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This question is mainly addressed to those who do not have a DKP system in place for their ZG runs.
How do you handle the Primal Hakkari Idol? Recall that this is the item Bloodlord Mandokir and Jin'do the Hexxer drop in order to apply the ZG enchant to you helmet or pants.
We kill these bosses every single time we do ZG (twice a week). Our current ZG/AQ20 system is just a rolling one. You're permitted to roll need on one epic and one blue per run, and contested items (Panther Hide Sack, epic Tiger or Raptor, Primal Hakkari Idols, Alchemy trinket pieces, Turtle poly book) are free rolls above and beyond regular blues/epics.
The Primal Hakkari Idols are, obviously, hottly contested. Our only requirements are that you must have a Tier 2 or better item to enchant, have Friendly or higher rep, and have a Doll. Thus, every ZG run sees 6-10 characters rolling on enchants.
I've had my Stormrage pants for 3 months, and a Deviate Growth Cap (arguably the best resto cap in the game) for about a month. I've been rolling on the Idol ever since I got my pants. In that time, I have seen approximately 20 Idols roll on by, without ever rolling high enough to get one for myself. I'd estimate half of the idols that have dropped in that 3 month span have gone to alts.
I've proposed a simple priority-based system. If you roll on an Idol during a run, and don't receive it, you are given a point. Those who have attained X amount of points, meaning they have attended 2X runs (i.e. if you have 10 points, you've probably been on 5 runs), can call "dibs" on the next Idol that drops. The Idol is given to the person who calls dibs (if more than one person calls dibs, it's given to the person with the highest point count ... if points are equal, they roll). Whoever receives the Idol has their point count reset to zero.
The problem I still see here is that alts who only raid ZG/AQ20/Onyxia will still potentially receive the Idol before a main who raids BWL, AQ40, and Naxx. But, with my inability to roll high (rolled 2,1,2,7 on the Idol, Panther Hide Sack, Idol, and Hakkar's Head respectfully, last night), I'd at least be able to get an enchant before TBC.
My question is why is the guild letting alts roll on it over mains? Never ever should an alt get an item such as this or an upgrade over a main, at least IMHO.
It sounds like you are implementing a bid DKP system for the idols.
Since I know that the "mains over alts" will never happen (most of the officers and raid leaders only run ZG on their alts), that's what I would like to see happen as a compromise.
The only things I want from ZG are:
1. Rep (7200/21000, shooting for Exalted within the next month)
2. Primal Hakkari Idol
Yet, I go week in and week out without ever rolling high enough for the Idol. If we have a sort of max-DKP system in place (ie, you spend all your "points" to buy the idol), at least I'd see one of the damn things, since I attend a good 80% of our ZG runs.
Your getting the short end of the stick and if your officers are so shortssighted as to give their alts ZG enchants over raiding mains...I suggest you find a different raiding guild becuase they aren't going to get to far with that mentality.
My guild is in Naxx and doesn't use DKP at all in any instance, what we do with ZG:
Loot is full free rolls to whoever wants an item..this includes blues and epics, within reason :) ....the only items we have priority set to are usually items off Jindo for healers and Hakkar with the trinket and some of the weapons because they are arugable the best for certain classes at certain slots.
Basically we officer loot.....and this applies to Idols as well..Idols are really one of the only items we fully control...
Requirements:
1) You have to have your doll with you.
2) You have to have Tier2 or equivalent to put it on.
3) IF you meet those 2 requirements your name goes into a pool to be discussed in Officer Chat. Of the people in the "hat" we decide 3 people that will be allowed to roll for it. We take things into consideration like time in the guild, dedication, attendance to progression content. Things like that.
We then say in vent ok these people can roll and they roll and we loot the item.
I can't believe officers would enchant their alts before other mains...that is just plain ludicrous.
Since I know that the "mains over alts" will never happen (most of the officers and raid leaders only run ZG on their alts), that's what I would like to see happen as a compromise.
With guild leadership like this, I would /gquit right there and find another guild. One of these days, the Grand Hat of Uberness is going to drop, you'll have the DKP for it and the leader will decide that it would be better going to his character/alt. You shouldn't hang around in a guild that is only going to let you have scraps from their alts.
With guild leadership like this, I would /gquit right there and find another guild. One of these days, the Grand Hat of Uberness is going to drop, you'll have the DKP for it and the leader will decide that it would be better going to his character/alt. You shouldn't hang around in a guild that is only going to let you have scraps from their alts.
We use a zero-sum DKP system in the 40-mans. The only exception to the rule currently in place for our 40-man DKP system is that we're trying to outfit our two MT's in some Dreadnaught before allowing others to bid on those pieces (and this was agreed upon by the vast majority of our raiders).
The only issue is that there is no system in place for 20-mans. We were deep into MC when ZG was released and had MC on farm and were progressing through BWL by the time AQ20 was released, so instituting a DKP system for 20-mans was kind of pointless.
One of our officers decided to start running one 20-man a week, which eventually ballooned to 4 a week, all under his loot system. When 1.10 was released, and the ZG enchant system changed, no new policy was made for the Idols ... they were just melded into the system already in place.
Now, the runs are mainly run at the discretion of the raid leader. If the raid leader feels that an item should go to a main rather than an alt, that's their prerogative. However, most of our raid leaders follow the "if you're on the run, are of Friendly rep, have a doll, and have a Tier 2 epic to enchant" ruleset, even though it's in their right as a raid leader to add the "mains over alts" rule.
Edit: I should also say that I'm not considered one of our progression raiders; I'm not on the 48-person progression short-list (we have a 40-man roster for progression content, to push through progression as fast as possible, with one of each class as priority standbys).
Though I regularly attend progression raids, since we have 2 Druids overseas who cannot reliably make weekday raids, I'm not considered one of the "elite 48" (my words).
Yes, the applications for the roster were reopened last month, I applied, and I didn't get rostered ... so I'm a tad bitter. But, I have a lot of friends in this alliance who are exceptionally loyal to it, so I refuse to leave. (Until TBC ;) )
It appears that your ZG runs are hardly 'official' guild runs in that case, and more of an in-guild pickup or casual run. Thus guild need shouldnt and apparently doesnt take priority, so anyone bringing a toon to the raid has an equal part in getting said idols to drop.
Therefore, the system is working as intended, and you need to find yourself new dice ;) Tier2 will be replaced midway thru BC anyway, which means the enchant will be lost as well. Once 70, Things like ZG should be easy enough for 12 or less folks to get thru, and if idols are still worth it then, just have to find some friends.
That said, after months of waiting, I took my idol and enchanted my tier1 legs last week. Knowing ill be using my tier1 set exclusively until 66+ given the fact that there simply isnt enough time to fill out a DS set before TBC, I felt the several months use was worth the dkp spent.
Tier2 will be replaced midway thru BC anyway, which means the enchant will be lost as well. Once 70, Things like ZG should be easy enough for 12 or less folks to get thru, and if idols are still worth it then, just have to find some friends.
We can already 10-man Venoxis and Mandokir. I've been on 10-man runs to these two bosses more than once...
We give people with highest reputation priority. So those that did ZG a lot will generally have more reputation and get first dibs on the idols.
Mains > alts.
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