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We thoroughly hijacked the other thread, I thought it would be best to start a new one.
I'm still working on specific numbers. I'd like to try to be as specific as possible. In the meantime, I do have a rough comparison I'd like to show.
For the moment I'm setting aside the utility of the Shadowpriest (Vampiric Embrace, Vampiric Touch, backup healer.) This is a pure DPS comparison.
This is a real example of my situation. I have a 60 warlock and a 60 priest, both are equally geared. I raided with my warlock for a long time, then I asked my guild if I could trade out and let my shadowpriest take my warlock's place. There are 2 other warlocks in our core group of raiders.
So, if your choice is either 3 warlocks, or 2 warlocks and a priest in shadowform - which gives more DPS if all are equally geared?
I think an average amount of +damage gear for a raider is +400, so that's what I used in my example. The most common warlock raiding spec is SM/Ruin, that's what I use in my example as well.
Assuming an SM/Ruin warlock with +400 damage uses all dots and spams shadowbolt, they put out 571 DPS. I found this using a spreadsheet created by someone named Peanalope on the Warsong server.
Assuming the most common Shadow talents, a Shadowpriest with +400 damage and CoS on his target is worth 464 DPS. (Added 5% DPS b/c we know that shadowpriest damage is increased 5% in the BC due to the Misery talent.)
So if you have 3 warlocks:
571
571
571
_____
=1713 DPS
In the BC, a Shadowpriest will boost warlock damage by 20%. This raises the warlock DPS from 571 to 685.
So 2 warlocks and 1 Shadowpriest gives:
685
685
464
____
1834.
You get more DPS with the Shadowpriest.
Keep in mind, this is an EXTREMELY conservative estimate in terms of Shadowpriest DPS. I calculated the Shadowpriest DPS leaving out several items which will improve it, such as Mindblast, Vampiric Touch, Shadow Word: Death, and the increase in bonus from +damage gear that Shadowpriests will receive in the BC.
Not saying there isn't room... but you can't factor in a BC talent for the priest when you don't know how much DPS locks will pump out in BC as compared to Shadow Priests.
Not saying there isn't room... but you can't factor in a BC talent for the priest when you don't know how much DPS locks will pump out in BC as compared to Shadow Priests.
even if you take out the extra 5%, you are still at a bit more dps with the SP.
Plus you get a dps toon that can heal himself and others (either thru VE or dropping out of shadow in emergency), has pw:s, can slow runners, and in extreme cases can even step in and tank :)
... can you say mana battery?
They have had to step up and take a spot in raids and prove they deserve to be there. Once BC comes out their place will be obvious.
yeah shadow weaving is great for locks. (believe me as a lock I personally love having a shadow priest in the raid) and are definitely great to have in fights like Rags where the goal is to burn him down as fast as possible and not having to worry about aggro.
But considering the shadow priests big weakness (mana) how does their DPS fare over prolonged fights? I mean mages have bigger mana pools and offten have clear casting... Locks can tap and get mana back.
Are your numbers based on optimal dps for when you are in full on burst mode or do they take into account those fights that by design take 10 minutes or longer? How much sustained DPS will a shadow priest put out in comparison with a lock?
Are your numbers based on optimal dps for when you are in full on burst mode or do they take into account those fights that by design take 10 minutes or longer? How much sustained DPS will a shadow priest put out in comparison with a lock?
Well, basically just based on my experience. I've done Onyxia, Hakkar, Kurinaxx, and Rajaxx in Shadowform and had enough mana for the whole fight. But I know longevity is a weakness and I've built my shadow damage set to lean toward intellect and some mp5. Plus I use mageblood / brilliant mana oil / nightfin soup. Which is ironic b/c I don't generally use them when I heal.
I can only guess at how long a Shadowpriest could last in a boss fight in the BC, but there are two BC talents that will improve efficiency. One talent reduces the mana cost of mindflay and mindblast by 15%. The other talent of course is Vampiric Touch. That and I always have meditation in my shadow raiding builds - and hopefully by 70 I'll have 3 piece trans or something better.
Last edited by Steamboat; 10-11-2006 at 04:16 PM..
Does this assume that the 20% debuff misery and shadowweave is applied 100% of the time?
If the shadowpriest is doing a good job, misery and shadoweaving x5 will be on the target for the entire boss fight, minus the first 9 seconds. (1.5 seconds for vampiric touch, 6 seconds to spam lvl 1 sw:p 4 times, 1.5 seconds to put up the highest lvl of sw:p)
So yeah the debuff will probably be fully applied before they even call for DPS.
Last edited by Steamboat; 10-11-2006 at 11:08 PM..
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