or because it will keep raiders busy, even though they aren't busy on any new content?

[Grendo]

The challenge referred was definitely in regards to the fight, I should have been more clear. However, easily farmable loot increases the ability to kill said bosses, and thus the fights become less challenging more quickly.

I hope this isnt a common trend, and just a way to slow down power gear farming until the expansion.

Though I am curious, as I havent been past MC in my now-casual playstyle...is the generic gear that dropped class specific? Or can anyone pick it up and then the final peice is dependent on the class who turns it in?


If so, could it also be a programming solution? With so many people complaining that 'zomg my uberwhitehelmofpurpleshiney hasnt dropped in 58 runs', it makes sense for the developers to create an item that is lootable by all, and can then be turned into something useful. EQ went with a similar approach that ended up working pretty well, though the only requirement to completing them was the rest of the recipe/combine, not faction. All of which could be gathered somewhat commonly from raids/downtime.

[Ammon]

EQ went with a similar approach that ended up working pretty well

I remember that fairly well , 10kpp to per piece to complete most Individual Qvic Armors , was dead annoying tbh
think it cost 20k for the chest & legs , not 100% sure since i stayed away from those due to being flat broke after getting a bracer , helm , boots & Arms

[DotComm]

The items that drop in naxx can be used by two or three classes.

I think this is a well needed step away from random loot. I know many people who haven't got their full tier 1 set because the piece they need just will not drop - for example, my guild has had one nightslayer cover, ever. And we've done MC for at least a year. Yet, if there's two or three different drops that can be used by multiple classes, more people get their item sets. Of course, there's more competition so they're more expensive DKP-wise, but it all balances out in the end.

The dependancy on reputation is a bit of a pain mind, so I guess this slows it all down a bit. But getting constant rep is better than not getting the drop you want for months isn't it?

[ShadowmageIX]

In all honesty the token system is pretty great, it stops such moronic sequences of events like killing Chromaggus 15 times and never seeing rogue shoulders for example.

The only obnoxious thing about the naxx items is that you need things like mooncloth and arcanite, which is just an annoying way of making chinese farming a profitable venture...

[Thalassicus]

Originally Posted by Houdy

I think I first noticed it in MC with getting the drops for Thunderfury, get two pieces then the mats to the sword.. nothing too time consuming and at the time, WoW was still new, guilds were still being formed and most servers haven't had one guild step foot in MC, nevermind clear it or put it on farm status. The game was new and guilds hadn't done everything in MC/the world yet, so keeping people occupied wasn't a pressing matter.

We've been doing Molten Core since last summer and only have two Thunderfuries, the first of which we completed January 8th. Only seen two pair of bindings in that entire time, some guilds have had less (one or none in 12+ months), some more. It's very time consuming, and moreso - annoying - due to the random factor.

Originally Posted by Houdy

Land in Naxx
Hey.. more parts of items that i have to piece together in order to get gear? so we kill a boss and out of 3 items, 1 is useable? the other 2 get banked until the person has rep and the other pieces in order to turn in to get the gear? so you gave me an IOU?

The sets in Naxxramas (unless I overlooked something...we have turned in a few pieces) have no rep requirement. You have to have Honored with the AD to get in, but that's extremely easy and most people have at least Revered. The scraps aren't a limiting factor either.

They actually specifically mentioned that they learned from ZG not to do rep requirements to get gear.

The Splinters...who knows. That quest line won't be complete until the expansion.

Originally Posted by ShadowmageIX

IThe only obnoxious thing about the naxx items is that you need things like mooncloth and arcanite, which is just an annoying way of making chinese farming a profitable venture...

I'd guess 90% of the population already has all the mats for thier gear bought and paid for a month ago.